Borat? Not cool.

At the risk of sounding like a grouch, and somebody who has no sense of humour I'm going to go public here and say the Borat movie that I just saw was not cool. In fact it was pretty disturbing, and I'm not talking about the actual content of the film. Let me just say that I have no problem with vulgarity. I'm not an ultra-conservative G-Rated loving, easily offended person. I'm not offended by swearing, nudity, etc. I love comedy. I love George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, Chris Rock, John Waters and happen to think for example that 'Blazing Saddles' is a pretty fucking funny movie. After you've lived in New York for as long as I have, nothing surprises you. The thing about Borat (which I saw NOT by choice with a friend of mine) that disturbs me is how hugely successful this movie is. Number one at the box office? I actually saw a guy with two kids there that were probably no more than 10 years old. What the hell? I mean this is definitely film as a subversive art no question about it, and I use 'art' loosely, but I find putting regular, otherwise harmless people on the spot to be the fodder for your own comedy not cool. When something like The Daily Show pulls this kind of routine with somebody that deserves it, it's funny. I thought 'Borat' did this pretty well with the Frat Guys (who are now suing him). But other than that, how 'ingenious' is this? Pissing people off for a laugh? That's schoolyard crap. I'm also so over the shock value that alot of comics (and artists) throw into their material to illustrate how 'cutting edge' they are. At this point it's just boring. Throw a penis, vagina image or reference or a fart sound effect in there and that's supposed to be pushing the envelope? I mean c'mon. Yeah, Mel Brooks did that kind of thing, but somehow it was in a different context and funnier. As a friend of mine put it who actually liked the film "it's a step up from 'Jackass' and a step down from Michael Moore". With the popularity of 'Jackass' and this 'Borat' film, popular culture is just going that much futher into swift decline. Anyway, I just found this guy to be a selfish jerk-off who thought it would be cool to go out and get the best of people. YAWN! Big deal...

[ Edited by: donhonyc 2006-11-12 15:00 ]

I just got back from the film. Borat is hilarious.

Does he take advantage of innocent people? No more than Andy Kaufman and a lot less than people like Dr. Phil. I can't remember many films that got 92% positive reviews at Rotten Tomatoes -- 100% positive from their cream of the crop reviewers. I wouldn't take very young children, but I'd say it's a lot healthier for them than the much more common violent stuff that has an empirically measured deleterious effect on society.

But most importantly, Borat is hilarious.

[ Edited by: monkeyskull 2006-11-12 21:47 ]

Was never a big fan of that confrontational stuff that Andy Kaufman did either. It's a no brainer; bait people or confront them when they don't expect it and chances are you're going to get something 'funny' out of it, just like crank calling. Alot of people love to see other people uncomfortable or lose their cool. It's just pandering to the bad tastes of America, but ultimately the joke's on the audience. It's almost like a softcore snuff film. It's all funny until it's happening to them. Then suddenly it's invasive and offensive. To each his own I guess. What parts of the Borat film did you actually like, aside from the naked wrestling thing...

[ Edited by: donhonyc 2006-11-12 22:21 ]

Wow! An opinion that is not lock-step with what everyone else thinks??

I LOVE it!! (and couldn't agree more!)

I have not seen this movie, nor have I seen Jackass, but I do intend to see "Idiotcracy" when it comes out on DVD, because I think that is generally where society is heading.

I do intend to see "Idiotcracy" when it comes out on DVD, because I think that is generally where society is heading.

What film is that?

A below average guy is somehow put in suspended animation, and when he awakes in the future, discovers that he is the smartest guy around. (I guess the gene pool has really deteriorated by then). Anyway, typical of the time period, the academy award winning movie is simply called "ass". Not even "jack-ass". Just plain "ass".

Let me see if I can find a link.

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2006-11-13 09:22 ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

http://www.slate.com/id/2150627/

This is a good review.

Thanks. I actually read up on this after I saw your original post. Sounds like a very funny, and very depressing film. I'll look out for it. Just think..they had a hard time releasing 'Idiocracy', yet 'Borat' just had another major No. 1 weekend at the box office. Does that put things a little bit in perspective or what? I guess the general public would literally rather see some fat guy put his balls in the face of another man while wrestling naked in hotel room. As the old saying goes..."THAT'S EN-Ter-TAIN-Ment!".

this is silly....does anyone really care?? it's just a movie....

Last month, I did a Google search on "Idiocracy" just to see what was going on with it and if it was coming out on dvd and LO AND BEHOLD it was playing in Pasadena! So yeah, of course I went and saw it. Seen it...? Soar it?...

Scared the hell out of me.

No, actually it was easily as scary as it was funny. Could have been so much better, but still deserved a fair shake at the box office.

Everyone should see it anyway.

Borat? Yeah, that Mr Baron Cohen guy is pretty damn funny. Laughs at the expense of random civilians? Pretty low, especially when he's their guest. The real laughs come when you feel the victims have it coming. I'd rather he did a Bruno movie (that's his gay fashionista character). At least there he preys on the deserving.

-Joe

reminds me of CHUCK BARRIS ,when asked to explain the sucess of the GONG SHOW," the people what crap ,i give them crap"

reminds me of CHUCK BARRIS ,when asked to explain the sucess of the GONG SHOW," the people what crap ,i give them crap"

On 2006-11-13 16:47, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
this is silly....does anyone really care?? it's just a movie....

Yeah, I care. A well thought out opinion does'nt need to be shot down. You don't have to agree, but at least he has the balls to put something out there that a lot of people might not like. I respect that.

I saw the movie with my wahine and actually thought is was one of the funnier movies I've ever seen.

My wahine did not like the movie or Borat at all. She thought it offensive and crude and I respect her opinion. Borat is not for everyone. I love Borat and thought the movie offensive (not personally), crude, clever, brilliant, and outrageous! I also enjoy getting my wahine to occasionally pull my finger, so that tells you a little about me. I think you either love Borat or you hate him.

For anyone not familiar with Cohen/Borat and on the fence about going to the movie, I'd search for "Borat" on YouTube and watch some clips from his HBO and BBC shows. Watch him salt out the bigotries and elitist silliness from the people with whom he interacts -- from Cambridge to Tucson. If it bothers you or if you don't find it funny, don't go. If it's not unusual for you to feel offended by a comedian, by all means don't go. If your girlfriend or wife suspects that she'll dislike it, she will -- virtually guaranteed. If you could barely stand to watch the BBC version of "The Office" because it was so mean -- even if you knew it was just actors -- don't go. If you think people's religious beliefs should not be mocked, don't go.

I'm not suggesting that everybody that dislikes the film falls into the above categories, but even people who love the film are a bit shocked by parts of it. On the other hand a lot of us are laughing our asses off at the same time.

But do NOT confuse "Borat" for "Jackass." The latter is just dumb; I don't mean that necessarily in a pejorative sense -- but rather in the way that "Benny Hill" is just dumb. The Borat character's ignorance, on the other hand, requires the nimbleness of a very clever mind. And while not all of his "victims" are bigots, he does try to aim primarily for bigots, elitists, and bullies of various stripes. The anti-semitism he both exhibits and exposes and the condacension his character engenders are all the more funny because we viewers, of course, all know that he's Jewish and Ivy League.

Cohen's work is not high brow and it's primary aim is simply to be funny -- but it is also immistakably satire. I tend to believe that exposing the ridiculousness of bigotry does more to mitigate it than any number of speeches and marches. Any film that does that and makes me laugh half as much as "Borat" is quite welcome in my view.

[ Edited by: monkeyskull 2006-11-14 23:53 ]

But do NOT confuse "Borat" for "Jackass." The latter is just dumb; I don't mean that necessarily in a pejorative sense -- but rather in the way that "Benny Hill" is just dumb. The Borat character's ignorance, on the other hand, requires the nimbleness of a very clever mind. And while not all of his "victims" are bigots, he does try to aim primarily for bigots, elitists, and bullies of various stripes. The anti-semitism he both exhibits and exposes and the condacension his character engenders are all the more funny because we viewers, of course, all know that he's Jewish and Ivy League.

Cohen's work is not high brow and it's primary aim is simply to be funny -- but it is also immistakably satire. I tend to believe that exposing the ridiculousness of bigotry does more to mitigate it than any number of speeches and marches. Any film that does that and makes me laugh half as much as "Borat" is quite welcome in my view.

[ Edited by: monkeyskull 2006-11-14 23:53 ]

One of the important things about film whether the movie sucks or not, whether it's universally accepted by the public and/or critics is that it reflects the popular tastes of society at the time of it's release, or at least what the filmmakers think the popular tastes are. This is one of the aspects of film studies, or studies in popular culture. Make no mistake about it 'Borat' was able to happen because 'Jackass' ALREADY happened. There's no confusion there at all. In the plainest of terms, this is what people like at this moment. This is what people want to wait on long lines for and spend their money on right now. And I'll bet good money that a large segment of those people neither care about or buy into any of the intellectual spin your putting on this film. They are there to see people humilated, guys wrestling naked, etc., etc. Just like the 'Jackass' audience. Lowest Common Denominator...period. I know. I'm one of the few in the world that doesn't like this movie, but it's not just the movie, it's where people's heads are at and where they're headed to. Most of entertainment these days has nothing to do with imagination, but more to do with judgement and voyeurism and that is f*cked! It's like a constant train wreck with an eternal line of rubber-neckers.

I think alot of people would like to beleive 'Borat' is satire, but satire on what? The way average people react when they are put in uncomfortable situations? Yes there were some pokes at American culture in the film (Pamela Anderson, the rodeo, the drunk frat guys). But please don't tell me this is 'thinking man's' comedy and a wall to wall expose on the ignorance of Americans, which by the way...I'm all for watching. Like I mentioned earlier, The Daily Show is good at that. Benny Hill isn't even a fair comparison. Where that is naughty, bawdy humor, 'Borat' is selfish baiting of unsuspecting people. Some of the people in this film could've been from any Western country. This film didn't have everything to do with just Americans. You want good, funny biting political satire and commentary on the dim-wittedness of the common American? Watch 'All In the Family'. That did everything that 'Borat' wants to do without all of the sub-mental shannanigans. 'Borat' just proves that people in entertainment are too LAZY to come up with a character like an Archie Bunker and would rather take the easy way out and appeal to the neanderthal in all of us.

After I posted this thread I saw some clips of Sacha Baron Cohen and his Ali G character. What I saw of him was funny and definitely clever. He is definitely a talented person. And even though I am obviously not crazy about the Borat character, Cohen has proved that he can succesfully transform himself into a very convincing alter ego/persona. But at the time I saw this film I didn't know that Cohen was Jewish or Ivy League. Now that I know, I'm not sure if that makes things better or worse. Gee...another rich kid with all of the advantages in the world who gets to go out and make fun of people and make more money off of it. Isn't that just fabulous? And what about the cavemen and women in the audience that DON'T know Cohen's ethnic/religious background and will never care to know or find out that he's Jewish? Pretty cool right? Just perpetuate that negativity. Brilliant!!

[ Edited by: donhonyc 2006-11-15 11:18 ]

That whole schtick of putting people in uncomfortable situations and laughing at their discomfort doesn't sit well with me. I haven't seen the Borat movie, but I've watched Cohen on HBO more than once. It didn't seem like it took very much talent to say off the wall crap to someone and watcht them squirm. I have to say that I'm amazed that the movie is doing as well as it's doing, and if I was judgemental I'd worry about our kids these days being reduced to the lowest common denominator of hostile, mocking humor and having no appreciation for the subtleties of a Dennis Miller or the creativity of a Monty Python, but I love Jackass and Jay and Silent Bob too, so who am I to judge?

"I saw a wino eating grapes...I said, Dude! You gotta wait!"
-- Mitch Hedburg

Where are the comedies like Cheers, Taxi and All in the family anymore? Those shows combined highly clever writing that was insightful, and always funny without focusing on the LCD.

I have never seen jackass, won't see Jackass, don't listen to Howard Stern or Tom Lycus, and I thought the movie Dogma was one of the stupidest films I have ever seen. I could not even finish it.

The only low brow comedy I have recently enjoyed was probably the 40 year old virgin, but then again I like anything with Catherine Keener in it.

The only low brow comedy I have recently enjoyed was probably the 40 year old virgin, but then again I like anything with Catherine Keener in it.

Yeah, I saw that film and though it was okay, if not a little full of itself. I didn't really find anything offensive in that film, although I thought the ending was corny as hell. Anyway yeah, I never really get offended THAT MUCH by anything, generally speaking, in entertainment. I can't stand alot of the mainstream personalities, but I'm not offended. The only thing offensive about them is their lack of talent.

On 2006-11-14 23:46, monkeyskull wrote:
For anyone not familiar with Cohen/Borat and on the fence about going to the movie, I'd search for "Borat" on YouTube and watch some clips from his HBO and BBC shows. ...

Cohen's work is not high brow and it's primary aim is simply to be funny -- but it is also immistakably satire. I tend to believe that exposing the ridiculousness of bigotry does more to mitigate it than any number of speeches and marches. Any film that does that and makes me laugh half as much as "Borat" is quite welcome in my view.

[ Edited by: monkeyskull 2006-11-14 23:53 ]

Here's an older interview of Sascha Baron Cohen on Letterman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10c0UoZvQI

here's an interesting article to add to the mix:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1113061borat1.html

On 2006-11-16 03:08, Tiki Chris wrote:
here's an interesting article to add to the mix:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1113061borat1.html

This poor slob. I don't know whether to feel bad fo him or not. I'm feeling...mmmm...NOT. However, do I feel he has grounds to sue 'Borat'? I would say yeah, but I don't know how much weight..no pun intended...it's going to hold in court. It does sound like he was a bit bamboozled. What's really going to kill it for him and his other frat friend is they say they were made 'to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do' or something like that. Of course, total nonsense. They should have approached it a different way, because they obviously get hammered on a regular basis. This guy should just go on the Subway diet and call it a day.

On 2006-11-15 09:28, donhonyc wrote:
Most of entertainment these days has nothing to do with imagination, but more to do with judgement and voyeurism and that is f*cked! It's like a constant train wreck with an eternal line of rubber-neckers.

I think that 99.9% or so of this reaction flows strictly from whether the file strikes you as funny or not. If it doesn't, it's tempting to pile on with a rapidly escalating set of concerns over Cohen and these people of today whose tastes are taking society to hell in a handbasket.

I will virtually guarantee you that if you find people like John Cleese, Rickey Gervais, Woody Allen, David Letterman, Stephen Wright, Jerry Seinfeld, George Carlin, or virtually any great working comedian, he or she will very much like "Borat" and the work of Cohen. Being that funny ain't easy, no matter how you go about it, and the pros respect top rate talent.

"I think that 99.9% or so of this reaction flows strictly from whether the file strikes you as funny or not. If it doesn't, it's tempting to pile on with a rapidly escalating set of concerns over Cohen and these people of today whose tastes are taking society to hell in a handbasket."

Nice try professor, but I have no idea what yr trying to say here. I'm not jumping on any bandwagons. "these people of today whose tastes are taking society to hell in a handbasket." Okay, yr making me laugh now. Who are 'these people of today'? Are they the distant cousins of 'these people of yesteryear'? Got news for you, that fact the 'Borat' is number 1 at the box office is futher testament that society already WAS going to hell in a handbasket.

"I will virtually guarantee you that if you find people like John Cleese, Rickey Gervais, Woody Allen, David Letterman, Stephen Wright, Jerry Seinfeld, George Carlin, or virtually any great working comedian, he or she will very much like "Borat" and the work of Cohen. Being that funny ain't easy, no matter how you go about it, and the pros respect top rate talent".

And...? It's supposed to be good because these comics might like it? Anyway......

On 2006-11-12 14:29, donhonyc wrote:
...I find putting regular, otherwise harmless people on the spot to be the fodder for your own comedy not cool. When something like The Daily Show pulls this kind of routine with somebody that deserves it, it's funny. I thought 'Borat' did this pretty well with the Frat Guys ...

Quoth Monkeyskull:
I think that 99.9% or so of this reaction flows strictly from whether the file strikes you as funny or not.

I have yet to see the flick, and I really don't have an opinion either way, but...

Why did you find the ridicule of "Frat Guys" acceptable when the rest of the film troubled you? I kinda get the vibe that Monkeyskull may have hit on something...

I have yet to see the flick, and I really don't have an opinion either way, but...

Why did you find the ridicule of "Frat Guys" acceptable when the rest of the film troubled you? I kinda get the vibe that Monkeyskull may have hit on something...

Ya know what? I just read Monkeyskull's last post followed by mine and I gotta say that I was a little TOO fired up about this when I wrote that. I looked at Monkeyskull's and agreed with it! Then I looked at my reply and was like 'jeez...calm down.'

Sorry about that Monkeyskull.

The thing about the Frat Guys in this movie was that they were in the role of the bad guy(s). Every story has to have a villian and they were it, so naturally I found that to be justified. They were making their own bed so...

As far as alot of the other people in the film, again I just see this as the equivilent of some prankster throwing a bucket of water or paint or whatever on an unsuspecting person, filming it and showing it to an audience and saying 'look at that! look at their reaction! I just threw a giant bucket of paint on them while they were wearing an expensive suit and they didn't know it was coming. Isn't that funny???!!!! Isn't it? Isn't it...hooray for me, I'm a big funny prankster, and they're just a lame ususpecting boob put here for our entertainment.

C'mon...grow-the-fuck-up.

[ Edited by: donhonyc 2007-01-03 22:03 ]

On 2007-01-03 22:02, donhonyc wrote:

boob put here for our entertainment.

now yer talkin'!

Borat was hilarious, an interesting take on the current society. It was people being honest, and sometimes that can be an ugly, embarrassing thing. Laughed my ass off.

Idiocracy was also a great movie. I found it disturbing because it backs up my feelings on how society will devolve in the future.

Allen Funt really gets my goat.

Ya know, I wanted to like the guy. I instantly knew what he was trying to do & thought, hey, this guy's got a smart,original, idea. He carries it off for awhile?...then, it's like, thats as far as he got w/the character. Then, it,s just Andrew Dice Clay in a new monkey suit. He resorts back to just being another "look at me" ass. Sad too, because if he really DID have the talent/depth of John Cleese or anyone of that level? It would have gone down a completely different path. [with some nice shrubbery!]