Dreaming of my lagoon....

Aloha! Well it's almost time for me to begin my dream project for the backyard and I thought I’d share my plans with all you creative TC’rs to help inspire me to get going. We're finishing up some indoor remodeling projects and soon I'll be getting into it. It's my little lagoon and waterfall. I want to call it "The Tiki Grotto".

I want to make it out of concrete, like a koi pond, but I want a pool filter hooked up to it and it will be chlorinated. The idea is to have this little lagoon like a pool, but have it look like it is totally natural lava rock formation with a sandy beach at one end and waterfalls in the middle. It would be about 3 1/2' deep at the deepest by the waterfall, and there would be seats built into the sides so can sit in it on a hot summer day with your mai tai or blue Hawaiian. I think I can work out the plumbing so the pool filter feeds either the waterfall or the fill line via a valve so you can control the strength of the flow.
I want to build it using independent contractors rather than go to a pool builder. I've done quite a bit of research already on the steps involved and I've got info. on local plasterers, metal workers, diggers and gunite contractors. I want to do the plumbing myself using a regular in ground pool filter. I'll need electrical help also. So I thought I'd throw this basic design out to all you tc'rs and get your feedback, since you all are so creative. Our local ordinance says that if it's less than 3 1/2' deep you don't need a permit, so I guess I can do whatever I want

This first picture show the main section of the yard as it is now. There’s a flagstone patio that leads to the house on the right. You can see a section of our fake lava rock attempt from last year; it’s a little raised planter and there are some built in benches on the other side of it. The section of fence at the back is actually a double large gate that opens up. The street is about 15’ past that in the back, so there’s plenty of good access space for contractors to get in.

This picture is the same view with a photo paste-up of a rough design I’m thinking of. So as we’re looking at it, the first part of the lagoon about up to the lava rock on the right would be very shallow, like only about a foot or two deep so you can lay in the water and still sunbath. Past that there would be the deeper section, with some steps coming in from the patio on the right. The seating would be on the left around the waterfall. At the back, it would curve around to the right and go a little into the patio area, very shallow, and there would be another smaller waterfall in there, next to the seating area and a table and chairs. The very back would end with rock, and then beyond would be a little white sandy beach section big enough to lay on.

This photo is from the same spot but looking in the other direction at the back of the yard. There’s a nice grassy area for sunning. At the back left there is a thatch covered storage shed that you can’t really see too well in the picture – it’s in the shade.

So here’s a photo paste up of kind of what I’m thinking of. I’d like to keep a section of lawn for lying in the sun, and beyond there would be a giant concrete tiki head with maybe some stone ruins at the base. This would be fun to make huh?!

So that’s my plan. Ambitious isn’t it? Have any of you done anything along this line? Any feedback or pictures would help inspire me. Mahalo! Paul

[ Edited by: pariartspaul on 2005-02-20 08:14 ]

[ Edited by: pariartspaul on 2005-02-20 08:16 ]

I just want to say that I entirely, 100% support creating a beachhead in your backyard. I've never seen something like that before, but if you can pull it off, write the book on it!

Also, mermaid in the bottom. Topless mermaid!

That's going to look killer. You should contact shom of the Home & Garden Network shows to film the progress for an episode. This is indeed something new.

I recently invested in some training to further my skills in concrete applications. Everything you mentioned wanting for your lagoon is covered in the courses I'm taking, and is totally do-able.

check out this website. http://www.jpjtechnologies.com/photos.asp

These guys do amazing work and will give you some great ideas on what can be done. Most of the construction methods they use/teach are considered "low-cost" by industry standards, and use recycled materials whenever possible.

Please keep us posted on your progress. It'll be fun to see the transformation.

TikisbySeamus.com

[ Edited by: seamus on 2005-02-20 13:34 ]

Thanks seamus,
Great stuff there. That's exactly what I want to do. The photos are inspiring.

YES, I really Love your Photo make ups. I can Almost feel the sun melting the ice in my Maitai. Yes, if you can create this, you will be a Very Populardestination for zillions of new friends. It really doesn't look too farfetched and I think it will be fairly simple to do. Go For it and Keep us posted.

Paul,

Nothing you guys ever do turns out mediocre so I anticipate that whatever your choices, it will be stellar.

Anxiously awaiting progress reports.

On 2005-02-20 17:58, Monkeyman wrote:
Paul,

Nothing you guys ever do turns out mediocre so I anticipate that whatever your choices, it will be stellar.

This certainly seems to be true. If you do make this happen, and I don't doubt you will, I shall be much the same shade as the TikiCentral background.

(and one more mermaid vote.)

That's awesome. I wanted to do the exact same thing. It seemes totally doable to me.
When I was a kid we use to go to this place that claimed to have the biggest inground pool in the world. All it was was a huge cocrete bottom pond. I don't remember any kind of pump or moving water and am very curious how they kept it clean.
Something that is as small as what your planning shuold be easy to keep clean though and the waterfall will help with keeping the water on a constant movement.
I'm moving into a new house in a week or two and it has a pool so now I already have the hole in the ground and will just be adding rocks and a waterfall around that.
The site with the images of lagoons is going to be very helpful.

Good luck, cant wait to see it.

Original Art by
Scott "Flounder" Scheidly

http://www.flounderart.com

[ Edited by: FLOUNDERart on 2005-02-21 04:54 ]

Would you like a lagoon like this? This is a partial view. I don't use any concrete or mortar, in order to get a more natural look. I call it a Koi pond but you can call it whatever you want. You might not want to swim in it either. Koi are nasty. Just fancy looking carp really. Okay, it's not a lagoon at all. But the same general concept.

The 'artists impression' pics look pretty sweet.

I work in a swimming pool shop so I hope i can give you some advice (Disclaimer: We do not construct pools, so this comes from a maintenance perspective more than anything.)

The plumbing for the filter/pump should be relatively easy. You only need a single suction line.

Are you going for a skimmer box (like most pools, a hole in the side at water level?). This allows you to suck stuff off the surface. A wet edge (like a grating running around the pool edge) is another option (probably more expensive too). But that would allow you to have it almost identical to your pics (that is, no lip or coping going around the water to make it look unnatural).

For the return line to the pool a simple valve as you said will give you better water control than Moses (well, not quite). Bear in mind that the waterfall will introduce more junk into the water (from the rocks), placing a larger demand on your chlorine. Day to day it is best to just have a normal return line.

May i suggest you look at spa style jets as a possible 3rd return line? A further return line will increase costs, but this could be good. Just two or three jets (like on the steps, or in your sunbaking section) and you get a massage. Do not have this as your main return line as the overall smaller size hole will be smaller than a normal return line, and place a strain upon your pump (this is what gives the pressure on the water coming out of the jets).

As far as the beach sections - if you are planning on using sand it will probably get all through the pool and be a bitch to keep clean. If you dont mind, then I wouldn't worry too much (as i said, my experience is in pool maintenance, so a lagoon/water feature is slightly different. However, i wouldnt reccomend the sand).

As far as filters I am not familiar with an 'inground filter'. I have not come across any myself, but i am in Australia. Make sure you have reasonable access and if possble cover pump and chlorinator to keep it out of the weather and everything will last longer - again leave room in this for maintenance.

I hope I have been of some use. If you have any other questions just ask

GOOD LUCK!

Aloha hewey,
Thanks for good advice -
I'm still debating over having a skimmer, but I think it would be a handy thing to have to keep the surface skimmed. For the filter, when I said 'inground filter' I guess I mean a normal filter system for an inground pool. I have a space about 15' away where I want to put it - on a concrete pad. I'm looking at cartidge systems, you know the whole system with the pump and filter. But I like the clarity you get with a D.E. filter and I'm still debating, but the maintenence on them can be messy, I know from experience. Will a cartidge filter keep it crystal clear do you think?
Yes the plumbing I can do myself. If I get the special fittings from a pool supply scource (like the valves) I can use home depot pvc for the rest of it. Also looking at pipe size I'm thinking the 2" as opposed to the 1 1/2".
For the sandy beach, I was thinking of keeping the sand up out of the actual pool, but if some goes in it shouldn't be much of a problem since sand is like little glass or rock pieces and should stay pretty clean - I don't know.
The pool pump itself should have plenty enough power to feed the waterfalls. Probably most of the time it would run just feeding back into the pool via the fill line and I would only turn on the waterfall valves when we're out there or having a party or something.
I like the idea of the spa jets, but I don't know if I want a whole second system to deal with. I'd like to keep the main system pretty simple.
Also debating about lighting. Someone recommended some kind of new light that you can build into the side of it that turns different colors - I don't remember the name of it, but it is supposed to be nice. I like the idea of an underwater light, they look so good at night. On the other hand, I could just light it with tiki torches and spotlights to not have to deal with the extra underground electrical work. I don't know.
I will keep you all updated as we get started on it. We're still finishing up a bedroom makeover and doing some major spring cleaning. We're having a big garage sale this coming weekend.
Sorry for such a long post.
Mahalo!

Man, am I glad I decided to came back to the board this week! Pariartspaul, you have just described my greatest dream for my backyard. DH and I were looking into having a dipping pool constructed, but it would be at least 35K bare minimum. I can't justify that. DH and I are both very handy, and we've got friends in all sorts of trades. I'd love to hear about your plans and construction techniques in more detail. Pleeeeaaaase? (Breaks out the puppydog eyes.)

Sounds incredible, and the mock ups look great.

I just have a name suggestion: How about "Henrietta's Hideaway", since she no doubt is helping to build it!

Aloha kitschywonan:
35 thousand!!! Yes if you'd have something like this done by a regular pool contractor it would be at least that much and probably more since so much of it would be 'custom' work, read $$$$$$!!. That's the major reason why I want to do it as an 'owner-builder' and keep track of it myself and vend out the individual bits of it. And I don't want a slick pool contractor look to it.
In my research, the most expensive part of it will be the actual gunite work, where it costs over $100 a yard for them to spray it in. But it seems for the basin itself it is the best way to do it.
I'm hoping the entire project to be more in the $10,000 range, but you know it always ends up costing a lot more.

Here's the list of individual contractors I'll need:
A digger with a bobcat (I have a contact for one)
A metal worker for the rebar work (I have a couple of numbers to call)
Gunite (I have a contact)
Electrical (I still need a good referal on this, I've had a few excellent ones and so many terrible ones in the past, I want to be careful screening these guys)

Did I leave anything out?
Most of the plumbing I'll try to do myself.
I want to do the above ground rockwork and waterfall basins myself. I've got a friend who welds who can help.
My first step will be to go ahead and order the filter system and then contact the digger and metal guy.

(Rubs chin) Veeerrry interesting. Yes, that 35K is absolute rock bottom, for a bare-bones pool with little to no custom work. Not the rock-laden, waterfall-spouting oasis I was hoping for. Good to know there's hope for me yet. Hmmmm...I've got ideas for the bobcat work, and I know just whom I'd use for the electrical, and my next-door neighbor does underground sewer/plumbing work...this may happen yet. Not this summer, though. This is the summer for installing the beach and the koi pond.

I'd be very interested in photos/schematics of your installation as you install it. DH is really the "construction foreman" of our household. I'm the unofficial landscaper/designer/grunt laborer. If you can pull this off for 10K or even 15K, and are willing to share your innermost secrets, I'd be ever so grateful. :D

Very nice mockup! Man, can't wait to see the progress....mine is coming along slower than expected due to the rains....
Best wishes and good luck!

Dave

[ Edited by: thegarz on 2005-02-22 20:58 ]

What part of California are you in? I have some great sub contractors in the Ventura/ Los Angeles area. The "digging guys" would probably prefer excavation guys. I would only use a pool electrican, there are too many things you have to know when mixing electricty with water, that is if you don't want the worlds biggest crock-pot. The founder of Sav-on Drugs lived in Hidden Hills and had a huge sand bottom pool with a beach. I used to care for it back in the 70's. I was more like a moutain spring/pond than a lagoon. All that to say it can be done.

Cartridge filters when new work good, but deteriate over time. Generally, expect about 2-4yrs from a cartridge. DE will give the best qulity water but are an absolute pain (and significantly more expensive). Sand filters are the best. Easy maintenance, good water quality etc.

Cartridges when new wil give a better quality than sand, but sand is better in the long run. There is also a relatively new material called zeolite, which goes in a sand filter instead of the sand. This works better than sand. It is more expensive per pound, but less is required so cost is similar to sand.

Pool lights are a top idea. Note: most of my customers have to regularly replace globes (once or twice a year), and they are fairly expensive. The changing colour ones you mentioned are probably LED based. More expensive to buy but I think they are better in the long term. None of my customers have them so I cant give a definite verdict. Most pool lights will have multiple lens colous available. Either the whole lens is replaced, or their is a clip-on style lens over a clear lens.

I have a light blue pool with a green light and at night the whole pool glows an aqua colour - great for what you want. Some customers complain that green lights make the pool look like it is full of algae - you might want this!

I forgot to say that filter cartridges will keep the pool clean enough. Most people dont seem to notice the difference in clarity anyway.

Whatever way you go, your local pool shop will sell a clarifier or filtering aid to make the water look schmick for parties. Works with all filter types. In basic terms the crap sticks together so it is bigger and then filters out. (this is different to a floc, which plays with the pool chemistry more).

back to lights again, I would suggest get some pond spotties to put behind the waterfall, making it backlit. You can even get pond lights that go underwater, so the water will not be a problem. I would go the pool light, backlight the waterfall, and use garden spotties to highlight plants or statues to really create a nice ambiance.

Thanks again for good advice. I got another email also about filters and I think I've narrowed it down to a sand filter, sounds like the best. I used to have a DE filter and although the water was beautiful, it was a pain to maintain, plus this pond will not have much volume so it should stay really clean. For plumbing, I got advice on the benifits of using the 1 1/2" size as opposed to the 2". The 1 1/2" is always available at home depot, so that counts for a lot. I'd like to keep the plumbing pretty simple.
For the lighting, yes I'll look into a pool electrician to help with it. I think having it lit from underwater would be a nice feature.
PS - I forgot to mention I'm in Sacramento.

Another addition: With our old pool, before we had it replastered with dark plaster it had white plaster. So for parties, we used to dump a bottle or two of Mrs. Stewart's blueing into the water and it looked great!! But it wouldn't last very long - that DE filter would filter all the color out in a day or so. Boy those DE filters do work good. But after we had it replastered with the dark color the water always looked good on its own.

[ Edited by: pariartspaul on 2005-02-23 09:58 ]

[ Edited by: pariartspaul on 2005-02-23 10:03 ]

We've got a blue acrylic based die that people use for parties. Have never been big on the stuff, but people love it.

That is so cool! I was at Thompson's in Orange some time ago and saw a flier for a class out in Riverside on fabricating rock. I think it was @ $250.00 per person. I think it would be great to know how to create your own oasis! And then friends will want to have your work in their yards, so you could quit yer day job. (me dreaming) I say a grotto in every back yard!

OK everyone- I ordered the DVD classes from JP Technologies on creating faux rock...I'll update when I get it and watch it.