Interesting Martin Denny Discovery about the Exotica Album

First: This post may get into a level of minutia that will bore some of you. But the geeks among us may dig this!

Second: This may be old news to some of you, but it was news to me. I couldn't find this on the interwebs when I searched.

Here goes:

Many of you know that Martin Denny's first album "Exotica" was first released in mono. The stereo version came out a couple of years later. By all accounts, it was a re-record, because the first was apparently recorded in mono. The subtle and obvious differences in arrangements, performances, and sonics bear this out.

Here's where it gets interesting.

I play in an exotica group called Stolen Idols, and we are learning the tune "Ah Me Furi" from this album (side 2, track 4 on the LP; track 10 on the CD). I was listening carefully to the original version when I was charting it out, and just for yuks, put on the stereo version for a comparison.

The stereo version is noticeably different from the get-go; it starts out differently, and the intro on the stereo version is longer, containing 12 extra bars.

When I started listning to the main part of the tune, however, I noticed these striking similarities: Flubbed notes in the same places, and identically-phrased melodic lines.

Just for fun, I loaded both the mono and stereo "Ah Me Furi" into protools, hacked the extra bars out the stereo, and synched them up.

Lo and Behold - THEY ARE THE VERY SAME RECORDING! They synch up perfectly, until they inevitably get out of phase (from speed variation between the machines).

Afterwards, just for fun, I put on headphones, and listened to each of the "Exotica" album tracks in mono and then in stereo. As stated, some of the tracks are noticeably different, but I noticed distinct sonic and performance similarities with "Waipo" and "Return to Paradise." I loaded these into Protools and synched the mono and stereo versions of each. Aside from the ocean sounds at the top and ending, "Waipo" also is THE VERY SAME RECORDING in mono and stereo, synching up perfectly.

The mono and stereo "Return to Paradise" did not synch, but because of the sonic similarities, I strongly suspect that the stereo is an alternate take from the sessions from the original album. It is even possible that sections of it were spliced into the finished mono master, but I didn't spend that much time with it.

So here's the question:

If two, possibly three, tunes were recorded in stereo for the first Exotica album, was the whole album recorded in stereo? Why bother to re-record it a few years later?

I have two theories:

1 - It was common in the early days of stereo to use separate sets of equipment to record sessions in both mono and stereo. Because of the learning curve with the new technology, it is possible that errors were made in the stereo recording and most of it was unsalvageable. It is also possible that stereo equipment malfunctioned.

or, more likely:

2 - "Exotica" in mono is a very heavily (and sometimes sloppily) edited album. It is likely that so much tape was hacked up in creating finished, useable mono masters that re-assembling the elements to make a stereo album was difficult if not impossible. It was probably cheaper and easier to have a rehearsed, working combo come in and bang out the album than it was to wade through all the original tape and re-assemble it.

So there you have it folks. Has this been documented elsewhere?

I'm gonna have to agree with your 2nd therory. I've never seen anyone go into depth about the audio quality of Martin Denny. I thought I was an audiophile. Right On DUDE!!!!!!!!

Verrrry interesting OYB.

Man, you're in geek overdrive mode on this one. Bravo !

I LOVE this kinda deep-down discussion! THANKS! I'll pull both LPs and have a listen myself over the weekend.

~glen leslie

Hmmmm... now for the important part: what cocktail should I enjoy while doing these audiophile studies?

Fun read. I haven't geeked out about audio that much since the 80s when I used to read Audio and Stereophile mags regularly. Personally, I'm still waiting for more 5.1 surround exotica.

On 2009-02-27 09:58, GatorRob wrote:
Fun read. I haven't geeked out about audio that much since the 80s when I used to read Audio and Stereophile mags regularly. Personally, I'm still waiting for more 5.1 surround exotica.

I've toyed with the idea of doing my stuff in 5.1. If ever there was a genre perfect for 5.1, it is Exotica.

I just don't know if there is enough of an audience for 5.1 music.

On 2009-02-27 10:53, tikiyaki wrote:

On 2009-02-27 09:58, GatorRob wrote:
Fun read. I haven't geeked out about audio that much since the 80s when I used to read Audio and Stereophile mags regularly. Personally, I'm still waiting for more 5.1 surround exotica.

I've toyed with the idea of doing my stuff in 5.1. If ever there was a genre perfect for 5.1, it is Exotica.

I just don't know if there is enough of an audience for 5.1 music.

I'm set up for 5.1, bring it on!

nice work - also remember different tape qualities and machine speed play into this. As well as if they had different engineers as everyone has their own technique.

but always fun to play with pro tools like this when you can!

An interesting subject. I too love to geek-out on the technical side of things sometimes. Another EVERY interesting mono vs. stereo mystery that isn't a Martin Denny subject, but related. The rare (and costly) Augie Colon album "Sophisticated Savage" has mystery about it. I once saw a website that listed every single LP release catalog number for Liberty Records. In that listing was a mono & a STEREO catalog number for "Sophisticated Savage" which was produced by Denny. To date, a stereo version has never been seen ANYWHERE. Here's where it gets interesting; on one of the Ultra-Lounge CD series discs, is a track from the "Sophisticated Savage" album that is IN STEREO.

Additionally, on Colon's second album "Chant of the Jungle", which was released in stereo, there is an obviously MONO tune included.

There are many instances of early stereo recordings that came out on LP only in mono at the time. Some early Blue Note stereo sessions include Art Blakey's "Orgy in Rhtyhm" and Sabu's "Palo Congo." Both came out in stereo during the CD era, but up until then were only available in mono.

That was probably the case with the Augie Colon album. It may have been assigned a stereo catalog number, but for whatever reason they decided to nix the stereo LP.

what do most hardcore fans of Exotica Prefer, stereo or Mono?

as for surf.
most hard core fans of the 60's recordings,
they want mono,
as the stereo is usually not real stereo recording,
but studio trickery, and some parts get lost,
or are hard to hear in the stereo mix.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

On 2009-02-27 18:25, bigtikidude wrote:
what do most hardcore fans of Exotica Prefer, stereo or Mono?

This is an interesting question. I think some of the early Les Baxter LPs in MONO sound sensational. Now, come to think of it, I'm not sure if all of them are available in stereo, but in any case, Capitol did mono really, really well, so I don't feel "robbed" or anything picking up mono copies. You can hear really deep into the mix. But some of the early Capitol stereo records unfortunately didn't hold up well, and have a weird groove distortion. Or at least that's what I've found.

This is an interesting question. I think some of the early Les Baxter LPs in MONO sound sensational. Now, come to think of it, I'm not sure if all of them are available in stereo, but in any case, Capitol did mono really, really well, so I don't feel "robbed" or anything picking up mono copies. You can hear really deep into the mix. But some of the early Capitol stereo records unfortunately didn't hold up well, and have a weird groove distortion. Or at least that's what I've found.

Agree about Capitol mono. Still, I prefer mono in general - if we're talking about the mono/stereo era. It almost always sounds fuller than stereo, which was a new technoogy.

Mono LPs in general sound better than stereo, but you have to play them back in mono to get the best sound. You can use a mono switch, mono cartridge, or a mono Y converter available from radio shack for like five bucks.

On 2009-03-01 06:14, OnyaBirri wrote:

Agree about Capitol mono. Still, I prefer mono in general - if we're talking about the mono/stereo era. It almost always sounds fuller than stereo, which was a new technoogy.

Mono LPs in general sound better than stereo...

Yeah, I agree, a lot of those LPs from the early stereo days sound fuller in mono, and often better. And depending on the music, made for a better listening experience. There are some labels that did stereo well: Mercury's Perfect Presence Sound Series and RCA's Living Stereo often kicked ass. And some of the Command stuff is well done.

[ Edited by: I, Zombie 2009-03-01 06:36 ]

Regarding the Mono/Stereo comparison, methinks the Mono sounds fuller to you because what WOULD be the left and right channel signals are now 3db louder in mono, or conversely 3db quieter in Stereo.
A Mono record played with a stereo styli will sound TWICE as loud (3db).

Actually, mono records sound better played in mono because surface noise and groove distortion are reduced.

I have a classic Bill Evan's CD, and the liner notes clearly state that they had two systems running at the same time, one mono and one stereo, when they were recording. That's why the version on "autumn leaves" they used on the album was mono. but the other tracks were stereo. The mono version of that track had better playing on it.

According to Martin Denny The first Exotica album was recorded at Webley Edwards' Studio, Honolulu, Hawaii in December 1956. It was recorded on two track monaural. Bob Lang was the engineer. Session line-up was Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, John Kramer, Augie Colon and Harold Chang. They recorded the entire album in three hours and 25 minutes. The album was released in May 1957.

They re-recorded the entire album in stereo in 1958 at Liberty Records' Studio in Hollywood, with a reorganized group featuring Julius Wechter on vibes and Roy Harte on drums.

According to Denny, "stereo was quickly becoming very popular and Liberty felt that a lot of people would really want the album in stereo. I'm partial to the mono recording. It has the original spark, the excitement, the feeling that we were breaking new ground".

I'm going to agree with Martin Denny here.

Cheers and Mahalo,
Jeff

Jeff, the aural evidence speaks for itself. I'm sure MD couldn't remember forty years later if two or three tunes on the stereo album are from the original session.

This fact does not conflict with MD's account; it simply goes to a deeper level of detail. The stereo image on the three tracks I described would fit most definitions of "two-track monaural," in that two of the instruments are on one track and three are on the other, easily collapsing to mono.

As stated previously, both "Waipo" and "Ah Me Furi" synch up exactly when the mono is panned left and the combined stereo is panned right - they produce an identical mono center image.

I will be happy to e-mail you mp-3 files demonstrating this.

As stated, becuase "Return to Paradise" has production similarities to the aforementioned tunes, I suspect it is from the same session.

However, "Waipo" and "Ah Me Furi" clearly are the same recording on both the mono and stereo album.

[ Edited by: OnyaBirri 2009-03-05 18:03 ]

Wow! Very interesting read!

This is truly geeky. And I read every word of it. Nice investigative work.

Where is Tom Dowd when you need him!

(I should add, he died a while back)