On The Origins of Tiki Central and the Tiki Rebirth (Q & A)

Can we enlist the help of some of the early members of this board for a bit of fun Q & A?

The format of this thread is quite simple. Questions are on the Poly-Pop Era, the Rebirth of Tiki, and the Origins of this Website. The old timers talk, us newer members listen & learn. Questions are for anyone who was involved in the genre "way back".

Here's a couple of questions to get things rolling:

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:right: Questions for bigbrotiki (Author of the BOT™):

Who are the people in this picture? (Pg. 13 of the BOT, captioned "Urban Archaeologists examining a fallen idol at the defunct amusement park The Tikis in Lake Elsinore, California.")

Detailed narrative please! What all happened that day? How did you get into the park? And more importantly, do the ruins of The Tikis still exist today?

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:right: Questions for Hanford:

I did a little digging and stumbled upon what I think was the first thread on TC. And here's the archive.org version of the Forums back in 2002. Dug a little further and found an old ghost town on Yahoo!

On 2002-03-23 18:42, hanford_lemoore wrote:
Welcome to this new and cool forum.

Please post and let me know what you think.

So, Hanford. Tell us a bit about the origins of this site. And the Yahoo! Club before that. And the small groups of tiki enthusiasts that might have existed even before that. How did it all get started?

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Let's give these guys a chance to muse a bit, then fire away with your own questions (spread them around). There's a great list of "old timers" on that Yahoo! page....

:right: (next)....

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua 2006-08-24 12:30 ]

To whomever.

How many Trader Vics were there in all?

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-16 22:40 ]

Tiki Re-Birth???

ooops, my question wasnt quite inline with AA's guidlines.

[ Edited by: rodeotiki 2006-08-16 23:51 ]

Aaron,

What a great post. I actually have been planning on writing a bit about this for a while. I'm really busy with things these days, but I'd like to get something about this posted. Give me some time ....

*On 2006-08-16 22:18, Aaron's Akua wrote:*Who are the people in this picture? (Pg. 13 of the BOT, captioned "Urban Archaeologists examining a fallen idol at the defunct amusement park The Tikis in Lake Elsinore, California.")

The guy in the back with glasses is the infamous Dug Miller, kneeling guy is Sven (Bigbro) and I think the bald fellow is Otto. I don't know who the other person is. I think Sven said all the 'Tikis' tikis are long gone now... last I heard it was being used for paint ball...

The closer I look at the above 'Tiki Lakes' photo, the more mystified I am. The hunched over bald fellow (who doesn't quite look like Otto to me) has someone's arm draped over his shoulder. But whose arm is it? If that isn't an arm on his back, then what is it? And why does the guy who is pointing down look like Tom Waits?

It is all a tiki mystery to me!

Vern

On 2006-08-17 07:40, ikitnrev wrote:
The closer I look at the above 'Tiki Lakes' photo, the more mystified I am. The hunched over bald fellow (who doesn't quite look like Otto to me) has someone's arm draped over his shoulder. But whose arm is it? If that isn't an arm on his back, then what is it? And why does the guy who is pointing down look like Tom Waits?

It is all a tiki mystery to me!

Vern

and is there a shooter on the grassy knoll?

I just read this article by James Teitelbaum the other day and it is a nice history of the early days from his perspective. Otto, Sven and Tiki Central and the early days of Tiki on the Internet. An interesting read on the early days.

Those are police investigators. The man pointing happens to be "Suspect" John Karr. He had already confessed to Police as to the knocking over of the Tiki.
Karr said, "I loved that Tiki. It was an accident".

On 2006-08-17 09:35, HelloTiki wrote:
Those are police investigators. The man pointing happens to be "Suspect" John Karr. He had already confessed to Police as to the knocking over of the Tiki.
Karr said, "I loved that Tiki. It was an accident".

Flounder should give you 2 prints for this one!

Classic!

"Questions for bigbrotiki (Author of the BOT™):

Who are the people in this picture? (Pg. 13 of the BOT, captioned "Urban Archaeologists examining a fallen idol at the defunct amusement park The Tikis in Lake Elsinore, California.")"

The guy pointing at the fallen idol is John English, the leg coming into the photo is Kaira Geller's (I believe).

More of the structures from the old Tikis are there than I had anticipated, but just pulling up there now is a surreal experience. You pull off the road, go thru the old gates, up a pot holed drive, the place is packed with pick up trucks, every where you look there are (seemingly) hundreds of men, boys walking around totally tricked out in cammo gear and paint ball guns galore, people yelling in the background with the sound of their guns going off, colored splashes of paint covering everything. It very much felt like that scene in Apocalypse Now, when the little boat finally gets to Kurtz' compound, it seemed like they all turned to look at us as we pulled in. Over the fence you can see some old O-A molding on a building, I have a few pictures somewhere but they are not of any great quality as I did all my photography from the car.

My very best Alohas,

Bosko

This is what has become of The Tikis:

http://www.jungle-island.com/fields/volcanos.html

Note the Poles holding up the lighting

:right: Question for Bamboo Ben.

This picture always fascinated me (Pg. 74 of the BOT, captioned "The 'original beachcomber', Ely Hedley chiseling Moais for the Aku Aku in Las Vegas").

How did he carve this massive stone tiki? (Not just with that pickaxe or whatever it is, I hope?). What kind of stone was it made of? And how old was he at the time? For a guy his age, he must have been one tough son-of-a-gun.

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua 2006-08-17 13:10 ]

On 2006-08-17 12:14, TikiPhil wrote:
This is what has become of The Tikis:

http://www.jungle-island.com/fields/volcanos.html

Note the Poles holding up the lighting

now it's covered in paint balls splatts

[ Edited by: unklefun 2006-08-21 14:38 ]

...
Thats just wrong. I had to email the Jungle Island paintball people and tell them how uncool for what they have done to Tikis. Everyone shold give them a piece of their mind on this one. Here's the email EMAIL US: [email protected] .

Otherwise it would an overgrown jungle probably and you would not be able to go there. Not something to get upset about. It is being used and kept in some shape, though covered in paintball juice...

More archaeology on archive.org...

This is the oldest known archive of Tiki Central - the original Yahoo! Clubs Tiki Central page. This was before the Yahoo! Groups "improvements" that deleted most of the posts, ruined the forum, and led to the creation of tikicentral.com. Here's a snapshot from December 15, 2000:

Tiki Central
Tiki bars, tiki mugs, tropical drinks, Shag!
Category: Drinks and Drinking
Stats
Members: [529] Page Views: [27801] Founded: [January 12, 2000]
Dec 15 28 members logged in
Number of visitors: 9
Page Views Today: 500

Unfortunately, only the index is archived and there's no way to check out the old posts.

On 2006-08-17 12:33, Aaron's Akua wrote:
:right: Question for Bamboo Ben.

This picture always fascinated me (Pg. 74 of the BOT, captioned "The 'original beachcomber', Ely Hedley chiseling Moais for the Aku Aku in Las Vegas").

How did he carve this massive stone tiki? (Not just with that pickaxe or whatever it is, I hope?). What kind of stone was it made of? And how old was he at the time? For a guy his age, he must have been one tough son-of-a-gun.

---

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua 2006-08-17 13:10 ]

Aloha AA,

First off, it's Eli not Ely. ( Arrrr!!) ( note to next writer. spell it right or never live it down!!)

The Aku's were carved from Feather Stone. A lightweight part of the Vocanic Reaction.

The chunks came from a quarry in northern Nevada and where shipped to his Katella Pad during the pre or just past pre Disney gig and post Whites Point, Royal Palms, the COVE aka Beachcomber days gig.

They were carved with Jack Hammers and Adz'zzz, etc...

Eli ( not Ely) looked old but he was silver grey and tanned from the sun from his Original Beachcomber days, pre Don the Beach, pre Tiki, and was full of energy and fun until the 7 sun strokes put him to bed rest later in life.

I hope this helps a bit. He did a lot more than just this and should have had a chapter in the BOT.

Next time you're at OA ask Bob and LeRoy about him.

p.s. He decorated the interior too!

OK, had some work to do, bills to pay, etc. Thank you guys for the help, now I'll try to give some additional info about the above picture:

I wish I remember the date, but my archive is in faraway LA..must have been around 1994. The person whose head got chopped off is my good friend Pete Moruzzi. At that time he was the chairman of the Los Angeles Modern Committee, which is part of the Los Angeles Conservancy. Since then he has founded and has become the chair of the Palm Springs Modern Committee, which is dedicated to preserving mid-century architecture in that area.

One of Pete's many heroic deeds in that vein was hand-carrying the Book of Tiki to the then new owners/managers of The Tropics Motel, Casey and his partner, thus enlightening them to what a treasure they had. The fact that they dropped their "Spanish mission" style renovation plans (except for adding the name "Caliente"), and kept the Tiki theme, marks the very first preservation success of the BOT.

Pete works freelance, advising companies in architectural preservation in LA, and his PS Modcom is very active (and also arranges some great modernist home tours!) His DVD vintage postcard tour "Desert Holiday" is a must for urban archeologists and fun to watch, available at their site: http://www.PSModCom.org

The person who has Pete's hand on his shoulder, Otto von Stroheim, really needs no introduction here. We met in the early nineties and I started doing Tiki slide shows at his mug parties, and when he had the idea to do a fanzine, I became the "executive editor" (or whatever :wink:) of "Tiki News", THE hand published tome that began gathering the scattered Tiki fans in California and the US. Some of my writing for Tiki News ended up in the BOT.

I am next, (hair already grey from thinking so much about Tiki), hunched down below Otto, fondling the specimen, one of the many fallen gods at The Tikis.

Behind Otto' head is Dug Miller, then producer for Disney Theme Park films, now semi-retired and proud proprietor of Tiki Island on the Big Island of Hawaii http://www.tikiislandhawaii.com/, where you can still find some of the TIKIS' artifacts salvaged that day.

Next to Dug, pointing at the Tiki, is John English, early member of the LA Modcom, once proprietor of "Googie Tours", now working at a company that advises in architectural preservation. John was the person who tipped me off that day the new Kelbo's owners had dumped all the Beachcomber lamps in the trash dumpster behind the joint...:)
Among his many projects he is now engaged in is monitoring the situation at the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's.

All the above people, off course, have contributed greatly to the rich tapestry of the Book of Tiki.

This was not my first or last expedition to the Tikis. I had heard many stories about this mythical place at Oceanic Arts, and Jeff Berry had been there already, and shown me pictures. But that expedition was a dream come true, because by that time Danny Balsz needed money and actually wanted people to come by and buy his remaining stuff, so the group above (plus Chris and Charlene Nichols, Jeff Berry, and..?) had a field day. Everybody went home with a Tiki or a lamp or other relics, and to this day it remains in my memory as one of my favorite expeditions into the forgotten realm of Tiki.

On 2006-08-17 22:31, RevBambooBen wrote:

First off, it's Eli not Ely. ( Arrrr!!) ( note to next writer. spell it right or never live it down!!)

I'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry
...but, better spelled wrong and being remembered than not being remembered at all!

I hope this helps a bit. He did a lot more than just this and should have had a chapter in the BOT.

True! And he WILL eventually, in my "Beachcomber" book, (three books down the line), I promise. So much great stuff did not fit into the BOT, it was painful to edit.

I saved many posts from the Yahoo Tiki Central group as emails starting in April, 2001. If anyone is interested I'll post some of the interesting ones in a seperate topic. It still seems like yesterday to me, when the Kahiki closed and TC started (in 2000), and Taboo Cove opened (in 2001).

On 2006-08-18 10:29, thejab wrote:
I saved many posts from the Yahoo Tiki Central group as emails starting in April, 2001. If anyone is interested I'll post some of the interesting ones in a seperate topic. It still seems like yesterday to me, when the Kahiki closed and TC started (in 2000), and Taboo Cove opened (in 2001).

I would be very interested. The history and perspective shared by the original members is valuable to those of us new members who live in very tiki-less locations (Michigan). I spend a lot of time trolling through the older posts looking for "wisdom".
Thanks
JP

Thanks for the info Sven & Ben!

I picked up some feather rock a long time ago & tried to start a carving with it. It was nasty stuff to work with! Tiny shards of sharp glass-like rock shot everywhere. I swept up like crazy, but still cut my feet a few times walking barefoot on the patio later. Never did finish that piece.

I've heard that Eli's big Moai was relocated to a park near the Las Vegas Airport. Has anyone here ever visited it? Any pics available?

On 2006-08-18 13:02, Aaron's Akua wrote:

I've heard that Eli's big Moai was relocated to a park near the Las Vegas Airport. Has anyone here ever visited it? Any pics available?

Check these out.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=1845&forum=1&vpost=205025&hilite=las%20vegas%20moai

i see it all the time. when the faire comes around, we camp right across from it.

Another old thread with pics of the Aku Aku moai in Sunset Park.

-Randy

:right: Question for Tikibars (Author of Tiki Road Trip™ and Big Stone Head: Easter Island and Pop Culture™ )

Excerpt from your web page: "Compiling my book in the necessary format required some painful choices. The first choice, the hardest choice, and the one that made Tiki Road Trip very different from The Tiki Bar Review Pages, is that I had to leave out all of the anecdotes of my personal journeys to these Tiki Bars…"

Three questions, actually:

Can you tell us a few of your stories or misadventures in researching Road Trip? (the ones you had to leave out). ~ What are your five favorite Tiki Bars of all time? (and why?). ~ And most importantly, did you manage to write off your accumulated bar tabs as a business expense?

On 2006-08-18 13:02, Aaron's Akua wrote:
I've heard that Eli's big Moai was relocated to a park near the Las Vegas Airport. Has anyone here ever visited it? Any pics available?

Mentioned on page 160 of TRT; I visited twice, and pics will be in TRT2.

It is on a little island in the middle of a pond and is covered in bird shit.

On 2006-08-19 21:33, Aaron's Akua wrote:
Three questions, actually:
Can you tell us a few of your stories or misadventures in researching Road Trip? (the ones you had to leave out). ~ What are your five favorite Tiki Bars of all time? (and why?). ~ And most importantly, did you manage to write off your accumulated bar tabs as a business expense?

I just re-read some stuff that I hadn't looked at sine I wrote it 6 or 7 years ago, I hope my feeble attempts at humor come across as such - for example calling Bacardi (very sarcastically) top shelf rum!
Poke around the archive of the TBRP and you'll find some of the adventures still posted. Try (for example) the pair of reviews of the places in Kentucky for a taste of danger, and the review of Bali Hai in Chile for some more cut material. Read the whole page forOmni Hut, as thre is a lot of non-Tiki road trip info there. Poke around, there's more cosmo tidbits here and there.

Not many surprises here: Mai Kai, Hala Kahiki, Trader Vic's Atlanta, Tiki Ti, Aku Hall (in my house!). Plus let me mention two ex-favorites: original unrenovated Islands Room (San Diego), and Kahiki in Columbus. Why? Again no surprises: all of have great TiPSY Factors, most have great drinks, and all are templates of what a great Tiki bar should be.

I didn't get hep to that rather obvious idea until just after TRT came out (which made me just enough of a legit writer to justify the write-offs - I can produce check stubs from royalty payments if I ever get audited); now I definitely write off all bar tabs and travel expenses!

Oh, and Swanky thanks for pointing out that my TBRP history page, which you linked to, is from my perspective. It definitely is my own perspective, and is absolutely not meant to be a definitive history of the Poly Pop revival. It is only meant to be some personal reflections on my years working on the TBRP, written in a fit of nostalgia as I pulled the plug on the site for good. Hope it is entertaining for some of you.

On 2006-08-17 13:14, Swanky wrote:

...
Thats just wrong. I had to email the Jungle Island paintball people and tell them how uncool for what they have done to Tikis. Everyone shold give them a piece of their mind on this one. Here's the email EMAIL US: [email protected] .

Otherwise it would an overgrown jungle probably and you would not be able to go there. Not something to get upset about. It is being used and kept in some shape, though covered in paintball juice...

True, it never opened for business anyway.

On 2006-08-16 22:35, GROG wrote:
To whomever.

How many Trader Vics were there in all?

Grog have good question. Jab post answer here...

On 2/19/02 tikifish wrote:

February 11, 2002

Trader Vic's unveils new look, menu

By Ellen Almer

*Trader Vic's, the kitschy purveyor of Polynesian drinks and cuisine that has been a Chicago landmark since 1937, reopens Tuesday after a six-week facelift.

While frequent visitors will still recognize the Tiki lounge-inspired restaurant in the basement of the Palmer House Hilton, 17 E. Monroe St., they will be greeted by a more open format, brighter lighting and a new chef, said Sven Koch, vice-president of Trader Vic's American operations.

The Chicago outlet,* the oldest of Trader Vic's 22 locations, *is the first to get the makeover, which Mr. Koch said will help the restaurant better compete in the increasingly popular Asian fusion genre. "We're trying to create a five-star dining experience," he said. New chef Karin Aghai has updated the menu but will stick with most of the original recipes, such as the eatery's popular Mongolian barbecue and Indonesian lamb roast.

Servers will wear long, flowery dresses and the bar will have a more "clubby" feel, he said. "We made a lot of improvements, but it's not like it's a different restaurant," Mr. Koch said. He declined to say how much the renovation cost.

The restaurant will reopen for dinner only, but Trader Vic's plans to reprise the buffet lunch service that has been popular with Loop office workers, Mr. Koch said. Tuesday's opening includes a Chinese New Year's celebration, featuring a traditional lion dance, at noon and 5 p.m.*

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On 2006-08-16 23:44, rodeotiki wrote:
ooops, my question wasnt quite inline with AA's guidlines.

Well, let's call them "loose guidelines"... As Bamboo Ben says, "There's no rules in tiki!"

:right: (next!)....

It says 22 in that post, but looking at Trader Vics website, they have 29 operating today. Are there more in existence now than in the heyday of tiki/polypop? And if so, GROG would take that as a good sign for the tik/polypop revival.

Grog,

That TV article from Chicago was dated 2002. The Chicago TV's was shut down after the News Year's Eve blast this past year. TV's may have more now but most are outside the U.S.

Good news on TV's in Chicago: the franchise store was bought by Harry Careys family and will be re-opened later this year as a stand alone restaurant in elsewhere in downtown Chicago. Curently you can get an authentic Trader Vic's Mai-Tai in the bars at any of the 3 downtown Harry Carey places.

Matt

Thanks, James!

This next one goes under the "Rebirth" Category.

And the question goes to...

:right: Crazy Al:

Al, what were the circumstances that led to the formation of Ape™? ~ You once told me about a gig where you were carving away and the head flew off your axe, narrowly missing some members of the crowd. Now, we've all seen you up on the Ape crate, somehow managing to carve, dance, and perform a balancing act all at once. Any other near misses? ~ And lastly, is there a new CD in the works? And will "Witchcraft Man" be on it? (my fave stage number)

~ Photo from Tiki Oasis 6 ~

you ask big question little carver.........
me have to write book.... some info in Tiki Mag Artical on me

in short......
art center school '88...
Swingin Tikis...
gratuate '92...
Swamis...
Swamis break up...
APE '98

no loss of limbs or optics

no CD in near future

That Crazy Al, he's one long-winded S.O.B. Once he gets started, you just can't shut him up.Crazy bastard must've been typing for hours!

We didn't need your whole life-story, Al. Just a simple straight-forward answer would've sufficed. Jeez.

I heard it through the Ape-Vine

that 2 of the Ape-Mates

are having Babies soon so that's why I'm guessing no new cd.

Al's going to be a father?!!!!

... hmmm....

Al has two ape-mates?!!!!

2 mates, now that's a SWINGIN' ape with a happy banana!

I have a couple of questions,

What ever happened to the "Tikiccino" machine shown in the BOT? Hopefully it is someplace safe. I saw a post from a couple years ago here about it being for sale and in bad state of repair, but nothing since.

How many printings of the hardcover version of the BOT were there? How many copies were printed?

Thanks

JP

On 2006-08-31 09:42, JohnnyP wrote:

What ever happened to the "Tikiccino" machine shown in the BOT? Hopefully it is someplace safe. I saw a post from a couple years ago here about it being for sale and in bad state of repair, but nothing since.

A while after I had photographed it in situ at The Tikis, Danny's wife was offering it for sale. But the price ($400 or 500) seemed too steep considering that the lines had corroded and it supposedly was unrepairable. Granted, it was an artifact in its own right, but sometimes I feel satisfied enough to just have brought across a unique concept in Tikidom and see no pressing need to possess the object.

Oddly enough, about two years later, me and Dug Miller went on an expedition to Anaheim, and way down South on Harbor Blvd we went into this odd nursery (forgot the name) that had a duck pond around an oil rig, and some cookie Tikis, and there it was again, sitting on a shelf. The owners had invested in The Tikis and taken it as a loss payment. I have no idea where it went from there. I wrote an article about that place in an old Tiki News, maybe someone can find and post it.

How many printings of the hardcover version of the BOT were there? How many copies were printed?

I have that written down somewhere...have no real record of it because Taschen is not very communicative about their sales, and I have no proof because I did not get a percentage on the book:

The first printing in the padded hard cover was 25,000 I believe...then the second printing, already flexi cover, was another 12,000 or so. The third printing was 5000, so over 40,000 have sold by now. I was pushing for a 4th printing, no luck so far, I just hope it will happen for the release of the new book

2008 Note on the BOT print run: What was I saying! The second printing was STILL in the padded hard cover, the THIRD was in the flexi cover...and I bet they printed more than 5000 of that. Haha...no luck on the 4th printing, at all!

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-04-03 10:58 ]

I don't think we're getting the real truth about that day yet.

Why was Jimmy Buffet invited along and who removed him from that pic? C'mon--talk!

Wellll....alright: We were all getting plastered on Margaritas at a parrot head open air free concert, when Jimmy Buffet actually rudely knocked over the Tiki while he was swinging his guitar on stage.

Here he is trying to explain what happened to the "Tiki First Aid Team" (us):
John English is pointing at the Tiki's already dilated pupils, while I am vainly attempting to take its temperature. Otto is stating that it's too late, while Pete Moruzzi is trying to calm Otto by putting his hand on Otto's shoulder.

Man, that Jimmy Buffet sure is a Tiki hater!

HAW! Haw!