what is the update on bahooka's rufus??? the dreaded question continues?

Christiki...

Not certain...but This thread is serving the intended purpose. It's making the muck raise to to the top. All info this far is sourced to the claims of Mr. zhu, the current holder of the Bahooka property, including Rufus. I personally have ZERO trust in what he claims, based on his history and shady character. So we can only hope that maybe, more reliable info surfaces. There was a "moral obligation" for the former Bahooka owners to see that Rufus was properly cared for after the place was sold. They were lied to by an aggressive buyer who assured his safety and care and sold to this owner, Mr. zhu, who "passed" on the opportunity to have his fish taken off his hands and put in a loving home, (though we raised money to cover the expenses to safely do this) after he threatened a two week time frame before he would take care of the "burden" his way. You see how it all unfolded. Bad energy breeds more bad energy! I will suggest this thread stay open for the potential that this saga has a really good surprise ending! Lol. I am up painfully late prepping for a creative presentation to Sea World, ironically...lol unrelated to this topic. I just popped in for a moment here. Night all

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-04-28 10:49 ]

Hi all -- So going off of Thor's "weekend plan" I just got off the phone with Frank Syong the gentleman who wrote the article saying that the new owners were going to keep Rufus on.

After speaking to me Frank got in touch with the new owner and then called me back. Frank was able to speak with the new owner in Chinese and said that Rufus (and many other fish from the restaurant) are currently at his house alive and well. Frank was very concerned and I pressed him to make sure he believed the new owner. Frank said that he really thinks he's telling the truth and that speaking to him in his native tongue was a big help.

I have to say that I am still suspicious, since this guys behavior has been sketchy from the beginning, but Frank seems like a very nice guy who was genuinely concerned. I will say that if Fez or anyone else had this info and could have shared it here, then I don't see why they didn't, but as someone else said no one is obligated to do anything in this situation. It's all about what we're willing to do.

Frank asked me to keep him appraised of any new developments, as he is ready and willing to write a follow up article if it turns out that Rufus actually met an untimely end.

O.K. I think we do need some sort of proof. A suggestion is for this to be a story that IS continued by the press... They could take pics of Rufus ad the other fish and it be part of the article that follows the closure of this issue. We really need this part, since "word alone" is just not going to cut it here. I think the article follow up would be a GREAT way to raise our faith in Mr. Zhu as well. Everyone wins! ~~

On 2014-04-28 11:41, THOR's wrote:
O.K. I think we do need some sort of proof. A suggestion is for this to be a story that IS continued by the press... They could take pics of Rufus ad the other fish and it be part of the article that follows the closure of this issue. We really need this part, since "word alone" is just not going to cut it here. I think the article follow up would be a GREAT way to raise our faith in Mr. Zhu as well. Everyone wins! ~~

Tom I don't disagree with you and I asked Frank just that. For him it's not a story he can get printed until there's confirmation of something terrible or until Rufus (and the other fish) are in the new restaurant. An interim (the fish are still safe) piece, while important to us didn't seem like a possibility. Like I said he really believed Zhu on the phone. This would be a perfect opportunity for someone who has a personal relationship with Zhu and a connection to this community to be able to help out, since they may be able to take such a photo.

My GF wrote to Chris Nichols who was the guy she originally contacted months ago at LA magazine and this was his reply:

"I've been trying to contact Jorge for two weeks with no luck. A friend who donated to Hidden LA's fundraiser has asked those people for an update and were told the owners were not speaking to the press. I'm still hunting. Chris"

It seems like Franks ability to speak Chinese may be the only reason Zhu spoke with him.

O.K. Interesting stuff! I think Jorge was in Mexico for a while I heard. Let's keep working on this though!! Thanks so much Myles! This is the type of open communication we have needed for some time!

Thanks SoCal Savage! For getting the ball rolling on some real fact gathering efforts
Now I for one would be so happy to find out that what we know to date is wrong & Rufus is alive

But I'm just not the type to hold on to false hope & after so much subterfuge, I remain extremely skeptical
Of any remarks from Mr. Zhu or sources close to him, a simple press photo would be so easy to provide
And would be in Mr. Zhu's best interest as I am sure he would not want any bad press.

But if true! This would mean the information we now have was either fed to those sources or they
Are outright lying? But for what possible purpose?

Jorge has been the principal caretaker of Rufus, but he is now incommunicado & reportedly in Mexico
For some time now, which means he is not taking care of Rufus at this time or possibly anymore?

All of this to say the very least, raises eyebrows.

"A friend who donated to Hidden LA's fundraiser has asked those people for an update and were told the owners were not speaking to the press. I'm still hunting. Chris"

I don't totally understand this.
The new owner would have no knowledge of the fund raiser funds, other than he's not getting them.
Are the people from Hidden LA talking to anyone?
When is Hidden LA going to give an update of their own?
Does Hidden LA have in mind a date that says, we are done, thanks for helping here's your refund?

Where's Kari/Lynn at? they were on this, now nothing.
Jobs not done really.

For now it's a wait and see on Rufus and we are at the mercy of the new owner and
what he wants us to know/see.

Skip, I just saw & spoke with Kari on Saturday, she knows exactly what we all know
Mr. Zhu will not communicate with any of us & this so far is a dead end
Hopefully the press can find out the truth about all of this.

I am sure the Hidden L.A. Folks are just waiting for the facts or confirmation
of what we have heard so far, I am sure they will return the funds if they are not needed.

They are in the same boat as the rest of us, no solid proof of anything really.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-04-28 15:10 ]

Worse case scenario ATP, what you heard is true and Zhu is lying and he's hoping this will all go away by the time he opens. If Zhu lied to Frank, the LA times reporter, then the truth will come out when he opens.

Im not sure how to get proof of Rufus being alive before then (barring a spy mission into Zhu's house), but if the restaurant opens and there's no Rufus, I do believe Frank (LA Times) would revisit the story. It may be a question of just staying on top of this until then, unless some other media outlet,that I haven't contacted, wants to push it. Chris, the LA mag guy, said he's looking into things, but it doesn't seem like they're going to go down there right now. Maybe the folks at hidden LA have some deeper connects they can work? Their FB page reaches a lot of people and is basically a media outlet itself in this day and age.

Ok ATP thanks for clearing that up.
I did not expect Mr Zhu to let us know anything but did think that other TC folks would
keep us all posted on what they know, updates ect....

And as far as Rumors go if anybody hears something post it, We may come to find it's bogus
or it may come to be fact.
Don't think there is need to get pissed at each other as the fish is in Zhu's hands and we can
only wait really.
And it is his fish and he can do what he wants, just like Donald Sterling and live with the outcome.
When we were young we would say "Spaz down"

Zhu may be waiting to drum this up into a big story when he opens his restaurant.
Does anybody know of a date he is set to open his restaurant?
Or do we need MI6 clearance to know of the opening date?

I think all of us here wants the best for Rufus.

[i]On 2014-04-28 16:51, tikiskip wrote:

Does anybody know of a date he is set to open his restaurant?
Or do we need MI6 clearance to know of the opening date?

I think all of us here wants the best for Rufus.

Fez Moai previously stated the new opening date was forecast to be in August.

Thanks to all the folks helping out.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-04-29 00:46 ]

ATP,
I know you work with computers for a living,
but maybe its time to step away from the computer for a bit.
I knew I would regret clickng on this thread yesterday.
OOOOOOoooooooof!

Jeff(btd)

Yea so tired.....need sleep, ya big surf hippy :) :)

Man... is the is really the way this all is going to close ? Cus I feel like we really still have no real answers. Closure is something that will be a ways away...at this rate.

The folks at Esotouric.com have posted a video of a visit to the former Bahooka dated yesterday 5/5/14
Also an article asking the same questions we are about Rufus here:

http://esotouric.com/rufus

I believe the video features esotouric.com's Kim Cooper and Richard Schave
are you guys TC members? Thanks for the support & posting the story on your website!

ATP, thanks for posting the link to the video Richard and I shot yesterday. This forum was very helpful in trying to understand what was going on with Rufus when we happened by and saw that the doors were open and Bahooka space gutted. Of course we are happy to do what we can to get the word out about this confusing and troubling situation.

Since the video went live, Frank Shyong of the L.A. Times has tweeted "I spoke to owner Alan Zhu on the phone about a week ago.... Alan tells me that Rufus is in a pond at his house, and indeed, alive. What evidence is there that Alan is lying/Rufus has..."

I tweeted back asking that he try to see Rufus and confirm he's okay, and pointing out that pond temperatures are not appropriate for a tropical tank fish. No response to that, as yet. I hope he'll follow up with Alan Zhu, since he is the only reporter who has been able to communicate with him. (Parenthetically, over in the Tiki Oasis Facebook group, Lynn Garrett from Hidden L.A. is expressing her unhappiness with his coverage, and blaming it for the breakdown in communication surrounding the proposed Damon's transfer. Complicated situation all around...)

None of these stories jibe. I get the distinct impression the Mr. Zhu is full of the proverbial poop.

Many Thanks to you! for getting the message out & taking the time to add your own thoughts.

It was our member "SoCal Savage" who contacted Frank Shyong which precipitated the call to Alan Zhu
that he is referring to, but Frank did not seem to want to follow up the story any further after that phone call
no proof or photo?

If what you heard is true & Rufus is in a pond at "Zhu's" house, I just don't see how Rufus can survive that?
it is amazing how we can't get any verification, along with Zhu's complete noncooperation.

Hmmm, a pond. Probably decently large. Probably visible from the street. Might be visible from an adjacent yard. I had a dream last night -- tiki secret agents... Doing some address lookup somewhere... Going out day or night... With a secret hidden camera... Taking photos over a fence... Not "Greenpeace" but maybe "Marinepeace.""Rufus' Rescue Rangers." "Rufus' Wonton Warriors." Heh, just sayin...

Well it is an idea, Ace....Here is what's up with the other sites concerning Rufus

Rufus does have a website here, but it has not been updated since it went live on Feb. 17th 2014

http://rufusthefish.com/

Hidden L.A.'s last update was on Feb. 14th 2014: http://hiddenlosangeles.com/rufus/
Facebook updates here: https://www.facebook.com/HiddenLA

The Fundraising page has no current updates, here:
http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/help-rufus-the-fish-find-a-forever-home-/136424

Side note: take a look at these photos from "Pacific Ocean Park" mentioned by Hidden L.A.
http://boingboing.net/2014/05/05/pacificoceanpark.html#more-300952

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-05-06 20:54 ]

Interesting. Let me clarify one thing. The Rufus thread I posted months ago this one came BEFORE hidden LA got involved. It was what sparked more awareness and action, including Damon's being able to follow this story and act. Hidden LA , from what I understand, got the press into this, including showing up at Damon's to the surprise of the owners when they were negotiating with Mr. Zhu progressively to that point . I know they meant well though. Therefore, we need to look back on facts and not point fingers at any effort as "fault , but stay clear that the one that has created All the issues and resistance to getting Rufus a proper home has be Mr. zhu.
I am very happy that there are other social networks keeping this issue alive. I personally won't accept closure till I see clear pictures of Rufus alive and well. However. This throwing him in an outdoor pond concept is definitely not a restful thought in the mean time. We really need to follow through on this! People "letting it go" is exactly what Zhu wants... And I don't believe his story that is supposed to shut us up, frankly!

Damn right Thor!
and it was Tom (Thor) whom was doing the talking with Damon's during those negotiations.

I spoke with Lynn (of Hidden L.A., who organized the fundraiser) about two weeks ago. She has done a lot of fundraising and public awareness campaigns all over Los Angeles, with positive results. There was a good reason Otto von Stroheim suggested getting her involved. (They are old friends.) She did a great job of trying to help our local Tiki community get Rufus relocated. Through her organization she found professional aquatic movers who offered to donate moving services, tank builders who offered to help with the creation of a new tank at a reasonable price, and she communicated as well as she could with the Bahooka property owner and George (Rufus' longtime caretaker). She also created an excellent fundraiser which raised a couple thousand dollars. That money still sits in the fundraising account FOR NOW, because Lynn feels that IF there is ANY CHANCE AT ALL that Rufus might "resurface" in the next few months, and we still have any chance of buying him and moving him to Damon's, that money will be needed immediately, and there wouldn't be time to do another fundraiser. I'm going to talk to her next week to see how long she feels the money should be kept for this possibility. IF this is the end of the story as far as all of us seeing Rufus again (and I sure hope it isn't), Lynn will have to figure out how to refund everyone's contributions. As I said, she has never had a fundraiser/cause go south like this. New territory to maneuver, including the refund situation.

You guys are impressive.

On 2014-05-06 19:19, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Many Thanks to you! for getting the message out & taking the time to add your own thoughts.

It was our member "SoCal Savage" who contacted Frank Shyong which precipitated the call to Alan Zhu
that he is referring to, but Frank did not seem to want to follow up the story any further after that phone call
no proof or photo?

If what you heard is true & Rufus is in a pond at "Zhu's" house, I just don't see how Rufus can survive that?
it is amazing how we can't get any verification, along with Zhu's complete noncooperation.

I think it was early last week when I went back and forth with Frank. He took Zhu on his word (after speaking with him in his native Chinese). I personally am on the side of the skeptics here when it comes to Zhu's word on anything. It's good to hear that the hidden LA folks are staying on top of the situation and ready to use the donated funds. Even if they're exchanging negative tweats on the subject at least people are staying aware of the situation. It would be great to hear some inside information from someone who has direct dealings with Zhu, but that doesn't seem likely at this point. Other than keeping people aware on social media and bugging the local press I'm not sure what else can be done at this point... barring the proposed spy mission.

Since I just watched the new "24" yesterday, I totally want to do Jack Bauer stuff!
who has some "comms" we can use? I think I can get a hold of a few Serbian Mercenaries who owe me a favor or two
Is this the 007 stuff Fez was talking about?

Be careful, ATP. Among the stuff Jack Bauer does, from time to time, is get shot.

"The rum's the thing..."

[ Edited by: Limbo Lizard 2014-05-07 08:58 ]

On 2014-05-07 08:57, Limbo Lizard wrote:
Be careful, ATP. Among the stuff Jack Bauer does, from time to time, is get shot.

---

"The rum's the thing..."

[ Edited by: Limbo Lizard 2014-05-07 08:58 ]

LOL! :D

My latest thoughts on this can be liked to what they used to do in the "old days" in the South when a person was feared to have drown and was missing in the bottom of the Mississippi. They dropped some depth charges into the water and the explosions would eventually force the "body" to float to the surface. lol

I think we have tried a lot of kind requests for closure. It was fully understood that this concern wouldn't just "go away" until the outcome was a positive, confirmed event. We have nothing but a "story" as told from a guy who, for whatever the reasons, has NOT shown himself to be a man of truth or real concern for what this community feels.
So I think we need to continue reaching out to the press (that's the equivalent of the mortars in the river! lol). The "percussion" will cause SOME sort of truth (body) to float to the surface. My hope is that this pressures photo's and a welcome visit by the press to Rufus's "new happy home". If this is denied and we see nothing...I think it's safe to assume Rufus is no longer in existence...and THAT story needs to be told...as to how it ended. I have a few press resources I will reach out to for hopeful interest today. I encourage everyone to do the same, till we find a resource that will give this attention and real closure.

We have word from a journalist that claims Alan Zhu himself told him Rufus was in his koi pond (which backs up what Fez Moai was told). If so, that would almost certainly kill Rufus, who is a warm water tropical fish. Which means that Mr. Zhu is lying about Rufus being alive and well. I can only assume he's saying this because Rufus is, in fact, dead, and he wants a cover story. Either way, it means the end of Rufus. What a fiasco.

The other day I kinda tongue-in-cheek suggested that we should go peek over his fence and conduct our own survey of his pond and look for Rufus. But now I'm thinking that might be the quickest way to get more info. I don't know if that would be legal, so please consider this just a silly musing by some guy way out in Florida who, if he lived closer, might consider actually doing that.

If you're outside the fence and on public property, I can't imagine it here's anything they can do about it. Trying to find his address might be difficult, however. I did some snooping this morning and found two addresses associated with the ownership of the Bahooka property, but neither of them were homes with koi ponds.

you guys are turning this FISH into Jimmy Hoffa... lol...

So what? What's wrong with caring about something? I'm not suggesting we send a lynch mob after Mr. Zhu. I'm not even suggesting anyone else try to contact him (it's pretty clear he's not going to be forthright, and harassment isn't going to help anything). I'm suggesting that looking over a fence would put people's minds at ease.

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of people working to do a little good is what makes the world a better place.

We all can use some levity about now, which is why I made that "24" joke
but I do not actually suggest we do anything illegal like trespassing!

"But" if we can obtain an address for Mr. Zhu it is possible Google maps satellite photos
could give us an idea of the "Pond" he mentioned, but this won't help with confirmation of Rufus's well being.

End to the mystery of what happened to Rufus.

LOL!! I knew that was coming Ernie!!!! lol

GROG unemployed and a caveman's gotta eat.

Does a koi pond always imply a certain temperature that's fatal to pacu fish? I've seen koi ponds in Hawaii - is that considered tropical? Maybe that's some kind of sweet spot that's tropical-ish but still cold enough for a koi, while a pond in southern CA would be cold enough for a koi but not tropical enough for a pacu?

If you do a search on "pacu fish", oddly some of the first results are about pacu caught in open waters in New Jersey, Illinois, France, and even Denmark. I guess those kinds of stories might be outliers, and Rufus might not be as hardy. Is that the general concern here?

If there was some kind of proof that Rufus is alive in a koi pond, would that change anything? I guess one day later you don't know that he's STILL alive, right?

Sorry if these questions diverge from the trajectory of this thread - not trying to upset anybody.

-Randy

On 2014-05-07 14:07, aquarj wrote:
Does a koi pond always imply a certain temperature that's fatal to pacu fish? I've seen koi ponds in Hawaii - is that considered tropical? Maybe that's some kind of sweet spot that's tropical-ish but still cold enough for a koi, while a pond in southern CA would be cold enough for a koi but not tropical enough for a pacu?

If you do a search on "pacu fish", oddly some of the first results are about pacu caught in open waters in New Jersey, Illinois, France, and even Denmark. I guess those kinds of stories might be outliers, and Rufus might not be as hardy. Is that the general concern here?

If there was some kind of proof that Rufus is alive in a koi pond, would that change anything? I guess one day later you don't know that he's STILL alive, right?

Sorry if these questions diverge from the trajectory of this thread - not trying to upset anybody.

-Randy

I was wondering the same thing. When you do a search there seems to be several instances of Pacu's surviving just fine in a koi pond. There are even some YouTube videos.

But a Pacu is a freshwater fish, Randy.

Edit: Checked the story you mentioned and it was a young Pacu found in a lake
which was most likely released by someone whom had it as a pet
the same story mentioned Pacu can't survive cold temperatures and would not have survived the winter.

Here is an official reply to the story of the one caught in Denmark from National Geographic
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130813-pacu-piranha-testicle-biting-fish-invasive-species/

in both cases these were young Pacu's.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-05-07 14:32 ]

On 2014-05-07 12:35, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
We all can use some levity about now,

Yes, levity, that was my intent as well. I do hope the little guy is actually doing well.

Holy mackerel...

Here is what I know about ANY fish kept in captivity. I have had numerous salt and fresh water/tropical tanks over the past 30 yrs or so. Sized up to about 300 gallons.

One of the first things you learn…and it is an expensive lesson, is that fish transferred in captivity are very fragile. Changes in temperature, biological balances and disease carried by other fish are a BIG deal. It's really easy to kill a fish by tossing it into an environment it is not accustom to.

If this is a Koi pond outside, it would be fresh water. It would be high in algae and debris and temperature spikes much different than a more stable indoor tank. Most indoor freshwater tanks are also heated. The temp for tropicals is kept around 72-82 degrees. You won't hold those temps outside.

So the concern is simply that a fish kept in tropical tank conditions for over 30 years thrown into an outside Koi pond or the like, has got a high risk of not making it.

The greatest concern in all this is that ALL this pond story is a farce anyway. The fear is, as myself and others have stated, that Alan Zhu might have disposed of the fish and just fabricated this story as a cover up/ shut up ploy. Again, we need proof. Not this man's word.

Speaking of levity, this completely unrelated story (with photos) was on the Pacu news page as well
and proves reading can be sexy!

"NYC Book Club Goes Topless"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/05/topless-book-club-new-york-photos-nsfw_n_5267320.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-05-07 14:48 ]

My experience with pacus is limited to looking at Rufus through the glass, back when you could.

Yes, apparently pacus are freshwater, and apparently koi are too. And apparently, oddly, pacu have been caught in both fresh water and salt water. And apparently they have a cringe-worthy nickname. I guess the speculation in those other cases was also that they were formerly in a tank, like Rufus, and in fact tend to be released because they outgrow their tanks. Some strange stories, but I don't have any reason to discount any of them, other than (what I already said about) realizing those could be outliers that don't translate to Rufus, who is pretty senior.

Anyway, I guess that's why it seemed to me that proof that Rufus is living might not change anything anyway, for those people with the most active need for info. Like these news stories where the pacu is assumed to have a short life expectancy (if it hadn't been caught by a fisherman anyway), it sounds like the concern isn't just about whether Rufus is alive right now. Maybe the only thing that would placate the concerns would be more like a webcam, showing Rufus at any given time?

-Randy

I would settle for a photo taken by any reputable journalist or TC member
not connected to Mr. Zhu, but did you see that story about the Topless Book Club!

Not trespassing is what long lenses are for...