Hello everyone,

So here's the deal. This guy contacts me out of the blue to sign his card to go with some horrible mug based on one my illustrations. He never asked permission from me, apparently his father saw my design in Tiki Magazine and attempted to make it into a mug. This jordan baker guy calls himself teaKEY on TC and he claims I should feel honored and that it's a tribute. Unfortunately, I don't feel so honored and it's definitely no tribute, I feel ripped off. Had he asked first it would be a different story. Further more, I don't know how many he intends to make not to mention I have plans in the works to do a Tiki Dawg mug of my own. Please tell me, is it cool to jack someones idea and make a product??!!! I'm a big fan of Shag, Derek and Doug Horne, I guess they won't mind if I make a mug based on their art without asking and then ask them to sign a card after the fact, right?? sike

thanks,

Hassan

judge for yourself:

Wow. Volatile question.

I think that older designs that have sort of entered the public domain are probably okay to use-- think of Gecko's take on the old TV seahorse design. Copyrights, patents or whatever may have expired, or maybe you just have no idea who to ask about permission. Chances are, the person you'd ask is dead anyway.

For newer designs based on the artwork of living people, I think permission is not only polite, it's required. If an image is being used commercially (like on the cards) without permission, then that's copyright infringement. That's the law. If the image appeared in Tiki Magazine, then it's probably copyrighted already. Subscribing or purchasing an issue of a magazine does not entitle the buyer to use of the images inside.

I'd suggest contacting the person and trying to work something out. What you work out is up to you. As the copyright holder, you're holding all the cards.

....first off, it's not illegal to copy a design for ones own personal use...only to copy it and turn around and make money off it...whether that entails selling reproductions directly or somehow using said design in ones place of business, in effect using your design in a place where they are making money, though not directly from your piece.....for example, it's not illegal for someone to make a copy of my famous martini lamp and place it on their bar at home...they are not making money off it in any way and there's no harm done...all they are doing is proving what a cheapskate they are to their friends..however, if they choose to start producing them on their own and making a buck, well then that is the illegal part....also, if someone buys my martini lamp or two off the shelf, incorporates those into a larger sculpture or work of art and sells it, it's not an infringement...the reason being is that anytime you buy a product from a commercial source you are in effect paying the designer or artist of said work through that transaction...the person who created it got their money for it somewhere along the line...once the item is bought, it's the buyer's item to do with what they want (except copy it and sell them, on their own, of course)

..now, i'm suprised at teakey, especially after he got all up in my face for me using a graphic that wasn't an original of my own accidentally and unknowingly in one of my light boxes.....(see a previous thread concerning my lamps)

anyway, if he's not producing and selling them the best you can do is be flattered...he should also acknowledge that it is your design, if people ask him.....

and by the way, that sculpt is very unflattering to your original work, hassan....in fact it's almost embarrassing....it looks like an angry turd mug....i know YOU could do much better...

in fact, now that i look at it, you may want to distance yourself from this alleged "mug" as fast as possible...i don't think you want your good name associated with this travesty of a mug sculpture in any way, shape, fashion or form...

RUN HASSAN,!!! RUN FAR AND FAST MY FRIEND!!

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-08-07 13:14 ]

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-08-07 13:17 ]

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-08-07 13:19 ]

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-08-07 13:20 ]

The email sent to you over a month ago and therer were email before that

If you saw the mug in person you would only have joy about it. My dad surprized me with this one off mug for my birthday. I'm the one who is on the internet and loves tiki. My dad doesn't know too much about the ins and outs of tiki but he has made what I think are the greatest tiki mugs ever and yours would be included into this niche. He saw your logo in tiki magazine and he nor I was familar with your work before this mug.

Its a tribute mug to you and to me, I guess, from my dad. This mug is not going to be reproduced or sold. Not only is it not for sale, we have never made a massproduced mug but I have many of my own designs that I will someday want to make. This mug was a labor of love and I hope you like what you see. Its your work in a different direction. And the design credits for this incrediable mug is all in your name as shown on the card that I hope you will sign.

Your email to me today

Your audacity is incredible. Your knock off mug is not a tribute to me and it's not even a good representation of my design, if anything, the mug makes me look bad! Your telling me you made one, how the hell do I know that to be true??!! Further more, what makes you think I wouldn't want to put my own Tiki Dawg mug out??!! Thanks to you the cats' out of the bag and now there will be 2 versions floating around out there, an authentic Tiki Dawg mug and a lousy cheap imitation. So let me make this perfectly clear, NO I will not sign your stupid card. Do not contact me anymore, have a great life.

Ouch

..and that, kids, is the long and short of it.....thank you and goodnight.

in fact, now that i look at it, you may want to distance yourself from this alleged "mug" as fast as possible...i don't think you want your good name associated with this travesty of a mug sculpture in any way, shape, fashion or form...

RUN HASSAN,!!! RUN FAR AND FAST MY FRIEND!!

Don't even get me started with your "art"

pow!

[ Edited by: filslash 2008-09-20 15:45 ]

On 2007-08-07 13:30, teaKEY wrote:

in fact, now that i look at it, you may want to distance yourself from this alleged "mug" as fast as possible...i don't think you want your good name associated with this travesty of a mug sculpture in any way, shape, fashion or form...

RUN HASSAN,!!! RUN FAR AND FAST MY FRIEND!!

Don't even get me started with your "art"

awww c,mon....it would be refreshing to hear some negative stuff about my art for a change ...i get weary of hearing how wonderful i am all the time....plus, it would be very entertaining to me as well as others here at t.c. i'm sure.....

Does the bus stop here?!?!? Oops, sorry, wrong thread...

Excellent

It's about time for another round of rip-roaring, knockdown, drag out, good old fashioned mug and art mud slinging...take this one to the mat!

Let's make this a no holds barred, bare knuckled, bloody spectacular.

Cage fighting Tiki Central style...gotta love it.

Do The Crusher!

Official Disclaimer: I do not support the stealing of other people's work for personal or financial gain, nor do I support lab testing on animals!

Psycho Tiki D (I know I am, let's have a war)!

Wow! Ouch and double ouch!

I know TeaKey as a passionate FAN of Tiki culture, and only that, a fan....and I remember that his dad was previously inspired to make a one-off ceramic of Jochen's Armchair Traveling logo Tiki...to which Jochen reacted positively flattered and intrigued. I thought it was really sweet.

So where is all that bad mana coming from, sweet lordy!? I am in utter disbelief.

I think you're all being ridiculous.

If someone was taking your art, reproducing it and selling it as their own design or putting your name on it and selling it as by you, that would be most likely grounds for a lawsuit.

However, from what I've seen, someone took inspiration from your drawing and made a ceramic mug that looks similar to your artwork. And no one did it behind your back -- the son sent you a note and a photo of the final piece. You yourself describe it as a poor representation, so you obviously don't think it looks enough like your own work.

It's pretty common in art schools for students to copy other people's work in order to learn their craft and develop their own skills and techniques.

It's one thing to do such things for fun or for learning, and it's a different thing if someone is trying to make money off your design. But there's been no evidence of the latter. So I'm failing to see what the real problem is.

"Official Disclaimer: I do not support the stealing of other people's work for personal or financial gain, nor do I support lab testing on animals! "

Same here.

I'm not looking for a fight, sorry to disappoint. But I'm up for a chat. You won't hear me say "angry turd","cheap imitation", or "stupid card"

On 2007-08-07 14:08, arriano wrote:
I think you're all being ridiculous.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Although I prefer psycho!

teakey, dude can we get a shot of the mug on a slight angle similar to the artwork posted, because, damn, it looks pretty frickin' close to the picture! By the way, not knowing your dad's talents and abilities, I would say he did a pretty good job representing a ceramic version of the artwork.

If there wasn't any initial objection, it does seem pretty unfair this was brought up here. It doesn't appear any intentional wrongdoing was at hand?

I think the two of you (the original artist and yourself) should have a collaboration on this mug. Prove all us instigators wrong. :)

PTD

I must admit, I have checked in on this website for some time now and I have never felt the need to chime in (or even join) until now.
Let's get this straight teaKEY- yer dad made you a mug. Nice. Swell. BUT- I do remember when YOU got on another TC members ass for using someone else's artwork. YOU yapped about infringement and the like... actually I think it was McStagger's work. I believe it was a lightbox. So, what's the difference?

And I believe in all kinds of "ART" so long as it is YOUR OWN.
Dummy.

On 2007-08-07 18:16, Psycho Tiki D wrote:

On 2007-08-07 14:08, arriano wrote:
I think you're all being ridiculous.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Although I prefer psycho!

teakey, dude can we get a shot of the mug on a slight angle similar to the artwork posted, because, damn, it looks pretty frickin' close to the picture! By the way, not knowing your dad's talents and abilities, I would say he did a pretty good job representing a ceramic version of the artwork.

If there wasn't any initial objection, it does seem pretty unfair this was brought up here. It doesn't appear any intentional wrongdoing was at hand?

I think the two of you (the original artist and yourself) should have a collaboration on this mug. Prove all us instigators wrong. :)

PTD

You think it's okay to steal from restaurants too, don't you?

I actually like the mug better ;/

On 2007-08-07 20:29, fatuhiva wrote:
I actually like the mug better ;/

Yeah, I actually like the mug better too, it goes well with the clumps of cat poop that I clean out my cat's litter box every night.

On 2007-08-07 13:48, Tipsy McStagger wrote:

On 2007-08-07 13:30, teaKEY wrote:

in fact, now that i look at it, you may want to distance yourself from this alleged "mug" as fast as possible...i don't think you want your good name associated with this travesty of a mug sculpture in any way, shape, fashion or form...

RUN HASSAN,!!! RUN FAR AND FAST MY FRIEND!!

Don't even get me started with your "art"

awww c,mon....it would be refreshing to hear some negative stuff about my art for a change ...i get weary of hearing how wonderful i am all the time....plus, it would be very entertaining to me as well as others here at t.c. i'm sure.....

Well, you won't get any negative comments from me, I like you work :)

On 2007-08-07 14:08, arriano wrote:
I think you're all being ridiculous.

If someone was taking your art, reproducing it and selling it as their own design or putting your name on it and selling it as by you, that would be most likely grounds for a lawsuit.

However, from what I've seen, someone took inspiration from your drawing and made a ceramic mug that looks similar to your artwork. And no one did it behind your back -- the son sent you a note and a photo of the final piece. You yourself describe it as a poor representation, so you obviously don't think it looks enough like your own work.

It's pretty common in art schools for students to copy other people's work in order to learn their craft and develop their own skills and techniques.

It's one thing to do such things for fun or for learning, and it's a different thing if someone is trying to make money off your design. But there's been no evidence of the latter. So I'm failing to see what the real problem is.

I agree with you to some degree, I still think he could have handle this situation better. For example, Tiki Ray is doing a special carving for the Tiki Magazine art show at the Bali Hai in November based on my design for the poster. Guess what? He asked me first, it's all about respect. It's not an ego thing, it's not a money thing, it's simply respect.

Yep. It's all about Respect