Just got back from a studio tour...

I took the day to feed my inspiration. Some local artists had their studio open for an open-house-type-thing. We also visited a gallery that hosted the event.

I noticed the artists weren't selling at all. They had all of their stuff out there with prices, and nothing was moving. Three of the artists have masters degrees in Fine Arts. Lots of college money in those studios. Two of them were teachers. I had one of them for figure drawing class and was completely impressed with his teaching style, ability to improve my skills, and the extras he threw into the class. His work was amazing!

Did I mention nothing was selling? Well, we happened to see a juried HIGH SCHOOL art show and there were pieces in that gallery priced from $500 up. MOST of those pieces were sold!

Here I am hawking my mugs on ebay for $10-30 and trying to just move anything. Here's these professional artists with two jobs trying to sell something. And here's this 14-year-old kid selling a watercolor for $750!

Does anybody see the injustice? I mean...great for the kid, but he's gotta pay his dues like the rest of us.

Sign me-

Cynical

not that I've seen any of what you're talking about, but my hunch is that the high school students' art was very "safe" and the professional works were deeper and more thought provoking. Am I right?

Mr. Joe A. Walmrtshpr will buy a Thomas Kinkade or a Monet over a Jackson Pollock or Marcel Duchamp any day.

"It's got a great beat and I can dance to it... I give it a 9, Dick."

-Z

PS- (Grand)parents tend to buy lil' Timmy's first official art... makes him a real professional!

PPS- I'd just like to point out that this is my 808th post :)

Thank God The Tiki Bar Is Open
Thank God The Tiki Torch Still Shines...

[ Edited by: Feelin' Zombified on 2005-04-10 19:16 ]

WOW 808! That's gotta be lucky and you spent it on my thread! Wow.

808! Man, you talk a lot!

I have a feeling it has a lot to do with America's growing fascination with "child prodigies"; i.e. you MUST be flabbergasted by anything produced by a sub-adult artist. Hasn't it seemed to you that in recent years we've been barraged with an onslaught of mediocre talent (and I use that word loosely...) by whom we're supposed to be astounded merely because they are hovering somewhere around puberty?

Seems to me if they can fill up more than one episode of Mini American Idol or Biddy League Star Search, the "prodigy" part becomes moot.

I worked in children's theatre for years...snotty little kids who can bellow like Andrea McCardle ain't all that rare!

It seems odd to me that all of you are discounting the talents of High Schooler's (let alone anyone's) art without even seeing it. That's the open mind I really like to see...

Tiki Mugs, Vintage, Tiki Bars, Carved Tiki Poles, Apparel and more!
Everything Tiki at: http://www.bartiki.com

[ Edited by: Tiki Matt on 2005-04-10 20:29 ]

People buy art that the like. Unfortunately there is no such thing as paying your dues in the creative field.

An artist could make stuff that you may find fabulous but are you willing to pay for it or just admire it?

I see lots of stuff that I think is really neat but depending on the other obligations in my life at the moment, I may not find it so irresistable that I am willing to buy it.

It needs to yell out "buy me", not just a faint whisper.

Hopefully your art freinds will find that rare group that absolutely loves what they do.

Hey Beachin, I'm not trying to be a smartass here when I say this...

In your profile you are labeld as a professional artist and I believe that I read that you attedded an art school. If I'm right about the art school training, what did you major in? I'm fairly young(22) and enjoy creating ceramics and the occasional ink drawing. You state that you think it's great the high schooler is making a profit from his talent but needs to pay his dues. How does one pay his dues in the art world? Can you elaborate on this for me?

No sarcasm or disrespect Beachin.
-Yum

I'm thinking the high-schoolers had relatives like grandma and grandpa buying their stuff.

In the world of art, I don't think age or experience has anything to do with it. Experience can help you build your talents, and teach you new techniques, but if people like your art they will buy it. Getting it out into the public is important, and finding those that like what you do. Good luck with it!

It has been way too long since I've done anything creative(for myself), and my brain is starting to hurt! Spring has sprung, I think a watercolour is in order.

p.s. I agree that many of the purchasers may have been relatives. I took watercolour and acrylic classes for 5 years with a private teacher. At the end of every year each student chose their favorite piece of work and displayed it at the friends and family show. Never were there prices on things. I think this was a good plan. It was more for art's sake. Then again, when you're 13-18 you don't do this stuff to make money.

[ Edited by: Tikiwahine on 2005-04-11 12:18 ]

Pays dues just means that their stuff is selling for a higher price then a artist who had to sell their art for many years to build an interest.

Wall art is more justified then a cermanic mug.

I agree that it's probably friends/relatives buying up the HS kids' stuff.

But I disagree that artists don't have to "pay their dues". Few artists are so gifted that they simply "start at the top" (I'm talkin to you, Monkeyman!). Perhaps you mean there's no preset amount of struggling you must do and then automatically graduate to successful selling artist. That may be true. The professional artists I know are always proving and re-proving and re-establishing themselves through their work. It's rare that it ever gets much easier, especially if you rely on selling your work directly to the fickle, art-buying public.

Professional art schools or degrees have little to do with success, either. All they can do is help improve your skills, build contacts, and help to toughen you against the level of competition you'll experience in the real world. Anyone can learn the technical aspects of drawing, sculpting or painting, but it takes a naturally gifted eye and mindset toward the aesthetics of applying those disciplines to succeed grandly (unless you're Thomas Kinkade and you choose to whore your mediocre talent to take money from "collectors" with no taste. Man, I wish I'd thought of that!).

Perhaps the carvers and mug-makers here who sell their wares are not the best examples of successful commercial artists. Sure, their stuff is awesome and sells well and we'd all buy everything if we had the money, but it seems like a fairly limited market. Until tiki carvings and mugs become the next Beanie Babies, I don't see anyone striking it really rich in this area (some may say "what about Shag?", but he's not strictly tiki and has big crossover appeal).

Poor shag, disney will soon own his soul and walmart will have a shag section. I just don't like the current ethics of walmart or disney with out a dreamer at the helm and a mob of lawyers watching his/her back so they don't get taken advantage of. But this was off base a little so... people buy what they like and there is nothing much any of us can do but stand back and watch. I read some quote in a pottery mag that an artist has to make blue bowls because that is what people buy and that helps pay the artist so they can make the things that matter to them. Forget it, I'am just a valet and a dreamer someone get me eisner/iger's job and some great lawyers.

I think really astute artists can create their own markets. Shag did it, Kinkade did it, now YOU can do it! Seriously, I'll admit that both of those people have a fair amount of talent, but I think their success lay in their ability to market and promote themselves - to create a demand for their works. They work hard to make their art appear to be "collectible" (and it may actually be collectible in many cases), and many people are happy to follow along with that idea and buy their work. It's really odd what some people consider valuable and it's understandable how some artists become so rich from selling such questionable "art".

The message I was trying to deliver in my previous post was in no way inferring that I am an artist (can you say accountant?). I was speaking from the point of view of a buyer.

Tiki Bot is correct in stating that even with huge success in selling to "tiki" folk, its still a very limited market.

As a rookie craftsperson who does not rely on it to support my family, I view my success as a "creative" soley based on desirability.

If other folks desire it then I have my first step of success. The second step would be to sell some of it. The third step would be to market it and simultaneously learning how to reproduce it. None of us will ever go anywhere with our art if we have to create each piece on our own. Not unless you are the best of the best and can command insane prices for a single piece.

Its all about duplication y'all.....

Painters have printing (serigraphs, glicees, mousepads, lunchboxes, shirts etc).
Musicians have CD's.
Ceramicists, have moldmaking.
Woodcarvers can use some automation (CNC routers, Carving Duplicators, resin molds).

To achieve true financial success most of us need to learn how to create demand and then be able to deliver supply. Can you imagine providing 50,000 items to someone like Costco, Target or Pier 1?

On 2005-04-12 11:01, Monkeyman wrote:

Can you imagine providing 50,000 items to someone like Costco, Target or Pier 1?

Or in Beachin's case Hallmark, JoAnn's Etc, and the like.

Beachin: Here is an informative article for you... be sure to also read the licensing 101 link.

Click here

I've been behind in my correspondence. Sorry about that. I'll try to answer your questions, comments. Most of the stuff I post in these forums caters (I think) to all forms of artists. I post them because a) I like a good discussion/debate and b) I value other artists opinions and c) you all have a varying degree of experience/years under the belt to add to the topic.

In answer to the question. Yes I am a professional artist. I have been selling art as a living for two years (read: broke) I list it as my occupation. I don't have any other job. It's what I do. I have been attending college for three years to study ceramics and fine arts. I had to take a bunch of other crap to get a well-rounded education, so I'm not just smarter, but poorer. (!!)

I have also been studying marketing art based on another discussion in the marketing tiki forum (which I think almost all of you contributed to).

Paying the dues is a term that's thrown around a lot in my backyard. They talk about it in college, at shows, and at the art museum where I volunteer. They tell budding artists not to expect to make a living as an artist because they have to pay their dues. They tell you in a show when you set your prices too high for their taste that you still need to pay your dues. They insist that pricing be set low low low and that only sage old artists with masters degrees have paid their dues.

I guess what I was surprised to see what that the kids in question were encouraged to set their prices above the market value for this area and their medium. Watercolor artists on the streets of New Orleans are a dime a dozen. The kids who had the show didn't show any outrageous/remakable talent that I saw or took my breadth away. I think I like the theory that it was grandma/pa buying the art for $750. It helps me sleep better. Don't get me wrong. I encourage every artist I meet to go for it. I do it and I love my job. I just think their art education needs to include realistic pricing structure for their future in this career. I think encouraging a kid to sell a piece for $750 at their first show is setting them up for a huge let-down if they decide to join the pros.

In southern Louisiana, competition if feirce for a small group of art collectors. They do not teach art in the schools here to any serious degree, except for the private schools. They cut out the arts from the public school curriculum a while back. One semester of art class is available to the high school students but it's a very watered-down course. It is NOT taught in the elementary schools at all any more. This means we are raising a generation of citizens who are not knowledgable about art and don't know what to buy. They prefer to decorate their homes with walm-ART rather than take the time to learn about real artists right here at home.

It saddened me to see these VERY talented, respectable artists have an open-house and not sell anything, and to have to complete with the high-schoolers who were selling. I think it was a conflict of interest and a lack of support for the professional artists who the guild was sponsoring. I would have liked to see the $750 go to at least one of the pros who are trying to do this for a living.

This is getting too long. I'll leave that out there and post more in a bit.

Beachin: Here is an informative article for you... be sure to also read the licensing 101 link.

Click here

Good read. I kept it in my marketing file for future reference. My mind swarms with new business info every day. On top of 15 college hours, running a family, marketing 30 hours a week, and making art, I've been learning everything I can about the art business. I blame BigBroTiki...he got me started thinking about where I want to go with my business, and now I have to do something about it!

I love my job, though. My studio is 120 feet away from my bedroom. The phone doesn't ring in there. I don't punch a time-clock. I design my own work. I get to think for myself. I can play the music as loud as I want it. I set my own hours (which are longer than I ever worked before incidentally) and I can take a nap when I want to.

I'm thinking about talking to some local flower shops to see if they would be interested in any of those mugs that are not moving from my shelves.