"Walt Disney, the man behind the myth" .

We just watched this 2 hour program spanning Walts life. Incredible documentary on CNBC. It will air again tonight at 9 pm pacific time. Set your Tivo. Great stuff folks.

Thanks for the heads up. I have my DVR set to record it tonight.

Every now and again, someone takes a poll or just asks the question "who is/was THE most influential person ever?" Some folks will choose a politician, some will say Jesus, Mohamed, the pope or the like. I always answer "Walt Disney!" Yet he never tops the polls. I am still convinced it's him. Who in the world DOESN'T at least know who Mickey Mouse is?

Bear

On 2011-05-05 21:20, Brudda Bear wrote:

Every now and again, someone takes a poll or just asks the question "who is/was THE most influential person ever?" Some folks will choose a politician, some will say Jesus, Mohamed, the pope or the like. I always answer "Walt Disney!" Yet he never tops the polls. I am still convinced it's him. Who in the world DOESN'T at least know who Mickey Mouse is?

Actually the character of Mickey Mouse was created by Ub Iwerks NOT Walt Disney.

On 2011-05-05 22:00, JOHN-O wrote:
Actually the character of Mickey Mouse was created by Ub Iwerks NOT Walt Disney.

If you use wikipedia as your reference, then...

Actually the character of Mickey Mouse was CO-created by Ub Iwerks AND Walt Disney.

Splitting hairs I know, especially for a general tiki thread, but what the heck.

-Randy

John-O,

Yes, I know all about Ub, and that he probably did ALL the principle drawing on "Plane Crazy" (the very first Mickey Mouse cartoon) over a period of 2 days (an insane number of individual drawings). Ub designed Mickey after Walt described to Ub the kind of character he wanted and had him rework sketches of a mouse Walt made on a train ride back out to Los Angeles with Lillian. I'm well aware that Ub was a valued creative contributor for the studio, especially in those early days. But the fact remains that Mickey was Walt's idea, also it was Walt's studio, and Mickey was Walt's property. Walt made sure his studio (which was Walt) had the full rights to all of the characters it produced, after Charles Mintz screwed Walt out of Oswald the Lucky Rabbit and most of his animators the way he did, could you really blame him?

Be sure to check out Walt Disney's page as well. Pay attention to this passage in particular;

After losing the rights to Oswald, Disney felt the need to develop a new character to replace him. He based the character on a mouse he had adopted as a pet while working in his Laugh-O-Gram studio in Kansas City. Ub Iwerks reworked the sketches made by Disney so the character was easier to animate. However, Mickey's voice and personality was provided by Disney until 1947. In the words of a Disney employee, "Ub designed Mickey's physical appearance, but Walt gave him his soul."

Who created Mickey is far less important than the fact that Walt's studio disseminated that little guy all over the world and created a mania for the mouse, fan clubs sprang up all over the place, many with members sporting homemade Mickey costumes. I believe the influence of the mouse is even greater today than it was then.

Bear

It was Mickey Mouse that inspired (or anti-inspired) Ed Roth to create Rat Fink..

Mickey Mouse Vs. Rat Fink

On 2011-05-06 09:58, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
It was Mickey Mouse that inspired (or anti-inspired) Ed Roth to create Rat Fink..

Woops, there's that other create debate - Ed Roth vs. Stanley Mouse as the creator / originator of Rat Fink. Some people say Roth stole the character outright, some say he just popularized it. Oh well, maybe it's better to just ignore the word create.

-Randy ("Mr. Argumentative Off-topic")

GROG missed the Disney show, but GROG wanted to see it. No DVR (caveman).

And to continue with the topic derail of who created what cartoon character, Bugs Bunny got his name when Bugs Bardaway drew a model sheet of a cartoon rabbit and somebody had labeled it "Bug's Bunny" because he had drawn it. The name stuck.

Time to make a series out of the Grog character, I say!

A cartoon about a caveman---who'd wanna watch that?

Well I'm sure Jack Kirby, Stanley Mouse, and Ub Iwerks are all kvetching together in heaven about how they were cheated in life. :)

BTW, Jack Kirby (unlike Walt Disney) actually created TIKI characters.

Sorry for the derail (GROG started it !!) but SOMEONE had to add some Tiki relevance here (on the General Forum !!) Ha, ha. :D

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-05-06 12:01 ]

And what about the man who invented the super hero genre by drawing Superman: Joe Shuster !!?

He had to make a living by drawing saucy S&M scenes for smut books!:

(I have many more racy examples, but most refrain from posting them here, because this thread has already gone too far with non-Tiki related material :D )

Despite the derail, this is still a fascinating thread. Thank you!

Mahalo

Hail to Mouse Ears!

McTiki

On 2011-05-06 12:46, bigbrotiki wrote:
And what about the man who invented the super hero genre by drawing Superman: Joe Shuster !!?

He had to make a living by drawing saucy S&M scenes for smut books!:

(I have many more racy examples, but most refrain from posting them here, because this thread has already gone too far with non-Tiki related material :D )

Well start your racy, saucy, S&M thread man.. Don't leave us hanging bro..

On 2011-05-06 13:08, cvcgolf wrote:

On 2011-05-06 12:46, bigbrotiki wrote:
And what about the man who invented the super hero genre by drawing Superman: Joe Shuster !!?

He had to make a living by drawing saucy S&M scenes for smut books!:

(I have many more racy examples, but most refrain from posting them here, because this thread has already gone too far with non-Tiki related material :D )

Well start your racy, saucy, S&M thread man.. Don't leave us hanging bro..

Nope, no doing. Here's where you can get an eyeful of it:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Identity-Supermans-Co-creator-Shuster/dp/0810996340/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304712748&sr=1-1

How did we get from TIKI to DISNEY to this again? Stop it I say...

Since I have to assume that everyone would love to read more picky argumentative stuff from me, here goes:

• Fred Flintstone is not a caveman - he's got a nice suburban house, and it's eco-friendly to boot. I'd like to see today's "advanced" green thinkers try to match Fred Flintstone's carbon footprint.

• Stanley Mouse isn't dead! He's even got a blog.

• Hate to use the word create again, but fans of the Enchanted Tiki Room would probably dispute the claim that Disney didn't create any tiki characters! OK, if you want to get into the details of who specifically created what, there's Rolly Crump and Marc Davis, but anyway that's a whole nother thing. As for Walt Disney, he's in a class all his own as a creator and visionary.

-Randy

Well since we're discussing "the man behind the myth", is anyone familiar with this book?...

I read it about 15 years ago, it discusses the "dark side" of Uncle Walt, including his alleged anti-semitism and how he worked as an FBI informant during the McCarthy era. Many have dismissed the book as a hatchet job.

There might be some truth in it however. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia...

**Disney was a founding member of the anti-communist Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals. In 1947, during the early years of the Cold War, Disney testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), where he branded Herbert Sorrell, David Hilberman and William Pomerance, former animators and labor union organizers, as Communist agitators. All three men denied the allegations. Sorrell testified before the HUAC in 1946 and there was insufficient evidence to link him to the Communist Party.

Additionally, Disney accused the Screen Actors Guild of being a Communist front, and charged that the 1941 strike was part of an organized Communist effort to gain influence in Hollywood.**

Was any of this covered in the 2-hour documentary ??

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-05-06 14:30 ]

As Ward Kimball once told a group of Cal Arts students, "It's over. Walt's dead. You missed it."

John-O derailed the thread with his remark about Ub Iwerks. Don't go blaming GROG for something that your fault!

You posted before GROG posted the above. John-O making some sort of effort to right his wrong and get thread somewhat back on topic.

GROG miss Tiki-Kate

[ Edited by: GROG 2011-05-06 14:34 ]

This train never derailed, it was on the wrong track to begin with! :)

On 2011-05-06 14:27, JOHN-O wrote:

A bunch of crap.

I thought politics weren't allowed on this forum? I call "Shenanigans!"

Back on topic and keeping with the spirit and intent of the forum;

Bear
And for JOHN-O*, a dancing banana!*

Thanks for the dancing banana, Brudda Bear. :)

Sorry if my post shattered your visions of Uncle Walt, but dude when did Mr. Disney become such a sacred cow here on Tiki Central ?? Yes, I will admit that the Enchanted Tiki Room was probably the key childhood memory that inspired the latest generation of So CA Tiki Revivalists (since none of us could drink in Tiki bars). Actually though I never made it into that attraction as a child.

So in the spirit of Uncle Walt, and in the spirit of the politically incorrect "shenanigans" of Tiki culture, let me share with you my poster of the "Disneyland Memorial Orgy"...

In keeping with the "cartoonists who got screwed over in life" sub-plot of this thread (which can't be derailed according to the Bigbro), it was done by the late great Wally Wood for an underground newspaper in 1967. Mr. Wood was probably the 2nd greatest comic book artist after Jack Kirby, yet he died by his own hand in 1981, forgotten and of failing health in a small Van Nuys apartment. :(

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2011-05-07 08:31 ]

Aaaah, what a classic, I had forgotten all about it! I had that poster in B&W as a teenager in the 70s, when I was collecting American underground comics. The above version was digitally colorized in the 2000s, I like the B&W better. Wally Wood did a whole series of very cool "classic comic" porn: http://wallywoodart.blogspot.com/2009/02/gang-bang.html

Nowadays there are tons of web sites that do that (..so I hear :D ), but back then it was pretty outrageous, and hard to find. I knew someone who knew him, he lived (and died, I guess) in a house at the end of Franklin Ave, caddy corner from Wattles Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattles_Mansion

But maybe we can throw the track switch to direct us on a Tiki track in this thread:

I would like to hear more about Walt's affinity to Tiki, and the alleged fact that he used to frequent the Anaheim Royal Hawaiian, and Kono Hawaii - both in the vicinity of Disneyland:

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2011-05-07 10:40 ]

Damn, I was just letting you know the show was going to reair again . What a shitstorm !

And don't forget, Eli (or Ely, as bigbro prefers) Hedley, gandpappy of Bamboo Ben and tiki pioneer, had a store in Adventureland for many years.

Yes you're right Tiki-Ray. You started something very positive and happy, and John-O keeps bringing all this negative stuff to the thread. Who's the bad guy here?

On 2011-05-07 12:09, GROG wrote:
Who's the bad guy here?

Peg-leg Pete !!

He was always the bad guy.

I've never posted these images... i guess now is the time.

I happened to know the artist (not Walt) that designed the Tiki Disney line in '07?? for the 'disney-store' who where a sole entity at the time.

he recommended me to sculpt a display piece for the presentation of their launch of the 'line'.
he sent me his original sketch and a 'real-palmwood' Tiki Mickey came to life... not quite like Pinocchio... but you get the idea.

They toyed with casting this guy as well as others, but nothing ever happened with it

these 'big-money' jobs always seem to fall apart... you bid the job low to smooze the client who need a deal to pitch the idea and... you just end-up with that one job you under bid.

but somebody has a great piece in ther garage or what ever... Disney Store went under with the economy in '08ish(???)

[ Edited by: crazy al 2011-05-08 11:41 ]

I liked the Disney store, my kitchen if full of Rattatouie items and some Disney Tiki dinerware.

As a former Disneyland cast member and Imagineering fanatic, writing a story on Walt Disney for the latest issue of Tiki Magazine was both wonderful and difficult. Wonderful because I got the chance to talk about one of the most inspiring people in my life, and discuss why Walt is so influential on our appreciation and interpretation of Tiki. Difficult because there was so much more I would have liked to say, but I only had two thousand words to say it. Besides, it's Tiki Magazine, so I didn't want to veer too far off the Enchanted path.

I hope you all enjoyed the article. Don't think for a second that my rose-colored glasses (which I wear a little too often) completely obscure some of the rumors about Walt and his beliefs. I've heard or read about them, too. True or not, they have nothing to do with the things he created that WE LOVE.

To do research for this story, I was lucky enough to spend a considerable amount of time talking to former Imagineers, as well as someone who knew Walt personally, Alice Davis. Alice was one of the first women Imagineers, and is responsible for most of the costuming of the Audio-Animatronic figures in many of the classic Park attractions, including Pirates. (If you have the hots for The Redhead in that attraction, thank Alice.) Alice was also married to Marc Davis, one the main creative forces behind the Tiki Room and Pirates. Alice and Marc have one of the most extensive collections I've ever seen of Papua New Guinea art in their home. (I use the present tense, but Marc passed away years ago.) I asked Alice if their collection inspired Walt in his Tiki-quest. She said no. I asked her if he went to Tiki bars and she said he might have, but he really preferred whiskey. What she DID know is that Walt liked bringing what was current to his audience and giving it to them at the highest possible quality. He also had an uncanny knack for knowing what the public would like well before they did. That's one of the things that makes a visionary. Doing a Tiki restaurant or attraction in Disneyland made a lot of sense in 1963. How wonderful that is still makes sense. Everything worthwhile really does revolve back around, doesn't it?

I think we all want to know what that "Ah-ha!" moment was in Walt's life that made him push the button on creating Tiki and exotica in Disneyland. From what I gathered, it was a combination of what was going on in popular culture, along with being inspired by some of his True-Life Adventure films. I'm sure he went to a few Tiki bars in Los Angeles, since they were all over the place back then and very popular with the Hollywood crowd. I'm sure he enjoyed himself there. Kevin Kidney sent me a photo of a small Tiki that Walt kept on his office desk, although it was a gift from some foreign dignitary. There is another photo I was sent of Walt drinking a cocktail on the beach in Waikiki in 1938. Another photo shows him with the Mouseketeers, all wearing leis. He apparently liked the tropical stuff. But, essentially, he was a farmer's son from Missouri, who did something extraordinary with his life...and we have reaped the benefits of that since 1955 (the year Disneyland opened).

And now, Trader Sam's is about to open at the Disneyland Hotel. Much as I wish the Tahitian Terrace would be recreated in Adventureland, at least there's something new and Tiki happening near Disneyland again. I'll see you all there.

Aloha for now,
Kari

[ Edited by: tangaroa-ru 2011-05-18 21:53 ]