Friendliness of liquor stores to rum noobs?

As someone new to tiki drinks, I'm trying to get a sense of what rums are available in my area. Then I'm going to read here on TC about recommended rums for various drinks, and then I'll know what to buy and can get a start on the bar without breaking the bank or making errors.
To that end I've been visiting local liquor stores. I've been to 3 now and I've had negative experiences at all 3. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or what --- but I am just straight up with them, saying something to the effect, hey, I'm learning about tiki drinks and recipes, and there's a bunch of different rums out there, and the recipes specify rums from different contries, dark, gold, yadda yadda yadda.
I say I'm doing the research so that way I know what to buy when I come back. I'm also checking prices, because dang, some of these small stores can have crazy markups on random things (and crazy good prices on others).
One guy essentially kicked me out of the store, after I'd been by myself for a while (after chatting with him when I first came in), and then I started to ask him a question about a bottle on the very tippy top shelf behind some other bottles --- I couldn't see what it was --- and he was super offended like I was insulting him by trying to ask questions about his stock.
Another store had a fantastic selection of rums, but they were shelved super high up and nothing was priced and you could read most labels but not necessarily vintages, etc. ... the employee had to literally climb a ladder to go up to the stock ... so of course I'm not going to ask him to read me every label (there were probably over 30 rums). I felt like I was really inconveniencing him. They had several Hamiltons but not 151.

By contrast, I go to 2 different BevMo's, and it's SO PLEASANT! Everything is laid out well ... organized, clean, not dusty ... the employees are happy to help or happy to let you do your thing, every is priced clearly, etc.

I suppose as a noob I am a bit price sensitive, but do most liquor stores assume you're just going to walk in and buy what's on the shelf? It's just been a bummer this past week.

(in related news, Vons has El Dorado 12 on sale for ~$32 ... is this a "buy" price?)

I wouldn't take it personally. I think you're better off researching someplace like here first. Read a bunch of the old threads, ask questions where necessary and get a general idea of what kinds of rums will be most useful for you - then go shop and try different things out. Part of the process is just making an educated guess and finding out what you like. Sometimes you may learn later than you could've found something for a better price - that's OK, just buy it there next time. Sometimes you'll be really pleasantly surprised at something inexpensive.

Have you picked up Martin Cate's new book? It's an incredible bargain on Amazon and includes a ton of info. There's a chart in it that lists different rums by type so you can get a good idea of what you can use to substitute for things you can't find locally.

Ladders sounds like maybe you went to the Keg & Bottle on El Cajon Blvd (wait til you actually buy something off a top shelf there and watch the guy throw it down to the register!) Or possibly K&B on Del Cerro Blvd (though most of their rum is lower & more visible) They'll often carry stuff that BevMo doesn't, but but K&B Del Cerro especially seems pricier than other places. Plaza sometimes needs a ladder, their prices in at least some cases are a bunch better.

We have some stores with good stock in San Diego but unfortunately that doesn't mean that every employee behind the cash register is a rum connoisseur who knows everything about every product. In reality, he probably sells a whole lot more Bud Light and cigarettes than fine sipping rums, even if some happen to be up there on a top shelf somewhere. If you don't know what you're after, and especially if you told him you're probably not going to buy today, he may feel like it's not worth his time to climb up and dust off the one thing buried all the way in the back of the highest shelf. Not ideal customer service, just the way it may be.

I wouldn't worry about stocking all at once. Read here, come to the Bali Hai meet-ups and chat with people, and just try one or two things at a time. Maybe you'll hit a dud once in a while, but there are really no losers in this game.

I haven't compared prices at everyplace in town, but $32 for El Dorado 12 year doesn't sound bad. I wouldn't worry about a few dollars. Go for it and start experimenting!

On 2016-07-04 22:05, bamalamalu wrote:
I wouldn't take it personally. I think you're better off researching someplace like here first. Read a bunch of the old threads, ask questions where necessary and get a general idea of what kinds of rums will be most useful for you - then go shop and try different things out. Part of the process is just making an educated guess and finding out what you like. Sometimes you may learn later than you could've found something for a better price - that's OK, just buy it there next time. Sometimes you'll be really pleasantly surprised at something inexpensive.

Have you picked up Martin Cate's new book? It's an incredible bargain on Amazon and includes a ton of info. There's a chart in it that lists different rums by type so you can get a good idea of what you can use to substitute for things you can't find locally.

Ladders sounds like maybe you went to the Keg & Bottle on El Cajon Blvd (wait til you actually buy something off a top shelf there and watch the guy throw it down to the register!) Or possibly K&B on Del Cerro Blvd (though most of their rum is lower & more visible) They'll often carry stuff that BevMo doesn't, but but K&B Del Cerro especially seems pricier than other places. Plaza sometimes needs a ladder, their prices in at least some cases are a bunch better.

We have some stores with good stock in San Diego but unfortunately that doesn't mean that every employee behind the cash register is a rum connoisseur who knows everything about every product. In reality, he probably sells a whole lot more Bud Light and cigarettes than fine sipping rums, even if some happen to be up there on a top shelf somewhere. If you don't know what you're after, and especially if you told him you're probably not going to buy today, he may feel like it's not worth his time to climb up and dust off the one thing buried all the way in the back of the highest shelf. Not ideal customer service, just the way it may be.

I wouldn't worry about stocking all at once. Read here, come to the Bali Hai meet-ups and chat with people, and just try one or two things at a time. Maybe you'll hit a dud once in a while, but there are really no losers in this game.

I haven't compared prices at everyplace in town, but $32 for El Dorado 12 year doesn't sound bad. I wouldn't worry about a few dollars. Go for it and start experimenting!

Good points, thanks!

Ya the ladders was K&B on El Cajon. The guy was cool but I didn't want to be a bother (I was still smarting from my other really negative stop) (and atually, your comment about Bud Light and cigs I think was spot on about that other place0

I'll check out Cate's book --- I've been seeing the buzz about it. And ya, it'd be nice to have a reference for all the different countries, and rum by dark/gold/aged/etc.

I'm planning on going to the Bali Hai on the 11th ........ I'll be the guy with the spreadsheet

I'm going to Tiki Makeke in a few weeks, and it looks like Hi Times is just down the road, so I think I'll hit there for my stock.

Don't let the tough places get you down -- that's where you can find some great stuff! One of my most valuable and out of production rums came from a local hole-in-the-wall liquor store where all they cared about was selling bottles.

Few places really understand tiki. Even fewer cater to tiki. As has already been said here, for any new person to tiki, it's best to do some research and then move out into the stores. Otherwise you will risk raising the ire of the people in the stores who are most often not interested in teaching you more than just a few basics.

I don't have BevMo near me, but Total Wine does provide help when I ask, they just don't know tiki. So again, pick up a few ideas in advance and develop a game plan for visiting liquor stores. You can use apps like Grogalizer (online) and Total Tiki (iOS) to choose some cocktails and then buy those specific rums to make what you want to drink.

I drove into extreme southern Georgia last year (Brunswick, 1 hour north of me) and I cruised 5 local liquor stores one night. I was surprised by what I found, both good and bad. Other than driving into a couple seedy parts of town (and NOT stopping at one store) we had a good time. It was a great "date night" if you can believe it -- driving and exploring -- and I encourage it if you can do so safely. You might find an elusive rum collecting dust up on a top shelf just like I have on a couple occasions. This is when your home bar can become an outside activity, one which you may consider an adventure of sorts.

Cheers!

Edit/clarification: In addition to Grogalizer and Total Tiki, the previous suggestions to buy and use tiki recipe books is also very good. Both Martin Cate's and Jeff Berry's books are a great starting point.

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2016-07-05 06:29 ]

Excellent advise. Over the past year or so, I have greatly expanded my rum collection. I have both Total Wine and Specs (literally 2 minutes from each other) so I compare prices online before I decide which store to buy from. In fact, I have an Evernote notebook setup on my Android that I use to list rums that I am interested in, with price and availability. When I go to a new liquor store, I am able to quickly see price comparisons and maybe grab that bottle that I want that I couldn't find at my local liquor stores.

I am headed to California in late July and have talked my wife into a detour to Hi Time Wines. My rum list will definitely come in handy.

Rick in Texas

I want to encourage you to take the suggestion to pick up the Smuggler's Cove book from Martin Cate. The rum system in the book makes it easy to get what you need for the drinks you want to make, and makes sense of the different styles of rum, beyond color (white, gold, dark, etc). The colors really mean nothing for the most part. The book lists a ton of bottles that are pretty easy to find (online if not in local retail) and tells you what you can substitute if you can't find the one in your recipe. And because of the way the rums are categorized, you can get by with just 4-8 bottles to make just about all the tiki drinks.

The local liquor store employees rarely know anything about tiki drinks, much less which rums should go in them, so it would be best to go into those places knowing what you're looking for. It also doesn't hurt to call ahead to ask if they have what you want before you waste your time and theirs looking for something they don't carry. It's probably best to call in the middle of a weekday, when they're not likely to be very busy.

You should definitely stop at Hi Time in Costa Mesa. I haven't been there since Forrest left, but they had a pretty great rum selection back then, and probably still do. Be warned though, you'll probably end up buying much more than you intended when you see what they have.

First off, since you are interested in rum, you likely know more than any liquor store employee in SD. I have generally around 100 different rums in my house and I have never met anyone in a store that knows anything about rum.

Bev Mo has a huge selection of crap rums and only a few worth purchasing. Usually they do have the cheapest rates though. They like to carry high end whiskeys but not rums.

Keg & Bottles usually have the best selection of rums, but they are always on the higher side of pricing.

Newport Farms in OB has a decent selection of rums.

Hi Times is your best bet by far. You can get it delivered to you as well for just like $10 shipping, even if you get 6-12 bottles. You can also stop by a Total Wine when you are up that way and check out their selection.

I'll share a secret spot I know but I might regret it when all my rum is gone. Old Town Liquor has Hamiltons Demerara for $24.99 and 151 for $29.99. They also have Clement, one of the only places to get Agricole rum in San Diego.

There is a liquor store in La Mesa that stocks Plantation Pineapple for $32 a bottle, the only place in SD for that.

Basically, I hunt down rums wherever I can find them. Sometimes stopping at random spots really pays off, other times there is no decent rum. I have to go to one spot to get Smith & Cross and another to get El Dorado, but that is just fine. Sometimes Trader Joe's will have a good rum on sale for cheap, so keep looking. If you find a bottle that looks interesting, do the research yourself on your phone. I promise you already know more than the person behind the counter. The tiki meetup is a great place for you. We chat about rum all night. Check into Tiki Oasis and find a rum tasting symposium. You will get an amazing amount of information from some of the smartest people in the rum community.

[ Edited by: lunavideogames 2016-07-05 18:35 ]

While I agree with all of the recommendations for the Smuggler's Cove book, in my neck of the woods the rums that are recommended are VERY hard to get. I have a lot more luck getting my hands on the rums listed in Beach Bum Berry's Remixed than I do the Smuggler's Cove book.

Both books are essential, but your mileage may vary in locating various rums between the two.

The Texas liquor cartels pretty much pigeonhole every liquor store to be carbon copies of each other here in North Texas. Mom and Pop shops yield a few surprises here and there, but for the most part it's a matter of pestering the guys who can actually get their hands on stuff to order it.

I understand completely. With thousands of recipes available to me, and a myriad of rums and mixers, I routinely find myself hunting and searching for something. Sometimes I drive distances, or I use mail order. And sometimes I find surprises in my own backyard.

This is part of the experience of taking up cocktails. It's a mixture of the joy of making cocktails, and also the frustration of not being able to make something because you can't find (or can't afford) to buy what you really need to do it right. Occasionally, just when you give up, you may find something which has eluded you and you get to take it home.

That's just the way it is no matter where you live. Everyone has a different set of struggles, even those to live near the big liquor warehouse stores. So hang in there and enjoy the experience with what you have and what you can get, and never stop looking around.

Cheers!

I agree 100% with the comments of AceExplorer and The_Devils_Tool.

@The_Devils_Tool - Total Wine and Specs are my first stop, usually done via the internet as they have a very good search engine. I have also found some good stuff at Pogos, which is a high end Mom and Pop store that is very friendly. Siegels is another option that you have to visit in person since you the site search is terrible. The "corner liquor stores" that have popped up recently (I live in Collin County) do have some surprises on occasion. I HATE that due to the stupid liquor distribution laws in Texas that we can't get the Costco brand of liquor. I have found some good deals there, however.

@AceExplorer - Every trip I take, I make sure to find local liquor stores. I have found some great items this way. For awhile, my wife traveled for work and she would take up the search and find some great stuff. It is all part of the enjoyment and quickly growing bar.

I know it has been mentioned before, but get to know the people at your local liquor store. I was on a search for Stiggin's Fancy at Total Wine (it was not on the shelves so you had to ask for it) and the guy helping me went to the back for a bottle. He came back and said "Do you like Coruba? I ordered a few bottles for another customer and have some left." Again, it was not on the shelf but was available.

Rick in Texas

I totally agree with getting to know the folks in your local store. Here in North Carolina I can't get squat worth drinking, but ... 30 minutes away in South Carolina, where the liquor laws are reasonable, there's a great store with a very knowledgeable spirits buyer who really cares about getting what his customers want. He's also humble enough to admit that I know more about rum than he does, so when his distributors alert him to something new in their portfolio, he shoots me an email to ask if it's worth buying! He has gone way out of his way to source some of my favorite bottles I used to be able to get in California, but are hard to find here. Fortunately, he has other customers who enjoy trying the new rums he brings into the store on my behalf, so he's not losing money on my oddball requests. He has even helped connect his distributors with importers and producers who are friends of mine.

So when you do find an employee (or better yet, a buyer) who really does want to help, make them your best friend, which might even mean having them over for drinks when they get you that special bottle you can't find anywhere else.

In Austin we have two local chains, Specs and Twin, that have many locations, plus a couple Total Wines that recently opened. TW definitely has the best pricing but good luck even finding someone to assist you, no less have any knowledge of rum. I always stop in small mom and pop shops to see if there are any ancient forgotten bottles still laying around or maybe something I've never seen before that I'll take a chance on. Typically these type of shops value their customers more than the super high volume stores with disposable employees.

On 2016-07-12 13:55, JenTiki wrote:

So when you do find an employee (or better yet, a buyer) who really does want to help, make them your best friend, which might even mean having them over for drinks when they get you that special bottle you can't find anywhere else.

Sound advice. I own a vintage/mid century modern furniture store and while out on a delivery a few months back I passed a cool looking liquor store in a part of town I don't typically frequent called the Austin Shaker. I doubled back to check it out. The woman working was super friendly, though the rum section was quite dismal. She admitted that rum was their weak point and showed me a suggestion sheet where they could try and order things people are specifically looking for. I jotted down a handful of things and went on my merry way, not thinking anything would come of it. A few weeks later I had another delivery in the same area so figured I'd pop back in. Not only did she remember our short encounter, she pointed out all the things they had just got in that I had suggested (Clements, BG syrups, etc)! Her husband was there too so we got to talking and I ended up spending an hour there. They invited me and my wife over for Easter. I brought over a bottle of Stiggins (something I had requested they carry that he was trying to get to no avail) so I could make them some daiquiris. We formed a friendship and they ended up sponsoring an after hours cocktail party at my shop in May. I've had them over for drinks. I get text messages from the owner when things like Stiggins finally arrived (and he just let me know Pussers Gunpowder is on the way). That level of customer service is rare these days. Sure, their prices aren't as low as the chains and box stores but I'll gladly go out of my way and pay a few extra bucks to keep an independent store that cares afloat.