Are we the last generation of Tiki?

I had a thought last night while driving home from work....

Many of us here on TC have found an interest in Tiki due to childhood memories and experiences with our parents and grandparents.

Many of us seek it not for its current day novelty but its yesteryear charm. Its safe to say that for me Polynesian Pop Culture peaked in the time of my grandparents (I have young parents). Hanging out at a Don the Beachcomber or local Trader Vics (in San Diego) would have been something my 35-50 year old grandparents would have done.

My parents still experienced it in the form of 1960's beach culture but they would not have been of drinking age during the first big pop.

My interest is a current one but I cant help think that much of my interest was spurred by memories of going to places like this with my grandparents (Sea World etc).

As we all know, Tiki styled restaurants are more a niche now than a mainstream eatery. Of course MY kids will have memories of tiki stuff in their youth but only because I am an extremist and drag them out to all the tiki events.

I would wager that the average 8 year old will have no tie or memory to it whatsoever.

I guess what I asking is... Are we the last generation? Does it die with us or will there be another mainstream embracement of polynesian pop culture?

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2006-02-22 10:09 ]

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2006-03-02 23:36 ]

Unless the USA acquires a new state with a particularly appealing and unique culture as Hawaii had in 1959, which is very unlikely, I don't think any new theme from an existing culture is going to have much of an influence for many years to come, and the tiki-Hawaiiana theme is not likely to undergo any revivals, in my opinion. I think there will always be a group of people who relate strongly to that theme, but like aficionados of square dancing, midcentury architecture, rodeos, Civil War reenactments, Native American arts, Western gunslingers, swashbuckling pirates, and more, those eras have seen their heyday and there's no reason to expect a revival of interest across a large portion of the population. I think the best that can be done for the foreseeable future is to keep the interest going wherever and whenever possible.

Just my two cents worth.

P.S.--My personal prediction for the future, in about 50 years, after the upcoming General Collapse passes, is that there will be a general societal focus on emotional factors instead of the traditional engineering-physics-architecture-money focus. In other words, a science of the emotions and atmospheres and things you can't directly see or measure yet, instead of the naive midcentury philosophy that more gadgets, possessions, technology, and money will make people happier. That's about the time I expect it to be commonplace to map out the interests and tastes of individuals so as to maximize their moods, in everything from decor to friendships to sex. That's when I predict a boom of interest in different themes and cultures, including the tiki culture.

[ Edited by: mbonga 2006-02-22 10:45 ]

I have hope for future generations.

I think that there are enough places left (and enough new places popping up) that there are a fair number of little ones being exposed to tiki culture now.

I always see families with kids at Bahooka. The Enchanted Tiki Room is always packed. People who rent stuff for their luaus always seem to bring the kids along to Oceanic Arts.

Since tiki isn't currently as pervasive as it was in its heyday, the next generation of fanatics may be smaller than this one, and there may be a bit of a gap between upsurges, but I really believe that the next generation is being molded as we speak.

I also "lived" 60's TiKi, and therefore am one of the "indoctrinated ones. I believe that TiKi will live on as things worthwhile often have lives of their own. My kids have gotten TiKi through osmosis and infusion from the current (albeit waning) fad. The TiKi that we know and love today has morphed from the “Polynesian lifestyle” of the 50’s and 60’s and may I say it has improved in some respects, look at page 41 of BOT, That poor fellow has not fully evolved, heck he is not fully upright and we do not have to wear Capri pants…Yes, I think that TiKi will live on indefinitely but I am sure it will not be like it is today, good bad or indifferent, it will be TiKi! BTW, on page 19 of BOT, today that Asian man would be allowed to sit at the table…

No, we aren't. :wink:

As a new father, I can definitely say, no, we aren't. I'll see to it.

Seeing as how we have all drunk the elixir of immortality and thus will live forever, it is a moot point; this generation of tiki lovers will never die.

Formikahini the Immortal
Actually, secretly, age 87

I think Tiki will continue into the future, but it will look and sound more like "Spongebob Squarepants" than "Trader Vics".

I agree with ookoo lady. Tiki will be even more "watered down","diluted". Everything is becoming pasteurized, homogenized, americanized, christianized, so that the only place you'll find anything "pure" will be those places that have fought to hold on to their cultures and resist change. Even then some haven't survived. The eurocentric mindset lives to destroy indigenous cultures and paves the forests and jungles over with concrete and strip malls. (Buy this and it will make you happy)

We need green jungles and forests, so does mother earth, so does tiki. Tiki represents (to me) the balance between man and mother earth that once existed. Both are slowly dying.

If all the green things that grow were taken from the earth, there could be no life. If all the four-legged creatures were taken from the earth, there could be no life. If all the winged creatures were taken from the earth, there could be no life. If all our relatives who crawl and swim and live within the earth were taken away, there could be no life. But if all the humans beings were taken away, life on earth would flourish.

This is it, enjoy it while you can.

I'm from Milwaukee and have no ties whatsoever to the tiki pop culture of the past. But I still love it and so do my kids, so hopefully it will last a very long time. :)

On 2006-02-22 14:54, Jungle Trader wrote:

...We need green jungles and forests... This is it, enjoy it while you can...

... ride a bike instead of driving your car, walk to where you go to rather than drive your car, utilize mass transit instead of driving your car, ride a bike, ride a skateboard, live in the community in which you work, buy bulk foods, grow fertilizer & pesticide free fruits & veggies, stop eating meat, recycle, compost, conserve energy, vote green, utilize rammed earth & passive solar technologies, integrate & maintain the natural ecosystems & landscapes with regard to food, shelter and energy...

... but, never stop drinking good ale, lots of good ale...

Never fear, Baby Boomers... the next generation has turned it into an appreciated art form. It'll be around. Maybe not always in the same format, but it's here to stay.

Tiki will survive, even if tiki palaces do not.

Pottery Barn Kids had a blackboard in the form of a tiki bar a few years back and regularly has Hawaiian aspects.

If the next generation continues to go to Hawaii, they will still have the tikis at the Polynesian Cultural Center, the most visitied paid destination on the most visited Hawaiian island.

Here at home, Trader Joes is bringing tiki into the daily experience, in some markets.

Even Target carries tiki for the dorm room and as a garden accessory. Kohl's does too.

Tiki will survive, even if real estate investors continue to sacrafice tiki palaces on the alter of development.

On 2006-02-22 11:59, Formikahini wrote:
Seeing as how we have all drunk the elixir of immortality and thus will live forever, it is a moot point; this generation of tiki lovers will never die.

Formikahini the Immortal
Actually, secretly, age 87

I like this quote in particular. But the reality is that my 17 year old son is making me a Zombie right now, in commemoration of Don the Beachcomber's birthday, today. He's also taken up a little carving...

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-02-23 12:26 ]

A friend of mine's son, now 15 and living in Boulder CO, has taken up tiki carving. He'd never heard of Tiki Central and knew nothing of the current tiki "fad." He just likes it. There's hope.

I think the highball glass/ coconut shell mug is half full not half empty. I only found out about all of you wonderful knuckleheads (aka TC Ohana) last spring. After Hukilau I was hooked and am a "lifer" now. I rue the fact that I grew up less than an hour from the Kahiki in it's heyday but because my parents weren't really into dining out I never knew much about it other than what I saw on their TV adverts. I think TIKI inspires passion and that is good. I remember the looks on the faces of those young musicians in the wee hours of Sunday as Unga's party at the Cabana was breaking up, those kids were hooked as well. If they went back to Bean Town and their ravings inspired just a couple other youngsters to see what it's all about then the magic is still there.

It's all good.
LLTCO*

*Long Live the TC Ohana

On 2006-02-22 14:54, Jungle Trader wrote:
I agree with ookoo lady. Tiki will be even more "watered down","diluted". Everything is becoming pasteurized, homogenized, americanized, christianized, so that the only place you'll find anything "pure" will be those places that have fought to hold on to their cultures and resist change.

The Place of Refuge should survive based upon its national park status.

The Moai are still standing.

While I agree with you, hopefully these icons alone are sufficient to enable there to be a perspective to get past the brand of tiki Target sells for dorm rooms.

Well, everything sort of metamorphosizes, you know what I mean?

This is the current generation of tikiness, but in many ways we seek to recreate its earlier eras and incarnations. Difficult considering a lot of the places and artifacts are physically nonexistent now...which is why every little scrap and shred that does exist is collected, preserved...this is a preservationist society. We seek to keep the history, the chronology, as intact as possible. Part of the memory, the enthusiasm itself, is insubstantial, and people try to recapture it in the reenactment of the rituals. Kind of like keeping a flame alight, but a conceptual flame.

I think part of the nature of this is sculpting in ghosts. It's always been a spooky business with me, anyway. Seems to me it's destined to evolve and change, at least, as it continues, and it'll continue as long as people keep it going!

Tiki will be the only inheritance the little pineapple gets :wink: I think all the little TC Kinder are so indoctrinated, it's inevitable that tiki will carry on for another generation. Maybe it will morph, but it will be to our tiki what ours is to their's.

My daughter drinks from a tiki mug every day while watching spongebob. New seeds are planted every day. I have given most of my family and friends mugs too. Have you ever seen the look on a kids face the first time he ever see's a tiki mug? Cool!

Look around at all you Young people here on TC. We have Many young faces, young artists and carversa. Lots of young'uns hannin' around. There will be plenty tiki interest for the younger generations as long as we keep going along they will keep coming and joining in. "God Bless the Child"
HappyHappyHappy

On 2006-02-23 04:48, Benzart wrote:
"God Bless the Child"

....who has his or her own tiki! :)

Even more reason to procreate! :wink: I know that my kids and their friends are going to have fond tiki memories even if the only place they remember is my bar. I'm already having a problem keeping the "little ones" out of the bar - my son obsesses with staring at the Witco fountain and drinking out of the tiki mugs on the odd occasion they make it upstairs. That's also another reason why I have to try and maintain the tiki authenticity in the Grotto... I don't want my kids to have a bastardized vision of what constitutes tiki and what separates it from all the other generic tropical motifs.

I think that like most niches and subcultures, it will survive in one form or another. Name any classic automobile or musical group/singer and you will find a consistent and dedicated fan base. People collect depression glass or dress like the 1940s. So it will be with Tiki. As with all subcultures and things worth saving, it will have its detractors.

Ironically, the thing that has helped with Tiki's resurgence and will help it survive, is something that has nothing to do with Tiki- the Internet. Without the Net, my knowledge of Tiki would be restricted to film images and faded memories of the Diamond Head restaurant. Instead, we have this group which links Tikiphiles on a worldwide basis.

Tiki is like Star Trek and we are merely the Next Generation.

Love long and prespire.

or was that live long and prosper...:)

On 2006-02-24 10:53, JackLord wrote:
Tiki is like Star Trek

Ouch!

I'm the next generation and I never got to experience those childhood tiki moments. I don't even remember what I thought about then I heard the word tiki two years ago. I came upon tiki by a number of chances and now have been spreading it. I hope to have a hand or two in the shaping of tiki history.

Since I didn't grow up tiki or don't have a cool tiki bar in my area, my goal to chase and maybe only by a painting, will be to feel the tiki vibes in a dark but colorfully light tiki bar, drinking out of a tiki mug that I made years ago. It will be hard to stop, until then. Tiki goal, man, you got to hav'em

He is right. Its totally true. In my crazy loud vintage barkcloth shirt, with my resin sculpted necklace and "aloha spirit" we have more in common with klingon masked, vulcan eared star trek fans than we would like to admit.

Its all about acceptance and escape.

The biggest difference (IMO) is that a Tiki Decorated home is MUCH MUCH cooler than a star trek decorated home.

On 2006-02-24 12:55, Monkeyman wrote:
He is right. Its totally true. In my crazy loud vintage barkcloth shirt, with my resin sculpted necklace and "aloha spirit" we have more in common with klingon masked, vulcan eared star trek fans than we would like to admit.

Its all about acceptance and escape.

Hey...I own my dorkdom like no one's biz-ness! But a Trekkie? That's hittin where it hurts! :wink:

A past thread that touches on the topic of Tiki culture and Trekkies....read at your own peril

Disclaimer: Adding this thread link was in NO way meant to derail Monkeyman's interesting post about where Tiki is headed. There's no doubt, I'm doing my part in spreading the word.
In my observations I've found kids dig it the most! Tiki is what it is... just thank the gods it is!

[ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-02-24 13:16 ]

On 2006-02-24 13:20, JackLord wrote:

... I just meant that like Star Trek itself, Tiki perseveres and is reinvented every decade or so while not losing is basic essence...

... kinda like creative anachronists?...

A past thread that touches on the topic of Tiki culture and Trekkies....read at your own peril

Groovy read, that. A bit of the ole way-back machine. Alas, it brings tears to my eyes to read some of those posts. So many fine young TC'ers, now gone to the archived pages of history. We lost a lot of good men/women...why did they have to die? Why'd they have to kill Bong!?! Oh right, the macrame incident, it was his own damn fault.

On topic: last generation of Tiki? Probably. Survival of the fittest, weed out the weak sisters, no upper body strength, bad clothes. That sort of thing. I know I'm the last of the midnite genetic line. I got fixed. It wasn't my idea, but part of my sentence on that morality charge. That videotape, the monkey and a dwarf episode. Mainly what got me was the Tricky Dick mask; the Yorba Lina mafia types got righteous lawyers.

Sure he went China, but wage and price controls? Stupid Keynesian theory. Oh, you can alleviate some immediate pressure from price gougers, get a kick in the Dow and some happy poll-numbers. Ok, maybe some elements of usury laws are attractive. But full employment? It doesn't work, not in any remotely free-market economy. Inflation, the big threat, is really just a by-product of fiscal and monetary policies. Nixon couldn't see the forest for the trees and was too caught up in his WWII paradigm of rationing and pseudo-black markets. The real issue in the late 60's was Dick's aversion to any semblance of recessionary economy, harking back to what he saw as THE reason for his narrow loss to Kennedy in '60.

While price controls may limit the costs of disinflation by prohibiting wage increases that are out of line with demand and prices. Restrictive monetary policy is the means to cure inflation, with price controls the soothing balm that takes away the pain. That may be logical, however the actual outcome is far from it. The pressures on the Federal Reserve to avoid recession may lead to a continuation or even acceleration of excessive growth in the money supply. And this is what happened under Dick Nixon in '71. It was argued, rather impotently, these controls were proper as they were being employed to delay the worst inflationary effects until a more fundamental inflation cure was put in place. Unfortunately, monetary policy continued to be expansionary, perhaps even more so. The basic premise remains true, it's fiscal and monetary policy, not governmental controlling of wages or prices.

Just goes to show, you go Keynesian and you will get a shortage or a surplus.

Tiki's cool...
midnite

On 2006-02-24 14:12, midnite_tiki wrote:

...Nixon couldn't see the forest for the trees and was too caught up in his WWII paradigm of rationing and pseudo-black markets....

... whoa, a nixon/tiki halloween mask (and related gift items)... great idea, porkchop... a whole new angle... imagine the nixon tiki mug (cold drinks cause it to sweat, cool!) and the collectors of it years from now... low runs, high resale value... awesome!...

Hell, no...somebody has to make us our Mai Tais at the retirement community!

I think many of us were drawn to it because it was an abandoned theme of wild and boundless bad taste and shocking iconography. It is for the most part unrefined and clashes with subtle things associated with what most people wished to aspire to.

I think the further from popularity it goes, the stronger it's ties are with those goofballs who purposely golf at pebble beach wearing a pink yellow aloha shirt and cammos.

A neighbor and friend of mine died two years ago from a bee sting. I don't know how many times I drove by his house to see him standing out front in shorts and a aloha shirt watering his lawn... the hose in one hand, a beer in the other and a little cigar hanging from his lips. When I filed by his casket to pay my last respects he was wearing an aloha shirt with three of those little cigars in his pocket. All of us have to die but we don't have to lose our cool (or our sense of humor).

I think my opinion much follows JackLord's post...tiki culture will be a subculture only perhaps, but there will always be those who appreciate it. People are still listening to rockabilly, to exotika, to swing, still chopping their cars, still watching Turner Classic Movies, still listening to Beethoven. Good things don't die simply because they lose their popularity. Even if every tiki restaurant and bar does close, there will still be collectors installing their own personal tiki bars. Call it subculture, call it kitsch, call it whatever you want, but these things never die.

And here my opinion diverges...Star Trek is acceptable. I love the 50s/60s visions of the future...the same way that Disney's Tomorrowland was originally the "World of 1987." I graduated high school in 1987, and if only the world was really like that...I may be the only one here who would have loved to live in the Home of the Future, but so be it.

Don't be afraid! the reason we are here now is that it already was mainstream, and already died off at least once. Anytime anything catches the public fancy, will eventually fall from it as well. And once gone, be resurrected, because it is "new". It is the great Tiki circle of life. I don't know about you, but my first mugs were .25 and .50 cents, and I passed up many because they were not full body Tiki's, and at any goodwill there were enough to be picky. Why? because they were tacky souvenirs of an era long gone. Because they were once a "must have" and were now just taking up space in the garage. Because they were the parents and grandparents junk. Tiki will probably become more and more mainstream, hit big, and die back. pretty much anything popular does that. The fact that "the Kids" are into it is a sure sign of it's eventual demise. But, does that make the Mai Tai less tasty? the Lau Lau less luscious? don't cry because 2am will eventually come, Order another round and let them kick you out, and then in your drunken sleep you will dream of the Kahiki! The only people who need worry are those who are into it because it is in, because they buy whatever is in urban outfiters or spencers or hot topic, and forget it just as quickly. Bars will open and close, outrigger mugs will become pencil cups on cluttered desks. If we are lucky, our kids or their kids will find those $100 mugs in goodwill for .50 and buy a few, 'cause, you know, they are kinda cool...

It could follow the path of the swing rebirth from about 1995 or so....everything that was sold then at higher prices is now cheap. I haven't seen any zoot suits at Goodwill, but it wouldn't surprise me...I have seen plenty of bowling shirts.

One of our newest members is PockyTiki, a High School Student, making him a generation younger than me, Bong, 'BooBen, etc.

Tiki can never die, because it's part of the past. You can't change the past.

As long as there are vintage mugs and postcards, menus and photographs to remember what was once there, there will always be someone to love it, and hold it dear to their heart.

What is fading are the people who had first hand experience during the original heyday. It's important that we also have the books and stories to document their experiences.

Tiki will never die, because there will always be people discovering it. Everything that we do is helping the next generation find out what tiki was all about. Sure, modern ideas may be slightly askew, but the original will always be there for reference. In book, in postcard, in mind, computer, menu, matchbook, mp3, LP, etc.

Live long! Live Tiki!

What about the Beanie Baby? Where its love and second chance. Never liked those things

My wife wants to know if she can put a bullet in the whole TiKi "thing" and take it out of it's misery...okay, so she's not a fan...how does it go? Go along to get along?

Ok, so I'm the new guy........to me Tiki is a state of mind...The wife and I put in a new pool, screen enclosure and a complete make over of the porch and back yard.

When we go out on the porch now, we're in our world, not the busy lives we work in everyday...

We just put in the Tiki Bar and are now making the finishing touches to make it ours....It is our little place to Relax and enjoy, our friends love it our neighbors won't go home....must be, we are converting them into Tiki.

TIKI IS A STATE OF MIND (IMHO)

BananaBob!

On 2006-03-01 12:38, bananabobs wrote:
My wife wants to know if she can put a bullet in the whole TiKi "thing" and take it out of it's misery...okay, so she's not a fan...how does it go? Go along to get along?

Take her to Hawaii, then dump her! Just Kiddin' - Jeez!

No, Just take her to Hawaii. But if you have already done that, dump her.

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-03-02 22:49 ]

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-03-02 22:59 ]

No! I think not!

As a perfect example, if I may: Check out PockyTiki - he's a younger guy and enthusiastic! as Monty Python said, "He's not dead yet!"

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-03-03 08:37 ]

I don't think Tiki is fading away. To the contrary. I think Tiki is about to experience a major revival. These are very troubling times for many and the creativity, decadence, theater and sheer escapism that Tiki offers is now being discovered and embraced in very non-Tiki places by formerly non-Tiki people.

Sure there will be some change in the years to come, but don't forsake tomorrow because it may not be identical to yesterday. The Tiki of the 40's was different from the Tiki of the 60's and so much has survived because the current generation has made incredible strides in making Tiki accessible to so many. The Book of Tiki, Vegas Vic's Tiki Lounge, KonaKai, Tiki Central, the Tiki Events...and the list goes on. If not for those of you who choose to keep the old ways alive, then we (those of us who've newly discovered this exciting and exotic world) would never have found it.

The more we discover the world you know, the world you've kept alive, the more we'll uncover, incorporate into ourselves and offer to future generations.

When we sold our house last year, the young couple had seen it with the tiki bar intact. At the walk through it had been stripped of everything except the matting, bamboo, and seagrass matting. I was half expecting them to ask if we could restore the room back to it's original condition because they wanted to use it as an office, but instead they asked to keep it as is. I gave them the names and websites of where we got our decor. A few months later Holden called to thank me for sending them his way as they bought a bunch of stuff from him and Oceanic Arts.
I also heard that it is not an office, that he had put in a bar.

A few weeks ago some teachers were walking a class of 7-8 year old kids around our block as I was watering out front. The teacher said "looks like he is re-doing his yard" to which two of the children said "it looks like Hawaii!!!" I think there is hope.