I just read a Shag interview from 2004 on-line yesterday , and it had me scratching my head . Check out the answers to these two questions :

Q : I believe you're a retro junkie (like most of us). Any interesting bargains lately? I imagine California is better than Manchester for retro chic? Anything you are still hunting for?

S : "L.A. is probably the world capitol of cool retro stuff, but it's gotten horribly expensive lately. I've found some great bargains in the past, but have been paying through the nose for other things recently. I'm still looking for an "ottoman" to go with the black leather Arne Jacobsen Egg Chair I found for $50 a few years ago. Unfortunately I've not seen an "ottoman" for less than $500..."

What's $ 500 to a mucho rich guy like Shag ?

*On 2007-09-20 13:13, ted tiki wrote:*I have five tattoos based on his work (Shag is cool with them-I asked him. My wife has one tattoo based on his work.

My wife and I are also huge Shag fans. We both currently have 1 Shag tattoo each, but I'll be getting another one this weekend and have plans for at least 2-4 more.

Someone needs to get a Shag tattoo. I mean really get Josh Agle's face on your back.

Now with all this Shag talk, his prints are probably going up in price as you read this.

I found and read the interview . Sounds to me like Shag is another of those crybaby cry poverty millionaires . If he wants a reconditioned Vespa let him shell out the dough for it and not get a tax write off ! His attitude turns me right off .

[ Edited by: Yamatiki 2007-09-20 21:58 ]

"cry poverty millionaires?"

I dunno Yamatiki - there's a lot involved in getting an art enterprise to actually pay cash money back to the artist after all the bills are paid.
For the longest while, clever ones learn to shuffle the numbers around and get things going, but actual green in the hand takes a lot of doing, and an awful lot of patience, paint, and perspiration.
Even real successful artists may have to wait a decade or more before that tipping point is reached.
For career survival and tax purposes, there are advantages in setting things up not to happen until well along the line - and popularity can vanish in a day.

If you were to meet the guy and chat with him for a few minutes you might conclude differently than you have.

On 2007-09-20 23:02, Tiki Lion wrote:
"cry poverty millionaires?"

I dunno Yamatiki - there's a lot involved in getting an art enterprise to actually pay cash money back to the artist after all the bills are paid.
For the longest while, clever ones learn to shuffle the numbers around and get things going, but actual green in the hand takes a lot of doing, and an awful lot of patience, paint, and perspiration.
Even real successful artists may have to wait a decade or more before that tipping point is reached.
For career survival and tax purposes, there are advantages in setting things up not to happen until well along the line - and popularity can vanish in a day.

If you were to meet the guy and chat with him for a few minutes you might conclude differently than you have.

Are you telling me that he can't afford to buy his own Vespa ??? :o

LOL ! You his accountant by any chance ?

[ Edited by: Yamatiki 2007-09-21 01:22 ]

On 2007-09-21 01:21, Yamatiki wrote:
LOL ! You his accountant by any chance ?

No.

But if I were his accountant three years ago, I would tell him to be very cautious in an uncertain market; if I were Shag then, I would listen, and behave frugally.

Art is a very fickle business. Three years ago I had not heard of Shag; today I realize I have seen his work in a lot of places, with a lot of people who don't recognize or get it.

I love the work. I expect it will maintain and increase in value.
I like the guy; I've met and talked with him and many of his friends.
But this very thread of Central Tikilites includes all kind of negative comments, both about the person of the artist, and also about his art.
I don't agree with most of them, but I only get my one vote.

If I were Josh Agle, I would be very cautious about counting on this group alone to sustain my career, and if even our blind fanaticism isn't dependable, can he confidently depend on another group?

If I were Josh, I would think about my mortgage, my children's education, getting old, and what I would do if some critic set his or her sights on me.

Right now the underpinnings of the US economy are not much more stable than they were toward the end of the 1920's, and high-income artists were scarce during the '30's.
If I were Josh Agle right now, I would be doing exactly as I see him doing: producing the art he has evolved that people seem to like, and not squandering the income.

We're not talking a castle in Scotland here ...He needed a tax write off in order to buy a $ 5000 Vespa ? $ 500 too much for an ottoman ? Give me a break !

Yama, I read into what you posted, which I looked at it as light humor. I highly doubt he was having an accountant looking into a way to write off a restored vespa. the ottoman chair was probably referenced as we all reference things like "I remember when original shag acryilic paintings were going for $2,000".....It seems that $500 is alot more than they used to be worth when they were actually the "IN" thing to have in your house. I remember in the late 80's- early 90's ottomans were lining the streets on trash day(not literally, but i remember a few or more headed to the refuse in my 'hood!). Considering the interview was written 3 years ago, before his big commision accounts were stable, I'm sure he can afford a castle full of ottomans and restored vespas. 3 years is a long time in the artworld, and it seems he has become an art veteran at this point. I wouldn't take that interview verbatim, or read into it to deeply. Josh has a "lighter" side to him.

On 2007-09-20 16:23, teaKEY wrote:
Someone needs to get a Shag tattoo. I mean really get Josh Agle's face on your back.

Now with all this Shag talk, his prints are probably going up in price as you read this.

..i think i'm going to find a picture of shag as a baby and get a that tattooed on me....

next time shag has a show, add up the cost of all the paintings sold, deduct half the total for the gallery cut and the other half is what shag walks away with ....plenty to buy a scooter...in fact, at one show in culver city in the late ninties (maybe as late as 1999 but definately prior to 2004), we figured shag walked with about $35,000 that night.....not bad for an evenings work...alot of poor folk don't make that in a year.

On 2007-09-21 08:39, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
next time shag has a show, add up the cost of all the paintings sold, deduct half the total for the gallery cut and the other half is what shag walks away with ....plenty to buy a scooter...in fact, at one show in culver city in the late ninties (maybe as late as 1999 but definately prior to 2004), we figured shag walked with about $35,000 that night.....not bad for an evenings work...alot of poor folk don't make that in a year.

Factor in overhead too.
( everyone always forgets the overhead )

==============================================

Overhead (business)
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It has been suggested that Operating cost be merged into this article or section. (Discuss)

In business, overhead, overhead cost or overhead expense refers to an ongoing expense of operating a business. The term overhead is usually used to group expenses that are necessary to the continued functioning of the business, but that do not directly generate profits. Typical examples of overhead expenses include rent, utilities, permits to operate a business, business name registration, and commercial liability insurance.

=======================================================

(I wonder how many artists here are ligit?)

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2007-09-21 09:08 ]

OK, pardon my slow uptake here.
Silly me for mistaking this win/lose debate for a discussion.

Here I was proposing an explanation for fiscal conservatism in light of a supportive group's suggesting an artist's popularity is fading, with possible negative effect on his income.

Let me see if I've got it right now: how's this:

$35,000 for one evening spent painting, times however many evenings spent painting that year, times a projected 30 year painting career is certainly a lot of money.
Just think: I could work 2, 3 evenings a year, become massively wealthy, and take the rest of my life off!

Is that more appropriate?

No thanks, I'll skip the measuring tape.

..right you are ben!!
.... hmmm....lemme see now.....we have brushes....we have alittle paint, maybe some primer perhaps.....and canvas!! yeah, gotta remember canvas!!...hmmm...have i left anything out??...comes to a grand total of about $300 bucks.....still not a bad return on his investment.....oh yeah, i forgot frames for some of the pieces...add a couple hundred bucks more (unless he's paying someone else to frame them).

man, you painters and illustrators got it so easy...almost no overhead to practice your craft....us poor crafters gotta shell out for a place to work, large shop equipment costing hundreds of bucks, all kinds of tools and shit, huge material costs, insurance and all that jazz......and then hope to god we sell something to help cover it.

!!! i wanna be a painter!!.....i envy you people!!

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-21 09:33 ]

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-21 09:38 ]

I just saw this in another thread and thought it would would be appropriate for this thread.

Ahem......NOT SHAG! Chad Otis is the artist.

Sorry I can't tell the difference!

On 2007-09-21 14:51, sputnikmoss wrote:
I just saw this in another thread and thought it would would be appropriate for this thread.

Ahem......NOT SHAG! Chad Otis is the artist.

Sorry I can't tell the difference!

I can.

The colors are the first giveaway.

Just because this is 50's Commercial style illustration art, doesn't mean it looks like SHAG. It doesn't
It's similar in style , but it's not quite SHAG.

SHAG-like, maybe, but not SHAG.

ON a side note to all of this, there is something else to consider.

How much does anyone in here think SHAG's TIKI art, which was most of his early stuff, has contributed to the resurgence of TIKI culture ?

I know when I was getting TIKI news back in the mid 90's, I discovered who SHAG was, but then discovered that I liked his art before I got into TIKI...namely his early record cover art...alot of which depicted TIKIS or some other Mid Century Modern iconic images.

When I saw SHAG'S early TIKI paintings and prints, it made me love TIKI even more.

I'd say the current popularity of TIKI and the current Popularity of SHAG are intermingled, and I really think he has something to do with it. I'd say he opened a floodgate or two with regards to Tiki culture, and today's increasing popularity of our favorite little subculture known as TIKI.

To me : OTTO SVEN SHAG BOSKO = The Beatles of the TIKI resurgence.

On 2007-09-21 14:51, sputnikmoss wrote:
I just saw this in another thread and thought it would would be appropriate for this thread.

Ahem......NOT SHAG! Chad Otis is the artist.

Sorry I can't tell the difference!

i could be wrong, but i don't recall a single exposed nipple in any shag paintings......(pasties don't count!)

"You may think it's boogers...but it's snot !!!"

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-21 16:25 ]

He needs to work on that. Nipples rule!

i could be wrong, but i don't recall a single exposed nipple in any shag paintings......(pasties don't count!)

Thats why I think I like this image. Like a Trader Vics bottle logo. I think I remember a reclining nude or two. Must be nipple free boobies.

This picture above reeks of Shag. There are a lot of people that bite his style. Anyone remember a shampoo company with Shag type of girls on Scooters. Tiki people like Shag style so who wouldn't want to get some of the Shag money /fame.

http://www.shootinggallerysf.com/shagNudes.htmle

Nope, No nipples

On 2007-09-21 17:02, teaKEY wrote:
http://www.shootinggallerysf.com/shagNudes.htmle

Nope, No nipples

.....and no link either, goo-goo!!......i think it no longer exists.

On 2007-09-21 17:02, teaKEY wrote:
http://www.shootinggallerysf.com/shagNudes.htmle

Nope, No nipples

you need to drop the e in the html...

Shag seems okay to me.

On 2007-09-21 09:32, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
..right you are ben!!
.... hmmm....lemme see now.....we have brushes....we have alittle paint, maybe some primer perhaps.....and canvas!! yeah, gotta remember canvas!!...hmmm...have i left anything out??...comes to a grand total of about $300 bucks.....still not a bad return on his investment.....oh yeah, i forgot frames for some of the pieces...add a couple hundred bucks more (unless he's paying someone else to frame them).

man, you painters and illustrators got it so easy...almost no overhead to practice your craft....us poor crafters gotta shell out for a place to work, large shop equipment costing hundreds of bucks, all kinds of tools and shit, huge material costs, insurance and all that jazz......and then hope to god we sell something to help cover it.

!!! i wanna be a painter!!.....i envy you people!!

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-21 09:33 ]

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2007-09-21 09:38 ]

I don't think that he runs Shagmart out of his studio.

And,,, I don't think he manages his own wharehouse either....

ie; overhead.....and, etc.....

...insurance is the real blood sucker!!!

p.s. He might be fading here on TC but outside of this site in the real world...

Not!

I don't think that he runs Shagmart out of his studio.

I heard that his brother runs Shag Mart

http://www.shootinggallerysf.com/shagNudes.html
no "e" now

On 2007-09-21 15:28, tikiyaki wrote:

On 2007-09-21 14:51, sputnikmoss wrote:
I just saw this in another thread and thought it would would be appropriate for this thread.

Ahem......NOT SHAG! Chad Otis is the artist.

Sorry I can't tell the difference!

I can.

The colors are the first giveaway.

Just because this is 50's Commercial style illustration art, doesn't mean it looks like SHAG. It doesn't
It's similar in style , but it's not quite SHAG.

SHAG-like, maybe, but not SHAG.

It's a bit more than "Shag-like" to me but I'm one of those weird mid-century collector dorks that wants nothing to do with the revival. Old school baby! I posted it more to show that the style is everywhere..even if it's not Shag himself. I can't help from thinking that with all of the fakes, phoneys, tributes, and real things out there the market is flooded and you won't be able to give the stuff away. If you love it..buy it, but you can't look at them as investments or you might end up like the crazy beanie baby people!

I agree with Bamboo Ben, leasing space for Shagmart, the insurance, employees etc.. is overhead, and it adds up, it is a business, located in a town were rent aint cheap.

Teakey, you are right, Shagmart is a company that is run by his brother Piet, but Josh is involved.

He can do what ever he wants with his money and it is none of our business, I expect some of the above referenced statements were tounge in cheek, but even if they were not, there is nothing wrong with being careful with your money. Especially when you have a couple of kid's futures to provide for.

Seems like there is a lot of bitterness and envy over his success. Personally I have met him and he seems like a sincere humble guy. He has contributed more to the tiki revival than myself and many others. In fact If I am not mistaken he made special prints for tiki central community.

I am happy for his success, and wish him even more.

Anybody who has ever seen his other artwork from early years and record covers knows he has the talent and ability to reinvent himself if he wants. But if he loves what he is doing, and the public obviously does, why should he?

On a selfish note if his popularity ever does drop to the point people are unloading his stuff, I will be first in line to buy more of his art. Somehow though, I do not ever see the day I can walk into a thrift store and buy a Shag.

On 2007-09-21 09:32, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
!!! i wanna be a painter!!.....i envy you people!!

Hey, paint and brushes are cheap, ya said so yourself, and panel's an easier setup than stretched canvas.

What's stopping you?

Try it, you might be good.

And when you're making a good living at it, count up all the hours you took to get there, and tally the expenses and let us know.

One more .....

"all the guy wants to do is paint!"

Let him do his thing.

I am a fan of Shag's work , big time ...But after reading that interview I came away with the impression that Josh is miserly . Hell , even in 2004 , at minimum he had to be grossing a high 6 figure income . People who make 1/10 or 1/20th of that could afford a Vespa with trying to get a freebie as a tax write off for chrissakes .

On 2007-09-21 21:10, Yamatiki wrote:
I am a fan of Shag's work , big time ...But after reading that interview I came away with the impression that Josh is miserly . Hell , even in 2004 , at minimum he had to be grossing a high 6 figure income . People who make 1/10 or 1/20th of that could afford a Vespa with trying to get a freebie as a tax write off for chrissakes .

You need a Shrink, man!