no bullsh*t

http://www.tribalmania.com/index.htm

the things available on this site are breath taking...treasure!!! worth every friggin red nickel you'd pay for one of these amazing doorways to the past...RAD!

Now THAT'S a bowl!

-Z

yeah that is a bowl! the things that turn me on are the war trophies ... those are truly amazing...if i had $2900 to drop on a human skull that was from a war hundreds of years ago between men armed with wood and rock i'd do it in a heartbeat!

Miles - I can't find the human skull one..... gimme a link?

D'oh! Never mind - here it is:
Human Skull

[ Edited by: Tangaroa on 2005-02-16 09:41 ]

http://www.tribalmania.com/DAYAKHALFSKULL.htm

that was the first one i found...not much to see there...only one pic...this is the one that blows me away...

http://www.tribalmania.com/DAYAKSKULL.htm

there is a book on these things....it's $75 for sale on the same site...

http://www.tribalmania.com/WOODCARVERHEADHUNTERS.htm

but check this guy out...he is at the top of this page...he is SERIOUS about his rituals...

http://www.tribalmania.com/SHOWCASE.htm

Those are very cool!

A local gallery has some fantastic work done by artists in New Guinea. The prices are much more reasonable, and they're in Canadian dollars!

Alcheringa Gallery

[ Edited by: Tikiwahine on 2005-02-16 11:02 ]

The Tribalmania pieces are much older than the items from the Canadian gallery. The Canadian gallery is showing contemporary items.

That is true magicman, they support contemporary artists, and even give info about them on the site. Still some great work though!

the fact that this stuff is so old makes it more significant to me than any item a contemporary artist could possibly fashion...these items are artifacts and they all have REAL history...that makes them JAM packed with energy which is inspiring to us all...how can there NOT be tiki art with such beautiful inspiration...and what a bunch of great pix on the site...awesome! i want that skull so badly that my wife got me a model skull for my birthday a couple days ago...not exactly the same but hell...i don't think my little girl would appreciate me tossing $3G out on a war trophy instead of saving for her college fund or using it to pay for food clothing and our mortgage...but MAN he is cool...

I too prefer the older pieces, items that come straight from the traditional cultures. To me, their is a vast difference between the early pieces and the contemporary interpretations. Of course, the early pieces command a large premium in price. But it's great that both are available so folks have the option to choose what they prefer.

[ Edited by: magicman on 2005-02-16 20:44 ]

http://www.galerie-meyer-oceanic-art.com/obmel026.htm

in Paris

and

http://www.oceanicartsaustralia.com/indexmain.htm

are also worth checking out for early oceanic pieces.

[ Edited by: magicman on 2005-02-16 21:44 ]

Another great site to check out, early pieces, with many items priced (and many sold!)

http://www.michaelhamson.com/

Enjoy!

These are wonderful, but(and I hate to be a wet blanket)there is also aproblem in that there are none of these old pieces left in the countries they originate from, which I find a shame.
I found this out whilst I was in Oz and got talking to a tiki collector who had spent time with his Oceanic neighbours. He said though it was fairly easy to come by the contempory/tourist art, the country (PNG) had been pillaged of everything else, and apparently the natives aren't too happy about it.

Kooche
That is very ture about the old stuff and the energy. But if we don't make new stuff then it won't be around to get old like the old stuff. You should save yourself around $2855.00 and paint one up to look like the skulls showen. And even roll it in the dirt. Better yet, its your new present, go berry it in your backyard for a year. It will be your gift next year too.

On 2005-02-17 03:01, cheekytiki wrote:
These are wonderful, but(and I hate to be a wet blanket)there is also aproblem in that there are none of these old pieces left in the countries they originate from, which I find a shame.
I found this out whilst I was in Oz and got talking to a tiki collector who had spent time with his Oceanic neighbours. He said though it was fairly easy to come by the contempory/tourist art, the country (PNG) had been pillaged of everything else, and apparently the natives aren't too happy about it.

This is true and must be considered. I LOVE old Ehnographic Museums, especially photos of old displays like the one in
http://www.tribalmania.com/SHOWCASE.htm

But look at all that stuff! Forget Tiki mug collecting, if you wanna talk collectors mania, see what went on with European Museums at the turn of the last century. Under the guise of scientific need they cleaned out whole cultures with a thoroughness that can only be described as greed.

The argument that is still used today is preservation, which sticks only partially. True, many amazing objects would have rotted away would they have not been collected, but it is a half truth/excuse that ALL these pieces would have been thrown away after their ritual use had ended. Yet it was used as Carte Blanche for all objects, and is still the attitude of mind for freely displaying them today.

My home town's beloved Voelkerkunde Museum had an interesting exhibit last year of the results of their South Seas expedition of 1908/09:

Ethnologists used a specially equipped steamer (which was partially rebuilt in the exhibit) to visit villages in the Bismarck Archipelago and along the New Guinea coast, which were at that time "German Protectorates", one of the belated efforts of Germany to become a colonial power (which ended with World War One). Within in a few weeks the expedition amassed a collection of 15 000 (!) objects. Granted, this counts small things like fishhooks too, but why so many!

Most were traded, but the mode in which this was done sometimes was highly questionable, too: In some villages, the natives took flight to the jungle because they feared being "recruited" (enslaved) for plantation work, so the ethnologists went through the empty huts and "collected" what they liked, and, in a manner referred to as "anonymous purchase" left trinkets in trade for the primitve art pieces. "Excuse me, but I am sure you don't mind if I take your family saint and leave you this CAN OPENER!"

Not a good example of scientific behaviour, to use the protection of being the colonial power, and the fear instilled by skin traders, to obtain the desired objects.

I am not one to believe that history can be reversed, and that if all this stuff would be repatriated today, all would be fine. New Guinea is a country rife with corruption and crime, and who knows who would end up with that stuff. But the European Museums should own up to their deeds and discuss them openly, which they don't.

That's why I would be carefully considerate in the purchase of old tribal art, and believe that the gallery that Tiki Wahine mentioned to be a nice alternative. I like that they name the artists, which was never done in "primitive" art collecting. I would be like saying today "..this carving might hail from the "Orange County Province", or the "Whittier Tribe".

I am not trying to be Mister Politically Correct, I still love the shunned term "primitive" art, and would like nothing more than to own an ancient Marquesan bone Tiki, but ya can't have it all!

I think that in the early days of exploration, Europeans were far more interested in the curiosity value of Polynesian objects rather than any monetary value. A quick read of Cook's journals reveals that most of the time he was trading in order to get on the good side of the locals. The natives were as eager, if not more, to get their hands on what what on board the ships. If you calculate in the number of crewmen, all wanting their own souvenirs, and you've quickly stripped a good proportion of a village's valuables.

Certainly a more cynical trade built up in the following years, but I think to portray explorers and colonialists as wholly exploitational gives the wrong idea. While a vast number had suspect reasons for going to these 'far-flung' places, many others had far more noble reasons for going.

Part of the reason for saying this is that I have a great love for museums and the fact that they make such objects available for all to view, regardless of their income. My arguement against many museums is that they hoard too much, far away from the public eye.
(I've been waiting for the British Museum's incredible Polynesian collection to be made available again to the public for years and years)

The real tragedy is that these objects offered for sale might go into private collections, never to be seen again. But certainly - think things through before you buy.

Trader Woody

On 2005-02-17 13:57, Trader Woody wrote:
Part of the reason for saying this is that I have a great love for museums and the fact that they make such objects available for all to view, regardless of their income. My arguement against many museums is that they hoard too much, far away from the public eye.

IMHO, most museums keep large portions of their collections away from the public primarily because they don't have enough exhibit space. When it was still in Golden Gate Park, the Asian Art Museum in SF had enough room to display TEN PERCENT of the collection.

Also, some items can't go on public view because they are too delicate. When I got a behind-the-scenes tour of the Baseball Hall of Fame Library a couple of years ago, I saw thousands of photos and documents preserved in climate-controlled vaults that are only available to researchers.

in light of all this review and given it's clarifying power it saddens me to know that one of those war trophies was stolen from it's winner...some guy who killed another guy that was a part his family's nemesis crowd was robbed or driven to slavery in order to satisfy another man's curiosity about foreign culture instead of opting to learn about it in first person...

in my mind i would buy something like that in order to liken myself to the trophy holder's spirit conceptually ...to believe that i am capable of striking down my obstacles in whatever form the present themselves... to claim the right to my life like he did in his day ...but now knowing that this guy was a victim makes me want to liken myself to him less... and knowing WHY he was taken for granted is even worse...the price tags on those things is amazing in and of itself...if the person who took it thought it was treasure it would never see the light of day (like the museum peices)...it was stolen to sell... weak!!!

somehow now i want to buy it even MORE just to liberate it and give it a proper altar where it would be surrounded by tiny tiny fires

that is SOME site though...cool images all over and through it...pirates!

[i]On 2005-02-17 15:35, cynfulcynner wrote
IMHO, most museums keep large portions of their collections away from the public primarily because they don't have enough exhibit space.
Also, some items can't go on public view because they are too delicate.

Sorry, I perhaps shouldn't have used the term 'hoard'. There are indeed many reasons for not showing parts of collections, such as the ones above. You can't see 99% of the British Museum's Polynesian collection purely because they are working on a new space for them.

I just feel that museums who have such large collections of unseen artifacts should be more proactive in lending the more robust ones for display elsewhere.

Trader Woody

The Bowers Cultural Museum in Santa Ana had a nice little collection of Papua New Guinea artifacts. I couldn't find any mention of it on thier site though....

I have some good photos of the Marc Davis Papua New Guinea collection though... I have to dig them out - but would be glad to post them...

These are all complicated ethical issues. There are some significant collections of old items still scattered amongst the pacific islands. And the natural history museum in Auckland, NZ has an amazing collection, with many tikis on display, an outstanding Malangan mask, and rare material from places like Tonga.