Bad Drinks All Around/Where To Get a Good One

I'd been thinking of bringing up this subject, then Feelin' Zombified wrote this in another thread:

"With all the hype about cocktail culture and every other Food TV show including drink segments, no one seems to really care about making a proper drink anymore... or have respect for those who can."

Getting lousy drinks when out on the town is a frequent grumble of mine. This past year I did more drinking out than I had ever drank before and from my experience it seems the skilled cocktail maker is nearly extinct.
Often when drinking out I sit at the bar and watch the bartenders do their thing. In general what I see is pretty sloppy work with drinks going out that I doubt are very good.
Apparently some bartenders are proud of their half assed approach. In his Drinks column in the January GQ (The Company gets the magazine free and I'll read pretty much any free magazine, OK?) bartender/writer Toby Cecchini describes the High School Girlfriend, a "girlie" drink he created "...because I'm a serious drinks snob and it was my way of taking a swipe at those who would order such a monstrosity..." Nice to know that creating a lousy drink is what some bartenders have in mind. Apparently the drink had it's fans and, after having served it for a time "Eventually, I tasted one..." Great, he not only created a drink he thought'd be crummy but he didn't even try it until it proved sort of popular. To his credit the gist of Cecchini's column was to tell those that pass on "girlie" drinks they're missing out on a lot of good drinks. And he's a pretty good writer.
As for bad drinks at the bar there's also the alcohol content issue. A lot of fancy drinks can be pretty much booze free. It's easy to get away with when using cheapo mixers and some fruit juice. And if it's not the intent of the establishment it's the sloppy workmanship of the bartender.
I no longer expect to get a good mixed drink out on the town. If I want to get a buzz I stick to wells and beers. Otherwise I've sort of come to appreciate the bad drink for its crumminess.

That spiel done, where are the good joints to drink in your town? Thanks to weirduncletiki's mention of it I went to Noodles at the Bellagio in Las Vegas and had the best exotic drinks I've ever payed for. Most of us seem to travel a fair amount and it'd be useful to know where the good watering holes are. (Unfortuantely I have no reccomendations for Seattle. But my research continues.)

[ Edited by: woofmutt on 2004-02-16 10:53 ]

On 2004-02-16 00:05, woofmutt wrote:
Unfortuantely I have no reccomendations for Seattle. But my research continues.

I have one! On Tuesday nights at Fu Kun Wu in Ballard, Ivan bartends, and he makes some great drinks. I pretty much always stuck to their drink menu (in particular, I ordered many, many, many Radiant Flowers), so I can't speak to his general abilities, but he always seemed to take great care in whatever he was making, and the quality was always consistent. And hey -- guess what? -- Selector Lopaka does his Exotica thing at Fu Kun Wu on Tuesdays. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you're sitting at home on Tuesday nights in Seattle, you're a fool.

I also always enjoyed anything I ordered (drink-wise) at El Camino in Fremont. The bar gets ridiculously crowded, though.

On 2004-02-16 00:05, woofmutt wrote:
...Thanks to weirduncletiki's mention of it I went to Noodles at the Bellagio in Las Vegas and had the best exotic drinks I've ever payed for.

Gee, thanks, Woofmutt! That certainly made my night, knowing that I'd led a fellow cocktail connoisseur to a favorable experience. As my own travel season is starting to gear up, I'll post any good spots I come across and encourage all others to do likewise. Tomorrow night it'll be The Bikini Lounge in Phoenix(Let's keep our fingers crossed!). This is my kind of research!

-Weird Unc

Cocktails are a lost art, service, a thing of the past, a well made drink?, a mirage that has blurred into the dry lakebed of time. This is a total sore point with me. As some cocktails creep up into the over $10.00 range, how low can quality drop?

Trader vic's in Beverly hills is a bastion of the well made cocktail. The mai-tai is $8.00, simply a joy to dink. Compare this drink to a "Mai-tai" made at Hard Rock, Planet Hollywood, Appleby's, Chili's or any other godless chain. The preparation, the service, the quality, the garnish, there is no comparison. It is the difference between a complex and subtle work of art and a overly sweet trainwreck designed to inebreate sorority girls.

I point to Taboo Cove as a prime example of what is arguably the worst cocktails I have encountered. At $12.00 the drinks were horible. I realize I am the worst kind of cocktail snob, but, you should not serve overpriced, tasteless, weak drinks then complain nobody wants to visit your bar.

I too stick with the well, Whiskey-soda or Tequila-greyhounds my drink of choice. Shelley, who has been spoiled by the quality of drinks served at the Lagoon Room, terrorizes bartenders. Do you have this?, Do you have that? This is what I want you to do, it's a crackup.

My father visits a few upscale places in Orange County that have a way with Martinis or Manhatans but don't really make anything else that is very good. The Bloody Mary seems to be the last drink anyone has pride in. I know of many places that serve exellent Bloody Marys and are proud of this drink.

I'm curious to see what the Jab has to say on this subject.
Mahalo,
Al

I feel your pain! I would gladly pay twice as much for a well-made cocktail than for a lousy mixed drink. Like Al I tend to order highballs in most bars, unless I know I can get a good cocktail. And like Shelley sometimes I give the bartender the third degree about the ingredients or their technique. My typical manhattan order is "rye manhattan with bitters, stirred not shaken, up with a twist". Usually the bartender doesn't mind, but occasionally you get a jerk. Recently I went to Roy's in San Francisco and asked the bartender about their "famous Mai Tai". I just wanted to know if there was fresh lime in it and asked if he could leave out the pineapple juice. He replied "do you want to come back here and make it?". He blew that tip.

As far as I'm concerned, the only places one can get a good cocktail in the East Bay are Trader Vic's, Club Mallard in Albany, and the Albatross Pub in Berkeley. In San Francisco there are quite a few places - many of the better restaurants make decent cocktails. It's harder to get a good drink in a bar that isn't part of a restaurant. I've had good drinks served to me lately at House of Sheilds. But nothing beats the Foggy Grotto!

I forgot to mention a few restaurants that serve good cocktails in the East Bay: Cesar, Nizza de Bella, and Soizic. All of them take pride in their drinks as well as their food.

Okeedokee! I was back at Bellagio in Las Vegas the other night and Noodles was full so I recommended we head over to the Allegro Bar in the casino. This has got to be the best all around cocktail bar I've been to in Vegas. I've been there about four or five times in the past four years and am still amazed by the quality and hospitality found there. As we approached the bar, still about 30 feet away behind a row of video poker machines, Ray the bartender caught sight of us and began waving us over extending his hand for a hearty shake and said, "So you're back in from California? Good to see you again." He remembered my name, my business, even the fact that we had had a drink there after Rickles pulled me up on stage at The Stardust and insulted me for 20 minutes a couple years back. Okay, so Ray's a nice guy but how are his drinks? Well, I told him we were in the mood for tropicals and he said, "I can make a mai tai." So I let him go ahead without any interference on my part. He squeezed fresh lime, poured in curacao, Appleton's and another fine rum, Trader Vic's orgeat and rock candy syrups and shook it all with ice, dropped in the spent lime shell, added a straw and handed it to me. Wow! The man knows his stuff! I was impressed, but not surprised since this is the same guy who, several years ago, after a buddy ordered a negroni, excused himself for a minute or two to go find an orange so he could get a sliver of peel to twist over a lit match and let the flamed essence mist over the top of the cocktail. Okay, you get it, he knows how to make a drink! By the way, don't look for the Allegro bar now. There was a remodel to the lounge behind it and somehow it lost its name. Just look for the nameless bar facing the casino in front of Caramel's nightclub inside Bellagio. Be sure to ask for Ray. Happy tippling!

-Weird Uncle Tiki

Great tip, Weird Unc! When I was at the Bellagio, I wanted to get a drink before going into Light, so I got a Lemon Drop at Caramel. It was really expensive, even for Vegas, and tasted exactly like a moist towelette. If only I'd known to hit this little bar instead.

The beverage master at the Bellagio is Tony Abou-Ganim. He used to be the head bartender at Harry Denton's in San Francisco, where he invented The Cable Car.

Try it- it's damn good.

THE CABLE CAR

INGREDIENTS
Cinnamon

Sugar

1 1/2 ounces Captain Morgan Spiced Rum

3/4 ounce orange curacao

1 ounce fresh lemon juice

1/2 ounce simple syrup

1 orange twist, for garnish

INSTRUCTIONS
Moisten the rim of a cocktail glass and coat the exterior with a mixture of cinnamon and sugar. Refrigerate to chill.
Shake the rum, curacao, lemon juice and simple syrup over ice and strain into the chilled glass. Garnish with the orange twist.

Ahh, yes... Harry Denton's Starlight Room atop the Sir Francis Drake Hotel. Now that is a place to have a fine cocktail! Not only are the drinks completely on the up and up, but the bar itself is beautiful, the white-jacketed bartenders and the waitresses in slinky black dresses certainly give this place its reputation as one of the classiest watering holes in California. Oh, and the view from the picture windows looking out on all of San Francisco is spectacular! Not to be missed(unless you've never been to Tonga Room)!

-Weird Uncle Tiki

So, on my impromptu adventure to Las Vegas, I made a beeline to Bellagio to while away my few hours until daylight. I wanted to go Where the Drinks Are Good, and had a vague memory of this thread. I circled the casino floor surveying the bars looking for which one may be a likely candidate to have a good bartender who might serve me a good drink. I thought to myself, "What are the odds? There's probably ONE bartender in this whole casino who can make a proper drink. What are the odds I'll find him?"

So, I circle the whole floor, and decide that the little bar between the sportsbook & poker tables looks like my best bet. I sidle up to the bar and order a Cosmopolitan, because even if it got goofed up, it'd be fine. The bartender squeezed fresh lime (something I've NEVER seen done for a Cosmopolitan in a bar), and then at the end, twisted a lemon rind over the drink before draping it over the rim. Beautiful. A little strong for my taste, but well executed.

What are the odds? VEGAS ODDS, BABY! VIVA LAS VEGAS!

I had it all backwards -- the best bed is the one that's stumbling distance from Tiki-Ti, or the Mai Kai, or the Lagoon Room, or the Alibi, or the Kon Tiki, or...
Critiki

[ Edited by: Humuhumu on 2004-06-10 02:03 ]

While in Ballard/Seattle, also check out the swanky Sambar, located next to Le Gourmand. It's not tiki, but many drinks are served with sorbet floats as garnish, rose petals, and exotic fruits. Their Pear Sour is incredible and they even have a Vesper on the menu (think James Bond). The bar snacks include frittes, a rabbit pate and an insane twice baked spinach. In West Seattle, the West 5 is a snappy little joint as wide as a couple of bowling lanes. They post three tiki drinks on the menu including a Mai Tai and Dark and Stormy--I believe. Their Mai Tai is slightly sour but has a hint of cherry and almonds and is served in a tiki goblet (with a great logo swizzle stick). Try their Mac & Cheese, meatloaf, strawberry shortcake. The bartender expressed great interest in hosting a Mai Tai event--might be a good place for a Soggy Tiki in Seattle? :)

Thanks for the Seattle tips, Sea-Tki (and hmhm). I've heard some good words on West 5 and should check it out . Or I may just continue with my current MO of appreciating bad drinks and/or sticking to beer and wells...It is the cheaper way to fly.

Can totally relate my friend...just got home from West 5, they have P's Blue Ribbon in bottles and Rain-Dog on tap. Care to drink there sometime? Or Tuesday in Ballard? Let us know. Otherwise, see you in Portland? :)

Count me in for the WEst 5,
I'm a West Seattle-ite wheeee, and went to
grade school with one of the owners!
Still havent made it in there, but
been planning on going after work (LUNA PARK CAFE* sorry, we take free advertising where we can git it :wink: one of these nights.
Pea

I PM-ed Sea Tiki but for the record: I'll pretty much drink with anyone I haven't been married to.

[This message was edited by woofmutt to change his typo of "Seat Tiki" to the correct "Sea Tiki". woofmutt did not mean to imply that Sea Tiki had some sort of trouser fixation, was an upholsterer, or did a lot of sitting. woofmutt apologizes for any confusion this may have caused.]

[ Edited by: woofmutt on 2004-06-15 21:22 ]

As far as Las Vegas goes... The previously mentioned Ray is still at Bellagio, but has moved to Club Privé, the new high limit lounge. Not to worry, any lowballer (like myself) who enjoys the finest in cocktails can still go in and sit at the bar. Here's the best part: You'll be getting the hotel's best bartender pouring all drinks from bottles (no liquor guns) and for the same drink price as any of the other bars in the casino. This man is truly an artist. Just let him know what flavor profiles you like and ask for one of his original creations. Enjoy!

-Weird Unc

Tiki Pug and I just visited Club Privé last night. Drinks were incredible. Inventive and unusual with layers of flavors that are well balanced and work beautifully together. My man, Ray is on top of his game. By the way, he was just inducted into the Bartender Hall of Fame. http://bartender.com/2specials/hall-fame/05-srp.htm
I know I seem like his publicist, but I just want you, the cocktail connoisseur to have the best when visitng Las Vegas!

-Weird Unc

thanks for the info. i'll probably go by tomorrow night to try it out. anyone else in vegas?

When in Barcelona, DO NOT MISS Boadas.

Best.
Cocktails.
Ever.

Since my above posts (years ago) I've actually made it to West 5 several times. It's one of my favorite modern Seattle bars. The restaurant itself is really neat, a long narrow space with a slight bowling alley theme to it. The lights are kept low and jazz has been the music when I've been there.

As mentioned above they have several tropical drinks on the menu...

"Imagine a strange tropical port of call: the screeching of indescribably exotic birds, the lush jungle greenery, a towering stone idol slightly aslant and, most importantly, the pleasing warmth of a steaming dusk lit by flickering torch. Now imagine it in a glass and you've got our enchanting island concoctions!"

Friends and I have tried all the tropicals and they've all been well prepared, as have their other cocktails...Definitely some of the best cocktails in Seattle.

Their Mai Tai is orange but very good and balanced in the flavors and it's served in the two faced glass Tiki mug...

"Our very secret, guarded-by-deadly-python recipe blends two rums and fresh island juices to conjure a balmy island paradise at the back of your eyelids..."

Happy Hour, 4-6 PM 7 days a week, usually features a special drink or two for 4 bucks. The food has all been good to excellent. It's worth the trip across the bridge to West Seattle (rhymes with "best Seattle"). If yer visiting the Jet City West Seattle is worth a look around and the West 5 makes a great stop for refuelin'.

I found all of the Tiki bars... now I am looking for the best cocktail bars.

http://www.cocktailsnob.com

Not a TON of content there yet, but give it time...