UPDATE: Beyond and Bilge Talkback Topic

Swanky,

I'm curious. Who does buy your underwear??

On 2005-09-02 07:35, RevBambooBen wrote:
Swanky,

I'm curious. Who does buy your underwear??

Rumor has it that he goes "commando."

Tense thread disclaimer: Just goofing off, making an underwear joke - no editorial implications or inferences implied or inferred.

[ Edited by: Swanky 2005-09-02 20:57 ]

tikishadow, the reasons that anybody has to spend their money where they do are their own business, and certainly not the business of lord knows how many people who read this. Anyone want to know how much I weigh? How much I make? Yeah, that's a great idea, let's get into that. Your challenge to Swanky is disgusting.

Hanford is still working on his response to people, and I don't want to steal his thunder, but the Bilge & Beyond change was just one prong in a multi-prong effort to nudge people's attention back to the tiki a bit. That other prong, which I think will go over much better than the last one :wink:, will be posted shortly.

We may not totally agree on what's best for the site, that's just not possible (hell, Hanford & I don't always agree on what's best for the site -- believe it or not, I argued against the spell-checker!), but thank you for loving Tiki Central as much as we do. Your care and concern mean a lot to us.

My and anybody else's finances are none of anybody's business. More than one ugly thread on TC has been started by people talking about money. Other people's money.

Unless you're talking about money that goes to Hanford, and then it's fair game, eh? Didn't someone just say "TC is financed beyond need", and wasn't that talking about other people's money?

Anyway, hopefully the "ugliness" is all wrapped up now.

-Randy

GROUP HUG!!!

:music: :music: Always look on the bright side of life! :music: :music:

[ Edited by: swanky 2005-09-02 20:52 ]

I carry a lot of weight in this community...

(AAAHAHAHAHAHA - I've been waiting for a perfect time to use that one for years)...

...and I read The Mugglers treatise with careful attention.

He's dead on and with emotions detached.
All were great points and speak not only to the Beyond and Bilge forums but the site as a whole.

I now, therefore, do plagarize his whole post and hereby attach my name to its contents in their entirety. And I'll sue anyone who tries to do the same.

We pay for Tiki Magazine and all it's nice ads, articles and other features. Why would you not pay for a great website like Tiki Central which is much more elaborate than a magazine? There is nothing wrong with Hanford wanting to make money from TC. Why shouldn't he? Those who want to read it and contribute, will pay for it. As said before the internet is not a necessity, it's a luxury, just like a magazine or a website. What's that saying about bullshit walking?

one more thing :music: There's a great big beautiful tomorrow, shining at the end of everyday :music: sing along with Tarzan!!

I'm still not feeling the love, people!

Second chorus!!:
:music: Always look on the bright side of life! :music:

SSSSQQQQQEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

squeak!

XOXOXOXOX

tikivixen

On 2005-09-02 12:10, tikigreg wrote:
Second chorus!!:
:music: Always look on the bright side of life! :music:

I would love to do the whistling part, but can't figure out how to do that in writing...maybe:

:music:Tweeeeet...tweet,tweet..tweet,tweet..tweet,tweet...:music:

[ Edited by: Swanky 2005-09-02 20:56 ]

On 2005-09-02 13:09, Swanky wrote:

On 2005-09-02 11:32, Jungle Trader wrote:
We pay for Tiki Magazine and all it's nice ads, articles and other features. Why would you not pay for a great website like Tiki Central which is much more elaborate than a magazine? There is nothing wrong with Hanford wanting to make money from TC. Why shouldn't he? Those who want to read it and contribute, will pay for it. As said before the internet is not a necessity, it's a luxury, just like a magazine or a website. What's that saying about bullshit walking?

I don't pay for Tiki Magazine. I've never even seen it. The internet is not a luxury for me. It's a business and a neccesity. I belong to a number of forums and none of them cost a dime. I have also offered to move Tiki Central to the servers I am on to save money, but after the GM thing, it wasn't needed.

Yes, there are forums that are free and there are forums that cost money. If you choose to pay money (or not) for a forum that is your choice. I doubt Hanford is going to cancel the Grand Member payment requirement so one either decides whether it is something they want to (or can) pay or they don't pay for it. It seems simple to me. To gripe about it may feel good as a release, but I don't think it will change the Grand Member payment requirement. Hanford is the boss, he can do whatever he wants to. If he wants us all to pay $1000 bucks a year to belong to TC-he can. (granted, the membership roster would drop dramatically-to say the least!! tee hee ). You can choose to pay or not pay(I think you have made that choice). If you think the world needs a totally free tikicentral type website and forum, than go ahead and start "beyondtikicentral.com" you have my blessing!!
PS-Tiki magazine is pretty darn cool!

This is my very first post on Tiki Central, and it may very well be my last... Although I have not previously registered or posted before on this site my thoughts and words have been expressed here, indirectly, through my fiance Swanky. We have spent a great deal of time reading and responding to posts together and through this site I have been privileged to get to now a lot about the people here. This whole tiki culture is still relatively new to me so the pages that pertain strictly to tiki hold less interest for me than those of Beyond and Bilge. While I am slowly being 'converted' into this world of tiki I am enjoying the benefit of the people in it.

I agree that there is a lot of crap on this site - a lot of name calling, slander, and gossip, as well as a lot of mindless entertainment. In fact, one of the main reasons I have never felt an urge to post is because you never know what kind of back-lashing you'll get in response. That being said, my view was changed entirely last week when my own father suffered a stroke. Swanky forwarded me the thread about Crazy Al and his efforts to support the American Stroke Association. I immediately felt the need to express my gratitude and appreciation and had planned to do so the moment I got a spare minute. I was soon to discover that the areas the 'pertain to me' were no longer accessible to me. And I can only assume that if it were not for the fact that Crazy Al was actually auctioning a tiki for this cause this type of topic would be relegated to Beyond or Bilge. It saddens me to think that a few useless off topic threads would prevent an entire community from having knowledge of the really positive things, except those that have and can afford the GM.
As for the monetary aspect, I agree that $24 or so isn't much - for most people - but, even as badly as I wish I could donate money to Al's event I am afraid every spare penny I have will be going directly to a victim, my father. I hope that no one on this site will ever experience what my family has, but I would hate to think that there is an entire community here that could support them and they would never know it or could not talk about it without a GM.

I am struggling to find the logic in this decision. I agree that the most obvious result is going to be garbage showing up where you least want it. I don't see how a decision like this is going to 'purify' Tiki Central. But, I also don't understand the method of "Shoot first, ask questions later" in regards to the way the changes were made.

I sincerely hope that this community is able to continue doing what it does best - support each other - whether it be in an attempt to help find that most sought after Tiki or just to lift up somebody who's down.

There's my two cents...

On 2005-09-02 01:45, hanford_lemoore wrote:
Thanks everyone for their opinions.

I would like to share my thoughts with everyone on this, but I will need to take some additional time to collect my thoughts.

But, please take note: Beyond Tiki and Bilge are again available to everyone, regardless of their GM status.

I'm sorry if this caused anyone grief.

Respectfully,

Hanford

/:) Great choice Hanford!

I'd like to take this time to address the recent Beyond Tiki change.

First off, for anyone who has not read it elsewhere, Beyond Tiki and Bilge are back. I want to thank everyone for their impassioned outpouring on this issue. I asked for candid opinions, and I got them.

On a personal note, I'd like to thank people who chimed in with support of me even when they were not in support of the change.

Why did you make the change before asking for people's thoughts on the subject?

Let me try to answer this as concisely as possible:

• Because if it didn't work, I knew I could change them back. This has happened before with other changes (like automatic-goto-new-post that I launched then removed).
• Some things need to be actually experienced. It is easy to argue the pros and cons of any proposed idea, but hard to argue against the real results of actually trying it out.
• I never had any idea that implementing the change would cause the outpouring it did. I didn't foresee it causing any grief for anyone.

What happens now?

• I have reverted the changes so the forums are back to normal.
• I have made some small formatting changes to the TC homepage to de-emphasize the off-topic forums.
• I also have been planning other efforts to help bring more Tiki to Tiki Central. Don't worry, none of them will be anything like this!

What was your intention?

A few users charged me with using the change as a way to segregate TC and create some sort of second-class citizenship. To that I say those charges are simply unfounded. My intention was, and always has been, to make Tiki Central a better place for tiki information and for tikiphiles around the world. Am I correct 100% of the time? Of course not! But I hope my track record of improvements to the site, my donations and support to outside events and projects, and overall support of the community shows that my heart is in the right place.

Thanks for reading.

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore 2005-09-02 18:44 ]

On 2005-09-02 10:37, tikifish wrote:
GROUP HUG!!!

:)

Third chorus:

:music: Aways look on the bright side of life :music:

Thank you Hanford..

as soon as I'm done school and earning a decent wage I'll be first in line for a grand membership.

:)

Hanford,
I wondered how you were able to catch the eye of the cute one from Seattle and now I know, you are a class act, a shining example of an open mind. Thank you.

Oh one quick thought about the whole money thing. I think it would be easier to get people to part with their money if you aim at the tiki obsessive compulsive collector thingy.

In other words more Tiki Central Merchandise.

Ok, its riskier, investment and all that. But people here tend to collect. Tend to...HAH!!!

On 2005-09-02 17:37, hanford_lemoore wrote:

First off, for anyone who has not read it elsewhere, Beyond Tiki and Bilge are back. I want to thank everyone for their impassioned outpouring on this issue. I asked for candid opinions, and I got them.

Thanks Hanford for bringing Beyond and Bilge back for all to enjoy.

I moved the rest of this post to the proper topic "Where is Tiki Bong (Part Deux)" in Bilge
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=16244&forum=13&13

[ Edited by: Riptide 2005-09-03 11:15 ]

When I was down the TC Ohana picked me up with a positive vibe.

Many mahalos for keeping TC inclusive, Hanford. I know it's a tough job sometimes and I admire you for hanging in there.

Cant wait to see what your ideas for TC are hanford!

Ignoring the negatives of this thread, there were some great comments from both points of view. Awesome to see how passionate some people are about the site too (even if this does have its downsides sometimes).

Luv yas :)

Unfortunately, this thread has lead to several never wanting to come to TC again...

Is this why Monkey Man has deleted all of his posts?

Well, we all know it's not a perfect world. None of us are perfect either, but if we could agree to disagree and keep it objective, things might go better.

Aloha!!

Just have to say it and please don't kick me off: the Nazis invaded Poland in the wee hours of Aug. 31st and Sept.1st 1939. Blitzkrieg.

Okay, I know it's old hat for internet boards, but never ceases to amuse me when the nazi comparisons come out in something like this. Thanks for the laugh.

Sorry for the belated post on this thread, but I just wondered if it was problematic to make the View New Posts Across All Forums feature display all Bilge and Beyond Tiki posts after all selected posts of tiki categories? This seems like a tiny step toward increasing the tiki focus and I'd guess most TC'ers would prefer it. Even better if it gave some visible cue/bar above the OT forum posts.

Second, even if the issue is not bandwidth, most of us would probably prefer that the moderators' valuable time be focused on the tiki forums and new functionality. Would it be feasible make these OT forums more self-sustaining by automating U-Moderate entirely? I.e. the rules for those forums would be that A) almost anything goes; and B) what falls on the short side of "almost" is determined entirely and automatically by the moderating votes of the community, with no special moderate attention required (except in extraordinary circumstances)?