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Tiki Central / Collecting Tiki

Is this even LEGAL?!?!

Pages: 1 2 61 replies

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TheMuggler posted on 06/21/2002

I know we have discussed Shag rip off look alike artists, but this guy not only rips off the style but the subject and composition as well!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=885512840

Geesh, are people really buying this stuff?

-Mike

D
dogbytes posted on 06/22/2002

im stunned.
wordless.

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Turbogod posted on 06/22/2002

And I don't think he mentions shag at all.

K
kongtiki posted on 06/22/2002

Oh, but he DID mention Shag after some prodding:

My email to the "artist':
Is this an intentional rip off of Shag, or what exactly are you doing here with this more or less note for note copy of his work?

The response came back:
"Why on earth would you e-mail me? It is not a point by point, look at
Shag's. Do me a favor, go away."

Charming. And obvioiusly, it opens up a whole new way of approaching artistic endeavors.

D
dogbytes posted on 06/22/2002

ok, who has Josh's email address? its time to use the Mail This Auction To A Friend feature.

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fatuhiva posted on 06/23/2002

that is classic

im buyin it

M
midnite posted on 06/24/2002

re:"Is this even LEGAL?!?!"

Well, either we didn't cover it, or (likelier) I was asleep during that lecture in Copyright Law, but it certainly looks like a "cease" letter is in order from Josh's counsel. Some of the stuff I see on Ebay is simply derivative of Josh's "style". This one is way past that level, straight into "no-no" area.

No comments on Josh's talents or how easy it seems for someone to copy his work. I left art school for law school a LONG time ago...and now do neither!

Gotta put this "copycat" guy below the Ebay scam sellers that tried to pass of Shag greeting cards as something more. I sent some emails out about those scamsters.

midnite

T
Turbogod posted on 06/25/2002

Josh's email. shag@shag-art.com Josh takes the time to respond to your emails. I think that's just great. Livin' in Balto, MD that is the closest I will probably ever get to meeting him, as no one ever comes here.

[ Edited by: Turbogod on 2002-06-24 21:54 ]

K
kahukini posted on 06/25/2002

Shag is planning to coordinate a showing in Atlanta with us for next year's HUKILAU, so you'll have to come down for that... only 11 hours by car!

[ Edited by: kahukini on 2002-06-24 22:21 ]

CC
Cherry Capri posted on 06/25/2002

I adore Shag and we have even hired him to work on our band logo, but even he admits to borrowing style from other artists. Check out the work of Gene Deitch and Jim Flora sometime and you will see the fountainhead of his inspiration.
The work in this eBay auction actually has more in common with Disney's Academy Award winning Ward Kimball's Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom than a rip-off of Shag. And the poor fellow certainly isn't getting the $1000+ price tag for his work that Shag deservedly gets.

K
kahukini posted on 06/25/2002

short clips from that cartoon are on this page, I see what you are talking about http://www.reelclassics.com/Gallery/video3.htm

CC
Cherry Capri posted on 06/25/2002

cool + thanks! I have been looking for clips of this cartoon online. i mean that ebay painting was derivitive of Shag's Three Musicians... but this helps put it all in perspective. Plus, you know Shag was just updating his own version of Picasso's Three Musicians, too! That's why we love him because of his cultural nods to all the things we love from Planet of the Apes to Nancy and Lee playing the Roxy!

S
Swanky posted on 06/25/2002

Actually, send the Ebay guy's image to Switched On. they represent Shag's art and rights. I'd say he would just forward it to them anyway.

M
mig posted on 06/25/2002

Recently, in Portland, Frenchy took me to a store called Home Ec. Lots of cute things there-- but they were indeed also selling numerous (probably about a dozen) direct ripoffs of Shag paintings. Direct as in, direct copies, painted by someone on canvas.

K
kongtiki posted on 06/28/2002

Har haw! More of the same:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=890031805

There's some poor child chained up in a basement somewhere cranking these things out...

M
mig posted on 06/28/2002

Kongtiki--

THAT'S the one I was talking about! Artist in Portland painting direct and blatant Shag ripoffs...

The fact that the ripoff is being resold cracks me up. At least the guy is honest about what it is....

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Turbogod posted on 07/01/2002

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=891148485 That is one busy kid

:sheckymug:


[ Edited by: Turbogod on 2002-07-01 14:29 ]

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dogbytes posted on 07/01/2002

i ratted the rip-off artist out to josh. (he replied) now he can unleash the goons (well, ok, get the legal dudes to send a letter)..

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jukeboy56 posted on 11/10/2002

This one's such an outright copy it's disturbing. Somebody want to send the link to Josh?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920819995

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SullTiki posted on 11/10/2002

How can you say this is a copy? It's so obvious the ebay "artist" took great pain to make sure his/her/its painting was a complete original. Here is what I noticed, the first column is from SHAG's painting the 2 column ebay "artist":

purple hair - black hair
shoes on - shoes off
book on floor "how to look at art" - cat
gloves - no gloves
talking on phone - not
smoking - drinking
brilliant work of art - piece of crap

[ Edited by: SullTiki on 2002-11-10 19:32 ]

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Turbogod posted on 11/10/2002

Besides a shag fan they obviously like Tommy Tutone.

B
bigbrotiki posted on 11/11/2002

Oh man...I told Josh he should start collecting these! ....but I don't think he is

SOMEBODY start collecting them, please, they are so funny, they are the thrift store paintings of the future!

J
jukeboy56 posted on 11/11/2002

Although the following paintings aren't trying to rip Shag off, check out the two wahines:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1785112260

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tikifish posted on 11/11/2002

Those arent Shag ripoffs, those are TIKIFISH ripoffs! The lack of a substantial nose? The leis? The helmet hair? It all screams TIKIFISH!!!

(Now where's MaD-TikI to kick this thread up a notch?)

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tikimug posted on 11/11/2002

Sorry tikifish they just don't capture the sausage fingers and cankles that are your trademarks of your artwork! :wink:

TR
Tiki Rider posted on 11/11/2002

Its definitely not an original style but I dont think the artist is trying to hide anything or rip people off...they give reference and credit to Shag in the headline "Shag like" painting.

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SullTiki posted on 11/11/2002

Check out the auction and now look at SHAG's original "The Stairs"...

Now tell me you feel the same way.

[ Edited by: SullTiki on 2002-11-11 11:35 ]

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tikimug posted on 11/11/2002

On 2002-11-11 11:19, Tiki Rider Five-O wrote:
Its definitely not an original style but I dont think the artist is trying to hide anything or rip people off...they give reference and credit to Shag in the headline "Shag like" painting.

And the artist is named Nakhov You know like in Knock-off

TR
Tiki Rider posted on 11/11/2002

Great observation! "Nakov".
Book 'em Dano...nah, There's no serious rip off intent here. Their not passing it off as a Shag original. The "artist" is having some fun and if somebody is willing to bid on it no big deal. Some say that impersonation or copying is the highest form of compliment that can be made of something. Maybe thats the case here. I know.. maybe Shag could come out with a paint by number kit for his followers...this way at least the "ripoffs" would look better.

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tikifish posted on 11/11/2002

I still don't get it. If they like Shag so much, why not just buy a print? I would imagine the pople that buy these are the same ones who buy designer impostors(tm) perfume....

Which, by the way, has some awesome fragrance names. I just checked out their website:

Ninja
If you like Opium®, you'll love our Ninja.

H
Humuhumu posted on 11/12/2002

My apologies for this very off-topic interjection, but I can't let a Ninja reference pass by without thinking of this:

http://www.realultimatepower.net

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TikiManiac posted on 11/12/2002

Why hasn't anybody noted that this is in all likelihood illegal?!? This guy is breaking a copyright...Shag could sue him...and at the very least, have Ebay cancel the auction...

H
Humuhumu posted on 11/12/2002

I'm with TikiManiac - I know we go round and round (and round) on this subject, but I really think this goes waaaaay beyond the sincerest form of flattery, and I don't care if the guy is owning up to this being a copy. I think it should get yanked by ebay.


The best tiki bar is the one that's within stumbling distance of your bed
The Humuhumu Room

[ Edited by: Humuhumu on 2002-11-11 17:24 ]

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Trader_Rick posted on 11/12/2002

I'm with Sulltiki. This painting sucks. The woman in the original looks classy, the girl in the rip-off painting looks like a drunken slut. I can't believe someone bid on this thing. Oh wait, yes I can, b/c people here have bid on much worse crap! Just kidding.

If someone wants a Shag painting badly but it is beyond their, then yeah, they should buy a print. Or make a photocopy out of one of his books. Or a Monsieur Z painting! :D

I wonder when knock-off Shag mugs will start appearing on eBay? Even if they said "replica Shag mug," I'm sure Shag and Holden would have enough of a case to shut down the auction.

Hmm, what about a "Shag-like" mug?

[ Edited by: Trader_Rick on 2002-11-12 03:42 ]

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tikifish posted on 11/12/2002

On 2002-11-12 03:41, Trader_Rick wrote:
I'm with Sulltiki. This painting sucks. The woman in the original looks classy, the girl in the rip-off painting looks like a drunken slut.

-What have you got against drunken sluts?

K
KokomoTikiBar&Grill posted on 11/12/2002

Hey where is the Mad Tiki? Isnt he supposed to be defending this "Knockoff" dude?

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tikimug posted on 11/12/2002

On 2002-11-12 06:43, tikifish wrote:

-What have you got against drunken sluts?

There is nothing better in this world than drunken sluts... if it wasn't for them I'd never had gotten lai... NEVERMIND!

And now ON topic, I personally don't get it, why paint a cheap imatation? Are you paying homage to the original or just trying to cash in on the hype? Or better yet, why would you want to own a cheap imatation? There shouldn't be a market out there for this crap.

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tikifish posted on 11/12/2002

They're definitely just trying to cash in on the hype. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to wake up and smell the pupus.

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TikiManiac posted on 11/15/2002

I contacted Ebay about this travesty and they said that unless Shag himself reports the item, they are not authorized to make any assumptions as to whether or not the painting is a copy and end the auction. We are living in a capitalist world where you can lie, cheat, and STEAL to get rich. How tragic...

J
jukeboy56 posted on 11/15/2002

On 2002-11-15 09:42, TikiManiac wrote:
I contacted Ebay about this travesty and they said that unless Shag himself reports the item, they are not authorized to make any assumptions as to whether or not the painting is a copy and end the auction. We are living in a capitalist world where you can lie, cheat, and STEAL to get rich. How tragic...

While I don't like this painting, or the fact that eBay won't do anything about protecting Shag's rights, you can't fault capitalism. In fact capitalism, free markets and supply & demand will set the proper price for this cheap copy -- and it won't be very high.
As far as getting "rich", I doubt that the artist who created this copy ever will, considering the cost of time and materials it took to create it. The bidder's aren't exactly knocking each other out of the running to get the thing. (One bid with 6 hours left to go)
Speaking from my experience as a painter with a few sales under my belt, I would bet that whoever created this thing could do MUCH better economically by creating something original and putting it in their local artist's association co-op gallery. Maybe this failure to reap the kinds of prices that Shag's work does will send this painter back to working on his own ideas and developing his own style.

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tikifish posted on 11/15/2002

No, this artist (make that CON artist) has broken no laws here. He has every right to sell this crap to anyone crazy enough to buy it. However, he's broken several karmic laws:

-Thou shall not rip off original and creative ideas of others to make a profit

-Thou shall not take the likeness of drunken sluts in vain

-Thou shalt not call thine art a 'homage', unless it is truthfully labelled as 'homage to greed.'

J
jukeboy56 posted on 11/15/2002

On 2002-11-15 10:07, tikifish wrote:
....However, he's broken several karmic laws...

And what goes around karmas around. May a plague of hairline cracks descend upon his mug collection!

M
MaD-TiKi posted on 11/15/2002

On 2002-11-15 10:07, tikifish wrote:
No, this artist (make that CON artist) has broken no laws here. He has every right to sell this crap to anyone crazy enough to buy it. However, he's broken several karmic laws:

-Thou shall not rip off original and creative ideas of others to make a profit

Well here is someone listing auctions that is doing the same thing. Ripping off the Original artist for his own profit. Yes he does say he cast them but puts the year the Original Artist made them. What a rip off. That much money for them I want the Original. Heres the link to them.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=nedyahr&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25

There I'm Back, Have fun with it.
MaD-TiKi :evil:

Now I go Back to Tiki Sleep!!!!

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TikiManiac posted on 11/15/2002

Uh-oh...I reckon we're about to witness a battle here...in one corner we have, KokomoTikiBar&Grill and in the other corner, we have Mad-Tiki...
As I have seen other Tiki Centralites post: Can't we all just get along?!?

K
KokomoTikiBar&Grill posted on 11/15/2002

If I wanted any lip from you Mad Tiki, I would have scraped it off of some queers zipper! So there! Penis Ear Puppy Moai BOY!

[ Edited by: KokomoTikiBar&Grill on 2002-11-15 14:43 ]

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fartsatune posted on 11/15/2002

Kokomo if you make a mad-tiki mug....I am buying! You can call it the Penis Ear Puppy Boy Moai Mug. I think others here would be interested?

[ Edited by: fartsatune on 2002-11-15 14:50 ]

R
Reever posted on 11/15/2002

If you like Opium®, you'll love our Ninja.

I just fell out of my chair. I want to create a company just so that I can have that as a tagline.


Reever
reever@hotmail.com

[ Edited by: Reever on 2002-11-15 15:22 ]

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aquarj posted on 11/16/2002

We are living in a capitalist world where you can lie, cheat, and STEAL to get rich.

Thank god we're not living in a socialist world where lying, cheating and stealing are the ONLY ways to get rich!

Sorry for the pseudo-political commentary.

-Randy

Pages: 1 2 61 replies