warning: major episode of foot in mouth by tiki toa

This is just to let those that may be on shout that if you think that you are talking to someone you may not be. Since some think it is amusing to use my name and others names and make comments, I am asking that you be careful when using Tiki Shout as you may not be talking to who you think it is. In the past I created a alternate ID by the name KOOMBYEYAH! and couple of times I made comments that I now regret and made aplogies to those that desrved them, as of today I requested Hanford if possible to remove that ID from Tiki Central. But as of today I will not be using Tik Shout to talk with those many that I have enjoyed doing so with in the past, which for some will be a delight as they will feel like they won, if you would like to talk to me off of Tiki Shout pm me and I will give you my messenger ID's. Take care, and mahalo.
Kelly

May the aloha spirit be with you in all that you do.

Toa

[ Edited by: tiki-toa on 2004-09-08 19:48 ]

To be fair, it should be mentioned that the people who were posting as him were indeed making fun of Toa's own tendency to pose under multiple indentities in TC and in Shout. In fact I believe Toa was posting under a different name in Shout last night.

In other words, they were giving him a dose of his own medicine.

~Hanford

I thought you had to log in with your pass word to chat. Is there a way to make it that way?

Hi Laney,

Yes, you're right. What Toa is talking about is not actual identity theft ....

No one can log in as "Tiki-toa" without his password, but anyone can log in as "toa", or "tiki toa" (without the hyphen), or any other mispelling or arrangement of letters that is not a current member ID.

So if you look closely at the names on Shout and compare them to member profiles, you can tell whether or not it's the real deal or an impersonator.

Interestingly, Tiki-toa himself (I'm assuming it was him) was posting under the name "Toa", which meant anyone else could log in as "Toa" and post too. I happened to point out on Shout last night that that was possible, and the fun ensued ... :wink:

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2004-09-07 14:21 ]

On 2004-09-07 14:02, hanford_lemoore wrote:
To be fair, it should be mentioned that the people who were posting as him were indeed making fun of Toa's own tendency to pose under multiple indentities in TC and in Shout. In fact I believe Toa was posting under a different name in Shout last night.

In other words, they were giving him a dose of his own medicine.

~Hanford

Actually at NO TIME did I pretend to be someone else, I may have done 'anon' but I never used anyone else's ID at any time. last night.

My first thought is "Great, not again" This happened in the past board I was in.

Well, all I can say about this is last night there was a "troll" in the shout board. He/she read the conversation and thought it would be cute. The Toa I was talking to last night I honestly thought was him, we even talked about his project. After Hanford jumped on to board and then later mentioned he was going to "break the board" that was pretty close to the time when the "Multi-Toas" showed up being an ass. Now, I'm not saying Hanford did it just to poke fun at Tiki-Toa for his past convictions, but that was when it started to happen, (to give you guys a time frame). Hanford, I'm not blaming you.
The only thing that was said negative was who ever was posing as "Anon the Great". I suggest going through the logs and pinging ISP threads to locate the person who was responsible for insulting TikiFish, Toa, and anyone else.
I would suggest this: If you want to chat, maybe everyone should schedual a time to chat using a chat host such as AIM or MSN. If not and you want tot use Shout, be aware of imitators.

-one man aspiring to be everyone’s favorite unkle.
http://www.unklejohn.com

My Tiki Lounge http://unklejohn.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi

[ Edited by: Unkle John on 2004-09-07 16:22 ]

Tiki-Toa, were you the old lady I was talking to with the Leeteg paintings in the basement.this was last Friday night on the 3ed of Sept. What the hell????

On 2004-09-07 17:34, hiltiki wrote:
Tiki-Toa, were you the old lady I was talking to with the Leeteg paintings in the basement.this was last Friday night on the 3ed of Sept. What the hell????

No it was not me. But I heard who it might have been, but out of respect for that person and not knowing for sure I will not say anything.

May the aloha spirit be with you in all that you do.

Toa

[ Edited by: Tiki-Toa on 2004-09-07 18:05 ]

On 2004-09-07 17:34, hiltiki wrote:
Tiki-Toa, were you the old lady I was talking to with the Leeteg paintings in the basement.this was last Friday night on the 3ed of Sept. What the hell????

Fer a Tiki mug I'll give you my best guess! :wink:

-TW

Hil...I believe the person had identified himself as 'smogbreather', who, to my knowledge, is Holden of Tiki Farm. I was on shout at the time, and I enjoyed the little masquerade since there was nothing viscious or derogatory going on.

I would hope that this 'identity theft' issue does not create a negative atmosphere amongst users who enjoy a little playful diversion from time to time. Actually, I was laughing so hard at Holden's impersonation of the unassuming and uninformed tiki newbie...I nearly fell of my chair. Toa has a point, though, about any serious conversations being more suited to an IM environment. For anyone wishing to chat on yahoo with me, or e-mail me, my address is: [email protected] .
Pranksters welcome...I'll deal with ya in my own special way!!

(Warning: footnote added for clarity...)
This response was to Hiltiki in her desire to know if Tiki Toa was behind the Leeteg lady gag. I will add this for Holden's benefit...the masquerade was FUN...I was thoroughly amused and entertained as were all on Shout at the time, including Toa. And after Holden (aka smogbreather) identified himself, there was general laughter and high-fives all around for the successful diception!! Thanks for the laughs Holden!

[ Edited by: Bamboo Dude on 2004-09-08 23:04 ]

[ Edited by: Bamboo Dude on 2004-09-08 23:08 ]

Unkle John: yes I checked IP addresses before I came in and that is exactly why I think Toa is completely overreacting with this message. He was posting with different names and saying some unfriendly things. Was he the only one? No, but he was the only one that complained.

I tend to be pretty leniant until I get complaints, and to have him post this complaint message after what he was doing with his Koomb profile and Shout seems
hypocritical. Perhaps he's drawn a line in the sand that he feels he hasn't crossed but others have. But I disagree -- he's had multiple profiles and tried to make people think it was someone totally different (how weird and deceitful is this post when you realize it was Toa asking it?) It is obvious he can dish it out.

~Hanford

One more note for clarification purposes:

Shout 1.1 was specifically designed so that:

1. No one can log in as you without your password, so your username cannot be used by someone else.

2. Any other name that is not a registered Tiki Central Member name can be used instead ... including copy-cat names (names that look similar but are not exactly the same).

If you realize and pay attention to these rules and take what is written in Shout lightly there will be no troubles ... no need to use another IM client or go anywhere else ... we've never had a real problem or complaint, with the exception of this thread.

~Hanford

[ Edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 18:47 ]

You all should do a search of all posts by KOOMBYEYAH!....aka Tiki-toa. Interesting form of self-promotion. Shady.

Jerry Springer anyone?

[ Edited by Humuhumu to fix BBCode ]

[ Edited by: Humuhumu on 2004-09-08 08:52 ]

Ya know I take full blame for this mess, and the funny thing, well maybe not so funny now looking back on it was that it all started with one negative political comment about about President Bush by TIKIFISH. I regret alot of things, I apologize for a lot of things, but at least I am not afraid I feel for the most part to face the music for things I have done or said. It is funny how KOOMBYEYAH! gets thrown in my face by some. Once again this is my mess that I created for taking issue with someones polictal comment, and for some that may come off like a excuse, but, it is the truth of the whole issue. For which I again apologize for creating because of tikifish's comment.

This just gets stranger and stranger.

Toa's ongling multiple personality disorder is my fault becuase I said a bad thing about George Bush on Shout on Monday?

Get out your tinfoil hats, people!

[ Edited by: tikifish on 2004-09-08 06:51 ]

I have no problems with Canadians other then those who make negative political comments. In fact I count one of the best Canadians as a truly great friend in Tikiwahine. And at least I have been able and willing to admit and say that I was wrong.

On 2004-09-08 06:39, Tiki-Toa wrote:
I have no problems with Canadians other then those who make negative political comments. In fact I count one of the best Canadians as a truly great friend in Tikiwahine.

Oh the old standard, "I have no problem with members of group X (blacks, jews, Canadians, etc.) other than those that do Y (steal, move in my neighborhood, act uppity, make negative political comments). In fact, I have friends that are members of group X (blacks, jews, Canadians)." This is too funny!

Damn you Canadians with your negative political comments! :lol:

what about northern virginians who move into rockville - ? :D :) :P

what about all the non tiki loving Persians who move into Marina Del Rey.:) (:

On 2004-09-08 04:30, Tiki-Toa wrote:
Ya know I take full blame for this mess, and the funny thing, well maybe not so funny now looking back on it was that it all started with one negative political comment about about President Bush by TIKIFISH. I regret alot of things, I apologize for a lot of things, but at least I am not afraid I feel for the most part to face the music for things I have done or said. It is funny how KOOMBYEYAH! gets thrown in my face by some. Once again this is my mess that I created for taking issue with someones polictal comment, and for some that may come off like a excuse, but, it is the truth of the whole issue. For which I again apologize for creating because of tikifish's comment.

Tiki-Toa, you're not taking full blame, you're blatantly trying to blame Tikifish. I also fail to see exactly what "mess" you're talking about--the only person who has complained about the discussion in Shout the other night is you, and your complaint until now was based on people posting as people other than themselves. Hanford then simply pointed out that you really don't have a leg to stand on if that's your complaint. So now you're changing your complaint in a pathetic attempt to shift the focus off of you. You're the one who was begging to have the focus put on you. The only one who is accountable for your actions is you.

On 2004-09-08 06:39, Tiki-Toa wrote:
I have no problems with Canadians other then those who make negative political comments.

Uhhh...Toa? I'm not very fond of our current Prime Minister. Oh man, I'm glad no one caught on to the fact that I hate spiders. If a spider becomes Prime Minister, I'm DEFINITELY moving out of the country!

you rock, Tikiwahine!!! :) :) :)

On 2004-09-07 18:17, hanford_lemoore wrote:
...he's had multiple profiles and tried to make people think it was someone totally different (how weird and deceitful is this post when you realize it was Toa asking it?) It is obvious he can dish it out.

Well I'm glad that this has been finally put out in the open. I don't know Toa personally, but I can tell you that I think this sucks. What's the deal with all the shady behavior???

You know, this kind of behavior isn't much different than the stuff he's been trying to pull with this book he's going to "write." I put "write" in quotes because from what I could gather, he's taking all of the recipes he gathered from TC that everyone else contributed, the stories and pics that everyone else contributed, compiling them and then calling himself the author. And then he's going to sell them?! To who? To the same people who gave him the information! Pretty unethical and uncool if you ask me.

I've been trying to keep all of this to myself but this last KOOMBYEYAH identity stunt has really pissed me off.

This is NOT what TC is about.

I know I'm probably gonna get some heat for this post but it needed to be said -- too many people are complaining about it (offline) and nobody is saying anything.

**Poly-Pop ***

He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-09-08 11:49 ]

On 2004-09-07 18:11, Bamboo Dude wrote:
Hil...I believe the person had identified himself as 'smogbreather', who, to my knowledge, is Holden of Tiki Farm. I was on shout at the time, and I enjoyed the little masquerade since there was nothing viscious or derogatory going on.

I would hope that this 'identity theft' issue does not create a negative atmosphere amongst users who enjoy a little playful diversion from time to time. Actually, I was laughing so hard at Holden's impersonation of the unassuming and uninformed tiki newbie...I nearly fell of my chair. Toa has a point, though, about any serious conversations being more suited to an IM environment. For anyone wishing to chat on yahoo with me, or e-mail me, my address is: [email protected] .
Pranksters welcome...I'll deal with ya in my own special way!!

Classic! I logged on as ANON pretending to be like a little old lady with this massive collection of these paintings by Leeteg! I was sitting there laughing and thinking to myself, how would a little old lady post these. While I was posting, I was saying the posts outloud in a "little old lady" voice.Then after the hilarity and the requests for information to "gladly take these off of your hands", I logged in as Smogbreather with a "Suckers!!!" comment - I think everybody enjoyed it!
mahaloz,
Holden

On 2004-09-07 20:12, waikiki tiki wrote:
You all should do a search of all posts by KOOMBYEYAH!....aka Tiki-toa. Interesting form of self-promotion. Shady.

I noticed this a while back and didn't say anything. It's extremely shady and I'm glad that Tiki-Toa finally called himself out so I didn't have to, but since this can of worms is now open ...

It is pathetic to blame tikifish for your actions Tiki-Toa. Take some responsibility. From what I've seen/heard you've done much worse than impersonating someone on tikishout. I agree with PP about the book being unethical. It came off as a moneymaking scheme to me. Seems like you finally got a taste of your own medicine.

vw

[ Edited by: vwtikigirl on 2004-09-08 12:43 ]

On 2004-09-08 11:19, Johnny Dollar wrote:
you rock, Tikiwahine!!! :) :) :)

:blush: As do you J$, as do you.

Coming soon: Johnny Dollar and Tikiwahine rock on at the Hukilau, joined by fellow Tiki lovers and enough booze to drown the entire state of Florida.

I can hardly wait! :drink:

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[i]On 2004-09-08 11:43, PolynesianPop wrote:

You know, this kind of behavior isn't much different than the stuff he's been trying to pull with this book he's going to "write" ...

I've been trying to keep all of this to myself but this last identity stunt has really pissed me off ...

I know I'm probably gonna get some heat for this post but it needed to be said -- too many people are complaining about it (offline) and nobody is saying anything ...

No heat from me, Pop! In fact, I'm w/ you 100%.

I've also been trying to keep this to myself, but reading about the KOOMBYEYAH crap & seeing how he dumped on tikifish, I figure it's my civic duty to blather!

Before Toa posted the "tiki book" thread on TC he sent out an email w/ a gazillion addresses on it (all should have been BCC'ed - I cringe to think what somebody might do w/ all those addresses)!

I got a funny feeling from the email. It read like a marketing survey & just seemed disingenuous. Also, I felt suspicious about Toa saying in the email that s/he would include recipes “gathered and collected over the years,” when just recently Toa had compiled all the TC recipes.

I was surprised by the overwhelming response from folks interested in contributing to his/her book. Didn’t that email & the subsequent post weird out anyone else?

However, I didn’t, until this thread, question his/her motives. I just thought s/he was a lot hokier than me (if that’s even possible!).

Just my 2¢,
Tiki Chris

[ Edited by: Tiki Chris on 2004-09-08 12:18 ]

Who was I to stand in anyones way of being celebrated by someone who just wanted to "celebrate those of us, who celebrate tiki"? All one had to do was look, there were PLENTY of red flags!

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2004-09-08 12:48 ]

And people ask me, "Why don't you chime in on TC anymore?"

Now I remember!

Toa
Always remember, "May the aloha spirit be with you in all that you do".

WOW it is nice to know that some people have never made a mistake in their lives.

Tikifish...truly, sorry.

On 2004-09-08 11:43, PolynesianPop wrote:

On 2004-09-07 18:17, hanford_lemoore wrote:
...he's had multiple profiles and tried to make people think it was someone totally different (how weird and deceitful is this post when you realize it was Toa asking it?) It is obvious he can dish it out.

Well I'm glad that this has been finally put out in the open. I don't know Toa personally, but I can tell you that I think this sucks. What's the deal with all the shady behavior???

You know, this kind of behavior isn't much different than the stuff he's been trying to pull with this book he's going to "write." I put "write" in quotes because from what I could gather, he's taking all of the recipes he gathered from TC that everyone else contributed, the stories and pics that everyone else contributed, compiling them and then calling himself the author. And then he's going to sell them?! To who? To the same people who gave him the information! Pretty unethical and uncool if you ask me.

I've been trying to keep all of this to myself but this last KOOMBYEYAH identity stunt has really pissed me off.

This is NOT what TC is about.

I know I'm probably gonna get some heat for this post but it needed to be said -- too many people are complaining about it (offline) and nobody is saying anything.

---

**Poly-Pop ***

He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-09-08 11:49 ]

To address a number of Polypops points because they are valid, though I wish he could have made them sooner I will try my best to address them now.

1. As a week ago I made the choice to remove all tiki cental recipes, and I even talked about this with Duke Carter as of last night, feel free to contact him as I am sure many will not believe me.

2. http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10348&forum=11&vpost=107761 that I made as KOOMBYEYAH! was a crack on myself and how so many have issue with my number of posts and how people have an issue without really knowing me.

3. I was not sure I even wanted to do this book project in the first place until I talked to Duke about it, and from his support of my idea I went ahead with it. Even after he warned me that by going to a publisher that I would make very little money on it.

4. I am trying to do a honest collection of things tiki, something that is not like what others have done. If I was a carver and I did a cannibal tiki would I be ripping someone else off by doing so? But I have no claims to be Sven, or Duke, or even JT. I am just trying to make an idea happen, and it may never reach publication. You know when Founder came to me and said he wanted to do the cover after reading what I was trying to do I knew that at least he and others supported the idea of it. While others have issue with it but say nothing.

5. To vwtikigirl, feel free to contact Duke Carter if you think that this is about money, ya know for someone that I have never ever had a converstaion with you are sorely wrong.

6. I did blame tikifish for my actions, I stated why I wrongly made the actions I did, because of took issue with her comment, again to Tikifish I APOLOGIZE for my actions.

Toa,
The issue I have with your book project is it seems to blatantly capitalize on the contributions of everyone else. You are taking what they are giving, compiling it and then turning around to sell it right back to them!

And you keep bringing up the money issue. I don't care if you are not making money -- that is not the point. The point is you are exploiting the generosity of those who contributed.

You've found a way to get someone to give you their shirt and then sell it back to them -- and make them feel good about it!

Shady, Shady, Shady....

**Poly-Pop ***

He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ Edited by: polynesianpop on 2004-09-08 15:30 ]

My apologies for saying you were in it for the money. I guess you have your own reasons, but I won't apologize for saying things you've done have been very shady.

Enough with the pile up already. I am not defending or supporting anyones stance or behavior in this but why do we feel the need to all jump on the "yeah, what he said!" wagon.

Toa had egg on his face after Hanford's second post and does not need a public stoning. Its real easy to jump on top of the pile when some one is already underneath.

The damage is done. Let it go.

Inquisition???

Let me just start by saying that I don't know Toa from Adam but I have talked to him a few times on the phone and know that he is not doing the book for the money but for the love of tiki. I talked to him before this thread started and he said that Duke told him if he was into it for the money then don't do it for there is no money in it.

I just talked to him on the phone and he seems very upset. He apologised for his mistakes. Where's the Aloha spirit? This guy was so excited about Hukilau but is now considering cancelling his trip.

I'm not taking sides and I don't know what exactly happened on tiki shout but people make mistakes and I think people are inclined to forgiveness unless maybe if your Hitler (who deserves to have pineapples shoved in his ass in hell). Oppps I just brought politics into this again. Please strike that from the record.

I'm Flounder and I approve this message.

Enough with the pile up already. I am not defending or supporting anyones stance or behavior in this but why do we feel the need to all jump on the "yeah, what he said!" wagon.

Toa had egg on his face after Hanford's second post and does not need a public stoning. Its real easy to jump on top of the pile when some one is already underneath.

The damage is done. Let it go.

Well said Monkeyman. I don’t necessarily agree with what Toa did, but I don’t know the guy personally and I have no idea what his intentions were. I do think Hanford calling him out was humorous, but it seems to have gotten out of hand. If you have a problem with Toa, ignore him and ignore what he does. If you think he's exploiting this board to create a book of other people's ideals to make a profit, don't buy it. I just fail to see what any of this has to do with the POSITIVE promotion of the tiki culture which is purpose of this board. We should just let this thread die.

Now, does anyone want to vote for me for president?

[ Edited by: SON OF MOTHRA on 2004-09-08 22:10 ]

Hey Everyone!

I just got home and saw this thread and since my name was brought into it, I thought I should respond. I did speak with Tiki-Toa last night while I was on my way to Michigan to bury my best friend for the last 15 years (my dog Curly). I have talked with Toa a few times—he contacted Amy and me while he was putting together the event in Wisconsin and more recently with questions regarding his hope to do a book. We also had the pleasure of meeting him and his family when they came down to Chicago for lunch at the Chef Shangri-La over ITD weekend.

Last night Toa mentioned to me that a bunch of folks on Tiki Central were pissed at him, and when I asked "why" he said he had a disagreement with someone in the "Shout" forum but genuinely seemed nonplussed as to why other people were angry.

I can't speak to any of the accusations or grievances being aired in this thread. We have been very busy this summer and have not kept up on Tiki Central as much as we'd like to. I've never used the "Shout" forum (I'm too slow a typist to do any "chatting." Amy will tell you, it takes me forever to write an email or post a reply like this) so I don't know what the problem is. If it's about politics, I thought Hanford (rightly) banned that topic from Tiki Central. I do think it's kinda' weird to troll for feedback about yourself, but people do strange things all the time.

I can speak to what I have been privy to with regards to Toa's intentions with the book idea. He has never given me any indication that he was looking to "cash in" on Tiki Central or its members. While his enthusiasm has been a little over-the-top at times, and his ambitions (in my opinion) very lofty (I mean, the guy tried do a large Tiki event single handedly, and it cost him a fair amount of money out of his pocket) I think the worst thing he could be accused of was some naiveté'. I told him that it is difficult to get a publisher to accept your idea, harder still to put an entire book together in a cohesive manner, and next to impossible to make a dollar or two doing it. We even discussed the fact that perhaps the idea would make a better (free) website than book.

While nobody knows what is in a person's heart, it seemed to me that his passion and exuberance for Tiki (as well as the Tiki community that Tiki Central has created) is genuine. In the end, Tiki-Toa will, as everyone does, have to be accountable for what he says and does and I am not going to defend or justify anyone's behavior here. It does bother me when people feel that they can not express themselves freely here for fear of being group-berated and that sometimes there is a "pile-on" mentality. I had hoped that past instances of ugliness and questions of "what has changed" had sorted this out and that things were getting back to a more positive aloha spirit.

On that note, I know that lots of folks (Amy and I included) are really looking forward to the Hukilau and I hope that perhaps when people have the opportunity to meet face-to-face and to talk about things in more than short posts and emails, that maybe they will see what they have in common rather than their differences, maybe some fences can be mended, and everyone can share a mai-tai and a good time that will carry them through until the next big get-together.

Just my thoughts, take them for whatever they're worth.

-Duke

I've said it on the "creating tiki" post and I'll say it hear. he Toa bashing has gone past "having some fun" and into "Trash-mode." It's a bit overkill isn't it? Toa has already paid for his indescretions ten-fold in embarasment. Let it go, and hope that your own skeletons aren't made public, whether on TC or elsewhere.

The Mai Tais are on me.

http://www.NiceFishy.com

[ Edited by: Raffertiki on 2004-09-08 17:20 ]

I think its somewhat ironic that everyone seems to keep bringing up the "not doing it for the money issue" because as I've stated before, what bothers many is not the profitability aspect but rather the way the project has been gone about. I know that a lot of people were offended by even the proposition of this book and I don't think anybody ever thought that anyone would get rich off of it.

On 2004-09-08 16:35, boutiki wrote:
It does bother me when people feel that they can not express themselves freely here for fear of being group-berated and that sometimes there is a "pile-on" mentality.

I agree.

Yes, it is a shame when people feel that they can not express themselves freely here. As such, those who feel exploited about this book project or other past mis-doings should not be reprimanded for stating those feelings either.

Oh, and for the record, the frustrations I posted are not the thoughts of just one person but MANY people.

**Poly-Pop ***

He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-09-08 18:49 ]

On 2004-09-08 16:13, FLOUNDERart wrote:
I think people are inclined to forgiveness unless maybe if your Hitler (who deserves to have pineapples shoved in his ass in hell).

Nice try Flounder, but I'm afraid Pablus will never forgive you.

This thread reminds me of the summer of freeway shootings down in Lo Cal. Wild wild west.

On 2004-09-08 19:13, Kailuageoff wrote:

On 2004-09-08 16:13, FLOUNDERart wrote:
I think people are inclined to forgiveness unless maybe if your Hitler (who deserves to have pineapples shoved in his ass in hell).

Nice try Flounder, but I'm afraid Pablus will never forgive you.

Damn it!

Not to be glib, but you do reap what you sow...what you do comes, back to you. Good, bad or whatever, it is what it is. Deal with it and hopefully you can learn from it...if not, then why bother?

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2004-09-08 20:14 ]

On 2004-09-08 16:03, Monkeyman wrote:
Enough with the pile up already. I am not defending or supporting anyones stance or behavior in this but why do we feel the need to all jump on the "yeah, what he said!" wagon.

Toa had egg on his face after Hanford's second post and does not need a public stoning. Its real easy to jump on top of the pile when some one is already underneath.

The damage is done. Let it go.

Good for you MM.
Poly Pop...Did Toa give you any reason to believe that he was going to publish his book without the permission of those whose contributions he included?? Did he indicate that he might publish some of your TC material?? Lastly, it could be suggested that Toa actually charge an insertion fee for all contributions to help defray the costs of publication, and still I believe he would have had no shortage of contributors. I thought the idea was grand...if not a little grandiose. A book that TCers can refer to for get togethers..."hey, have you tried Tiki Bongs recipe on page 45??" I hope he goes through with it... just my humble opinion.