Lookie what I got last night!

These two tiki masks. I'm going to put them either near my front door or maybe even on the gate posts at the entrance to the property. Any ideas how well they'll hold up outside? What if I seal them?

Tiki masks

Lucky duck. Lockhart BBQ + Tiki = Heaven on Earth.

WOW you got those for a steal!
I would place them by your door, they are small enough to get lost at the gate.

On 2008-01-08 12:43, Unkle John wrote:
I would place them by your door, they are small enough to get lost at the gate.

In this case, that wouldn't be so bad now, would it?

On 2008-01-08 14:51, bigbrotiki wrote:
In this case, that wouldn't be so bad now, would it?

:D

I have to agree with the last two posts... those are hideous Indonesian interpretations of Tiki...

They would look considerably better if you sanded the loud Indonesian paint jobs off of them.

I didn't want to be mean, but I also could not let that stand there on its own. I understand that Janet might not have much extra dough with moving to a ranch and all, and that her Tiki dream seems far away, so it is understandable that she goes for a good deal. But Janet, there is a reason that these masks were hardly bid on and went for cheap. They are pretty far removed from real Tiki style. Maybe hanging them outside til they look old and weathered and the paint has come off will improve them...a little.

But Tiki has nothing to do with folksy colorful Mexican/Indian/Indonesian arts and crafts, Tiki has to do with mid-century lounges, Hawaiian and Polynesian carvings used as decor for those, and cocktail culture. It IS based on in-authenticity, but on a certain type of in-authenticity, one that was born out of a naive but honest fascination with the age old dream of Polynesia as an earthly paradise. These masks, I am afraid, were born out of the fascination with making a fast buck on the Tiki revival.

Please do not let this turn you off Tiki culture. Visit the carving forum, there are so many talented carvers out there that even I lost track. Look at what they are doing, and you will develop an eye for good Tiki. Here is one more example for the road (to Tiki enlightenment)

GOOD Tiki:

A solid American/Tahitian Tiki, based on Polynesian carvings, but with a modern touch.

BAD Tiki:

Horribly painted, run-of-the-mill caricature Tikis.

Note: Not just any carving with eyes and a toothy grin deserves to be called a Tiki.

Yes, it is all in the eye of the beholder, but this beholder here has beheld many MANY Tikis, and knows his godhead good.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-01-08 17:36 ]

Hey Janet, here's an example of a Maori Style Tiki. It's the one I told you about that's for sale. 1500.00 clams. I know I know, maybe out of reach but fyi. It's 12 ft. tall.
Lucky you, got a nice big ranch.

[ Edited by: Jungle Trader 2008-01-08 18:00 ]

On 2008-01-08 12:43, Unkle John wrote:
WOW you got those for a steal!
I would place them by your door, they are small enough to get lost at the gate.

I agree. At only a foot tall they may appear to small to have any visual impact on your entrance gate.

You could be silly and hang them together as if they were some sort of tiki version of the Comedy-Tragedy masks from the theater.

As for outside and durability, they should probably be OK as is. The paint is going to hold them for the first year or three, from there you will probably have to 'care' for them every so often with more sealer/paint/varnish.

You know, guys, if I had mega-bucks I'd GLADLY buy only authentic tiki. But I DON'T. Calling them "hideous" and insinuating that I have no taste at all is pretty low. I LIKE them. I also know they AREN'T authentic. But I'm going for an overall Polynesian theme. And I like bright colors. Hawaiian tiki may be plain colored, but Hawaiian decor in general is bright and friendly.

Now if some of you who gave more condescending responses want to give me, say, $10K, I'll gladly decorate the entire entrance area with only authentic tikis.

All that said, I can continue posting my "hideous" finds and ignore your insults, or I can simply stop posting my cool finds and stick to only the threads about creating concrete/foam giant tiki. (BTW, those aren't authentic either, but I guess they're OK because they're plain.)

A hobby, ANY hobby, including tiki, should be fun. I've known snobs in every hobby I've every participated in. So I guess I'm not surprised to find some here too.

Janetmermaid,forget the negativity. Everyone has different tastes and bad or good, it's all just interpretation. Keep buying what YOU like and have fun exploring the styles.

They'd look cool if you hooked up a couple of propane torches to em and have fire spit out the mouths! Freak out the neighbors!

On 2008-01-10 08:01, JanetMermaid wrote:
You know, guys, if I had mega-bucks I'd GLADLY buy only authentic tiki. But I DON'T. Calling them "hideous" and insinuating that I have no taste at all is pretty low. I LIKE them. I also know they AREN'T authentic. But I'm going for an overall Polynesian theme. And I like bright colors. Hawaiian tiki may be plain colored, but Hawaiian decor in general is bright and friendly.

Now if some of you who gave more condescending responses want to give me, say, $10K, I'll gladly decorate the entire entrance area with only authentic tikis.

All that said, I can continue posting my "hideous" finds and ignore your insults, or I can simply stop posting my cool finds and stick to only the threads about creating concrete/foam giant tiki. (BTW, those aren't authentic either, but I guess they're OK because they're plain.)

A hobby, ANY hobby, including tiki, should be fun. I've known snobs in every hobby I've every participated in. So I guess I'm not surprised to find some here too.

Janet,

Whatever you do (and I speak from painful experience) don't ever, ever, ever, paint the ceilings or walls of the inside of your house "white"! :)

No worries though, I have had some great responses to other finds I have posted, about 98% positive, 1% ribbing or joking and another 1% outright mean. But in retrospect, I have dished about the same amount out myself.

I don't think anyone meant any harm; you were just given a quick old school lesson in purist tiki design.

Keep the post and pictures coming, I for one, appreciate seeing what people have and do!

Psycho Tiki D (I know I am and joke 'em if they get too serious)!

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2008-01-10 09:21 ]

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2008-01-10 09:22 ]

I always look at my decor and collections as works in progress, you start out with what ever you can get your hands on and as your collection grows you can edit and refine. I get tons of condescending crap about my house because its not "old school bar decor" but I think my house is beautiful and Ive been perfecting my collection and the ambiance for almost 20 yrs!
I know what you mean by the statement that there always seems to be some snobbishness in every crowd. Ive been making tiki art for decades and still feel a bit like an outsider. But I'm going to keep trying. Its my passion with or without TC.
I do have to make clear that the friends I have made from being part of Tiki Central are the best friends Ive ever had!!!!!! and the most fun!

just do it your way, its your house, heres some recent pictures of my version of tiki decor that may not be considered "tiki enough"

Aaaaw, so you did take it personal. I am sorry.
You have to see the bigger picture here to understand where I am coming from. I care very deeply about Tiki or else I would not have not written two big fat books about it. As one of the main instigators of the the Tiki revival I feel a responsibility to the art form. The original mid-century Tiki culture faltered in the 70s and 80s when its main icon, the carved idol commonly referred to as Tiki, was, among other things, cutesied up by being painted in bright colors, and the whole culture was watered down to a non-specific "tropical" theme. It was the Devolution of Tiki. Eventually it was completely forgotten.

I do not want this to happen again, so when someone posts something like that as "cool Tiki" on this public, and also educational forum, I reserve the right to point out that it is a bad example of the style. I know I am fighting for a lost cause, and that everyone can and WILL do what they want, but so be it.

Bright and colorful is not necessarily wrong, but it is more Hawaiiana/Carribean/generic Island-style than Tiki.

Wow! That's gorgeous. I hope someday to end up with something like that, although I'll always go for a touch of kitch, just because that's the kinda girl I am. :D

Once again the 'knocking' of somebody's Tiki.. by our own Tiki 'God' !!!!!!

Dawn, you must be kidding! WHO is giving you tons of crap about your house not being "old school Tiki" enough?

If we support just ANYTHING here as Tiki, what are we left with? Obviously there are WORLDS of difference between your taste and talent and those two Indonesian Tiki attempts. This non-differentiating support-ALL-attempts attitude is just not very constructive in my opinion.

On 2008-01-10 09:56, bigbrotiki wrote:
.....attitude is just not very constructive in my opinion.

...much like Tikilale's constant remarks, too. :D

ha ha ha ... you f$%king snob !!!!

[ Edited by: mymotiki 2008-06-14 20:39 ]

On 2008-01-10 10:13, TikiLaLe wrote:
ha ha ha ... you f$%king snob !!!!

Are you looking in the mirror again?

On 2008-01-10 10:13, TikiLaLe wrote:
ha ha ha ... you f$%king snob !!!!

KoolKids AND snobs?
Tell us what you really think. I feel like you're holding out on us.

Now now, kids... :)

This difference in attitude here is also a result of cultural conditioning: In America, one grows up with the creed "If you don't have anything NICE to say, don't say anything at all!", while the German (and thus my) motto would be more like "If you don't have anything PRODUCTIVE to say, don't say anything at all".

I am not judging that here, both have their pros and cons, "NICE" can be very productive...it was just a thought that crossed my mind.

wow.....

On 2008-01-10 11:22, tikigreg wrote:

On 2008-01-10 10:13, TikiLaLe wrote:
ha ha ha ... you f$%king snob !!!!

Are you looking in the mirror again?

Hey tikigregbuddy... It's all right to take a shot at me ... If it feels better go ahead and take another one !!! It must be ruff being an Edumacator .. kids take pot shots at you and now with flu flying around like crazy ... it must be hell ..
I feel your pain !!!
I'm here till 4 EST.

Geez, I thought this was a FUN site. (where's the "rolleyes" smiley when I need it)

I appreciate the value of preserving traditional tiki knowledge. That doesn't mean there aren't fun ways to express the concept, or to incorporate some authentic tiki into what is an overall tropical/Polynesian theme.

If you're wealthy enough to purchase and decorate with only authentic items, good for you. But most of the free world is filled with working slobs like me, and we have to make do with the budgets we have. Suggesting an item and saying it is "only $1500" is ludicrous for most of us. $1500 is a lot of food and living expenses for me.

Knowing Jungle Trader I do not believe he was being sarcastic by offering that Tiki...though I was kinda surprised that he did, right after I had suggested that your choice was probably guided by your financial realities.

That is one of the hardest facts to swallow for the Tiki-inspired artists out there nowadays: So much talent and good work, and so little money to go around for it. And then come the cheap imports and get snatched up.

And true Tiki is fun..but mindful fun (despite the mindless posts here sometimes), not just a free-for-all party city kind of fun.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-01-10 15:15 ]

Hi Janet. Tiki Central is (or at least was) a fun site. Unfortunately, there is one individual who hangs out here just to throw sarcastic barbs at people. That person is best ignored or better left to the moderators, if they are paying attention these days. And, as for criticisms, it helps to have a thick skin and either learn something from it or let it roll off you.

On a positive note, do check out the Carving and Marketplace forums. There are some great artists there who sell their work for very reasonable amounts. Here's an example. That's quality stuff that has old school charm, yet with a modern twist. Another example. Just keep watching those forums and good, quality, affordable stuff pops up often that you can use to give your new place a great tiki vibe. Go with whatever works for you, but just keep in mind what Tiki Central is about when you post. Doesn't mean you can't post outside those guidelines, but you'll set yourself up for the kind of negative replies you've received.

Geez, I thought this was a FUN site.

If your idea of fun resembles what this site celebrates (again, see the link directly under "Tiki Central" above), then this is a FUN site. However, if you insist on broadening the focus to things that are indisputably outside of the clearly stated areas of interest, then YOU are the one who is raining on our parade, not the other way around.

However, TC people tend to be an accommodating, welcoming, and even inviting bunch. Newer users periodically pop up, with what many TCers might consider misguided enthusiasm for something that conflicts with the esthetic celebrated here. But the response is often an attempt to redirect the new person's interests, to appreciate the things that are celebrated here. They're not saying, "you're a dumdum for buying that." They're saying, "why not get out of that pool and come in over here, the water's fine!"

To put it another way, if you're interested in what's celebrated here and browse around this site, not only will you find a wealth of examples of what this site is really about, you will also find that many of those things fit ANY budget. And I'd contend you will also find FUN, but that partly depends on you.

As for bigbro's reference to Thumper's rule ("if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"), I personally try to use that when it comes to people, but not necessarily to things. So for example, I think I don't have anything nice to say about TikiLaLe for his/her comments on this thread, so therefore I will say nothing. But I think it's far too frequent that an unflattering appraisal of an object is interpreted as an insult to its owner, when that simply isn't the case.

-Randy

Hang on a moment - in all this deep discussion of tiki purism, lets consider the original post that started all this: JanetMermaid was happy wiht her purchase and asked about placement and weatherproofing. That is all. She didn't ask for anyone to pass judgment on her selection.

By the way, JanetMermaid, I've got a couple that are similar on my outdoor tiki bar. I know they are not classic tiki. They are fun. I like them. Enjoy yours.

When something that is a bad example of Tiki style gets posted as "Tiki" on e-bay, it is sad, but such is the way of things.

When something that is a bad example of Tiki style gets posted as "Tiki" on Tiki CENTRAL, I will call it out as such, for all the previously mentioned reasons.

On 2008-01-10 15:22, GatorRob wrote:
Hi Janet. Tiki Central is (or at least was) a fun site. Unfortunately, there is one individual who hangs out here just to throw sarcastic barbs at people. That person is best ignored or better left to the moderators, if they are paying attention these days. And, as for criticisms, it helps to have a thick skin and either learn something from it or let it roll off you.

Just one person, Rob? Sadly, I think there are at least a couple of trolls on this site, whether they are intentionally or unintentionally acting that way.

Everyone..... This whole thing could have been easily avoided if:

There is a Thread called "Tiki Finds". In theory, thats where this post should of went. No need to start a new thread. Based on history, its very doubtful "purism" would have became an issue in that thread. When you make it it's own thread and call attention to it... its gonna be debate time. The Search Engine would have answered any questions about weatherproof.

Pot shots at peoples money or lack there of, their jobs, etc.... weak.

I haven't posted much lately, and this thread is a reminder why. New posters too excited and posting too much before researching what this place is all about. Old posters bitchin about the new people. Old posters complaining about all the new mass produced crap merchandise, yet turning a blind eye to some of the utter crap if its put out by a "grand member".

So lets try and remember.....

Just because you like it, doesn't mean everyone else will.

Don't call attention to it unless you want people to pass judgement on it.

Use the search engine for answers.

Life isn't fair.

No matter how cool you think something is, someone else thinks it sucks, or has something cooler.

On 2008-01-10 16:16, Mai Tai wrote:
Just one person, Rob? Sadly, I think there are at least a couple of trolls on this site, whether they are intentionally or unintentionally acting that way.

Yes, Bill. True. Maybe I was being too kind.

Hi Janet,

Don't take all this as too much as negative. I posted a Tiki find of a mask a while back, only to be told it was of African design. I was more than happy to hear that being a newbie to the Tiki culture. I took that as more of a schooling of what to look for, and what to not.

Now, being happy with what you found is very important. OK, here's a geeky example. When I was building a "Lost in Space" robot replica, I had the experts telling you should do this, you should do that. As far as I was concerned, the average person wouldn't know the difference. All I would hear was "Oh, my gawd, it's the F*%#ken "Lost in Space" robot. Cool, man! Nuff said, they knew what it was, they didn't care the legs weren't quit like the original, it just looked good...

Just enjoy..

Rick

Hey Janet,
Welcome to TC. People here including me are still in shock from the new Las Vegas Trader Vic's opening and the San Francisco Trader Vic's closing like me. Add the fact that you are in Texas where one of the best Trader Vic's still is, more than a few of us are jealous.So don't take it too seriously.

Gator Rob and Mai Tai,
I think that if there are any Troll's here, it is all in fun. This is from Wikipedia

The most likely derivation of the word troll can be found in the phrase "trolling for newbies," popularized in the early 1990s in the Usenet group, alt.folklore.urban (AFU).[5][6] Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been done to death already, but new subscribers to the group would not "get it," and would thus respond. These types of trolls served as a Shibboleth to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution.[7][5] One of the most notorious AFU trollers, Snopes,[5] went on to create his eponymous urban folklore website.

By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. In such contexts, the noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling, rather than to the author.

"There is a Thread called "Tiki Finds". In theory, thats where this post should of went. No need to start a new thread. Based on history, its very doubtful "purism" would have became an issue in that thread. When you make it it's own thread and call attention to it... its gonna be debate time."

Fine, let's all just head over to "Tiki Finds" and play "tiki police" there, too.

Hey Janet, I posted that image because you had shown interest in a PM I sent you. I never said "only $1500". The information is there for you and everyone else. Probably should have sent in an e-mail or PM. Thanks for the compliments on it. Good luck on your ranch. It's great to have a place where you can stretch out a little.

Aloha Janet,

WHAT EVER YOU DO, DON'T MENTION JIMMY BUFFET!!!!!!

THEY WILL EAT YOU ALIVE!!!!!

Try coating them with Waterbase Varathane.
Availiable at Home Despot.

Hmmm...to me, it's not even a question of "purism" and "policing". Why is it so hard to accept that some of the items sold on e-bay as "Tiki" simply are not Tiki? And that if you think they are, you have been misinformed? And that when someone who has written the book that defined the style points that out, it is not "purism", it is just a fact like "this is not a Rembrandt".

BigBro, your very first comment in this thread was in response to someone saying the masks are small enough that they "might get lost" if posted on our entry gate. You said, "In this case, that wouldn't be so bad now, would it?"

And tell me how, exactly, that is "pointing out" that the masks were not official, authentic tiki?

I find this problem in other forums where I post. People develop "I'm the expert, so there" mentalities and then forget that courtesy should go hand-in-hand with clarification.

Saying, "Looks like you found a couple of fun masks for a tropical decor, but they aren't actually authentic tiki masks" is not only more polite, it is, in fact, much more informative and educational than your wisecrack that the masks would be better off hidden, or Sneaky's comment that "those are hideous".

If you want people to respect your expertise, try treating them respectfully.

GROG believe that was probably his attempt at humor, but Germans aren't very funny, so you'll have to excuse him.

On 2008-01-10 19:06, Ojaitimo wrote:
...For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time...

It doesn't?

On 2008-01-10 21:13, GROG wrote:
GROG believe that was probably his attempt at humor, but Germans aren't very funny...

They aren't? Then how do you explain Heino?

If you want people to respect your expertise, try treating them respectfully.

Likewise, if you create a topic titled, "Lookie what I got last night!" then you are implying that it's something that people in this community will WANT to look at. If the ensuing post is about a kind of object that is SPECIFICALLY called out in the list of "What Tiki Central Isn't", how much respect does that show?

But honestly the original post didn't bother me at all. The part I don't get is the ruffled feathers over the fact that anyone said they don't like it (in any way). If you just think about it from the other perspective (with "respect" for the stated interests of TC), doesn't it make sense that some members, or even a lot, would react negatively? It's not snobbery or policing, it's just consistency with a very simple and clear mission statement.

There seem to be a number of people who feel some kind of personal insult in the fact that this mission statement excludes some of the things that they're interested in. Ironically this sentiment seems to often be expressed in a barrage of "negativity", supposedly in the defense of victims of other negativity.

-Randy

Arrrgh, you had to pull out the secret German weapon...all resistance is futile in the face of...HEINO !!!

I admit my first comment was provocative, but I was quick to apologize for it two posts later, and began to explain myself in earnest to make up for that...and I thought I did an OK job continuing to lay out my reasoning in the next post down the page?

But that is neither here nor there, I hope my points will eventually be seen as more valid than mere purist snobbery, and now, everybody continue as they wish.

I think if everyone one started out their post with anything they think is "tiki" with the phrase:

"Don't Tase Me, Big Bro" we would all sleep better at night.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8l8c4dHOe4AbQxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE4aXEwdWp1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4MjNfOTIEbANXUzE-/SIG=120r00nfk/EXP=1200145660/**http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=AkMkGOpAF4s

This is a test, this is a test, designed to provoke an emotional response!

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5VUdIdHUgcAsAtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE4aXEwdWp1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4MjNfOTIEbANXUzE-/SIG=120l5a36a/EXP=1200145876/**http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=pk30a0qsVIk

Psycho Tiki D (I know I am and "Shoot Em Up")!

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2008-01-11 05:57 ]

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2008-01-11 05:59 ]

On a positive note Janet, 46 replies in 3 days and this is in Cool and Current. I haven't seen this much action since the Andy Loves Tiki thread.