Venting anger so I don't pop a vein

I'm doing a job at an animation house in Sherman Oaks right now. They've offerred me a staff position, but I don't think I'm going to take it, I would have to work under this whiney evil little bitch. I have no problem working under women, I've worked under lots of really great ladies who were totally on top of their game and that I totally respected, I just can't stand whiney, shady people. This broad has less experience than I do, can't do the work I can produce, and is really shady in that she keeps telling the owner how she has to fix everyone elses work and tries to make it seem like she's the one thats responsible for saving each project, I can't stand that. The owner here loves her becasue she asks him about his love life everyday, somebody shoot me!!! This chicks slowness and just the way she works has slowed me down so much, but I am not the type of person to go complain to the boss man about a fellow employee, yet I sit there and listen to her tell him how she had to fix my work so that he would be able to get his delivery out on time. Sorry she and I both came into work yesterday, she went home at 5 PM, I went home at 5 AM this morning, listening to her self glorifing herself to the boss just pissed me off I just needed to vent. I think I'm probably going to be passing on the staff position here.

On a positive note, while I was waiting for a comp to render I was able to sneak out for an hour and I caught The Mai Kai Gents at The Bigfoot Lodge. Had it not been for that I might have snapped, there would be a new sniper on the lose. Only instead of shooting people I would club them over the head with a giant tiki!!!

Sorry to hear about that, sam. Sounds frustrating. Will you explain to them why you are passing on the staff position? I can understand not wanting to knock your co-workers, but when they're losing potential employees, it seems like they should know. It'll probably go in one ear and out the other, but you'll know you did the right thing. And who knows, maybe they won't get rid of this woman, but they may be willing to hire you under someone else.

Office politics rears its ugly head. It just seems to be universal. And being a master of timing...Sam, I have been meaning to ask you and all other Tiki Central cartoonist/animators about how you got in the business. My son is a sophomore in high school and wants to get into this field. (I should make him read your post.) Do you have any recommendations for schooling or programs. (...Besides hours and hours of TV cartoon viewing. He already has that down pat.)

I guess we've all dealt with morons at the workplace. I too, was extremely frustrated at one place I worked, not by a supervisor, but by someone lower than me on the totem pole, not even in my department, who yielded much more power than V.P.s in the office. This bitch barely had a high school education, and was as pleasant as a rabid porcupine who'd just been sprayed by a skunk, but she had the wool pulled over an E.V.P.'s eyes (who himself was manic depressive with a Napoleonic complex), and everyone was powerless to do anything but suffer. No less than THREE V.P.s left the place within 14 months, due mostly to those two idiots.

I was not aware of the corporate politics/dynamics of the place when I took the job. Had I known, I would have NEVER taken it. (BTW, I stayed there only 9 months myself.) You're MUCH better off passing on a (known) situation like this. It would only cause you misery.

I don't know what this accomplished (other than mildly therapeutic for me)...put it in the "Misery Loves Company" file.

On to better things...like drinking!

Hold me closer, tiki dancer.

[ Edited by: TikiMikey on 2002-10-28 15:29 ]

hey MrTikiBar, depends on what kind of animation he wants to get into. Pretty much after high school he'll have to go either to an art school or a school with a good art program. I really only know about Cali schools, the good art schools in Cali are Art Center, Otis, and Cal Arts (I think Art Center is mostly a design school though, Cal Arts was founded by Disney to produce animators). A non art school with a good art department is Long Beach State (this is the school that produced Shag). If he wants to get into 3D the basic programs to know are 3D Max or Maya. 3d Max is really easy to learn. If he does the first 8 tutorials he'll know enough to do mostly anything he wants to do on it, but Maya is whats mostly used for film these days.

Actually getting a job after college, usually will mean doing a free internship somewhere for awhile until he gets hired on full time. The job market for 3d animators is really saturated right now, though. Allot of people are working less and making less money just because of how many 3d animators there are out there.

Hey Tikimikey of course the only thing venting accomplishes is being therapuetic but hey if we didn't vent every once in awhile all the junk would start to collect and build up, next thing you know your writing a manifesto and mailing blow up packages. If only the unibomber had a board on line to gripe about life on, but I guess his whole stance on technology got in the way of that.

[ Edited by: suicide_sam on 2002-10-28 16:21 ]

Suicide-Sam,
Thanks for the information. I'll pass it on to my son. Sounds really competitive, but what isn't these days. I read a couple days ago that Phil Knight (Nike) bought, or was buying, Will Vinton Studios here in Portland.
Vinton does clay-mation and is probably most famous for The California Grapes campaign. The plan, apparently, is to focus on feature length films. I wonder if the artwork will end up being done overseas? I would guess not
as it is such a skilled occupation as opposed to making shoes.
Thanks again, and good luck with your endeavor.

great an animation rant forum, I've just taken five years out of my animation degree and after two years of aranging my life to get back to collage I managed it. i got back in but for the last two weeks the collage insted of teaching us practical things like 3d max or even clay modelling they had a french mime artist teaching us to move, which i can see the practical side too but i hate mimes, that whole noseybonk vibe, benny hill's sad clown removing his skin, they freak me out, and the mime we got in was to touchy feely, invade my space again frog boy and i'll nail you into your invisible box.
And this course is pants they don't even expect us to do animation this term just an animatic and only fifteen seconds long and there slack attitued affecting me giving me animators block, bastards growl grunt...

Hey, Suicide Sam, you're right: Art Center is a design school (I went there). It's a great school, but very expensive. They do have an "entertainment design" track in the industrial design dept. now so teachers can't yell at you for designing theme park rides like I did when I was there.

The BIG 2 for animation are Cal Arts, like you said, and Sheridan (in Toronto, I think). The movie fx houses recruit a huge number of new animators from there. And, yes, there is a huge glut of animators out there these days. Almost anyone can learn a 3D program, and it seems almost everyone has, so you have to have that little extra something (like a good idea or highly stylized animation) to get noticed.

I thought Wil Vinton only did stop-motion animation, not digital stuff. I still think The PJ's was the greatest show ever (anyone remember that?).

It seems to me that good people always find work, no matter what the market. And if you're not good, work on those ass-kissing, people skills - plenty of people out there without a lick of talent who are working, too.

Yeah me and Johnny Velour were remembering about getting work after college at The Mai Kai Gent's show the other night. The one thing schools don't tell you is that in the industry it's not so much what you know as it is who you know. I've always been really bad at work related schmoozing. If I'm just partying with people I know and like I am very social but that whole making business connections thing was just never my bag.

On 2002-10-29 12:16, Tiki-bot wrote:
And if you're not good, work on those ass-kissing, people skills

By the way Tikibot, talked with Jack recently?

On 2002-10-29 12:31, suicide_sam wrote:
The one thing schools don't tell you is that in the industry it's not so much what you know as it is who you know.

That's the truth! My best advice to the young animator just starting out is to get involved in SIGGRAPH and meet tons of people. After graduating from UCLA I got several great opportunities from the people I met through this organization. Volunteer to work at the annual conference and get active in the Executive Council.

Also, after working in the industry for several years, I learned that if you want to truly animate - learn to tell a story. The studios see so many Chromosaurus portfolios and not enough Luxos. Yah you can get a lead on a job with solid technical skills, but you'll really get noticed if you have ideas and understand emotion, motivation and movement - so the really good animators take acting classes, writing worksops and yes, maybe even a mime class!

Sadly though, office politics happen everywhere and there is just no getting around basic human nature. Sometimes you get lucky and the issues are minor, but most of the time they are not. Hopefully you are doing something you love enough to get past the bs to make it all worthwhile and learn to be a better more tolerant person from the adversity - or least that's what I keep telling myself :)

Oh and tikibot - the PJs was way excellent - highly underated.

[ Edited by: Futura Girl on 2002-10-30 04:15 ]

On 2002-10-30 00:52, hanford_lemoore wrote:

On 2002-10-29 12:16, Tiki-bot wrote:
And if you're not good, work on those ass-kissing, people skills

By the way Tikibot, talked with Jack recently?

No, but speaking of no-talent ass-kissers, I DID see Steve at E3 this year. Jack was scheduled to show up at the LEC booth while I was there, but he was late and I missed him. Probably all for the better - those booth walls aren't very strong and probably couldn't withstand a person being thrown up against them.

Yes, Sheridan College in Toronto is one of the best schools I hear. Of course, there are no tiki bars here for inspiration. I should know.

Being a CalArts alum - I can state for the case, that - yes who you know is much more important than raw talent. Sad, but true. I know many people who have minimal talent still at Disney, while there have been so many people who are artistic GODS that have been mercilessly laid off...
Having said that, CalArts is probably one of the best schools to learn animation!

On 2002-10-30 16:06, Tangaroa wrote:
....many people who have minimal talent still at Disney, while there have been so many people who are artistic GODS that have been mercilessly laid off...

Aloha Tangaroa. I have seen the same thing happen at other companies (than where I am now). What's important to note is whether those "artistic GODS" had reasonable people skills to go along with their talent. Often they don't.
I have personally been involved in situations where we hired who we thought was the "less talented" of 2 people because we thought they would be easier to work with, and we were right. Lack of simple business and social skills seems to be a constant among creative types. Though not with anyone here :)

Tiki-bot,
I can totally relate to that. A few years back we hired a technical whiz kid (19 years old). He knew the ins and outs of our systems and could configure just about any scenario we threw at him. Unfortunately, he also had the maturity to go along with his age. He could never apply our business model to what we were trying to accomplish and as such, we had to let him go.

The person we hired to replace him was significantly older and as green as can be but his maturity made all the difference. He was ambitious and willing to learn everything he could - while keeping focused on the task at hand.

The lesson learned -- Sometimes the best ones aren't the most skilled.

Lack of simple business and social skills seems to be a constant among creative types

how well observed, sometimes i think my animation schoool should have the motto..

"you don't have to be shy and socially inept to study here....But it helps"

Tikibot -
Yeah - there was one painter at Imagineering who I absolutely worshiped - I tried taking a few lessons from him in my down time, but it was sooooo painful - he just couldn't explain what he did in a way that I could relate to. He was kinda a character - he used to do jumping jacks up on the roof at lunchtime! He really was one of the best painters there...
Anyway - he got laid off, while other less talented souls (who were much more politically savvy) were kept around...

Hey Tangaroa. Do you know or have you worked with Joe Rhode?

I interviewed with him once to get on one of his projects - he seemed like a nice enough guy, even though he didn't hire me! His earrings are a trip.....Probably the only exec at Disney that can get away with that...

Warning Very Much off Topic Folks.

He is quite the talented guy. He was actually my High School Fine Arts teacher. I always knew he would make it big. I remember when he talked about applying for a position at Disney. He had a bizarre sense of humor. At the time he was working on a calender. One scene in particular I remember was this muscle bound guy with a sword and loin cloth protecting a scantily clad buxom beaty from a giant Panda coming out of the jungle.

Saw the talk about socially ineptness going in hand with creativity, I was going to mention that it also sometimes goes in hand with brilliance. When I used to be at Rezn8 Productions there was this guy that worked there who was seriously a genius. He was in Mensa and was constantly getting offers to work for lots of bigger companies like right under Bill Gates, NASA, government intelligence, etc, etc.. But the guy was happy at Rezn8 so he just stayed there, he didn't like change and he probably felt comfortable there. The kind of guy that hardly ever talks to anyone, always wore the same clothes, looked like he had the same haircut since he was 8 years old, and had the exact same thing for lunch from the exact same place every day for years. One day he didn't show up to work, no call, no nothing. Next day he didn't show up again, this was very unlike him so they called him to see if he was okay and got no answer, his family was conatcted and a full on search was under way. a week later they found his car parked outside a parlk in Oceanside. Turned out he threw himself off some cliff into the water and killed himself. No one even knew there was anything wrong with him.