The vanishing of a tropical nation

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/04/14/kiribati/index.html

This is a heart breaking story of how rising seas caused by global warming are threatening to doom the entire South Pacific nation of Kiribati. Over 100,000 people living on the 33-island republic between Hawaii and Australia may be forced to flee the islands in the coming decades as the seas rise and threaten to make the entire island chain uninhabitable. It's a good read, but like I said, just breaks your heart about what we're doing to our planet.

ditto Tuvalu

My wife used to have her birthday parties in that flooded hotel, when she was little.

On 2006-04-14 10:31, GatorRob wrote:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/04/14/kiribati/index.html

This is a heart breaking story of how rising seas caused by global warming are threatening to doom the entire South Pacific nation of Kiribati. Over 100,000 people living on the 33-island republic between Hawaii and Australia may be forced to flee the islands in the coming decades as the seas rise and threaten to make the entire island chain uninhabitable. It's a good read, but like I said, just breaks your heart about what we're doing to our planet.

I don't pretend to be a scientist, but I saw a feature on the science channel the other day about the last ice age on earth and it said that the earth goes back and forth between periods of cooling and warming. Maybe we're just still headed away from the last ice age and at some point we will be heading back, with a gradual cooling down. I wonder if that is what is really going on.

Until now the Carteret Islands off Papua New Guinea were expected to be the first populated ones to disappear, in about eight years' time, but Lohachara has beaten them to the dubious distinction.

Human cost of global warming: Rising seas will soon make 70,000 people homeless

Refugees from the vanished Lohachara island and the disappearing Ghoramara island have fled to Sagar, but this island has already lost 7,500 acres of land to the sea. In all, a dozen islands, home to 70,000 people, are in danger of being submerged by the rising seas.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/12/134791.php

If Al Gore is so smart, how come he hasn't claimed his $150,000????

http://www.junkscience.com/

I don't pretend to be a scientist, but I saw a feature on the science channel the other day about the last ice age on earth and it said that the earth goes back and forth between periods of cooling and warming. Maybe we're just still headed away from the last ice age and at some point we will be heading back, with a gradual cooling down. I wonder if that is what is really going on.

It's actually the other way round. There's usually a period of about 12,000 years between Ice Ages. The last Ice Age ended at around 10,000 BC.

By that logic, it should be getting cooler.

[ Edited by: Quiet Village Idiot 2007-12-14 01:41 ]

Agreed, the planet has been doing what it's doing again for millions of years. Keep your eyes open and be in awe.

On 2007-12-13 07:50, Jungle Trader wrote:
Agreed, the planet has been doing what it's doing again for millions of years. Keep your eyes open and be in awe.

To the contrary, the latest science on the issue indicates that global warming is undeniably human-induced:

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes that major advances in climate modelling and the collection and analysis of data now give scientists “very high confidence” (at least a 9 out of 10 chance of being correct) in their understanding of how human activities are causing the world to warm. This level of confidence is much greater than what could be achieved in 2001 when the IPCC issued its last major report.

Today’s report, the first of four volumes to be released this year by the IPCC, also confirms that the marked increase in atmospheric concentrations of gases carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4) and nitrous oxide (N2O) since 1750 is the result of human activities.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070202085036.htm

Sure it's human induced this time but it's still been going back and forth for millions of years. Next stop, Cosmic Asteroids.

Check this out
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071216/ts_alt_afp/usclimatewarmingdenial
Interesting, whether you agree or not.

It's freakin cold!

HB has frost in the am!

WTF???

DAMN, it looks like climate change is accelerating. You can effect change by planting more trees and buying a car that emits less or no carbon dioxide. Do it for you, your kids and their kids and all the animals that fly, swim, walk and run on this beautiful garden-of-eden-marble floating thru space and time. If you care, do something. 2045 does not look good. REAL.

I saw an infomercial just the other day on TV,
And they said I could buy a plane ticket (first class!) to heaven, in just three easy payments.
Is that true?

Cutdown on the peyote milkshakes would ya?

Reporting from Cartagena, Colombia - The effect of climate change is anything but hypothetical to retired Colombian naval officer German Alfonso. Just ask him about the time his neighborhood in this historic coastal city became an island.

For five years, Alfonso, 74, has watched tides rise higher and higher in the Boca Grande section of Cartagena. This month, tides briefly inundated the only mainland connection to his neighborhood, a converted sandbar where about 60 high-rise condo and hotel towers have been built in the last decade or so.

"Before, people thought it a normal phenomenon. But we're becoming more conscious that something is going on," Alfonso said. "If the sea keeps rising, traffic could just collapse."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-climate-cartagena22-2009nov22,0,7731005.story

The real difference between the scientific approach, and the approach of people who engage in partisanship is very simple: Scientist do not know the outcome of anything. They do their best to find out by testing, measuring, analyzing. If something happens which makes them alter their judgement, then they accept that.

A clear exampple is when you see scientists constructing a spaceship that is supposed to look for evidence of life on mars or somewhere else. They are wearing decontamination suits while doing this, because they don't want even the slightest chance that a microbe from here could somehow end up over there, screwing up the results. The scientific method uses logic, evidence and deduction to find out answers.

Contrast this to the non scientific method used by many people, especially on talk radio. They already have their answer, now they find out ways to justify their answer. This applies to the anti- evolution crowd and the anti-human-caused global warming crowd.

They already have their answer. They don't want evolution to be true because it would impact their version of religion. They don't want global warming to be human caused, because it impacts their love of factories and big business. Would not want to put ANY regulations on a business, right?

It's true, healthy skeptism on anything is a virtue, but these people go too far. When 9 out of 10 scientists are clearly stating that global warming is caused by humans, we should believe it. The other 10 percent (and I actually think it's more like 1%) are scientists where in the past it has been proven that some big business or political faction paid them good money to contradict what we all know to be true.

I believe what scientists say, because of the methodology of their research. it's the same research that built the computer I am typing on, that created the H1N1 vaccination, and the same science that will help track down someone who has killed a love one through DNA examination.

I can't understand, for the life of me, why people pick and choose what they are going to believe. They say that it is the scientist that has an agenda, but it is really the opposite. If a scientist has proven something, but then new information comes along which contradicts them, (after testing it using the scientific method), they alter their findings accordingly. Not so for the other segment of the population. They have their idea, and nothing under heavan or earth will change their minds! That's not scientific, it's just being stubborn.

Kailua, Hawaii has recently been featured on the news. Right now, our house is five blocks from the beach. When we retire and pay off the mortgage we'll have a great ocean view as we sit on our deck strumming our ukuleles.

And I will be able to sail a boat from anaheim to corona for a nice day at San Bernadino beach!

The nation is really narrow.
The Prime Minister is looking or begging other nations to accept its population.

http://media.adelaidenow.com.au/multimedia/2008/10/tuvalu/tuvalu-perthnow.html

If Tuvalu disappears, who will take its population of 10,000? Australia has rejected Tuvalu's plea.

In 2000, the Tuvaluan government appealed to both Australia and New Zealand to take in Tuvaluan residents if rising sea levels reached the point where evacuation would be essential7. The Australian government refused to implement a program to grant Tuvaluan environmental refugees residency in Australia. In response to Tuvalu's crisis, Immigration Minister Phillip Ruddock stated that accepting environmental refugees from Tuvalu would be "discriminatory"8.

With regard to Australia's response, Senior Tuvalu official, Mr Paani Laupepa expressed that while New Zealand has helped out their neighbours, "Australia on the other hand has slammed the door in our face"

As Tuvaluans have advocated, disastrous consequences of climate change will be avoided only if world leaders accept their global responsibility for implementing policies that will restrict greenhouse gas emissions.

As climate change is heating the atoll's shallow lagoon, the coral – the natural habitat of the reef fishes – is bleaching and dying. On top of this, sewage-water spills are increasingly causing algal blooms in the lagoon, killing the small reef fishes and thereby threatening the lives of larger fishes depending on them.

It is not only a problem of climate change, it's a huge problem of human pollution as well, says Tupalaga Poulasi, a research officer in the fisheries department.

The subsistence fishermen report that they have a harder time getting the daily fish for their families. According to interviews conducted by the fisheries department, the stories from the fishermen are mostly the same: they have to go further out in the lagoon than before (it is about 14km wide and 18km long), they have to fish longer to get the same amount of fish, and the fish they catch are smaller than they used to be.

Fish is not only a staple food; it is among the few traditional food items in which Tuvaluans are still self-sufficient.

But Funafuti is rapidly becoming urbanised, and overpopulated. About 5,000 people live there, half of the Tuvaluan population, on the meagre 1.4 square kilometres of land that surrounds the lagoon. Houses, buildings and associated infrastructure are replacing gardens, banana plants, papaya trees and other traditional crops such as pulaka, also known as swamp taro – a root vegetable grown in pits dug into the limestone atoll.

The remaining plants are exposed to rising seawater, salting the soils and ground water. Many have given up their garden production and depend on expensive, imported products: rice, flour, canned and tinned food.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/mar/04/tuvalu-sustainable-way-of-life-disappears

On the topic of Tuvalu, there was an interesting report from Michael Field on Radio New Zealand's National Programme this morning. It seems that the current drought on Tuvalu has less to do with global warming than with other factors. Drought is nothing new there (and is a regular occurrence on Pacific Islands), but it has been aggravated by the fact that the island is overpopulated compared to its traditional population levels. Also, in 2005, the government there decided to use the money it obtained from selling its rights to the ".tv" web code to seal the roads on the island. When you combine that with the sealed airstrip that the US forces built there in WWII in preparation for the battle of Tarawa, the result is that now, over 30% of Tuvalu's surface is tarsealed. Consequently, when it rains, a large percentage of the rainwater that used to become groundwater runs off roads and drains into the sea. And, according to Mr Field, paradoxically, the region is in a La Niña cycle at the moment, which actually means the sea level is lower than normal...

Not that I am trying to discredit climate change; just to say that there is a range of factors involved in Tuvalu's plight.

CN

"Australia on the other hand has slammed the door in our face" says Mr Paani Laupepa.

hmmm...perhaps Mr Laupepa should learn some fucking manners, says I.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/tuvalu-refugees-last-resort/story-e6frea83-1111117856091

What's the icon for rolling around wetting myself laughing???

Now now, komohana, why can't you just grin and bear your people's burden as the traditional whipping boy of the South Pacific island nations? :)

Hmm, this thread is getting disturbingly political, but as there are no Democrats or Republicans mentioned, we're probably OK....

CN

Toto, j'ai l'impression que nous ne sommes plus au Kansas !

[ Edited by: Club Nouméa 2011-10-08 03:03 ]

I've often thought about those self same things CN, and generally come to
the conclusion that the Japanese wouldn't have fucked around if they'd
made it here in the 1940s.

*typed CM instead of CN

[ Edited by: komohana 2011-10-08 05:47 ]

Kiribati is buying a chunk of Fiji..

{quote]

**Pacific nation plans to relocate to Fiji**

Posted by abby

Fearing that climate change could wipe out their entire Pacific archipelago, the leaders of Kiribati are considering an unusual backup plan: moving the populace to Fiji.

Kiribati President Anote Tong said on Friday that his Cabinet this week endorsed a plan to buy nearly 6,000 acres on Fiji's main island, Viti Levu. He said the fertile land, being sold by a church group for about $9.6 million, could provide an insurance policy for Kiribati's entire population of 103,000, though he hopes it will never be necessary for everyone to leave.

"We would hope not to put everyone on one piece of land, but if it became absolutely necessary, yes, we could do it," Tong said. "It wouldn't be for me, personally, but would apply more to a younger generation. For them, moving won't be a matter of choice. It's basically going to be a matter of survival."

Kiribati, which straddles the equator near the international date line, has found itself at the leading edge of the debate on climate change because many of its atolls rise just a few feet above sea level.

Tong said some villages have already moved and there have been increasing instances of sea water contaminating the island's underground fresh water, which remains vital for trees and crops. He said changing rainfall, tidal and storm patterns pose as least as much threat as ocean levels, which so far have risen only slightly.

Some scientists have estimated the current level of sea rise in the Pacific at about 2 millimeters (0.1 inches) per year. Many scientists expect that rate to accelerate due to climate change.

Fiji, home to about 850,000 people, is about 1,400 miles south of Kiribati. But just what people there think about potentially providing a home for thousands of their neighbors remains unclear. Tong said he's awaiting full parliamentary approval for the land purchase, which he expects in April, before discussing the plan formally with Fijian officials.

Sharon Smith-Johns, a spokeswoman for the Fijian government, said several agencies are studying Kiribati's plans and the government will release a formal statement next week.

Kiribati, which was known as the Gilbert Islands when it was a British colony, has been an independent nation since 1979.

Tong has been considering other unusual options to combat climate change, including shoring up some Kiribati islands with sea walls and even building a floating island. He said this week that the latter option would likely prove too expensive, but that he hopes reinforcing some islands will ensure that Kiribati continues to exist in some form even in a worst-case scenario.

"We're trying to secure the future of our people," he said. "The international community needs to be addressing this problem more."

Tong said he hopes that the Fiji land will represent just one of several options for relocating people. He pointed out that the land is three times larger than the atoll of Tarawa, currently home to more than half of Kiribati's population.

Although like much of the Pacific, Kiribati is poor — its annual GDP per person is just $1,600 — Tong said the country has plenty of foreign reserves to draw from for the land purchase. The money, he said, comes from phosphate mining on the archipelago in the 1970s.

The Maldives intend to move its population to Australia:
Unfortunately, on their own the Maldives can do nothing to combat climate change and prevent rises in sea level, and as a result they must face the reality that they will lose their land. The Maldivian President, Mohamed Nasheed, says that his people obviously want to remain on the islands, but “moving was an eventuality his government had to plan for.” In the Search for a new home for his countries 350,000 citizens he looked at India and Sri Lanka (due to cultural similarities) but has eventually settled on Australia. Nasheed set up a sovereign savings account, funded by revenue from tourism, with which he has been buying land on high ground because “he did not want his people living in tents for years, or decades, as refugees.”
http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Maldives-Buying-Land-In-Australia-As-Preparation-For-Mass-Migration.html

Mr Nasheed seems to be approaching things in a very upstanding and
responsible manner and he is not mistaken in thinking that there are
vast tracts of unsettled land here, but to relocate 350,000 souls,
I would estimate that he and his people should bring with them
something in the region of 10,000,000,000 US gallons of fresh water
for each year they intend to stay.

The Mai Kai, and all of Sourh Florida, will most likely suffer the same fate. Damn.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Fclimate%2F2013%2F06%2F23%2F2199031%2Fscientist-miami-as-we-know-it-today-is-doomed-its-not-a-question-of-if-its-a-question-of-when%2F%3Ffb_action_ids%3D10200250101119598%26fb_action_types%3Dog.likes%26fb_source%3Daggregation%26fb_aggregation_id%3D288381481237582&h=IAQHWfT2g&enc=AZM1b7lDV8cg9JnTVEkiktqoJTuaf0o4AHlpgPbCps-DsvCNhVJ4ZOdpCgyMDXW4caT78X5OgECAEUmJO1wgIa8g&s=1

It's so hard for people to understand that just because this seems like the distant future doesn't mean we're not already seeing effects from it.