Tiki and Caribbean. Can they be mixed?

As a musician, it seems to me that even 50's exotica was already mixing the two by incorporating a LOT of Latin musical elements into the exotica mix (cha-cha, bossa, merengue, etc.). These are clearly Caribbean rhythms, not Polynesian.

So, do you throw out all your Drasnin, Lyman and Denny records? NO -- OF COURSE NOT! You mail 'em to ME! I will fall on the sword, and take those infidel, non-tiki EEEEE-vil discs off your hands, and because I'm such a nice guy, I'll even do it for FREE!

:D

Like Tikibars says, "My advice is to attempt to be a purist - but not a SNOB - whenever possible. Stick to the Polynesian, but relax and don't be a weenie about it."

Good advice on any level, IMO. As far as my wife and I are concerned, we're slowly decorating in what you might call a Hawaibbean kind of theme. Whatever blows your skirt up!

:drink:

Kanekila

[ Edited by: Kanekila 2005-11-17 06:08 ]

There is tiki in the Dominican Republic:

For sale:
http://www.johnharveyphoto.com/DominicanRepublic/CarvedWood.html

Indigineous peoples'tiki at the nature theme park:

http://www.manatipark.com/eng/pobladofot.htm

It will be interesting to learn of the history of these carvings and whether they are inspired by pre-contact gods or the tourist "God of Money" tiki.

And this is the point in time when I ask....

do you pronounce it "CARE-AH-BEE-IN" OR "CAH-RIB-BEE-AHN".

I always thought that argument was a fun one...

"NON-TIKI" - An Humble Opinion

I'm beginning to visualize a "lost Twilight Zone" episode, where Fritz Weaver looms imperiously over a scruffy Burgess Meredith, pointing an accusing finger and booming the arch pronouncement, "You are NOT Tiki...!" Yikes. Did the Tiki Police find his hidden recordings of 'Amazon Falls' or 'Mombasa After Midnight'? Little Burgess trembles under his zebra-skin Fez, defiantly clutching his last bottle of Myers, as the drums build and he is enshrouded in fishnet, "You Will Be 'De-Carved'...!"

Or, the Outer Limits might make a good spin: "There is nothing wrong with your Tiki Bar -- WE will control your non-Polynesian decor percentages..." Yikes.

Oh please. If you're not a credentialed Anthropologist, the "percentage ratio" of Polynesian-to-Caribbean in one's decor is indisputably up to the individual participating in what's come to be generally called "tiki culture". Unless of course you want to turn your back on Robert Drasnin's "VOODOO" (1 & 2), or start segregating Les Baxter's catalogue into separate camps (ditto Arthur Lyman and Martin Denny), removing Latin, Arabian, and African influences. Get that leopard jacket out of the wardrobe, and turn off those blowfish. (No blowfish with an electric lightbulb in it is in any way a "Polynesian" artifact.) Oh yeah, no more rum either -- but we'll be spitting around a shared KavaKava bowl later. Yum.

How strict should the "rules" be? Is the definition to be carved in ancient stone, or living wood? Is this question based on a serious regard for strictly authentic Polynesian aesthetics, or an arbitrary interpretation of the libation-related "theme warfare" between Don Beach and Vic Bergeron, that morphed into the mash-up subsequently called "Polynesian Pop"?

Let's have a good look at your mug collection, pal. A good many tiki mugs are based not on Polynesian, but on African (and Central American) designs. Are they "tiki" enough? Are they "tiki" at all? No Caribbean-influenced mug postings, please. Zombies? No way! And it may be best to cull the steel-drum stuff out of the record collection, just in case, lest one be pronounced "Non-Tiki".

BTW Tiki-Disney-Fans, Is Captain Nemo more "tiki" than Captain Sparrow? (Nemo's secret island base was in the South Pacific and he was familiar with the cannibal cultures there, yet Sparrow knows quite a bit about rum, and the value of personal freedom...) And just how the heck did those parrots get into the Enchanted Tiki Room, anyway?

The "percentage" is amorphous! And should be, no offense to those who would keenly define their own purity of "Polynesian" to "Pop" in their pad. And unless someone wants to coin a new term for the "island madness" many of us are in the grip of (e.g., "Tropical Exotica" -- "Tropixotica"? Oooo.), then for many, "tiki", by default and "pop" tradition, covers a broad, happy spectrum.

This is not meant to show any disrespect toward those who do indeed pursue a near-anthropological zeal for authenticity with their craft, collections, etc. But let's face it, what's "tiki" and what isn't has been up for liberal interpretation since Voodoo and Moais first met, in a bar serving rum drinks beneath the glow of electrified sea life.

Tiki Culture, Polynesian Pop, Voodoo Dreams, Island Madness, Jungle Fever, they're all interwoven to some extent, and like fishnet, they snare a wonderfully diverse catch. It's the romance, freedom, and adventure (and possibly the climate) that many of us "Tropixotics" are attracted to. Possibly the rum, also.

As for the Demented Menehunes, we're all happy here on YoYo Island, down in the steamy, tropical "Micronebbean Sea", where our tikis (are moai's technically "tikis"?) share the turf with the odd wayward pirate or lost adventurer, and everybody's welcome to wash up and have a little fun.

Isn't having fun really what all this is about? (For those not working toward their Anthropology degree, that is.)

Cheers and Fabloha Nui!
SOK

(ps, I'm not givin' up the zebra-skin Fez, either...)

"Don't let it be forgot,
That once there was a Spot,
Where Blowfish all wore sunglasses,
and Tiki-times were hot..."

[ Edited by: Son-of-Kelbo 2007-03-30 13:22 ]

[ Edited by: Son-of-Kelbo 2007-03-30 20:02 ]

The whole pirate thing turns me off. Looters, organized criminals, predators, and terrorists in actual historical reality. The stereotypical, romanticized image that comes to us through literature and pop culture seems best left to kids. Don't mean to be harsh and offensive, but really.

Things overtly Latin and/or Caribbean, fantastic though they so often are, tend to bring to mind unsoothing realities like: Iberian colonialism of the new world; plantation economies; slavery and racial politics; etc. That's some very heavy reality baggage.

The idealized tiki guy/gal has been all around the world and can dance the samba with the best of them. Knows how to play steel drums too, by the way. But in his/her personal and home style, that oasis of personal relaxation and expression, the imagery derives from and the sounds suggest: Polynesia. That's, like, pretty much just the way it is. Is this a rule? Is it enforced by percentages? Hardy har har. No, it's just the way it is. Tiki is a link to a faraway, exotic, cultural sphere with a whiff of timelessness. Major doses of fantasy and "looseness with the (historical) facts" tossed in the mix for sure. But if you don't get why inserting into such an environs, say, reggae (a modern pop music form centered around specific circumstances and grievances originating in the Caribbean nation of Jamaica) draws attention to itself and creates discordance rather than blending into and enhancing the mix, then you aren't serious. And it's OK not to be serious. It's a free country, for heaven's sake! But it's actually more fun to be serious about these things. The pirates and parrots aren't fun. They're tired. Reggae sounds kind of fun, but it's actually quite angry most of the time. They should be treated politely but guided smoothly to another area.

I like my Tiki illuminated by crackling firelight, shrouded by low hanging Spanish moss and surrounded by ancient Southern Live Oak and palm in shadowy silhouette by the moonlight.

[ Edited by: Swamp Tiki 2007-03-30 21:39 ]

[ Edited by: Swamp Tiki 2007-03-30 21:48 ]

Well the root of this conundrum for me is that most all of Tiki-Polynesia Cocktalia is based on RUM drinks, and RUM has risen out of the sugar cane of the Carribean and South American colonies. Go figure. After the British captured Jamaica in the 1660's their navy took it round the British Empire, including Australia.
To be truly authentic, drink KAVA at your Tiki Bar. You will have awesome dreams of Thomas Cook and a numb toungue and esophogus.

So, If RUM is Caribbbean, Carribbean has Parrots, Parrots are for pirates, Pirates sail the seven seas, the mutiny on the Bounty, and before you know it, your drinking Zombies and wearing a grass skirt.

Its like six degress of separation with booze---lets not get too snobby here.

Carribean flavor-- not anathema to Tiki
Nautical and Pirate theme-- More Tiki than not
Polynesia Tiki- Tiki-riffic
Rum- The Universal booze of sunny places
Vodka Drinks- Russian pirates or the land bridge from Siberia perhaps

Cheers!

I'm not approaching this from any sense of "historical accuracy" whatsoever. Absolutely, rum is of the Caribbean (and is also, historically, THE American drink, the (often only) tipple of our nation's founding generation (thus in a sense about as exotic as apple pie)).

So it's not about historical arguments for me, it's about fantasy, and using creativity and aesthetic sensitivity to further this. To me, tiki style represents an openness to alternate reference points, and the classic way to achieve this openness is by traveling out and about in the world. Any number of ways: as jet-setter (cue Brazil 66 soundtrack); as beatnik/backpacker and/or surfer (cue Endless Summer soundtrack); or as cosmopolitan hipster who travels vicariously by exploring the foods, music, style, etc. of the world without necessarily leaving his/her city.

A classic way of signaling this ethos is via a touch of nautical imagery. "Nautical" to me is the brown rice upon which the stir-fry of "tiki" rests. "Nautical" points in all directions without explicitly identifying with any one. Cape Cod. Coast of Africa. Tahiti. St. Somewhere, West Indies. "Nautical" is neutral. Love that brown rice. Gotta have some of it.

Trouble is, "nautical" leads down some very tiresome roads. Look at the section of this stuff in your local lowbrow dept. store (we have a Beales here with lots of it). Yes, it's worth looking over now and again but almost always it's pirates this, parrots that, faux-life preservers with something like, "No shirt, no shoes, no problem" written on them, seagulls drinking beer with "gone fishing" written below them, etc. etc. This stuff draws attention to itself but leads your imagination nowhere. It stupefies, stay away from it.

To me, pirates and parrots and what have you are from that world. They aren't original. They are trite and cliche`. This isn't a historical argument, it's a value judgement. I don't get uptight and act superior when I see them. I just don't care for them as design elements in an environment that is otherwise intended to be "tiki." I think it's a carryover from our Puritan heritage to associate the sensual pleasures signaled by tiki music, drinks, and aesthetic style with barbarism (the pirates) and/or dissolute slacking. Tiki is beyond all that.

Bottom line!! If you like it. USE IT!! Aloha, Mon.

Although I have a stronger passion/history for such distilled grain whiskeys (Bourbon, corn whiskey, Rye)as the most "American" of spirits, rum is probably the one I would consider more as drink of choice of the "Americas".

I agree that appropriate nautical imagery is very philosophically central to Tiki--I have an antique ships wheel in my Tiki bar and I cant imagine it now without it- the "Age of Sail" lends a great amount to both genres- Carib and Tiki themes- Tasteful and moderate consideration are really a mater of personal choice. There are always a plethora of stamped plastic Tiki junk being extruded from the plastic mills of Asia for our consumption, and while some of them are repulsive and anathema to some, they are less so than others. However- even the most cheezy and plastic of items are sometimes worthwhile in their splendor--the glowing eyed tiki head cigarette lighter has its place in my bar.
And it begs the question- Frat house plastic napkin tiki parties are still Tiki parties- and so as the cultural ripple of Tiki has widened and travels through the masses searching for nostalgic identities and individuals to make their own, there will be an inevitible "cheapening" or degradation of the "base" or Hard core. Happened to punk music. Happened to Halloween. "From cheesy kitsch you emerged and to cheesy kitch you shall return" is the inevitible but sure reality. One can only hold and expect "standards" for their own sphere of influence- and either find themselves disqualifying newcomers in a pyramid scheme of ego or embracing the masses for a giant Tiki-man festival of non exclusiveness. So while the guy with the Corona sign and the Jimmy Buffet Luau aint my speed, I can change gears and at least accept the spirit of festival- celebration- libation at the core of this. Ok I am getting too anthropological now-off topic-

Cheers!

[ Edited by: Bincho 2007-03-31 16:44 ]

On 2007-03-31 10:16, Bincho wrote:
... Frat house plastic napkin tiki parties are still Tiki parties- ...

Are you sure?

I think its all good. But if you have all calypso style, and one tiki, wellllll.
Yer pushin' it.

Still workin on the collection of my as of yet unrealised tiki bar.

Tiki and Carribean share a close historical similarity.
The post-contact history of the indigenous Carribean peoples, the Taiano, is very similar to the those of the Rapa Nui and, to a lesser exent, native Hawaiians, because they both include exploiatation, forced migatration to work on plantations and destruction by european disease.

The Taíno, who had colonized all of the Caribbean by A.D. 1200, suffered mightily in the wake of Columbus and his fellow colonists who conquered Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Jamaica, and other islands. Whole villages were wiped out by Old World diseases, warfare, and forced resettlement near mines and plantations. By the early sixteenth century, nearly all the Taíno of the Bahamas had been removed to provide labor for Spanish interests in Hispaniola, itself largely depopulated after contact. Within a few decades, all traces of Taíno life had vanished. What did survive has come down to us in the form of commonplace words like barbeque, canoe, hammock, and tobacco.

http://www.archaeology.org/0101/abstracts/museum.html

The manifestations of the Carribean (Taino) gods, called Zemis, are very similar to the South Pacific tikis.
http://www.archaeology.org/0101/abstracts/museum.html

As the larger image indicates, the Zemi gods had a fierce expression, a head which is tilted forward, was based on ancestoral depictions and, most of all, was imbued with magical power. These are all characteristics of pre-contact Hawaiian tiki.

Other Zemi gods just look like tikis.
http://www.taino.org/cohoba_idol.html

On a lighter note, the Punta Cana Airport, in the Dominican Republic looks very tiki:
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/scokeri/slideshow2?.dir=64e7&.beg=1&.src=ph

On 2007-04-01 23:24, christiki295 wrote:
On a lighter note, the Punta Cana Airport, in the Dominican Republic looks very tiki:
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/scokeri/slideshow2?.dir=64e7&.beg=1&.src=ph

Perhaps you meant it looks very tropical. I went through all 82 photos in that slideshow and there were no tikis.

Great research, very interesting. I was just on one of those ex-Taino islands. Their horrible holocaust sounds akin to what was done to the Easter Islanders.

This thread is not questioning the similarity/compatibility of authentic Caribbean with Polynesian culture, but the mixing of their CLICHEE pop culture versions. And there, the palm-fronded, beer-neoned Florida "Tiki" bar clearly IS a sign of Tiki style devolution, a watering down to a generic, tropical theme.

Tiki has a specific set of icons, Pirate has its specific set of icons, Nautical has its own catalog of symbols. All these overlap to some degree, but a sea food restaurant with ships wheels, fishnets, star fish, fishing floats and only one or two Oceanic carvings is still a nautical, not a Tiki place.

In turn, a Tiki bar without any nautical accents that create the flavor of the Seven Seas lacks in atmosphere. It is here where Tiki style's sub-styles, the Beachcomber style and the Trader style (which all merge in POLYNESIAN POP), come into play. Without them, Tiki style remains academic.

Now why is that so hard to understand!? :)

On 2007-04-02 09:44, bigbrotiki wrote:
. . .
And there, the palm-fronded, beer-neoned Florida "Tiki" bar clearly IS a sign of Tiki style devolution, a watering down to a generic, tropical theme.

Evidence of Tiki bar devolution, Caribbean style:

http://community.iexplore.com/photos/journal_photos/Tiki_Bar_Manuel_RCI.JPG

On 2007-04-02 09:44, bigbrotiki wrote:
.....

Tiki has a specific set of icons, Pirate has its specific set of icons, Nautical has its own catalog of symbols. All these overlap to some degree, but a sea food restaurant with ships wheels, fishnets, star fish, fishing floats and only one or two Oceanic carvings is still a nautical, not a Tiki place.

In turn, a Tiki bar without any nautical accents that create the flavor of the Seven Seas lacks in atmosphere. It is here where Tiki style's sub-styles, the Beachcomber style and the Trader style (which all merge in POLYNESIAN POP), come into play. Without them, Tiki style remains academic.

Now why is that so hard to understand!? :)

PREEEEEEEEEEEEEEECISELY!!!!!!!!!!
And to up the ante. My as of yet unembodied tiki bar will have a name that if researched will reveal that it IS NOT Polynesian in origin. But it will have a back history of a man who traveled all through the Pacific during a time of great peril and violence. So I am kind of interested to see if after I finally flesh it out, and its name is actually traced to a different Pacific culture, will it be considered "tiki"?

And if you look back through the archives, you'll see me pointing out many years ago the tiki/carribean rum connection. Heck some of the early Trader Vic's or Trader Dick's or whichever Trader menus and illustrations sure look to be Caribean Islands and not Polynesian...

[ Edited by: TikiGardener 2007-04-02 20:03 ]