Becahcomber ALERT

10 years ago a bunch of rubber duckies fell off a cargo ship going from China to Seatle. The flock has been floating around the ocean since then and is recently washing ashore in New England.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=33&u=/ap/20030711/ap_on_re_us/ducks_adrift

On 2003-07-11 14:50, suicide_sam wrote:
10 years ago a bunch of rubber duckies fell off a cargo ship going from China to Seatle.

The article goes on to say:

OK Martin, since you work in the ocean cargo business, can you please explain how these containers can fall off ships so easily? Aren't they tied down or something?

--cindy

can you please explain how these containers can fall off ships so easily? Aren't they tied down or something?

--cindy

I was wondering that too. Like that scene in "The Perfect Storm" where the containers go overboard - they didn't appear to be fastened down at all. I read this article earlier and the 10,000 number really shocked me. Do they usually sink or just break up?

On 2003-07-11 17:18, Tiki-bot wrote:

can you please explain how these containers can fall off ships so easily? Aren't they tied down or something?

--cindy

I was wondering that too. Like that scene in "The Perfect Storm" where the containers go overboard - they didn't appear to be fastened down at all. I read this article earlier and the 10,000 number really shocked me. Do they usually sink or just break up?

(sudden wave of excitement as normally worthless info becomes valuable)

Well, it's like this: Here's a picture of a modern container ship- biggest one on the water right now in fact:

Click here to see the image

Containers can get stacked about 5 high above deck. Only the bottom one or two in a stack are lashed to the deck. The rest (up to 50,000lbs each) are held in place by steel "twistlocks" at each corner. They look like this:

There not much bigger than a grapefruit. They work fine as long as the ship doesn't pitch more than about 20 degrees to the side. As big as these ships are, (the one in the picture above is about the same size and displacement as a modern aircraft carrier- if you stood it up on it's stern, it would be taller than the Eiffel Tower), they can still get tossed by strong seas. That's when they topple. Check it out:

Some of them wash ashore....

But- here's the bitch- many of them have enough air trapped inside that they float- about 2 feet under water. Try to imagine what a steel box with 40000 pounds of scrap metal inside can do to your hull when you hit it. And you can't see them coming. That's why large ships count on radar. They're very hard to fish out as well. They try to get most of 'em, especially if they have hazardous cargo inside. But most are fished out, and since 100s of millions ply the seas each year, it could be worse.

Mr. Esoteric Information,

Martin

BTW- The ship (APL China) with the crushed containers actually visits the Port of Oakland regularly. Yay!

[Edited by hanford to change the huge pic to a link]
[ Edited by: martiki6 on 2003-07-12 19:15 ]

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-07-12 19:24 ]

On 2003-07-12 19:12, martiki6 wrote:
Well, it's like this: Here's a picture of a modern container ship- biggest one on the water right now in fact:

Click here to see the image

I knew you'd know this stuff! 8)

Could this ship dock in Oakland, or are the channels too shallow? Could it fit in the Panama Canal?

--cindy

So that's why my Bamboo containers disapear once a year! They always say that customs siezed em' or they're lost on the water! (ya, floating around reaking havok! That's some gnarly chit!)

A friend of mine lost a steam locomotive that fell off a ship from China in a storm.Funny thing though-it sank straight to the bottom.

Thanks for all the info Martin - I feel like I just watched Modern Marvels :)
In fact, that series did a great show on shipping technology through the ages. They talked about those corner-lock thingies, but I didn't realize that's all they use on above-deck containers for ships at sea. Apparently working around the containers on the docks is one of the most hazardous jobs there is.

Speaking of rocking boats, I'm amazed at this pic I found at the National Archives last year:

I believe it's the USS Yorktown during WW2. Amazing to see a big ship like that get knocked around like a toy boat. (I'm pretty sure this is during transit and not after it's damage at Midway. It's one of a series of shots where it's nose-up, then down, etc.)

BTW, Martin, I'd KILL to get a tour of a container loading facility. Do you ever get (have) to do that?

Tiki-bot

[ Edited by: Tiki-bot on 2003-07-13 15:14 ]

Yikes...

On 2003-07-13 01:47, cynfulcynner wrote:

On 2003-07-12 19:12, martiki6 wrote:
Well, it's like this: Here's a picture of a modern container ship- biggest one on the water right now in fact:

Click here to see the image

I knew you'd know this stuff! 8)

Could this ship dock in Oakland, or are the channels too shallow? Could it fit in the Panama Canal?

--cindy

Sorry about the uber-jpeg, Hanford. I thought it was dramatic.

Well, that ship (the OOCL Shenzen) won't fit in Oakland just yet. All those new cranes that you've seen coming in under the Golden Gate are designed for ships just like that. That is, they can reach across the width of the ship. The Shenzen is 17 or 18 containers wide. So that part is OK. But Oakland isn't deep enough to handle these ships yet. They require a port about 50 feet deep. Oakland is around 40. So they do fit at the Port of Long Beach/Los Angleles. Oakland is preparing to dredge to meet the requirement, but it's a sticky situation environmentally. The Port really has to do it to remain competitive and keep the price on imported goods down. (i.e. so you don't have to truck things up from LA). The problem is that the Port of Oakland sits on an old military base, and a lot of the extremely nasty chemicals they once used are in the seabed. Dredging might release them back into the bay. Ironically, using these giant ships is better for the environment because they are more fuel effecient and you just need fewer on the water.

The Shenzen is just over 8000TEU, which means it can carry over 8000 twenty foot containers. Serious business. That's about 160,000,000 pounds of cargo.

These ships and the giant cranes that load them are called "Post-Panamax", meaning they are (way) too big for the Panama Canal. The largest that go through the canal are about 4600TEU, and those call Oakland all the time. Here's some cool pix of them going through one of the locks in the canal. There are literally inches on each side.

Pretty neat stuff.

On 2003-07-14 16:21, martiki6 wrote:
Well, that ship (the OOCL Shenzen) won't fit in Oakland just yet. All those new cranes that you've seen coming in under the Golden Gate are designed for ships just like that. That is, they can reach across the width of the ship.

Yeah, I remember when those cranes were delivered. From the beach I could see them docked offshore. Even at low tide they barely cleared the bridges.

These ships and the giant cranes that load them are called "Post-Panamax", meaning they are (way) too big for the Panama Canal.

So, they're only practical for shipments between the West Coast and Asia?

Here's the link to the Panama Canal's webcam, where you can see the ships going through the locks:

http://www.pancanal.com/eng/photo/camera-java.html

Why am I interested in this stuff? I see those container ships every day from Ocean Beach and the Bay Bridge, and I've seen way to many episodes of "Modern Marvels." 8)

Hey, this is really cool stuff, guys. I've never seen pics like these. I used to work for an ocean import broker and my big account was Montgomery Ward (at that time the 2nd largest importer to Oakland). Every so often a container or two were lost, but usually it was a whole lot at once in some huge storm. Those pics are kind of sobering. I remember "losing" a Dryers container once due to a malfunctioning refrigeration system. I never did learn how in the hell they got rid of the melted contents. It wasn't a big deal until U.S. Customs let it sit for about five days on the Oakland docks. And I still don't get why ice cream (or its' components) were being imported (I was young and didn't ask a lot of questions).

On 2003-07-14 23:28, [email protected] wrote:
...I still don't get why ice cream (or its' components) were being imported (I was young and didn't ask a lot of questions).

Ohhh, I think I know why!:)

On 2003-07-13 15:12, Tiki-bot wrote:
Apparently working around the containers on the docks is one of the most hazardous jobs there is.

BTW, Martin, I'd KILL to get a tour of a container loading facility. Do you ever get (have) to do that?

Well, the danger has been a bit exaggerated. It's more dangerous in the US because of the lack of modern technology and poor efficiency. Carelessness leads to accidents as well. It's not exactly like being a cop in Oakland or a firefighter or something. But, yeah, a container can fall on your head. Just like a driver can jump the median on the 280 and kill you. Life is a dangerous place. Believe me, they are HANDSOMELY compensated for their work on the west coast. I'll leave it at that. Get me drunk if you want a real rant. (But you probably don't)

I have been on a few vessel tours and it's amazing. Watching the cranes work and toss these 50000 pound boxes around like they'e Lego blocks is very impressive. I used to take customers out on them. Nothing like standing on the deck between the rows as they are lowering them into the hold 35 feet down in front of you- and having this 40' long swinging box clang against the bulkhead about 10 inches from your face. Scary as hell but cool. We would then go up to the bridge, meet the captain (who always offered everyone a beer) and look out from about 12 stories above the water at the view. The quarters for officers are prety nice, and they usually have a nice lounge (some with draft beer). Most large container ships have a pool on board as well. On those ships that I posted going through the canal, it's on the roof behind the bridge- they pump up seawater and let it warm in the sun. The engine rooms are pretty phenominal as well. Most of the ships basically have a straight 8 engine. It's just three stories high and the cylinder heads are 5 feet across.

I'd love to make an excuse to take people on a tour, because it really is fascinating, but A) I no longer work for a ship owner, so I don't really have the option and B) They don't really have tours anyway since 9/11.

Sorry to be long winded.

[i]On 2003-07-14 17:29, cynfulcynner wrote:

So, they're only practical for shipments between the West Coast and Asia?

Yes, the really big ships work in two trade lanes- West Coast to Asia (The busiest trade in the world is imports from the Far east to the US west coast), and the Far East to North Europe trade. The Suez is wide enough for these ships.

Proud to be part of one of the greatest thread hijackings in TC history. Did someone say something about rubber ducks? :)

[ Edited by: martiki6 on 2003-07-15 08:21 ]

Interesting stuff Martin. Thanks for posting the pics! I think a tour would have been cool too -- too bad that won't happen. Just think, at one time, tons of Orchids of Hawaii mugs were once being loaded onto these ships to make their trip to America. That Orchids mug you hold in your hand traveled farther than some of us.