Post #611224 by abstractiki on Sat, Oct 22, 2011 9:48 AM

I recently located Butch Toccoli. Butch was the Foreman and Site Superintendent for Al Toccoli Construction the builder of the Bali Hai and Outrigger Apartments in Stockton CA. I interviewed him on the grounds of the Bali Hai and The Outrigger on October 20, 2011.

Here is the interview and a pic.

Butch Toccoli at the Outrigger apartments Stockton CA.

Abstractiki - Butch can I get a picture of you by the stone tiki before we get started?

Butch – Sure.

Abstractiki - Toccoli Construction was a family business and you were the second generation?

Butch Toccoli – Correct.

Abstractiki – And you have a son right now that is still in the business?

Butch Toccoli - Yes

Abstractiki – How old are you now may I ask?

Butch Toccoli - 72

Abstractiki - Butch, as I understand it your Dad was in charge of the Company?

Butch Toccoli – Yes, Al Toccoli.

Abstractiki- And you say Alex (Spanos) and him were good friends?

Butch Toccoli – Yea

Abstractiki - Were you on the job site and helped build this?

Butch Toccoli – Yes

Abstractiki – What was your main job? Were you like a Foreman?

Butch Toccoli - A Foreman yes, a site Superintendent.

Abstractiki - Does your family or the construction business still have any of the blueprints for these apartments?

Butch Toccoli – I looked though all our files, we have archives since 1944 but I couldn’t find them.

Abstractiki - Oh wow, and no photographs or documents of the building?

Butch Toccoli – No I couldn’t find anything.

Abstractiki - OK, do you remember where you got the stone Tiki God from?

Butch Toccoli – Alex got them, he had them brought in.

Abstractiki - Were you here when they installed this stone Tiki?

Butch Toccoli - Yea. My Dad and I were here and I was very impressed.

Abstractiki - Did they have to bring it in with a crane?

Butch Toccoli - Yea, a cherry picker they callem, it’s heavier than hell!

Abstractiki - What were people saying at the time? Was it stirring any emotion or?

Butch Toccoli - (people said) what is that? The Bali Hai that’s what it’s supposed to be.

Abstractiki - Was it Alex’s idea to have the stone Tiki or the architects?

Butch Toccoli – Alex’s

Abstractiki - Ok, let’s go look around the interior a little bit. Except for the plants growing and the fence around the pool it looks pretty much the same as it did.

Butch Toccoli – Yea, in those days you didn’t have the fence requirements.

Abstractiki - There is the fire pit right there, that was a nice touch.

Butch Toccoli - ya know half of the city of Stockton guys, doctors, lawyers and businessmen moved in here as they got divorced. (laughter) It was occupied by a lot of professional people.

Abstractiki - Kind of a bachelor pad in the 60’s huh? (laughter)

Butch Toccoli – Yea, (laughter)

Abstractiki - Well the fire pit is still there. I don’t know if it works any more but at least they didn’t pave over it.

Butch Toccoli - Yea.

Abstractiki – Ok, let’s go on over to the Outrigger. You know many of the apartments like this around the country have been demolished or renovated beyond recognition.

Butch Toccoli - yea, these light fixtures, it’s amazing that they are still here.

Abstractiki - Now here at the Outrigger, you see these carvings in the posts? Did your company do that?

Butch Toccoli - No he had another company carve them and then we put them up. I don’t know who they were.

Abstractiki - So on the ends of the top outrigger beams they came in and did those?

Butch Toccoli – Yea a huh

Abstractiki - Did Alex come around to the jobsite?

Butch Toccoli – Yea, Alex would have breakfast with us and we would talk about what was being done and how it was being done.

Abstractiki - Do you see these beautiful old lamps hanging under the A-frame? Do you remember where they were purchased or you who made them?

Butch Toccoli - No, Alex got those somewhere I don’t know where.

Abstractiki - Can I get a picture of you right here were I can get the Outrigger name in?

Butch Toccoli – Yea sure.

Abstractiki - This A-frame style here was really popular in the mid century Polynesian architecture. It looks like the Outrigger was a little more advanced or complex in design than the Bali Hai. Was it more difficult to build?

Butch Toccoli – No not really. Well it’s a tough structure, it’s built like the county jail. Solid as a rock. Alex had a philosophy, build it right and build it strong.

Abstractiki - Did your company ever build any other Polynesian style buildings in Stockton or in the surrounding area?

Butch Toccoli – Not in Stockton, I think in Fresno and Sacramento we built an apartment. Not this plan but the same concept. It was kind of coming on at the time.

Abstractiki - Yea, very popular at the time.

Abstractiki - Let’s go into the courtyard, here is the pool still there.

Butch Toccoli – Yea it was built by Jeremiah Pools. They are still around.

Abstractiki – Many places have filled in their pools with dirt or cement.

Abstractiki - When I was here last I talked to the manager who showed me an ornamental door handle. She said it was original to the building and the only one left. Let me show it to you. Do you remember them?

Butch Toccoli - Yea all of them were like that at one time.

Abstractiki – Butch here is a picture of the artist’s rendering of the Outrigger as it appeared in the Stockton record.

Butch Toccoli Yea I had it in my office if I could find it. My old office, we have moved three times. It was a pretty good size it was 24 by 18 or something.

Abstractiki – If you could locate that I would love to see it and take a picture of it. If you could find it please call me.

Butch Toccoli – Sure, yea, sure.

Abstractiki - It would really mean a lot to me.

Abstractiki – I wanted to give you these pictures of the Outrigger and the Bali Hai.

Butch Toccoli - Oh, thank you.

Abstractiki - Butch these Polynesian style buildings and others like them are considered sacred to enthusiasts of Americas mid century Polynesian culture. These buildings here in particular have been mentioned in books and been written about on the internet. Pictures of these buildings have been seen by people all around the United States and even over seas.

Butch Toccoli - Wow!

Abstractiki - There once were many Polynesian style buildings in the United States but over the years many of them have been torn down or renovated to the extent that much of the original architecture is unrecognizable.

Butch Toccoli – Right.

Abstractiki - These two have remained mostly unchanged and are still in good condition.I don’t know if you have heard or not but by unanimous vote the Stockton Cultural Heritage Board, at its October 5th meeting, approved the Bali Hai and Outrigger apartments as Structures of Merit.

Butch Toccoli - I’ll be darn, I did not know that.

Abstractiki – This interview will become a part of the historical record of these buildings that I have been helping to write. You are a part of the history of these fine buildings and you should be proud of the work you did.

Butch Toccoli – That’s nice. We are really proud, my Dad, me and my sons I mean we are really proud. My dad started building and or got his contractors license in 1940 so that’s how long the company has been around.

Abstractiki – Wow, that’s a very successful company. Butch I want to thank you for your time.

Butch Toccoli – You’re welcome, thank you.