Prices on mugs dropping, what gives?

I wonder if ATP and Lucas Vigor are the same person. I mean, as soon as one annoying person is gone, another one shows up to fill that void.

More than anything the last 29 days has shown us the following, (until today), there have been no issues, no petty arguments, no random foul language, pretty much no nonsense.

The idea of TC being boring without these things was proven wrong with cool updates in the "light identification" thread, finding tiki, new pics of the del mar drive -in, plus lots more..

Once again, if everyone would just post with the intention of learning, helping other people to learn, be polite, and not use TC as a public address to their drinking buddies, Tc would be back on track.

A Happy Tiki Central Recipe

Ingredients

4 cups Of love
2 cups Of loyalty
3 cups Forgiveness
1 cup Friendship
5 Spoons of hope
2 Spoons of tenderness
4 quarts Of faith
1 Barrel of laughter

How to make it

Take love and loyalty, mix them throughly with Faith. Blend it with tenderness, kindness and understanding. Add friendship and hope, sprinkle abundantly with laughter. Bake it with sunshine. Serve daily with generous helpings.
Notes: Serves more than enough to go around...
Prep and cook times are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year...

I want to make this but we don't have ANY of the Ingredients.

We do have the stuff needed to make Bi*$% cakes though.
Bi*$% cakes are ok if you have sour grape wine to go with them.

TC "were not happy, till your not happy"

I kid folks, Happy Spring!!!

If you lived here you'd be home by now.

This thread is the reason why so many of us longtime members visit this site so infrequently.
I used to come here for knowledge and news about tiki. Now it's... I don't know what.

On 2016-03-07 08:35, Luckydesigns wrote:
This thread is the reason why so many of us longtime members visit this site so infrequently.
I used to come here for knowledge and news about tiki. Now it's... I don't know what.

DixonAlibi Dropped two bomb posts with pictures of almost every kind of tiki light ever made, Old ones! killer ones! and that got a whopping four comments.

Maybe people want knowledge and news about tiki but don't comment.
But the way the comments and hits point is more of an interest to threads like these as they get many hits and comments FAST, the thread I talked about has only like 3000 more hits than this one but is over one year old.
And took a lot of time and effort to put together I might add.

This "bad" thread is like one month old and by the numbers AND comments is Killing knowledge and news about tiki.

I hear what you are saying though, I get frustrated putting time into posts that are about knowledge and news about tiki only to be blown off and crushed by the fluff.

Just sayin, Something to think about.

knowledge and news about tiki here...
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=48762&forum=5&start=60

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:23 ]

Hey folks, I'd love to see this thread (and the TC system) return to more pertinent stuff, like history and details and friendly discussion. I know, this negative stuff happens from time to time, it's human nature for some to snipe here and there. But why do we let it spin out of control? It's embarrassing to us. But there is also great freedom here on Tiki Central from heavy-handed moderators. We may be forgetting that Karl is very forgiving.

Personally, I don't give a hoot if I post something and nobody replies. Do we really want a system full of posts where each has 1,000 meaningless "nice post" and "good job" replies? Hell no, that'd be really bad too. But unlike Facebook, this system is searchable many days, months, and years down the road. So whatever I contribute may get seen years from now, even if I'm dead. All I care about is sharing and collaborating and also learning from others posts, and that's not in any way connected to how many replies or attaboys I get.

Peace... Now have a drink, well ya? :drink:

Was talking about hits too, as in fewer people even look at tiki info threads.
knowledge and news about tiki, it's here still if that's what your looking for.
Negative is here too if that's what your looking for.

Even Facebook was in the news about this same kind of negative thing going on Facebook.
Maybe the reality housewives shows are getting people all ready to fight.

Oh, maybe a TV show about Tiki housewives, "Dons IMP is better, no Elks IMP is better"

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:23 ]

On 2016-03-07 09:14, lucas vigor wrote:
People accuse ATP or me or being trolls? Then why is it that every time either of us post, there are a handful of others like El Jefe and Swizzle who are right there, 2 steps behind us each time? ALWAYS the same two guys.

This is a case of popular trolls going against unpopular trolls. And now we have a new one, who supposedly joined in 2014, and did not post much until just recently (veronica!).......... ATP is long gone, and is not coming back. I will probably leave again soon, as well.

Is it a handful Lucas, which could be up to five, or just the two of us? Regardless, we are trolling the trolls. And guess what? If you do leave again, which hopefully you will, then El Jefe and I will have NOTHING to troll against, because the two people that take over threads and make them all about themselves will no longer be here.

And when did Veronica start 'trolling'? When she was attacked by ATP for posting something in his food thread that he didn't like and she stood up for herself. If ATP had responded to her initial post with a little more tact, which is something he is obviously not capable of doing, then the outcome would have been different and she wouldn't be trolling you because you are sticking up for your drinking buddy. And IF Veronica is Liz, then who did/does Liz argue with here the most???? ATP and you, Lucas. (And before you say, "And this person and that person and that person", read below).

And now just a little back story about Liz, specifically for you Lucas, which i'll try to make as short as possible. I met Liz briefly at Tiki Oasis in 2012 and when i said i was going up to SF for a few days she gave me her number and told me to contact her when i was there and she would show me around. She took me to places i would never had had the chance to see on my own because she was driving, and i was extremely grateful for that, BUT, within 5mins of being in her company i could see EXACTLY why a lot of people don't like her. I met people while we were out who wouldn't join us/talk to me because they didn't want to sit with Liz. However, she was good to me and i got along with her fine and we stayed friends on Facebook, until.......

Going back about 18 months or so she attacked/criticized on Facebook, a mug maker who i've met and know personally, and that was it for me. There was no call for being so nasty and having a go at him. I unfriended her and when she asked me why, i let loose and spoke to her, and said things, in a way i don't think she has ever had anyone ever do before and for someone with such a big mouth and attitude, the best she could come up with as a response, was, "Whatever. Have a good life". Last year at Oasis she would not even look me in the eye whenever i saw her.

My point to all that is, she has an attitude problem and issues with lots of people but the two main people she argued with on this site are the same two people El Jefe and I argue with, you Lucas, and you're drinking buddy ATP. So that's three people arguing with the same two. So the common denominator in that is ATP and Lucas. Remove them from the equation and there is no-one left to argue with.

This is seriously the last time i will ever respond to any comments you make Lucas. I know the content will just be, "Woe is me and The Beatles suck (give it a $%#@ing rest will you?)".

And for the record, in 2014 i told ATP the date i was going to be at Don The Beachcombers if he wanted to actually meet in person, not to become best friends, but just to talk and see if he is as nice a guy in person as some people always say, and he never showed up. He went every other Monday but didn't the day i happened to be there. Why not? Was he too scared to be proved wrong that he's just as much of an ass in person as he is on the computer?

On 2016-03-07 12:31, AceExplorer wrote:

Personally, I don't give a hoot if I post something and nobody replies. Do we really want a system full of posts where each has 1,000 meaningless "nice post" and "good job" replies? Hell no, that'd be really bad too.

Not exactly, but at the same time YES. Those 1,000 post are not 'meaningless' AT ALL. What they are doing are showing the person that spent the time to post that their contribution is acknowledged and appreciated and not in vain. People seek validation and acceptance, that's just human nature. If you aren't going to recieve either of those things then why bother putting in the effort for other peoples benefit when you get nothing in return?

Message to Swizzle (and El Jefe), and anyone else that wants to help improve TC:

DO NOT troll a troll.

If somebody is trolling, IGNORE them. As they say, "Do not feed the trolls". If you see somebody causing trouble, send me a Private Message.

Trolling a troll NEVER makes things better, it just doesn't.

Back on Topic. Mug prices have gone down and sales are flat. What do the rest of you think?

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:23 ]

On 2016-03-07 19:42, ron-tiki wrote:
Back on Topic. Mug prices have gone down and sales are flat. What do the rest of you think?

Bottom of page 2 Ron :wink:

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/mug.cgi?mode=view&mug_id=3127

On 2016-03-07 19:09, Hakalugi wrote:
Message to Swizzle (and El Jefe), and anyone else that wants to help improve TC:

DO NOT troll a troll.

If somebody is trolling, IGNORE them. As they say, "Do not feed the trolls". If you see somebody causing trouble, send me a Private Message.

Trolling a troll NEVER makes things better, it just doesn't.

Amen to that!! This thread is like a freeway pile-up ... you know you don't want to see the carnage, but you just can't help looking. All the back and forth bickering really doesn't help anything and does cause a lot of folks (who don't always announce it) to leave TC or not even bother to sign up after lurking. Just last week I received the following response when suggesting that a facebook friend post progress pics of his new home tiki space on TC: "It's been a while since I visited that site. Didn't seem terribly welcoming in the past..."

If we want to see the actual content that is the whole purpose of TC, we need to make it a place where people are comfortable sharing without fear of being trolled. There are several people on this site (not all of whom have posted on this thread) who make it an intimidating place to "hang out." It very much does feel like high school sometimes and the cliques/rivalries are very obvious even to the casual observer. Most of our lives are stressful enough without running into such drama every time we log into a site that, by its very nature, is supposed to be about escapism. Whatever happened to "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"? Sure, that means that sometimes we have to bite our tongues, but that's better than fanning a flame that will burn us all eventually. Gentle guidance for newbs is one thing, but outright insults and judgment don't help anybody. (Unless, of course, they're trying to make a Mai Tai with Myers or grenadine :wink: )

[steps off soapbox]

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:22 ]

Back to the topic!

Or go here!

http://www.thehopeline.com/gethelp/

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2016-03-08 08:04 ]

On 2016-03-08 07:52, lucas vigor wrote:
I don't know if I am one of those people, but I have only ever bagged on two people's "art". One was that CRIBE dude, (who actually was trolling us, and a bunch of very nice people here went after him as well) and the other was an artist who blatantly ripped off and copied a friend of mine's project. In 13 years, that's it. I don't think I have ever even asked "where are the tikis". In fact, I like looking at pictures of people's projects. As far as some of my opinionated posts, if you look at them, you would see that it is not directed at anyone personally. For example, if I said "I hate the beatles", the only ones that should probably be offended are, the beatles. And if anyone ever said "I hate jazz" and made a thread about it, I can guarantee you I would not be offended to the point where I stop visiting the site.

You miss the majority of my point I think. My post was more about the public bickering and name calling. Calling someone a psychopath on a regular basis is a blatant violation of Rule #2 (whether or not that person has earned it) and frankly I'm surprised it has been allowed to continue, as recently as three days ago, for so long. Personal gripes with one or two other people don't belong on the public forums. They are exactly the reason some people stay away. Who needs to see that online, when most of us get plenty of it in our real lives? Take a cue from Disney and let it go. It will do wonders for your blood pressure.
:drink:

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:22 ]

I think my timing may be off for an on-topic post, but anyway...

Thinking about the uber-collectable vintage mugs that maybe can be found for less astronomical prices these days, some of the reasons suggested earlier make sense. There's a limited number of uber-collectors, and they got theirs, so maybe they aren't as much in the market anymore. And maybe some of the casual but long-time collectors ultimately slowed down on ALL collecting as they found that their shelves got full.

And maybe in the market today, both casual and serious collectors are focusing more on new mugs and ceramics, which are often true works of art. I think there's an interesting nuance in that shift - on the surface most people might say a tiki mug is a tiki mug, whether it's new or old. But they really have a different nature in terms of appeal. The vintage mug is a tangible artifact of some past time and place that we can only dream about or see from the historical record. The modern mug is a work of art, with less historical context (sometimes with nods to designs of the past), but with the same esthetic and often times greater craftsmanship and customization. It makes perfect sense that different collectors might prefer one or the other, or that some might have a simultaneous interest in both.

Anyway, that all relates to the big bucks mugs. On the flipside, it seems like the bottom end is gradually moving up. Often a tiki mug at an estate sale might be priced at $10 or even $20, where they used to be much less. If something isn't priced and you ask, they say, "oh that's a tiki, those are collectable!" Not always the case, but it seems like there's more of this. But I don't really have a good basis, since I'm one of those people who has slowed down on collecting (and the whole scene to be honest).

I guess there's one last observation in that sense too. The tiki scene has changed, maybe in a lot of ways, but I'm thinking in terms of familiarity and obtainability. 20 years ago, the world of tiki was like Bali Hai in South Pacific - kind of a magical technicolor fantasy paradise that was hard to get to. You had to hunt and dig to find experiences with environments, drinks, music, artifacts, and imagery. Today, that island has been thoroughly documented, you can find artifacts and imagery with a couple clicks, there are events all the time (especially in California, sorry), and many of the ancient mysterious cocktail ciphers have already been decoded and even improved. Bali Hai is turning into Waikiki.

But I don't mean that as negatively as it might sound. I think some may find that an unconscious part of the allure in yesterday's tiki scene was the exotic unreachability, and that part is fading. But for lovers of the esthetic, the access to these experiences that we can have today is fantastic. It's just different. Sort of the hunter's paradox - when you find the paradise you seek, the reward of discovery is accompanied by the loss of the romance of the hunt.

-Randy

Well said Randy..
Stay Tiki

On 2016-03-08 10:16, aquarj wrote:

....I guess there's one last observation in that sense too. The tiki scene has changed, maybe in a lot of ways, but I'm thinking in terms of familiarity and obtainability. 20 years ago, the world of tiki was like Bali Hai in South Pacific - kind of a magical technicolor fantasy paradise that was hard to get to. You had to hunt and dig to find experiences with environments, drinks, music, artifacts, and imagery. Today, that island has been thoroughly documented, you can find artifacts and imagery with a couple clicks, there are events all the time (especially in California, sorry), and many of the ancient mysterious cocktail ciphers have already been decoded and even improved. Bali Hai is turning into Waikiki.

But I don't mean that as negatively as it might sound. I think some may find that an unconscious part of the allure in yesterday's tiki scene was the exotic unreachability, and that part is fading. But for lovers of the esthetic, the access to these experiences that we can have today is fantastic. It's just different. Sort of the hunter's paradox - when you find the paradise you seek, the reward of discovery is accompanied by the loss of the romance of the hunt.

-Randy

Just read Randy's over a year-old post, I like his "Bali Hai is turning into Waikiki". - As an urban archeologist, I feel it's a little bit like this:

90s Tiki archeology was like Frederic Catherwood's rendering of this altar in Copan, the way he found it in the jungle:

...an now, it's all cleaned up and accessible to tourists! :)

Yeah, certainly feels like that, Sven. It still blows my mind that most new people into tiki are more excited about this or that artist's new mug over vintage stuff. I'm happy for the artists... I personally just kind of don't get it. The historical part of tiki is a big thing for me.

Side note, I've been visiting TC a lot more recently. There are some great new groups on Facebook, but it all feels disposable... This is still the world's greatest resource and community for true tiki enthusiasts.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^A++++++

Newcomers to tiki (or any culture, really) take a while to get up to speed on history. Someone new to wine will be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a $50 bottle of pinot noir and Two Buck Chuck, and may well prefer the Chuck, since their tastes haven't been refined.

Likewise, with anything that has "collectibles" associated with it, initial growth in popularity will always attract the speculators, who snap up more uncommon (as well as newer products) as an investment. The investors drive up prices, and then, at some point, it reaches saturation and prices begin declining. I've seen it happen with baseball cards, comic books and other things. I believe Tikiskip made the analogy of Beanie Babies earlier in this thread--that and the tulip craze are extreme examples. People with no personal investment in the overall history of a movement try to cash in and make a buck. I'm not saying that's what's happening with tiki mugs (is there a corresponding price drop for Witcos and other art forms associated with tiki?) but it wouldn't surprise me if that's playing a part. If speculators realize they're not going to see an appreciable return on investment, they're liable to dump their collection and get what they can for it, further depressing prices on the open market.

On the bright side, this just makes things more affordable for those of us who want the mugs for what they are, not how much they might bring in the future. :)

I agree with Spike 100%. Most of my collection is vintage and even though I have been collecting for over 15 years I still get excited when I find a vintage mug I don't own.
One thing that always puzzled me was whether the new artist were ever into tiki themselves or if they just wanted to make money. My collection is probably 10% new, I probably bought the mugs just to support the artist at the time, I am not doing that much anymore. There are way too many events and occasions with tribute mugs. I notice the price of new mugs are much higher on ebay, some of these new mugs look amazing but there is no historical significance to them so therefore they don't interest me. I still enjoy being on TC and enjoy being a regular. Long live TC.

I agree with Spike 100%. Most of my collection is vintage and even though I have been collecting for over 15 years I still get excited when I find a vintage mug I don't own.
One thing that always puzzled me was whether the new artist were ever into tiki themselves or if they just wanted to make money. My collection is probably 10% new, I probably bought the mugs just to support the artist at the time, I am not doing that much anymore. There are way too many events and occasions with tribute mugs. I notice the price of new mugs are much higher on ebay, some of these new mugs look amazing but there is no historical significance to them so therefore they don't interest me. I still enjoy being on TC and enjoy being a regular. Long live TC.

Put me down for one in this column as well. I find no joy in compulsively buying new mugs with no historical significance just for the sake of having them. I do own quite a few contemporary mugs, but the majority of them have been acquired from visits to the establishment from which they came or I found them at a thrift store/flea market/antique mall and the price was right.

I am guilty of buying multiple mugs from places I've been so I can sell them online and let the sucker shell out top dollar, but that is part of what pays for my visits to these tiki places. I bought 2 "Ports o' Call" editions of the Smuggler's Cove Kuhiko mug at the bar, and sold one on eBay for $175 to someone who lived less than 20 miles from Smuggler's Cove! I wouldn't pay that price, but I'm sure willing to take their money...

On 2016-03-08 10:16, aquarj wrote:
I guess there's one last observation in that sense too. The tiki scene has changed, maybe in a lot of ways, but I'm thinking in terms of familiarity and obtainability. 20 years ago, the world of tiki was like Bali Hai in South Pacific - kind of a magical technicolor fantasy paradise that was hard to get to. You had to hunt and dig to find experiences with environments, drinks, music, artifacts, and imagery. Today, that island has been thoroughly documented, you can find artifacts and imagery with a couple clicks, there are events all the time (especially in California, sorry), and many of the ancient mysterious cocktail ciphers have already been decoded and even improved. Bali Hai is turning into Waikiki.

But I don't mean that as negatively as it might sound. I think some may find that an unconscious part of the allure in yesterday's tiki scene was the exotic unreachability, and that part is fading. But for lovers of the esthetic, the access to these experiences that we can have today is fantastic. It's just different. Sort of the hunter's paradox - when you find the paradise you seek, the reward of discovery is accompanied by the loss of the romance of the hunt.

When I first went Goth, the Internet was new and I had no "in" to the local Goth scene, so I was pretty much flying by the seat of my pants for years trying to figure it out. Nowadays, the uber-Goth side has faded (it never truly goes away) and my great love is Victorian-Edwardian history, aesthetics, and Scientific Romances. The sudden rise of the Steampunk scene about 10 years ago was more of a hindrance than a help, because Steampunk is very not the same thing as Victorian-Edwardian Scientific Romances, and overall I've been flying by the seat of my pants on that subject for 20-some years now. Tiki has actually been one of the more accessible things I've gotten into. I first got exposed to it at Disneyland! But even then, I can't be content and have to get all into pre-WWII "Pri-Tiki".

Honestly, it sucks.

I don't really feel the proverbial thrill of the hunt. I WISH I could just find what I liked easily, at the mall or wherever. I WISH Neo-Victorian aesthetics were more of a thing, so that I could more easily find more things that were Neo-Victorian in style. My life would have been immeasurably improved by just being able to go to the local chain music store and finding a section of Goth bands, or a bookstore and finding anthologies of Victorian-Edwardian Scientific Romances. Part of my motivation behind my Victorian-Edwardian Scientific Romance blog (http://voyagesextraordinaires.blogspot.com/) is to lower that entry point and make it easier for people coming after me.

I get the attraction that if only a relatively small group of people are into it then you are all sharing this intense mutual love for something that you might not share with hundreds or thousands of "casuals." But I also feel that if you genuinely like something, then you like it, regardless of who else does or doesn't. If lots and lots of people are also into it, even if they're just casuals who decide it's the new in thing or the entry point has gotten sufficiently low, then that just means there's potentially more of it for you to enjoy more easily. Some of it will be hit and miss... I don't know what is with the brass pineapple cups that seem to be "in" for department store patio collections right now... but that's kind of an embarrassment of riches. To be so lucky as to have your pick of it!

Maybe I just don't want my unbridled affection for something to get tainted with the critique of mass society. I dunno'...

Oh yeah... mugs...

I do gear towards new mugs, mainly because I either just like them or have attachments from actually going to the place they're from (most of my mugs are Disney ones, for example). I've thought about replacing my "starter set" of Dynasty mugs for their vintage Orchids predecessors, but it's not an overriding passion right now. I've got a few vintage pieces, but my main accomplishment has been to get beyond simply buying any Tiki mug I see because it happens to be there. I'm past that starter stage and passed those mugs along to other people in their starter stage :) I suppose as I research I might start picking up more attachments to vintage things, but only time will tell.

[ Edited by: EnchantedTikiGoth 2017-05-24 21:45 ]

On 2017-05-24 11:52, bigbrotiki wrote:
Just read Randy's over a year-old post, I like his "Bali Hai is turning into Waikiki". - As an urban archeologist, I feel it's a little bit like this:

90s Tiki archeology was like Frederic Catherwood's rendering of this altar in Copan, the way he found it in the jungle:
..

...an now, it's all cleaned up and accessible to tourists! :)

Thanks Sven, nice visual illustration of your point!

-Randy

"It still blows my mind that most new people into tiki are more excited about this or that artist's new mug over vintage stuff. I'm happy for the artists... I personally just kind of don't get it."

I see new year 2000 mugs from a place that sell for like three times what the old mugs that place had from the first day they opened.

When I see what people buy these days it's odd, true old stuff I have had from the Kahiki at times nobody wanted and at times I had some low prices on it.
F%^K it, buy it when I'm dead at the estate sale, I'd rather burn it than sell it to some people for cheap.

Lots of times it seams like a fanboy collector mentality more than a true old tiki collector one.
Fine I'll take the old stuff.

Damn the Disney stuff is out of sight in price.

Bosko, Tiki Diablo and Al do make some cool stuff though.

But Skip have you seen how much friggen Bob goes for nowadays!!! :o :D

[ Edited by: Beachbumz 2019-01-29 00:33 ]

Ha! now that was funny!

I love the Bosko Bobs and have two or three and those do sell high.

Bob is just over done.
Damn I stopped tying floats because it was getting to the point where it was the same thing over and over.

The Bob mug is borderline tiki as it is, now take it and make it a Pac Man Bob?

People love em, what do I know.

I just wish I could make a light mold and crank out the frame for a light and do a quick finish and pop em out one after the other.

No I don't, as every light is unique.