Grapefruit Woes

...Barrel O' Rum by The Atomic Grog.

I agree, it is very good. Link to the recipe along with HH's narrative: http://www.slammie.com/atomicgrog/blog/2011/06/27/the-rum-barrel-the-rodney-dangerfield-of-tropical-drinks/#recipe

Also for anyone that has not been there, HH has done a fantastic job with all of the Mai Kai recipes, and continually updates them. He really deserves a huge thank you (thank you!) for his work: http://www.slammie.com/atomicgrog/blog/mai-kai-cocktail-guide/

Being in the same situation having a whole lot of grapefruit all at once from my own tree, I came up with a bit of a deconstructed Rum Barrel, easy, fast, and refreshing:

2 oz. white grapefruit juice
1/2 oz. passion fruit syrup
2 dashes Angostura bitters
1 oz. white Puerto Rican (I have been using Flor de Cana)
1 oz. dark Jamaican rum (I used Hamilton Jamaican Black Pot Still)

Combine in shaker with ice, shake and pour into rocks glass, garnish with fresh mint.

Loki, Seems that you like to tweak/experiment with recipes. Me too. I added a couple of dashes of Jalepeno syrup to Hurc’s recipe. My syrup came out very pale in color compared to the syrup in Hurc’s syrup that he posted yesterday (“What are you drinking”) I was happy with the taste of my “Hot’ Barrel o’ Rum. Ditto everything you said about Jim Hayward.
Cheers

I made the Barrel O' Rum tonight coincidentally. Followed Hayward's recipe as closely as possible. Used SelvaRey and Coruba and fresh Oro Blanco white grapefruit from a farmer's market. I also used some of the little Mexican key limes. Delicious! I need to find some fresh passionfruit though since I used the last of my syrup.

On 2016-02-27 22:46, wupput wrote:
I made the Barrel O' Rum tonight coincidentally. Followed Hayward's recipe as closely as possible. Used SelvaRey and Coruba and fresh Oro Blanco white grapefruit from a farmer's market. I also used some of the little Mexican key limes. Delicious! I need to find some fresh passionfruit though since I used the last of my syrup.

I really like this drink. I have a key lime tree and find em too strong and tangy for my taste. I prefer Persian limes. Check out the thread on passion fruit syrup. It’s super easy to make.
Cheers

I think I contributed to that thread because I normally buy passionfruit fresh and make syrup but I'm fresh out! Interesting about the key limes. These ones were not any more sour than the Persian ones. They didn't have that strong key lime flavor. I wonder if there's more than one variety of small limes? The guy I bought them from at the Fullerton farmer's market described them as Mexican limes, not key, even though they're tiny. By the way that guy has the best avocados around. Cheers! Funny we made the same drink on the same night.

On 2016-02-27 23:13, wupput wrote:
I think I contributed to that thread because I normally buy passionfruit fresh and make syrup but I'm fresh out! Interesting about the key limes. These ones were not any more sour than the Persian ones. They didn't have that strong key lime flavor. I wonder if there's more than one variety of small limes? The guy I bought them from at the Fullerton farmer's market described them as Mexican limes, not key, even though they're tiny. By the way that guy has the best avocados around. Cheers! Funny we made the same drink on the same night.

\
Where’s dat Farmers Market at?
Mahalo

It's Wed, 9-1 or so, downtown Fullerton on Valencia by the DMV. The avocado guy is the man!

This Hemingway is fantastic.. Tastes great and you feel it too..

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/hemingway-daiquiri-recipe.html

On 2016-02-28 01:17, wupput wrote:
It's Wed, 9-1 or so, downtown Fullerton on Valencia by the DMV. The avocado guy is the man!

I intend to check it out weds 3/7
Mahalo

On 2016-03-07 16:02, cvcgolf wrote:
This Hemingway is fantastic.. Tastes great and you feel it too..

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/hemingway-daiquiri-recipe.html

Excellent drink but certainly not a daiquiri.
Try this one, La Floridita in Havana claims they make them like this;

1 teaspoon sugar
1/4 ounce lime juice
1 1/2 ounce light rum
5 drops “marrasquino”
4 ounces crushed ice
Blend until smooth and serve.
They used Havana Club3 year old. I use Luxardo Maraschino liquor.
I also prefer mine shaken with ice cubes and poured into a glass unstrained
Cheers

[ Edited by: nui 'umi 'umi 2016-03-08 11:30 ]

[ Edited by: nui 'umi 'umi 2016-03-08 11:31 ]

You can also try using a pineapple in place of a ruby red grapefruit.. You'll be surprised at how close the pineapple and white grapefruit is in taste..

Late to the party.

I can't find white grapefruit at all, let alone a not-from-concentrate grapefruit juice. Red and pink are everywhere.

For the drinks that call for white grapefruit juice, which is the lesser of two evils? Using white grapefruit juice from concentrate, or red grapefruit juice not-from-concentrate?

[ Edited by: OnyaBirri 2016-04-28 16:32 ]

On 2016-03-07 23:21, nui 'umi 'umi wrote:

On 2016-03-07 16:02, cvcgolf wrote:
This Hemingway is fantastic.. Tastes great and you feel it too..

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/hemingway-daiquiri-recipe.html

Excellent drink but certainly not a daiquiri.
Try this one, La Floridita in Havana claims they make them like this;

1 teaspoon sugar
1/4 ounce lime juice
1 1/2 ounce light rum
5 drops “marrasquino”
4 ounces crushed ice
Blend until smooth and serve.
They used Havana Club3 year old. I use Luxardo Maraschino liquor.
I also prefer mine shaken with ice cubes and poured into a glass unstrained
Cheers

Going to make this drink.
Get this I have everything to make this, but the ice!
Even have the Havana Club3 year.

On 2016-04-28 15:53, OnyaBirri wrote:
Late to the party.

I can't find white grapefruit at all, let alone a not-from-concentrate grapefruit juice. Red and pink are everywhere.

Yep, it seems ruby red is all the stores will carry these days. This week I finally found some white grapefruit in Hawaii for the first time, at work. I think it came from someone's yard.

On 2016-04-28 15:53, OnyaBirri wrote:
Late to the party.

I can't find white grapefruit at all, let alone a not-from-concentrate grapefruit juice. Red and pink are everywhere.

For the drinks that call for white grapefruit juice, which is the lesser of two evils? Using white grapefruit juice from concentrate, or red grapefruit juice not-from-concentrate?

[ Edited by: OnyaBirri 2016-04-28 16:32 ]

I've messed around with a lot of different grapefruit varieties this past year and have found that fresh squeezed is always best, regardless of color. It's been established that white grapefruit is a dying breed that's super hard to find in most places and the season for it is short so your quandary isn't uncommon. I know some people swear by the ocean Spray white in the plastic bottles but to me fresh squeezed, even if it's red, beats any bottled kind I've tried, even if it's not from concentrate. But everyone has their own personal taste preference so experiment and see what works for you!

I totally agree mikehooker. That bottled stuff is really bitter, and I'm not totally convinced that it is 100% white gf juice either. When fresh, I find the flavor profiles of white & pink gf to be similar enough. Just no reason not to go fresh squeezed for me, makes your drink 100x better.

I agree with Mike and happy buddha -- I've been avoiding the white vs. pink debate for a number of years. One of the problems I have with the store bought juices -- all of them -- is that they are generally pasteurized. The heat of pasteurization does impact the chemistry of the juice and alters the flavor and even the appearance of juices. I really dislike the taste of any pasteurized juices, they just don't compare to fresh squeezed. (I have not explored juices at local healthy food stores though -- except for the awesome POM mango pomegranate -- and they may have some really nice fresh juices in the healthy grocers like Whole Foods, etc.)

I get free pink grapefruit from my trees, and the fresh squeezed juice is superb. I think it is just a tad sweeter than white, but not by much, and from my comparisons I've not had any reason to make a big deal about it. However -- big thing to note here -- is that my palate tends to prefer slightly more sweetened drinks than most. This is also why I haven't bothered to go out and buy a white grapefruit tree, although I'm not sure I've seen them for sale in the local nurseries.

I do freeze leftover juice in 1 oz sticks, so even when the fruit isn't in season, I have no need to buy in the store for those spur-of-the-moment cocktail cravings. For special events I do squeeze fresh fruit to ensure there are no quality issues, as fresh is always preferable to frozen juice. Frozen juice is a great convenience, but fresh is always preferred if you have the option available, or the time to run out and buy.

Thanks all! I guess I will try some fresh squeezed red/pink and see how it goes. I agree that the flavor profiles are very similar. Regarding the sweetness factor, I can always back off a tad on the sweetener. Thanks again!

It you can find it, you should try the juices from Natalie's. They are so good that my craft cocktail company, The Straw Hat Barmen used them instead of fresh-squeezed. I have done multiple taste tests behind the bar and they are just as good as fresh squeezed. They even have a lime juice, which may be harder to get, but is a real God-send for us tiki folks. No more lime-ageddon worries and having to figure out how many limes you need to buy to get 80 oz!

On 2016-04-29 04:50, OnyaBirri wrote:
I agree that the flavor profiles are very similar. Regarding the sweetness factor, I can always back off a tad on the sweetener. Thanks again!

Exactly what I do - adjust the sweet elements of the drink if needed.

Tikihardbop's suggestion to use Natalie's juices is a good one. His bartending team have the experience to have made good comparisons.

I also agree. I often use fresh squeezed pink grapefruit juice in many, if not all, tiki drink recipes. We just seem to have them readily available so often that it is hard to not sub them out for white juice, not to mention the freshness factor. They look/smell/taste great fresh no matter what the color is inside.

Luna, it's nice to see pink grapefruit juice users speaking out more openly. I have, in the past, experienced a bit of scorn and disdain from other tiki cocktailians when I shared my thoughts. One person dedicated an entire podcast to nicely reviewing and discussing the issue before concluding that it was essential to always favor the white grapefruit. It was a very informative podcast, there was no bad juju therein whatsoever, but it did lead me to question what I was personally thinking. In the end, luna, I also continued using pink grapefruit because of how readily available it is. Some still insist in their recipes that you must use white juice instead of pink, and I respect that but find it very hard to comply.

Hey, it's all good! :)

Ace, I do like to have white on hand and I buy the Ocean Spray stuff when I can find it. I understand the arguements against using pink and I am a recipe purist so I do try my best to have the white on hand.

There is a definate difference between the white and the pink. I think that tiki drink recipes usually use such a small amount of grapefruit, whether it is Don's Mix or 1/2 oz in a drink, that the flavor difference is small enough that most* people won't notice it. Some of us here may notice the difference, but fresh versus pasturized, we might still think fresh tastes better.

I never did sub pink for white until recently. Seems like my family and friends were always buying bags of pink from the farmers markets for like $3 for a dozen huge, juicy grapefruits. They wouldn't be able to finish them, and I hate having stuff go to waste so I started juicing and subbing. The fresh vs bottled is really where it makes a big difference for me.

edited a spelling error...

[ Edited by: lunavideogames 2016-04-29 13:53 ]

On 2016-04-29 09:25, TikiHardBop wrote:
It you can find it, you should try the juices from Natalie's.

Thanks! I just made an Ancient Mariner with Natalie's fresh pink grapefruit juice, and it is killer! I had been making these with Ocean Spray white, and this drink with Natalie's is so much better. Pink is IMO very close to white in flavor, It is the red that is really different. Thanks again for the heads up!

Let the Natalie's folks know! They have been slow with the concept of promoting their product for use in cocktails.

Let the Natalie's folks know! They have been slow with the concept of promoting their product for use in cocktails.

On 2016-04-29 13:51, lunavideogames wrote:
Ace, I do like to have white on hand and I buy the Ocean Spray stuff when I can find it. I understand the arguements against using pink and I am a recipe purist so I do try my best to have the white on hand.

There is a definate difference between the white and the pink. I think that tiki drink recipes usually use such a small amount of grapefruit, whether it is Don's Mix or 1/2 oz in a drink, that the flavor difference is small enough that most* people won't notice it. Some of us here may notice the difference, but fresh versus pasturized, we might still think fresh tastes better.

I never did sub pink for white until recently. Seems like my family and friends were always buying bags of pink from the farmers markets for like $3 for a dozen huge, juicy grapefruits. They wouldn't be able to finish them, and I hate having stuff go to waste so I started juicing and subbing. The fresh vs bottled is really where it makes a big difference for me.

I'm a recipe purist as well, and there is a difference between white and pink, but I gave up on the pink versus white debate exactly because many recipes use a small amount of grapefruit juice. It came down to the reality that my super-careful measurements from jigger-to-jigger always vary by a few drops, and my choice of sugar syrups, bitters, rum brands, etc. also were variables, that the whole white-versus-pink thing became less relevant. But I still struggle with the fact that I'm a drink purist when trying new cocktails -- it is important to at least try to duplicate what the recipe wants to put forward. I have a very hard time with store-bought pasteurized juices - they never look "real" to me like fresh squeezed, it's like they've added stuff to make the juices very opaque. Ugh...

Having said all that, I've been picking up that the minor variations in drinks are hard to avoid, and that bartenders and drink creators tend not to let that get in the way too much, and they just accept it. (Please don't shoot me for saying that - I'm still observing this, so am not 100% committed to that statement.) I think this leads to a much more relaxed and enjoyable experience for the bartender while still not being careless or reckless like you find at many "pop" or sports bars where they think little or nothing of substituting ingredients and quickly free-pouring.

This grapefruit white-versus-pink thing is one of the few (or only) compromises I make. My attention to detail and authenticity has driven me to the point that I have now come to own about 95% of the ingredients listed in the Total Tiki app. I checked that over the weekend, yikes... I could have bought a small car with the money I've spent on building my bar. I have no regrets.

Made that drink Ace.
It was ok.
Can't believe that I bought an eye dropper to make a drink.

And on the grapefruit juice we used to get this white grapefruit juice from Bluebird.
It was not good, BUT it came in small can and this was good because we almost never sold it and in a small can it never went bad.

Sooo you need to remember that maybe on some of these drinks they did not go what is THE best thing we can put in this drink, it may have been more of a hey we got this and it's not bad.

While the white may be better than the red or pink who knows.
Could be the best juice for tiki drink is a crappy one like the stuff we used to get.
We got this juice because it was the only one that came in the small 5 ounce can, lots of bars used to use it too.

But when talking to some of the people who put in these tiki bars of old they were a lot less careful and exacting than some here on TC.

And heck what these days is the same as it was back then?
We had to change some of our recipes because the FLOUR was not the same as it was when we first started making pancakes.

Take margarine the have changed it so much some brands can't call it margarine anymore.
So now call it a spread.

"Since the fat content is not regulated in spreads, many brands will substitute water for oil. In some brands, they have increased the percentage of water up to 40%. That’s almost half water!"

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bluebird-100-grapefruit-juice-24-5-5-oz-cans/161272.ip

Good points, Skip. I have thought a little bit about how high quality some of today's stuff is, you're on to something that similar quality stuff wasn't available in the first heyday of tiki. So today we're likely drinking things which exceed what Vic and Don enjoyed. Neat thought.

You're right about small cans too -- I make Painkillers for my better half once in a while, and the small cans of pineapple juice are very convenient cuz they're always ready without refrigeration.

"I have thought a little bit about how high quality some of today's stuff is"
It can go the other way too.
Like grenadine that used to be made from Pomegranate but is now cherry juice mostly.

Guess the best you can do is try to make a similar drink that tastes good.

The other way... Yikes!

I think you hit the nail on the head with Grenadine as a good example. I just listened to an episode of the 5 Minutes Of Rum podcast this morning and Kevin mentioned that grenadine is now best made at home. The store-bought stuff today is just not true to the real pomegranate origins of the syrup.

Home made grenadine is awesome!
I make sorbet with it and put it in strawberry rhubarb pie, mostly cooking.

But think of anything with sugar in it from the past like say Coke.
Don't know what they are using for sugar but it's not sugar as it once was.

Now is that good or bad, who knows.
But beating your head on a wall to make a drink just as it was in the past is almost impossible.

It's ok to look for the mixer that works best for your needs but just saying if you are going to be true it's not always going to be just like what they used in the past.

Here it is....
"Nearly 30 years ago, Coca-Cola switched over from sugar to high-fructose corn syrup to sweeten America’s beloved carbonated soft drink. With corn subsidized by the government, its sugary syrup became a more affordable option for the beverage company"

"Actually, the sweetener used in Coca-Cola varies from country to country based on what ingredient is most affordable for the bottling plant’s location. And in many countries, Mexico included, Coke is still made with real sugar'

And you can bet the ingredients in many things has done the same thing.
Heck the Ice may be the only thing you can make in the same way they did back then.

Wait, When did they start adding fluoride to the water?

Say what now? I thought the season for white grapefruit was late winter? The only white gf I've seen in TX were from FL, not Cali. Curious to see how the flavors compare.

This comes at a perfect time as just the other night I finished off the 24 ounces I squoze and froze from last seasons harvest.

Whole Foods in Austin has been keeping two breeds of white grapefruit in stock. I had tried the non organic whites first and they were incredible. Then I gave the oro blancos a shot. I don't like them quite as much but still happy to have them around for Navy Grogs and Floridita Daiquiris.

Tonight I might try a Reverb Crash. What other drinks would ya'll recommend making besides Zombies and the others I've mention while I have this abundance of white grapefruit at my disposal?

EDIT: Just remembered to add rum barrels and big bamboos to the list.

[ Edited by: mikehooker 2016-08-14 15:04 ]

Mike, Dis is one of my fav’s.
It’s a BIg tasty drink
Cheers

OFFICIAL MAI-KAI RECIPE
The Mai-Kai Barrel O’ Rum
(From Beachbum Berry’s Taboo Table)

Barrel O' Rum by The Atomic Grog, June 2011.(Photo by Hurricane Hayward)
2 ounces white Puerto Rican
or Virgin Islands rum
*
2 ounces dark Jamaican rum
*
2 ounces fresh lime juice
*
2 ounces orange juice
*
2 ounces white grapefruit juice
*
2 ounces passion fruit syrup
*
1 teaspoon honey mix 
(equal parts honey, water. Use your stovetop.
Splash of club soda
*
6 dashes Angostura bitters
Shake with plenty of ice cubes in a cocktail shaker. Pour into a ceramic barrel mug -ladies get a cherry

Oops, just saw your edit

[ Edited by: nui 'umi 'umi 2016-08-14 22:49 ]

[ Edited by: nui 'umi 'umi 2016-08-14 22:51 ]

Yep, that's my go to Rum Barrel recipe. When I don't have white grapefruit I either use pineapple juice in it's place or cut back to 1 oz of fresh squeezed pink or red or it completely takes over. I'm sure several of these are in my not so distant future.

By chance last week at my local Safeway I found the store brand's white grapefruit juice, from concentrate in the plastic bottle. Not my first (or even third) choice, but I was shocked to see it on any shelf in my little Colorado mountain town that l snatched it up anyway. Yesterday I made 1934 Zombies for the first time and they were a big hit with everyone I served. The Hemingway is pretty tasty, too. For the rest of this week, I plan on working through a bunch of other recipes calling for grapefruit, in order to make a dent in the bottle before the quality degrades too much.

has anyone ever used pomelos in place of grapefruit? my local trader joe's has some and i was thinking of trying but for just having stumbled across some whites at the farmer's market. as the grapefruit is a cross between the pomelo and the sweet orange (which is itself a cross between the pomelo and the mandarin) i'm thinking it could be a good thing. also, wikipedia says i can rightfully call it pampelmousse.

tj's also has some florida grapefruit in a bag, but they look like they're pinks. anyone have any luck finding whites in a california tj?

curiosity got the best of me and i picked up some pomelos. if you're looking for white grapefruit, don't compromise. but if life gives you pomelos, as it did for me, you can make this:

pampelmousse punch

2 oz pomelo
1 oz lemon
1 oz orange
1 oz Coruba dark Jamaican
1 oz Ron de Barrelito 3 star
1 oz passion fruit syrup (small hand foods)
1/4 oz raspberry gum syrup (small hand foods)

[ Edited by: oroborean 2016-11-03 20:31 ]

On 2016-11-02 17:30, oroborean wrote:
has anyone ever used pomelos in place of grapefruit?

I did once. And it did not work. I'm in CA right now and none of the tiki bars I've been to have had white grapefruit. It's damn pitiful this fruit isn't available year round to the masses.

Just back from Maui and still no white grapefruit that I can find in the Bay Area, though I never really had much luck at TJs. My best place has been the Ranch 99 Asian market but they are still not available there either. Gonna try Whole Foods and a farmer's market today.

I planted this dwarf white grapefruit tree about 4 years ago.

too Lazy to pick up the ones that drop.

There's always some grapefruit available if I need to make a cocktail that calls for white grapefruit.

I found some white grapefruit at Whole Foods yesterday. Any tips on freezing for later use? I guess it is simply juicing, freeze in ice cube tray and then store in a ziploc freezer bag?

Thanks,

Rick

On 2016-12-07 08:40, rbeyer68 wrote:
Any tips on freezing for later use?

Rick, that's great news. Do a search here for freezing juices and you'll see a number of us have traded stories and experiences. I'm a squeeze-and-freeze guy myself and have great success with it. Cheers!

Good deal. I will look for that information.

Rick

Cocktail grapefruit are starting to show up at 99 Ranch markets, if you're lucky enough to have one near you.

We've got Oro Blanco's at Whole Foods in Austin right now. I'm actually still trying to work my way through my stash of frozen juice from last August's short lived harvest. I think I froze about 24 ounces. The juice is still good. And many Navy Grogs are in my future.

Side note: I don't like the California oro's as much as the Florida white's that one of my upscale grocers carried last year. I hope those make their way here.

On 2016-12-07 08:40, rbeyer68 wrote:
I found some white grapefruit at Whole Foods yesterday. Any tips on freezing for later use? I guess it is simply juicing, freeze in ice cube tray and then store in a ziploc freezer bag?

Thanks,

Rick

That's exactly what I do. Make sure to strain the juice before pouring into the trays to get rid of any pulp. I found some great silicone trays at my grocer for a few bucks each (I may have posted them in this thread a while back) that hold exactly 1/2 oz per cube and they pop out cleanly with ease. You should probably avoid the plastic ones or ones that are super cheap. I store the cubes in freezer bags and pull out as many cubes as I will need for the drinks I'm planning to make maybe an hour or so in advance to allow it to thaw. Navy Grogs all year long. It's a great thing.