eh

[ Edited by: monkeyman 2014-01-20 16:13 ]

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2014-01-20 16:14 ]

Welllll...

Once upon a time when I had more money I would probably have felt the same. But nowadays I'm broke because I was out of work for quite awhile and am paying off debt.

Given that that's why I did not attend the Oasis, I must say that had I known I could've bought that mug and made a killing I'd have done it, because then it would've been possible for me to attend in the first place.

And that would've been worth it!!!

Anyway, this is a capitalist society, like it or not. As long as that seller didn't shove some nice tiki person out of the way or bribe/manipulate/put over a shady deal to get their mug, well...I don't begrudge them the profit. Much.

I just think they're dumb to sell the mug if they don't have to! But hey--maybe they DO have to...you never know.

My two cents (and that's all I have!) 8)

impecunious tikivixen

Yea, I know what you mean Monkeyman, I see this kind of thing all the time on eBay and something about it doesn't feel right...it just seems a little sleezy. At first I wasn't sure why I felt that way. Sure, the seller got the item legitimately and has every right to resell it for a profit. However, for me the problem lies in the lack of respect it shows for Munktiki, or for Shag, or for Bosko, or for whomever's high demand product they decide to flip over for a profit on eBay (not to mention the lack of respect it shows for fellow collectors). These artists are part of the current tiki community and in my opinion deserve mucho respect for their contributions. They should be encouraged to do more instead of being taken advantage of. For example, if you buy an item for say $10, then immediately resell it for $60, to me it feels like you're stealing $50 from the artist. If I were the artist, I would be pissed about that. Or if Shag signs something for you, he's not just handing you back a piece of paper with his signature, he's handing something with value (see link below). So if you turn around and sell that piece of paper you are, in a sense, stealing money from him. Arguably these artists could charge much more money for their products (yes, even Shag) but most keep it reasonable. On one hand, this kind of eBay opportunism allows the item to end up in the hands of the true collectors (as long as they have deep pockets). But on the other hand it drives the prices up across the board for everyone in the end. I'm not sure why I even bother to comment on this as I know the ruthless profiteering will never stop. With these ridiculous profits I see being made on eBay I admit that it is tempting to just say "screw it, everyone else is doing it, I might as well make some money too"...ah, the ethical delima. Sorry about the rant, but you struck a nerve...

Here's another (among many) that's been bugging me:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3520834278&category=20148

ModMana :drink::

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but so long as artists continue to rpoduce small quantities of mugs under the rubric of "limited edition" then their work will ALWAYS be subject to such profiteering. Because they CHOOSE to make limited quantities they cannot claim that they have been taken advantage of or that someone has stolen from them. If they don't want to see their stuff sold on eBay for ridiculous profits the answer is simple -- manufacture enough pieces to meet demand.

-Mug

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2014-01-20 16:14 ]

I wonder who the seller is.

As you can see by the seller's history, they are pretty much "a seller".

If you look at the seller's other auctions, you will see, as Monkeyman has pointed out, that the same seller has the ad card that tells about Shag's "Palm Springs After Dark" print that was for sale. Those cards were actually free, and the seller had Shag sign it, and is now for sale.

Lastly, this same seller has the actual "Palm Springs After Dark" print for sale. You could buy it for $300 in Palm Springs, and the starting price that the seller has it for is $475.

I believe this seller is trying to get his Palm Springs weekend paid for by his sales. Yes? No? Who cares?

Yeah, it's free enterprise, but it was/is/will-always bound to happen.

I don’t think it’s an especially nice mug.
I didn’t even see the tiki. I don’t collect, but I display and use what I have. If the rarity is the greatness of this item, that is what will happen. But I couldn’t bother less. maybe somebody got it as a present and wants to get rid of it?

KK

Good points all around. The Muggler obviously paid attention in Econ 101, and he sure knows his supply and demand theory. ModMana brought up "stealing from the artist". Just out of curiosity, have you seen these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3521050979&category=360

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3520519743&category=20158

Unfortunately these are two of the least blatant Shag ripoffs I've seen lately. With the possible exception of going to Shag's house, beating him with a rubber hose and stealing his wallet, this is as bad as "stealing from the artist" gets.

makes me wanna crack someone upside the head with a coconut.

Good points all around, although I think Muggler is spot on. My opinion is Shag is probably pissed all the way to the bank. The blatant opportunist perpetuates and probably increases demand, which in turn upsets us because we pay more in the end. The very first Shag print I purchased was $30.00. I can't imagine selling it but I love the fact that I could sell it for $500.00 if in a bind.

I totally agree with the idea of artist like Shag producing enough pieces to meet demand instead of manipulating the prices through their limited editions. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen given the current market. Personally I only buy the art because I love it, not necessarily for the investment value (although the escalating values helps to justify the purchases). I would love to see much larger or even open editions being produced.

ModMana :drink:

Modmana states that it shows a lack of respect for Munktiki for selling their mugs on Ebay for a profit. Here is a direct quote from Munktiki's site.
"Ok these Tiki Mugs of ours are sold only on Ebay. WHY? You may ask. Well it's like this, these mugs are limited editions. Only 100 of some and 150 of others will ever be made and Ebay is FUN. Hey you might even get a good deal on one of em. Just type in munktiki at the Ebay search box."

We have had a lot of this pressure in a different way. We have a long list of people who want us to get then a Shag mug at Hukilau. These are not people wanting to turn a profit, but people who want the mug. But with only 300 made, we have to give everyone actually at the event the chance to get one. That means these other folks will do without. We just need to figure out how to limit sales to people who want the mug to keep, not to profit from.

If an artist was really upset about all this would they not just stop producing or make the piece so expensive that only true collectors or the rich could purchase?

Do you really think that Shag doesn't know what is happening. If it bugged him that much, he would change it.

Now I love all of my special signed items and have never even thought of selling them. I hope that I like my stuff forever, but stranger things have happend. And if that day ever comes I'm going to sell the shit out of all of it.
Now what gets me about copyright is when you go to Mexico (or anywhere) and find an exact copy of an artist work, and it says "Shag welcomes you to Cancun" now that pisses me off.
That's my one cent

I agree with SCD and Bax, That's capitalism, folks! Ebay is based on speculation, pure and simple. Things like this happen because there is some moke out there willing to pay 50 bucks for a ceramic mug. So stop your pissin' and moanin'! The whole 'collector' thing has gotten out of hand anyway. What are you gonna do with all those old cups? They're just collecting dust! Get out of your room and get a job!

Wait until the next earthquake and the values will really go up.

Bax, did Shag really welcome you to Cancun? I though he was a Playa Del Carmen man. :sheckymug:

I have to admit, I love Shag's work...it makes me feel good. :)

[ Edited by: exoticat on 2003-05-20 02:54 ]