Beware of this seller:

This seller has recast my company SSN's original Brady tiki and has been selling it through various locations. He is a fraud and our people are currently looking into dealing with the situation. Please do not buy from this seller: http://tikitalk.astropad.com/index.php?s=brady+bunch Mahalo

Brings back those Tiki Toa days.
Where does the time go.

On 2008-11-24 20:07, Unga Bunga wrote:
Brings back those Tiki Toa days.
Where does the time go.

..don't worry..tiki toa is still among us...in the form of tiki central's own "kahu"....welcome back toa!!

Well, let's see.

TikiTalk says that the guy who originally did the piece was ripped off.
So are you the guy that is selling them there on TikiTalk or are you the guy that they're talking about as having taken the idea?

I'm certain of one thing: Hot Lava is a straight up kane who would never, ever be involved knowingly in any kind of scam whatsoever. So I'm inclined to believe him in almost all cases, unless it's something to do with a clock or a watch. In which case, I'm certain he doesn't know what they're for. :wink:

CoCo Joe just called and wants HIS tiki back!

I think I'll cast a few of these and undercut both you guys. $5.99 Brady Bunch Idol anyone?

No sheriff in town, right?
Buzzy Out!

Buzzy -- If you'll drill a hole in it and attach a string, you got a deal!

On 2008-11-25 14:33, arriano wrote:
Buzzy -- If you'll drill a hole in it and attach a string, you got a deal!

..for $5.99 i'll drill my own damn hole and provide my own string!!...yeesh! isn't it enough that buzzy is offering these at a huge discount without the hole and the string?? LOL

On 2008-11-25 08:26, pablus wrote:

Well, let's see.

TikiTalk says that the guy who originally did the piece was ripped off.
So are you the guy that is selling them there on TikiTalk or are you the guy that they're talking about as having taken the idea?

I'm certain of one thing: Hot Lava is a straight up kane who would never, ever be involved knowingly in any kind of scam whatsoever. So I'm inclined to believe him in almost all cases, unless it's something to do with a clock or a watch. In which case, I'm certain he doesn't know what they're for. :wink:

The original sculpt is ours. He recast our piece and is selling it on tiki talk. We have shut him down before. The statement made on Tiki Talk is false and actually the complete opposite. He bought one from us and recast it. Sure the Brady name is not the matter at hand. The sculpture is. It is illegal to reproduce an original sculpture in art form without consent from the artist. The original sculpt was done in a material called sculpey. it is then baked and hardened to mold. We still have the original baked piece. Not to mention photos of it being worked on. The match is undeniable. The only difference is the way he paints them. When an artist creates a piece that is "inspired by" but is still an original work of art, he or she is protected by law. The tiki used on the show is now considered an antique. The "design" is generic and public domain. Meaning, no one can claim rights to a "ku warrior" design. Although, original sculptures and paintings are protected. The seller has been contacted to remove this item. It is now out of our hands and in the hands of the law.

please to explain how this "sculpey" works . . .

so obscure you are.

[ Edited by: pdrake 2008-11-25 19:32 ]

On 2008-11-25 19:26, buddylove wrote:

The tiki used on the show is now considered an antique.

Actually, I'm pretty sure, it isn't, strictly by definition:

ANTIQUE: any work of art, piece of furniture, decorative object, or the like, created or produced in a former period, or, according to U.S. customs laws, 100 years before date of purchase.

On 2008-11-25 19:29, pdrake wrote:
please to explain how this "sculpey" works . . .

so obscure you are.

[ Edited by: pdrake 2008-11-25 19:32 ]

Sculpey is a polymer sculpting clay that never dries out, but when baked, becomes rock hard. You can even drill it and sand it. Great for small sculptures, jewelry etc.

On 2008-11-25 22:17, Haole'akamai wrote:

On 2008-11-25 19:26, buddylove wrote:

The tiki used on the show is now considered an antique.

Actually, I'm pretty sure, it isn't, strictly by definition:

ANTIQUE: any work of art, piece of furniture, decorative object, or the like, created or produced in a former period, or, according to U.S. customs laws, 100 years before date of purchase.

What I meant was, the "gift shop" tiki bought by the prop master to use on the show is no longer available, a rarity, a collectible. An "antique" does not necessarily have to be 100 years prior to. The actual piece used in the filming of the Brady episode was made in the 60's. It is now 2008 so I think we are safe to say that if you were to find a Coco Joe original (or such company) from that time period, one would consider it an antique :)

What I meant was, the "gift shop" tiki bought by the prop master to use on the show is no longer available, a rarity, a collectible. An "antique" does not necessarily have to be 100 years prior to. The actual piece used in the filming of the Brady episode was made in the 60's. It is now 2008 so I think we are safe to say that if you were to find a Coco Joe original (or such company) from that time period, one would consider it an antique :)

No, one would concider it a vintage collectible, but it is surely not an Antique! And yes you did rip off Coco Joe!!!!! Hope this helps.

[ Edited by: BambooLodge 2008-11-26 04:39 ]

No, one would concider it a vintage collectible, but it is surely not an Antique! And yes you did rip off Coco Joe!!!!! Hope this helps.

[ Edited by: BambooLodge 2008-11-26 04:39 ]

Ripping someone off would be taking an original and recasting it right off that piece such as our friend at Tiki Talk did. An original sculpture based on a generic "ku warrior" design is hardly ripping one off.

is sculpey dense?

On 2008-11-26 19:47, pdrake wrote:
is sculpey dense?

Sculpey is firm with a slight wax consistency to it. You can soften it up in your hands. The stuff you want to try is called Super Sculpey. You can use any type of tool on it and it can be smoothed out with a brush and Terpanoid. Before baking it of course.

I'm curious as to whether this "Brady Bunch Tiki" is an officially licensed product. Does it have anything to do with The Brady Bunch TV series, CBS Studios Inc. or King World Productions, Inc. ?

Buddylove,

This is Hot Lava of Tiki Talk – I appreciate your frustration with the situation, but I'm disappointed you didn't contact me directly at Tiki Talk to let me know your side of the story. We probably could have resolved this without all the drama. Now you've got three threads open on T.C. and are making vague legal threats against me. Uncool.

I want to make sure we're all clear on one thing: Tiki Talk is not "selling" this item and has nothing to do with the sale of this item. I've simply posted a link to the seller's email address and some information about the item, just the same as when I post about a new book available on Amazon.com or a new mug from Tiki Farm.

It's very easy to search the old postings on T.C. and "your" Brady Bunch tiki has been slightly controversial from the start. Since you've decided air this in a public forum, I'm sure you won't mind answering a few questions so we can put this issue to rest once and for all and come up with a solution that will make everyone happy:

• What is your current relationship with Silver Shampain Novelties? In 2004 you called it "your company." Now you're selling a new sculpt here and on eBay, but not through the Silver Shampain Novelties site. Odd.

• If you're selling a new sculpt (which is way better), why do you even care if someone is selling a knockoff of your old design? Your new one is clearly better. Promote the heck out of it and let the market work it out.

• It seems that every time anyone has a Brady Bunch tiki for sale, you claim authorship. BigBro remembers buying one from "a nice Rockabilly kid named Brian with a prop company," then points to your post from 2004 with your ordering info from Silver Shampain Novelties. Then you jump in a few days ago and claim that it was a recast of your piece, which makes it look like you're accusing yourself of ripping yourself off. Confusing...

• Do you realize that, in theory, it's as illegal for you to use the Brady Bunch name to sell your replica tikis as it is for someone to copy your design and sell it as their own. I'm not judging, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

I have no problem taking down the post at Tiki Talk. When I compare the sculpts, they do look nearly identical, and I think you have a case. The other guy had 6 of his whatever-the-origin tikis left at the time I put up that post and isn't going to be selling them again once they're gone, which they may be by now anyway. Like I said in the other thread, I'd be happy to promote your Brady tiki. It's great!

However, for the sake of disclosure, I'd like to say that when I contacted the other seller in early October, he told me that along with people making copies of his sculpture, another company had make a unique sculpture of the Brady tiki, but painted it brown instead of white/gray. That sounded like the Silver Shampain tiki to me and I took him at his word. You could at least entertain the idea that both of you created nearly identical tikis inspired by the show.

If you had a record of selling your tiki to the other guy, that would end the controversy. Or posted the photos of the original which you claim to have.

So that's the story from my side of the fence. I'll leave it up to you what happens from here.

Tiki Comrades,

I strongly suggest lighting up the fire pits tonight, followed by many passes of the sacred scorpion bowl, and ending with several sacrificial tiki god offerings (I would start with offering up of one of the pendants everyone seems to be getting so unbalanced over). Perhaps the gods will be merciful and forgive all this silly bickering over pieces of clay.

Trust Me... You DO NOT want to evoke the wrath of KU over this! Nothing gets him more worked up than lawyering up the place.

Hug Your Inner Tiki,

Tiki Atomica

Dear Hot Lava,

I would love to clear all this up publicly. First and foremost, I appreciate your concern with this issue. I merely posted your link but in no way was directing this to you. The seller was contacted directly. I didn't see any reason to contact you since I figured you were only posting his "ad" so to speak. If you don't mind, I'll answer each of your questions individually.

• "What is your current relationship with Silver Shampain Novelties? In 2004 you called it "your company." Now you're selling a new sculpt here and on eBay, but not through the Silver Shampain Novelties site. Odd."

A: I am co owner of the the company. A friend of mine and I started it back in 2002. Back in 2003 I did a sculpture of the tiki (the one in question). It became popular for a while and all of a sudden, It pops up on Ebay and Tiki Central. Painted grey. I keep seeing photos posted and hearing about it being sold at Tiki Cons and such. The seller you list is the same seller that was on ebay. I was never completely satisfied with that version so I decided a few months back to resculpt it. I did this for 2 reasons. 1. I wanted to upgrade it with more detail and make it more accurate. 2. My 2003 sculpt was being knocked off. I told my partner that I was only going to sell the new tiki personally and not through our company. That is why it is not on the site.

• "If you're selling a new sculpt (which is way better), why do you even care if someone is selling a knockoff of your old design? Your new one is clearly better. Promote the heck out of it and let the market work it out."

A: Thank you for your compliments. I have been an artist for many years and regardless of how big or small a matter is, you have to protect yourself. People argue the "rights" issue a lot. The bottom line is, to directly take someones work that they did and make money off of it is illegal. If you did a painting of that tiki and someone went and made knock off color copies of the painting and started selling them. That would be illegal. Same thing. Of course their is an element of pride thrown in the mix as well.

• "It seems that every time anyone has a Brady Bunch tiki for sale, you claim authorship. BigBro remembers buying one from "a nice Rockabilly kid named Brian with a prop company," then points to your post from 2004 with your ordering info from Silver Shampain Novelties. Then you jump in a few days ago and claim that it was a recast of your piece, which makes it look like you're accusing yourself of ripping yourself off. Confusing..."

A: I don't care if 100 people do "brady tikis" The only time I have said anything is when I have seen my first tiki sculpture recast and painted in that grey color. That posting you mention is the same one that was sold on ebay and on your blog. It is the same tiki BigBro owns. It was by the same seller!

• "Do you realize that, in theory, it's as illegal for you to use the Brady Bunch name to sell your replica tikis as it is for someone to copy your design and sell it as their own. I'm not judging, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy."

A: I can understand that. That is why I don't list them as "Brady" on ebay anymore. On here...sure I do. Maybe there is some hypocrisy on my end, but like I have said, a sculpture influenced by a generic design of an ancient warrior is hardly illegal. I never molded someones work. The work is mine. I would be just as happy selling it strictly as my version of a Ku Warrior and not even mention the Brady name. I list it as such for the fans. I have sold just as many not being listed that way. Does Barry Williams give a cut to the original Coco Joes owners every time he sells a recast of the original tv show tiki at his autograph appearances? LOL probably not.

"I have no problem taking down the post at Tiki Talk. When I compare the sculpts, they do look nearly identical, and I think you have a case. The other guy had 6 of his whatever-the-origin tikis left at the time I put up that post and isn't going to be selling them again once they're gone, which they may be by now anyway. Like I said in the other thread, I'd be happy to promote your Brady tiki. It's great!"

A: Honestly if he had not ripped me off and was selling his own version, I would say "right on"! I love tiki culture and the more the merrier! This was never about a compition. I would apreciate it if you did remove that listing. Thanks again for the kind words and if you do want to list, I would love to have my 2008 KU listed on your site.

Lastly, He told you about "getting ripped off" to cover his own ass. I confronted him about it on Ebay months ago. He got scared and pulled ever single one of his auctions down the same night! Like I have said I still have my actual clay sculpt of that tiki in question. The original. All the imperfections and dents, etc.. are all there. Holding them next to each other is plain and simple. He stole from me. I only wanted to post this to point something out to people. Not to open a debate. the fact are the facts. Again I never was poiting the finger at you HotLava. I love what you do over there at Tiki Talk. I hope I was able to clear some things up for your and everyonelse reading this. Take care

"Do you realize that, in theory, it's as illegal for you to use the Brady Bunch name to sell your replica tikis as it is for someone to copy your design and sell it as their own..." -Hot Lava-

"I can understand that. That is why I don't list them as "Brady" on ebay anymore. On here...sure I do." -buddylove-

I have no connections with any of the parties in this "dispute" but as a long time member of Tiki Central I really don't appreciate your product being sold "on here" under a name which you don't actually have a right to use (Brady Bunch). What's the difference between eBay and Tiki Central?

I saw your posts in the past and had assumed the Brady Bunch piece was a licensed item. Not caring for non-original mass produced pieces I would never have looked at your posts had you not started this thread.

I'm sure your original artwork would be more than welcome here, Tiki Central members are always looking for new pieces from new artists. Since you said you've sold many of the Ku pieces without mentioning the Brady Bunch connection I see no reason for you to mention it on Tiki Central if you haven't acquired the rights to do so.

I completely understand your outrage at direct copies being made from your actual work, I'd just be far more sympathetic if you weren't also taking advantage of someone else's work (in this case the Brady Bunch TV show).

That said, I've appreciated the general tone of your posts on this thread. You've behaved politely and given detailed answers to questions, even ones which were probably asked in jest.

maybe say it ( call it) in Pig Latin?

Adybray Ikitay !

If it weren't for bootleggers, there would be no tiki scene or lifestyle as we know it. Imagine if nobody reproduced KU warriors, or carved tikis for fear of infringing on the original carvers/artists work?

I'm not one really to complain about reproductions because, the more copied tikis(or likeness for the politically correct crowd) of tikis or tiki merchandise, the more vast my collection and hobby becomes.

I think a big point to this thread though, is that nobody currently manufacturing the "reproduction/bootlegged/knockoff/fascimile Brady Tiki" used on the Brady Bunch show has, NOR owns any rights, or any ties whatsoever to the studio who had the original tiki casting made for the show.

It is also apparent to me, that the original mold was in fact made with intent to immitate the resemblance of the TV show's idol, being produced exclusively to expolit the "Brady Bunch Tiki" and profit off of the copycat tiki. I'd say both parties are in the wrong, and the intent to profit from someone else's work(the studio) is obvious on both ends.

Lastly, I personally do think it is a novel and great idea, and have nothing against the artist(s) who brought it back, but the "Someone had to doit..." mentality doesn't necessarily justify the actions.

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2008-11-29 10:29 ]

On 2008-11-24 20:07, Unga Bunga wrote:
Brings back those Tiki Toa days.
Where does the time go.

Not to deviate from the present course of this thread, but in the interest of fairness, I have to ask; How the hell does any of this controversy pertain to Tiki Toa?

I never recall him selling anything, creating anything, nor claiming that someone was selling something of his creation. So, for him to be brought up in this thread just puzzles me.

On 2008-11-29 12:41, the75stingray wrote:

On 2008-11-24 20:07, Unga Bunga wrote:
Brings back those Tiki Toa days.
Where does the time go.

Not to deviate from the present course of this thread, but in the interest of fairness, I have to ask; How the hell does any of this controversy pertain to Tiki Toa?

I never recall him selling anything, creating anything, nor claiming that someone was selling something of his creation. So, for him to be brought up in this thread just puzzles me.

It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. But when it becomes unraveled, it will all make sense to you.

Oh nice. That answers my question.
I'll sleep better knowing that mindless, blabbering posts still prevail here.
Thanks.

Sheesh Louise. My post was not mindless at all and it is now obvious that some people need their hands held. And since you couldn't take the time to unravel it on your own I am duty bound to help you. So here it goes; The reference to Tiki Toa was not to mean that Tiki Toa was involved in any similar shenanigans (Shenanigans, yes, but not similar). Unga mentioned Tiki Toa as a reference point to a certain time on TC. Specifically early to mid /late 2004. During that time there were many many instances of finger pointing and claims of stolen designs as well as hurt feelings due to miscalculated intents. I'm not about to open That can of worms. Of course there were good things too. Nevertheless, the most notable facet of that era was that Tiki Toa was riding very high on a wave of notoriety.

When referring back to this specific era, sometimes it's just easier to say "Back in the Tiki Toa days." And the knowlegable listener will of course nod and say "ah, yes, Those were the days".

Hope that helps!

Ohhh... Okay. I see now.
So "Tiki Toa Days" refers to some unspecific (2004) period of time here in TC, such as referenced time periods such as "Feudal Japan" or "post-war" or something like that. I was unaware of that.

I simply did not see that connection between Toa's TC troubles and controversy over bad sellers and copied art, and especially with all of the stuff he had gone through during those years. I did not fully understand why someones name would be brought into such a thread, but I understand now.

I apologize Lugi, I was unaware of that and thank you for pointing out my ignorance.

How dare you question Barry Williams!!!!!!!! The tiki gods will frown upon that. And you may find a large spider in your bed like Peter did or was it Bobby?....AHHAHAHHAAA

To end all debates...here is the first version of the tiki I did that was sold on SSN (and later ripped off on Ebay and Tiki Talk) in it's natural Sculpey clay form after it was baked and molded. Front and back. The back shows the clay build up and the glue from attaching it to a piece of foam core prior to molding. End of story :)

Glad that is settled. Leads me to a question. Who owns the rights to long gone tiki restaurant/bars logos? The companies do not exist either.

I'm talking 30 years since some have been used? Do they revert to public domain at some point or do the rights remain with the original artist?

Buzzy,

I'll take one.

On 2009-05-02 18:17, FrankieGillette wrote:
Glad that is settled. Leads me to a question. Who owns the rights to long gone tiki restaurant/bars logos? The companies do not exist either.

I'm talking 30 years since some have been used? Do they revert to public domain at some point or do the rights remain with the original artist?

It all depends on weather or not the logo was trademarked, or at least registered with perhaps the Library Of Congress. That kind of thing goes on file permanently and can be dug up in court if need be. I can imagine some of those artist may not even be living anymore. In that case a family member can go after the rights and usually wins. I wish more Tiki restaurant/bars would re surface! The Royal Hawaiian down in Laguna Beach CA is still there. I think that place is going on 40+ years if I'm not mistaken.