Are we all just a bunch of wayward Star Wars/Treckie nerds?

No, not "ouch!" It was meant to say that we don't have to explain ourselves more than anyone else, so why bother? All of the ass-kicking and nabbing of wahines isn't going to change the fact that Tiki is something we COLLECT... which means that there are other social circles that won't get it, by virtue of them NOT collecting the same thing. That's all.

I can't believe this tread made it to four pages before I had a chance to post. Well, I guess all I have to say is: Ha!

Jabbo knows that I said we were all just trekkies who liked to drink months ago, shortly after hundreds of us watched a slide show lecture about Witco while lounging poolside.

Folks, I've been to tiki conventions and I've been to Trek conventions. And while there are many, MANY differences, they both are full of people with a common interest who enjoy each others company. Nothing fancy about that. Anytime you get really into something, whether it's tiki or beanie babies or whatever, people like to talk to others with the same interest.

But we do rawk a little harder.

-martin.

On 2003-02-06 21:45, martiki6 wrote:
people like to talk to others with the same interest.

martin.

This is something that I've been pondering for awhile. I may be deluded but isn't this whole notion of being "cool" much more important today than it ever was in the era when the original Tiki cult existed? I mean, this notion, it seems to me, really came into prominence with the rise of rock music.
From my understanding people in the pre-rock era did not place nearly the importance on being cool as there is today.
Let's be honest-is it really important? Being cool is for juveniles and Hollywood movie stars. It's about an image one is supposed to project. We like Tiki, we enjoy it. That's all that counts in my opinion. Like Johnny Rotten once said"I gave up worrying about other people's opinions and impressions a long time ago."
The mainstream's ideas of being cool involve a concept in which we are to accept the brainwashing that in order to be "cool"
one has to be decadent, aggressive, competitive to the extreme, confrontational. While these things may have their own importance in my opinion we are subjected constantly to a media barrage that tries to tell us they are the most important values in life. Hogwash. I'm not in High school anymore. One of the luxuries of being an adult is that you can pretty much be and do what you want and don't have to accept so much assinine peer pressure.

[ Edited by: SlovakTiki on 2003-02-07 09:02 ]

This is something that I've been pondering for awhile. I may be deluded but isn't this whole notion of being "cool" much more important today than it ever was in the era when the original Tiki cult existed? I mean, this notion, it seems to me, really came into prominence with the rise of rock music.

Wrong-O! You've obviously never listened to a Lord Buckley record. Cool originated with Jazz music. Being cool, meant to be chilled, or not overheated. Dig it, baby! This whole notion of slacker was a big part of the Beatnik lifestyle, but was first important to Black people, via the urban lifestyle that was Jazz. A Black man in the '40s could fight for equality all week, but in the end, he needed the love of a woman, the taste of hard liquor on his tongue, and the soothing sounds of the Bop. It's what keeps a man going.

Oscar Wilde may have captured the borgiuose slacker, but the Beatniks were the first blue-collar slackers. The mellowing out was very popular after WW2, and ended up becoming a most alluring ideal in the early '60s Los Angeles, especially inspiring to the Surfers. This image is reflected best in the wonderful Surf film, "Free & Easy." That film is really a metaphor for what cool really meant.

From my understanding people in the pre-rock era did not place nearly the importance on being cool as there is today.

Cool was different. I'm not sure that it was as focused as it is today. Cool has been marketed to death, and seems to be a much more tense act today. NOT BEING cool comes with great social ramifications. Still, to be cool, means to reflect an attitude of the carefree lifestyle.

Let's be honest-is it really important? Being cool is for juveniles and Hollywood movie stars. It's about an image one is supposed to project. We like Tiki, we enjoy it. That's all that counts in my opinion. Like Johnny Rotten once said"I gave up worrying about other people's opinions and impressions a long time ago."

And then he started Public Image Ltd. I'm tired of Punk. "Dogtown & Z-Boys" tried to hard to attach itself to the dark ideas of the Punk era, but it wasn't like that. Venice Beach had some rough spots, but I was a kid living in Long Beach at that time. I think that the last remnants of Beach Bums are much more interesting. In 1975, there were still guys who graduated high school in the '60s who lived at the beach, travelled to Europe with a girlfriend, and didn't bother selling cars. 1977 would be the last time that most of them voted for a democrat. You want to look at why America is as right wing as it is today... take a good look at a high school reunion program from 1975. By 1980, it would all be over.

In 1975, the Los Angeles of the '60s wasn't there in the attitudes of the people in L.A., but they hadn't torn it down yet. They were still straddling the fence. All of the buildings and bars that we like now we still there in 1975. By 1980, they were torn down, and mini-malls were erected in their place.

The mainstream's ideas of being cool involve a concept in which we are to accept the brainwashing that in order to be "cool"
one has to be decadent, aggressive, competitive to the extreme, confrontational. While these things may have their own importance in my opinion we are subjected constantly to a media barrage that tries to tell us they are the most important values in life. Hogwash. I'm not in High school anymore. One of the luxuries of being an adult is that you can pretty much be and do what you want and don't have to accept so much assinine peer pressure.

The biggest media barrage is this whole thing we call "upper class". A whole generation was convinced that that word was what life was all about. We will never be the same.

ok, I got to chime in now.

For me, it's what I do. It's my career, my life. My Grandfather Eli Hedley did it from the 40's to the 80's. Now, I'm doing it from the 80's to ?

Geez BC, you hit music, race, surfing, politics, the media, and class envy all in one post! Back to the subject title, in case anyone thought I might be a geek too, I'll remove all doubt with the following over-analytical reply...

A Black man in the '40s could fight for equality all week, but in the end, he needed the love of a woman, the taste of hard liquor on his tongue, and the soothing sounds of the Bop.

Are you sure you mean bebop in the 40s, or more like the birth of "Cool" in the 50s? (Be)bop was just about as far from soothing as you could possibly get! That was the point: fast tempos, crazy melodies, rapid fire chord changes, etc. Either way, are you saying that's the first time anyone was cool? I don't get it.

All of the buildings and bars that we like now we still there in 1975. By 1980, they were torn down, and mini-malls were erected in their place.

The thing is, the original buildings you're talking about were built for the same reasons and with the same intentions as the mini-malls of the 80s and beyond: to attract customers and run successful businesses. Styles change, but I don't really think business motivations do.

I wasn't alive in the 60s or earlier, but from all accounts I've heard, people liked money back then just as much as they do now, irrespective of any media influence. Seems to me that one difference is that even though people still like money, these days we're supposed to feel more guilty about it.

-Randy

On 2003-02-07 18:07, BC-Da-Da wrote:
I mean, this notion, it seems to me, really came into prominence with the rise of rock music.***

Wrong-O! You've obviously never listened to a Lord Buckley record. Cool originated with Jazz music. Being cool, meant to be chilled, or not overheated. Dig it, baby! This whole notion of slacker was a big part of the Beatnik lifestyle, but was first important to Black people, via the urban lifestyle that was Jazz. A Black man in the '40s could fight for equality all week, but in the end, he needed the love of a woman, the taste of hard liquor on his tongue, and the soothing sounds of the Bop. It's what keeps a man going.

You'll notice I used the words "came into prominence". I realize the concept was in existence in the jazz age. I'm saying that it was not adhered to on such a drastic basis the way it is now.

.

Let's be honest-is it really important? Being cool is for juveniles and Hollywood movie stars. It's about an image one is supposed to project. We like Tiki, we enjoy it. That's all that counts in my opinion. Like Johnny Rotten once said"I gave up worrying about other people's opinions and impressions a long time ago."

"And then he started Public Image Ltd. I'm tired of Punk." Well, that's your choice. Some of us on this forum will still continue to listen to it no matter who thinks it's "uncool","passe'", or whatever.

Mai Tai's, Martin Denny, and Aloha shirts conjure up pleasure. They are enjoyable. I don't give a rat's arse if they're cool or not. That's just somebody else's opinion.

[ Edited by: SlovakTiki on 2003-02-07 19:19 ]

[ Edited by: SlovakTiki on 2003-02-07 19:22 ]

Hells' Teeth!

What's with the eagerness to associate with the 'cool' or 'uncool'? Ignore the whole scheme, get on with your life, and pay a whole lot less while doing it.

Trader Woody

On 2003-02-07 19:44, Trader Woody wrote:
Hells' Teeth!

What's with the eagerness to associate with the 'cool' or 'uncool'? Ignore the whole scheme, get on with your life, and pay a whole lot less while doing it.

Trader Woody

Hey Woody. Thanks for the input. Life always goes on. I do suppose there really are a few people out there whose happiness depends on which "camp" they are in. Can you elaborate on the "pay a whole lot less" bit?

Sure....

Being 'cool' (in many spheres, not all) uses up $$$. Be it clothes, haircuts, the right drink, or even the occasional print or gasp mug. People will happily shell out a whole lot of money to get into the 'cool group', whoever they may be. Even 2 year olds are involved with the whole 'Dollars for acceptance' biz these days. 'Cool' sells. Grim but true.

Trader Woody

"I am what I am and that's all that I am"

-Popeye (1941)

[ Edited by: Shipwreckjoey on 2003-02-07 20:21 ]

It's funny. Whenever you'r e obsessed/posessed by something you're labled a 'nerd' which I could never figure out. I always thought that when one had a specific interest that they were passionate about they were cool. The folks that side with the disposabable stuff were the nerds. I guess we're just the bookworms of popular culture. In my opinion, not a bad avenue worth exploring. So screw the nay-sayers. Let them eat the cake of Britney Spears and Shakira. Long live the men and women that scour the thrift stores of culture to find the real origins of fun!!!
Mahalo!!! :drink:

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-08 10:51 ]

On 2003-02-07 19:44, Trader Woody wrote:
Hells' Teeth!

Trader Woody

Jeez, I guess all I really want to know is what Hells Teeth means.

-martin

Are you sure you mean bebop in the 40s, or more like the birth of "Cool" in the 50s?

Wasn't BIRTH OF THE COOL by Miles Davis 1948?

(Be)bop was just about as far from soothing as you could possibly get! That was the point: fast tempos, crazy melodies, rapid fire chord changes, etc. Either way, are you saying that's the first time anyone was cool? I don't get it.

The word soothing was meant to portray music as a slave for the urban soul, not a mystycal New Age experience or a Smooth Jazz record. I'm well aware of the cross-overs of Big Band and BeBop in the '40s, and BeBop and Cool Jazz in the '50s. Both BeBop and Cool were also still around in the '60s as Fushion and Free Jazz entered the game.

The thing is, the original buildings you're talking about were built for the same reasons and with the same intentions as the mini-malls of the 80s and beyond: to attract customers and run successful businesses. Styles change, but I don't really think business motivations do.

But my point wasn't about money, it was about style. In the '70s, the cool shit from the '60s was still around. There weren't twenty Wich Stand's or Ships restaurants. A lot of those buildings could not be re-created, and it was a shame to see that style torn down. It was torn down DUE to corporate takeover. Sure, all businesses have been about making money... never said otherwise. But, in the '70s, the richness of Los Angeles, which was a part of the collective adolescence of many, was torn down, and most of the Baby Boomers could care less by 1980. My parents included.

I wasn't alive in the 60s or earlier, but from all accounts I've heard, people liked money back then just as much as they do now, irrespective of any media influence. Seems to me that one difference is that even though people still like money, these days we're supposed to feel more guilty about it.

Nerd. :)

Ya know, originally this post was very funny. Now it’s just getting annoying. So, I’ll say this and then I’m done.

I believe Laney’s post was supposed to be humorous: Are we like Trekkies? That was funny! Yes, there are similarities. Yes, we very well may be ‘closet’ nerds. But didn’t the first day give you a smile or a chuckle? That’s what this is about!
Then the cool, uncool thing came in and I, for one, meant to be funny or silly at the least. Now it’s a post about “style” and "politics". Geeze, if any of us were in style, we wouldn’t be nerds now, would we?

BC, I don’t know quite how to take your replys in this thread.
You said: “I don’t know what is more pathetic, writing day after day on an internet board about plastic or ceramic collectibles, or doing just that and then trying to act like it is cool. For crissakes, get over it.”

I don’t believe anyone here claims to be ‘cool’ because they communicate with others of similar interest on a message board. That has never been a real good way, in my experience, to pick up members of the opposite sex. “Hey, baby…I, uh, post on Tiki Central…wanna come up to my room for a Mai Tai?”
Okay…so it worked once. But she was really, really drunk!

When I said Tikiphiles kick peoples asses, I was joking. Can some of us kick ass? I’m sure a few of us can if we felt like it. Can some Klingon costume wearing nerd? Probably so, if they wanted to. (Those damn Klingons are violent!)

So I guess my comments should’ve been: “Trekkies don’t pull peoples arms outta their sockets…Tikiphiles have been known to do that.” (Twist on an old Star Wars line for those of you who don’t see it.)

It’s humor. I know it looses something in the text translation, but my comments were not meant to be threatening. Can’t you picture a guy in a Tiki bar, wearing a Hawaiian shirt and a lei, placing his hands proudly behind his head, flexing in a threatening gesture to some small guy in a Mr. Spock uniform?

But then we have the issue of style and coolness.

Frankly, I could give a good shit what people think of me in my personal time. In my work, I hang out with so many (allegedly) cool and (supposedly) uncool people that it really doesn’t effect me. The perception of being cool in today’s world is an act. I do it every day. In fact, it sickens me.
So for BC to imply that it does matter by saying “Get over it…” is completely wrong.

We collect. We do it out of whatever reasons we have. We don’t feel a need or a desire to “justify” ourselves to anyone. We don’t mind being nerds because that leaves less artifacts for us to ad to our own collections. THAT is the difference between us and Trekkies. We don’t mind being nerds and that, in a sense, makes us cool in our own rights.

Tekkies had a movie made about how nerd-uh, obsessive they are and they didn't care. That, to me, makes them cool because they love what they are into and they really don't care what others think.

Independence is cool.

“Cool” is different. There are many descriptions for the slang term, but bottom line is, cool is different and attractive to someone. (What a hot rodding motorhead may think is cool, a Trekkie may not and vice-versa. What is cool to a drug dealer may not be cool to a law abiding citizen.)
“Style” is all public perception. What is in style today may be out tomorrow. And yesterday’s styles will be back early next week. Who cares?

And politics? How the hell did that come into play? I suppose, to be politically correct, we should all try to convenience ourselves that we are nerds...Or, better yet, that there are no nerds at all, just collectors. Fine, we’re all nerds. If it makes someone feel better to think that, then so be it. Because we’re about making people feel good here.

(Guys, I guess a majority of us will have to be “womanizing nerds” because we ogle the chicks!)

For the record, I don’t find Trekkies in general to be nerds…just a little eccentric. But then again, what are we if not a little eccrentric ourselves?

Donhonyc said: “I guess we're just the bookworms of popular culture. In my opinion, not a bad avenue worth exploring. So screw the nay-sayers. Let them eat the cake of Britney Spears and Shakira. Long live the men and women that scour the thrift stores of culture to find the real origins of fun!!! “

Thanks for keeping some humor in this post, Don!

Beam me up, Scotty!

When I put my post up last night, I hadn't read any of the posts on this thread, there was already a ton up there, I just saw the topic and responded to that. On closer examination I see alot of talk about what is cool and not cool. I have a few opinions on this. First, cool is whatever YOU want it to be. Second, I'll just say, if you'll indulge me for a sec, what I think is cool: Cool is NOT what you see on TV. Cool is definitley NOT on MTV that's fer sure. Generally speaking the 'youth culture', the so-called 18-34 group (where people used to look for the roots of 'cool') is so NOT cool anymore. Anything the media says is cool is NOT NOT cool. Cool is something you don't know about yet. Cool is also something buried somewhere awaiting your (re)discovery. And perhaps I'll get some grief for this, but the old standard icons of cool (people mostly from the 50s and 60s) in the context of those times, are STILL COOL and always will be. They invented cool. People try to duplicate it and live but can't. Wrong time, wrong place. And last but not least I'll say this: TECHNOLOGY I'm afraid to announce is NOT cool . That's right folks..all of us in this world dubbed 'cyber space' ARE ALL NERDS. NO ONE gets a free ride on that one. Anybody with a computer 20 years ago was 'a nerd', and guess what...still applies now, there's just more out there so it isn't as obvious. It's sorta like that Frank Zappa song 'Plastic People' where Frank sings about, uh...plastic people. At some point in the tune he says 'then go home and check yourself...you think we're singin' 'bout someone else'.

So lighten up. Make a Mai-Tai, plug in the tiki lights and embrace you're geekiness! Oh yea..one more thing...I DON'T wear Hawaiian shirts...that's for nerds!
:drink: Aloha!

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-08 11:38 ]

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-08 11:40 ]

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-08 11:44 ]

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-08 11:46 ]

Okay, Stingray, you got me. I took the fun out of this. I just see a lot of people going back and covering up what they said. In your last post, you now say that Trekkies are cool becuase they don't care. Yet, for twenty consecutive posts, long before, there were so many negative comments about Trekkies going "Phwwt" and Tikiphilies kicking ass, or other blasts at Trekkies, in an attempt to lift ourselves up to a higher eschelon.

My point was: I'm not ashamed to write here or collect Tikis, and I find it silly to have to justify that. If the original post was just for humor, I thought I was staying with the general sentiment. I thought my posts were funny, but that's just me. If you read them again, they were just sort of meant to poke fun at the flow of our collective discovery of Pop idols, in the 20th century. I get a kick out of how absurd it is. But, maybe my perceptions hit too close to home for some. Peace brothers! I never meant to offend anyone... all in good fun.

I agree with Slovak, I'm too old to care what's nerd or cool. "I gotta be me!"

Well martiki6 funny you should ask what dose "hell's teeth" mean, since my dad claimed to have invented this saying in the 1960's, but basically its a phrase of extreme exasperation.

Ladies! Gentlemen! Wait a minute!

Tiki transcends nerd, geek and cool. We have a higher calling in this life than most. We should just be thankful for our Tiki obsession.

Some folks think we're cool. Others think we are geeks or nerds. What we are is above all that. We are able to socialize together whether we are considered cool, nerdy or geekish. Most of us don't really see that in each other. We know what really matters...

Tiki!

This was in the paper today. it may clear things up for those of you who really care.

Hipster quiz
So, are you a hipster? Or even a reasonable facsimile thereof? If you have never kissed a person of the same gender, or if you tend to buy greatest-hits albums, things don’t look promising.

According to the "Handbook," a "yes" to any of the following dooms you to the hipster version of the Lake of Fire. You’re closer to hip surgery than hipster.

• Do you read novels with raised lettering on the cover?

• Do you say "think outside the box" or "ducks in a row"?

• Do you use the "high five"?

• Do you go out in public with an iguana, snake or ferret around your neck?

• Do you like cocktails with suggestive or dirty names?

• For men only: Do you wear your hair in a ponytail?

• Have you ever considered botox, implants or cosmetic surgery?

• Do you like college football?

• Do you frequent bars with dartboards?

If you gathered more than a couple of nos, fine, you’re not a total stiff. But you’re still several goatees away from being a hipster.

Yes answers to the following questions will bring you closer to the hipster elite.

• Do you now or have you ever worked as a record-store clerk, bike courier, production assistant, Web designer or massage therapist?

• Have you ever faked a European accent at a job interview?

• Are you a fan of Maggie Estep, Jim Jarmusch, Jeff Tweedy and/or the Yeah Yeah Yeahs?

• Do you own tiki-style cocktail glasses?

• Do you prefer the Italian Vogue to the American version?

• Do you know what http://www.nerve.com is?

• Do you enjoy declaring random things, like vodka martinis or exercise, passé?

However elite they may be, hipsters aren’t a homogenous bloc, like the Kiwanis. "The Hipster Handbook" breaks down the various types you might be expected to run across from the style-conscious trust-funder (the UTF), the networking, career-minded party animal (the Schmooze), the blue-collar beer-guzzling hipster (the Bipster) and the bookish, super-serious, politically minded coffeehouse blowhard (the Polit).

See the whole article here:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/March/06/style/stories/01style.htm

• Do you like cocktails with suggestive or dirty names?

Whoa!!! Stop right there!

I guess they're talking about things like "slow comfortable screws..." and the like. But if a Vicious Virgin or Missionary's Downfall would be included, then I must respectfully disagree.

-martin

I like a Between the Sheets now and then - the more often the better :wink: I'll pass on the Slippery Nipple or Screaming Orgasm.

I...am a geek with extremely good taste. :)

em

I...am a geek with extremely good taste. :)

em

Is Vaal a wayward lost Tiki god?

"In the episode, The Apple, the inhabitants of Gamma Trianguli VI worship the God Vaal, which appears as the gigantic face of a snake-like reptile made of lava rock with burning eyes. Vaal provides an idyllic life for the people in exchange for fuel to power its energy systems."

And the inhabitants live in thatched tiki huts!

[ Edited by: Futura Girl on 2003-03-07 19:56 ]