Tiki Tag Topper

I did a search and could not find anything. I picked this up at an antique mall this week. Old car tag topper for Tiki Gardens. It is perfect and never used. I was just curious if others were out there. Once you get past the late 1940s cars these will not easily work on most cars because of the tags location on a bumper. So I doubt they sold a lot of these. Might be the reason it was never used. Scott

I like the images my mind conjures up for "pagan customs".:)
Nice find! Freddie

[ Edited by: HOUSE OF KU 2008-09-28 16:46 ]

Are you sure this is vintage? It looks very modern to me, those are typefaces commonly found in modern pieces generated on a computer:

• Notice that all of the "n"s in "Enchanting Land of Pagan Customs" are identical -- on a vintage item, those "n"s would have been hand-drawn, with variations.
• The word "GARDENS" looks to me like it is the Chicago font, the standard font on Macintosh computers.

Not saying it's impossible, and I sure hate to be the bearer of possibly bad news, but it just doesn't look like a vintage item to my eyes.

SWEEEEEET! That would look great on my Hot Rod! Display it proudly!

I am sure it is vintage. Unless someone shows me a pile of these and proves me wrong. The photo does not show details you can see with your eyes. First the paint is yellowed from years of age. On the back you can see where there was a price decal at one time. It is discolored in this area surrounding the once decal. The type of paint used and the way it lays on the metal and the amount of dust and dirt in it is all typical for old mass produced tin tag toppers. I have a bunch of ones for all different things and have collected them for years. These things were screen printed not hand painted. Just like anything else of that era they had type setters and lots of fonts to use. No difference than any matchbook or menu or book, magazine etc. I have seen plenty of old ads etc using that type. You could make something simular to this today. But unless you had a press and punch to produce the same feel of metal. Most would use a water jet today and it would not be the same. Paints are different today etc. This does not have that fake look of those repro gas signs etc. that you see at every swap meet. Plus if someone was repoping these things I doubt I would be the first one to find one. They would have been on ebay or listed here somewhere. If you search ebay for tag topper there are always a few vintage tin ones on there. You will see what I mean.

[ Edited by: tikicar 2008-09-28 20:00 ]

Absolutely vintage!

Here's a little blurb about Tiki Gardens, apparently it was around from 1962 until 1990:

http://www.lostparks.com/tiki.html

More photos and backstory here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tikigardens/page1.html

As long as you love it, that's really all that matters... I'm just interested in knowing more about the actual provenance of this item. I'm well aware that lettersetting has been available for quite some time, but the lettering used on this sign is modern:

• The words "Visit" and "Enchanting Land of Pagan Customs" are in a typeface called Freestyle Script. Freestyle Script was created by lettering designer Martin Ware in 1981.

• As mentioned before, the word "GARDENS" is in a typeface called Chicago. Chicago was created by Susan Kare in 1984 to be the system font for Apple.

Just as we can use cars in old photos to date them, typefaces can help us date an item. Since the typefaces used on this item did not exist before 1984, that's the earliest it could have been created.

While these typefaces existed at that date, they are today two of the most commonly installed fonts on computer systems. That leads me to consider that this is an item that was designed originally on a computer, and in that case I would surmise that it was produced much later than the mid-'80s. The yellowing you're seeing on it doesn't automatically say to me that it's old; it's no more a reliable indication of age than crazing on a tiki mug.

My .02, take it or leave it... again, I'm just seeking to understand the history of this item.

Typographic Archeology... Fascinating.
Good eye Humuhumu, this is a tough one. I do think that Chicago is an odd choice for someone doing a retro knock-off piece though. But your call of Freestyle looks pretty on.
Still, many current faces are based on vintage hand-tooled or hand-lettered forms. Is it possible that this piece uses some original faces which resemble the modern Freestyle and Chicago?
Does someone have some other Tiki Gardens ephemera that might have type examples to compare to?
Aloha,
:tiki:

I agree, Chicago is an unusual choice, that's what stood out initially and made it look odd to my eyes. The Freestyle Script font on computers today is based on the original Letraset design by Martin Ware, that original design was created in 1981. Chicago was created from scratch to be legible on computer screens, as far as I'm aware.

I'm quite puzzled over all this, myself. Maybe the new owners who took over the Tiki Gardens in 1988 made these as an attempt to re-promote the park, before giving up for good in 1990? The design overall looks more like a mid-'90s thing to me, rather than late-'80s, but who knows.

And I was under the impression that letter setting pre-dated computer fonts, and that many font designers "borrowed" letter styles from times past? There goes my theory....I know most 50's and 60's "kustom" license plate toppers were made of cast metal, and not stamped sheet metal. I'd say this could be anywhere from the 70's to the late 80s since it close in 1990. There would be no reason to say "visit Tiki Gardens" post-1990, and I would find it silly for someone to print this after that date of the Gardens closing, as this is/was a fairly pricey process.

It is still a cool find, and wish I had one!

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2008-09-30 00:10 ]

On 2008-09-29 23:57, Tom Slick wrote:
And I was under the impression that letter setting pre-dated computer fonts, and that many font designers "borrowed" letter styles from times past?

That's true, but every typeface has a different story. Some were created with a specific purpose in mind (e.g., legibility in a telephone directory, or on highway signs, or in the case of Chicago, on computer screens), some were inspired by hand lettering, and some were original designs.

I had the name of Freestyle Script's designer wrong, it's not Martin Ware it's Martin Wait. I sent him an email to ask him to clarify exactly when his typeface was created, and what it was based on, here's what he responded:

Hello Michelle

Freestyle Script was created in 1981.
The style is my design and it had no other type influences.
I don't use old typefaces for any of the fonts I design

I hope this helps you.

Kind Regards

Martin Wait

Fun Fact: Martin Wait designed the logo for Tetley's Tea!

On 2008-09-29 23:57, Tom Slick wrote:
There would be no reason to say "visit Tiki Gardens" post-1990, and I would find it silly for someone to print this after that date of the Gardens closing, as this is/was a fairly pricey process.

I agree in principle, but people reproduce all sorts of odd things. You can get a Tiki Bob's t-shirt today, and Tiki Farm does a brisk trade in reproduction mugs. After all, Tiki Gardens has been closed for nearly two decades now, and there's clearly demand for this license topper now! My guess still stands that it was either made between '88 and '90 in the last-gasp days of Tiki Gardens, or it was made in the past few years to target the tiki and hot rod collectibles markets.

I posted this on here to find out more information and to see if there are any other tiki tag toppers out there. Not to get on a debate about new or old or computer type. I love it either way. I bought it right and it will look sweet on my roadster when it is ever done. I found one reference to it here on tiki central. There was one sold on ebay last year. Might have been this one? It is under Tiki Gardens, Indian Rocks Beach/Indian Shores, FL (restaurant) I restore cars for a living so I know a thing or two about paint. It is old paint. The discoloration takes years and a lot of them. The discoloration on the back where a decal once was again takes years as it has discolored the paint like a stain on cloth. It was either a price decal or maybe an original makers foil decal. This is not the same as crazing a mug to look old. Todays paints are not the same as years ago. They are not the same as even a year ago in most cases. Go buy a can of Krylon spray paint and it is now different than a few months ago. Just like how a new carving looks to a old carving. Some things just take time to create the look and no fake way can make it look the same. If you look in the book of tiki there is a matchbook on page 51 for Mecca Bar. The type is the same as gardens on the topper just stretched out. My brother happens to be visiting me right now. He is a commercial artist and has been since before computers were used for art or type setting etc. You know when there actually were real artists. Here is his explanation on how it was done without computers.
Hello; My take on the tag topper is that it looks original. I have been doing commercial art for over 35 years and it doesnt have to be done on a computer to have uniform shaped letters. A good sign painter can make his hand painted letters shaped the same time after time to the point you can overlay them with little or no difference. When I started most fonts were all either hand lettered or set in lead type for printing. As a rule I draw my original art at least twice as big as the final print size so that any flaws are almost invisible in the final print form. Even if that tag topper was hand cut art the original mechanical art would have probably been close to 18" to 24" long. At that scale it would be easy to make the type near perfect. And there is no reason that it had to be hand cut art since any decent size 1950's art house would have had movable typeseting machines and large format graphics cameras to shoot film positives for screen production. While I agree with the other poster that the fonts used are similar to fonts he says were created in the 1980s... most modern fonts are some derivitive of older commercial or hand lettered fonts. It took only a few minutes searching to find a font nearly identical to that used on this tag topper, the only difference was that it was a condensed version. So many font designers create similar or nearly identical fonts simply to avoide royalties. On a daily basis I use a commercial computer typesetter that has at least 3 phonebook size type books all containing similar versions of the same type but with different names. If you go on line there are endless choices of free or for sale fonts also. When you spec a type for a job the art programs automatically brings up a defult window asking you if it is ok to substitute a similar font if you have not actually loaded that font with your job file. Since I do not know the actual production date of this tag topper I can not say that the other poster is wrong with his assesment of the type fonts or age. But as someone that works in this industry I know that it is hard to know the date of creation for something like a font style because there is too much inspiration from or copying of previous work. Just last night on the tv show "Chuck" I noticed that the credits were set in a font to mimic the old "Dymo" lable maker machines. Now I have 30+ year old dymo lables on my file cabinets and I know I handlettered a piece of art in the 1980s to simulate this font. By the logic of the previous poster, my file cabinet can't be real because that "chuck" font was only designed in the last 10 years. I am not looking for a debate, just as the previous poster said... putting in my $.02

No worries, we're both learning a lot here, and that's what it's all about!

I agree that many typefaces based on earlier designs; it's just that these two particular typefaces have unambiguous histories with clear origin, and their histories begin in 1981 and 1984.

Tom Slick: I did want to reply to you as well. Yes the custom tag toppers and dragger tags like Custom & Hot Rod clubs use are usually cast. Obrien truckers still makes these today. They also repro the cast tag toppers from Miami Beach, Hollywood etc. Tin tag toppers were the cheap alternative. They were used by every new car dealer back in the day before metal emblems and decals were used on the back of your car. Also by resorts, resturants etc. Anyone who wanted to advertise would get them made. They really gave way to the bumper sticker. Bumper stickers were so cheap to buy and sell or give away and they fit any car as where tag toppers were fitting less and less new cars. I go to a lot of Antique and hot rod shows as well as swap meets. I have yet to see anyone reproducing a tin tag topper. There are still plenty of cool unused originals around at a cheap price.

What makes Tiki Central more than just a site for casual fans of tiki retail stuff, is the research members contribute to many of these threads. I love these discussions!

Die hard Hot Rod car guy here! Vintage!

I bought some items from obrien, and thats why I had brought that up. So, does anyone know for sure if the cheaper tin toppers were made pre-60's? I have seen the AAA and the felix' cat toppers...Even the shriner ones, but they all seem to have been die cast made. In any case, it is definately a cool piece, and congrats on the find! I also "had" a link to a website that had ALOT of information on tiki gardens, and even had quite a few pictures, postcards and collectibles. Unfortunately, my explorer crashed and I had lost all of my url bookmarks, including my complete desktop. Anyhow, someone here should know about it. It was not a url with tiki gardens in it. I believe it was someones family name, or an unrelated business name, I can't recall which, sorry.
If you should ever cross paths with another, let me know...I'd be interested in acquiring one for my mild kustom 65 KonTikiNental™© ...:P

Think this is the site you're referring to: http://home.earthlink.net/~tikigardens/page1.html

Found this as well: http://www.briandjones.net/webfolio.shtml
Could this be something made for this gift store?

Here is the registered owner.....Does anyone know if hes a TC'er?
Administrative Contact :
YOUHN, chris **
[email protected]
**** C.R. 753 S.
webster, FL 33597
US
Phone: 352-569-****

Tom: Just look on ebay under tag topper or license plate topper. There are always some old tin toppers on there in all kinds of styles and sayings. I saw the web page site as well when searching. It could have been made for that. Even if this thing was made in the 80's it is still old but I just do not see why it was. First it would not fit on newer cars. Second if this was made as a repro that means there was or is a company still making them. I have been going to the Carlisle (starts today) and Fall Hershey AACA swap meets since the 1970s. NSRA events as long. I am a state director for the Kustom Kemps of America since the late 80s. Being in the car business we get catalogs for everything dealer related. I have never seen anyone reproducing these tin toppers anywhere. There is no troble finding these at swap meets in all kinds of condition. I just sold a 53 Kaiser a few years ago. I had two different ones for my Local dealer Logan Motors that went out of Business in 1955. One was tin and the other was yellow plastic. These are very rare in plastic. Great discussion guys. Scott

TikiGardener is/was a member that was a wealth if info on the tiki gardens. Maybe they can help?

here's another website dedicated to the tiki gardens (run by tikigardener, I think):

http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com

edit an upon closer inspection my web addressed is the fancy start page for the same web address Murph posted....sorry.

Polynesiac - putting the "F" back in "ART"

[ Edited by: Polynesiac 2008-10-01 18:17 ]

Well I spent most of the week at the Carlisle car swap meet and show. I talked to several guys who specialize in automobilia stuff and some big dollar items. Every guy I showed it to wanted to buy it. They all said it was real from their experience and they have never seen anyone repro a tin topper except for one that was hand painted for someone special. They said there were a few companies still making them into the 60's. They said you could order very small amounts as low as 50 in most cases. Their thoughts are it was either bought and not used because it would not fit the car it was bought for, because it was a top mount. There were bottom mounts also and sometimes when they orderd they got both ways in the later years and usually the top mounts were still left unsold. Also it could have been a lunch box take home piece from a worker who collected them or just liked it. They said finding unused toppers is not as uncommon as you would think. None of them had ever seen one of Tiki Gardens before. Here are a few pics. You can see the table full of repo cast pieces and some real toppers for sale.

Nice detective work, but the car guys already knew it was vintage. Now, let's talk about how jealous I am that you went to carlisle. Did ya buy anything?

Carlisle is not what it used to be. I has really gone down hill in the last few years. Ebay has hurt all swap meets but Carlisle has hurt itself by having too many events and letting too many tool, socks, spices, baskets etc. dealers in for too long. They are trying to fix it but the damage has been done. There were hundreds of empty spaces in the flea market as well as the car corral. I will be at Hershey starting Wed. This event is still very good but it too has gotten smaller. Internet and Hershey park adding more rides has made it smaller than it once was. But Hershey keeps all car corral cars at 25+ years old and no new parts in the swap meet other than restoration pieces. There is always cool stuff to see there. I did not buy anything really cool at Carlisle. Hopefully do better this week.

Tiki Licence Plate Frame

Me likey!