New Tiki Mag piece by Duke Carter

Anyone read the new "Duke's Dusty Shelf" segment entitled "Tiki....or not Tiki?" in the new Tiki Mag yet ?

I thought it was really insightful. Being that this is a big topic of discussion in here, I'm glad he addressed this sometimes very controversial issue.

Yes. I read it.

He makes a really good point, and strangely this is something that Kirby pointed out to me recently. Isn't it a little weird to have a house filled with nothing but tikis?

I always thought that my "If there's no tiki on it, then it's not coming in the house" philosophy would keep my collection focused. But in reality, it's a little bit "overwhelming" as Duke suggested. (I don't think it goes the way of being boring though.)

When I look around my house, almost every room is filled with nothing but tikis. But when I think about my favorite walls, many of them are the ones that contain other elements, and the wall of tiki is broken up. I especially love my breakfast nook which is filled with vintage BBQ trays.

That certainly is a good point, Kate, but the brunt of the article is wasting a lot of ink based on the completely wrong premise that I and others (who are these others?, I seem to be the only one who is vocal about this, really) would not allow anything other than Tiki as decor in Tiki bars!....!!!?

I am surprised Duke falls prey to this confusion, too, and spends a double page discussing it from that mistaken viewpoint (in the new EXCELLENT issue of Tiki Magazine, I might ad...and Jim, pencil me in for the new Tikiyaki mug, that's a killer!), writing as if I or anybody out there would want to EXCLUDE all sorts of items from the classic Tiki environment.

I will try to AGAIN make my very simple point with the very example at hand. Here are three photos from Dukes article which are not Tikis, but which he shows as examples of items that belong into a Tiki Bar, which I absolutely agree with:

A Papua New Guinea drum mug

a Hula Girl nodder

a coconut mug

All very nice examples of Polynesian pop, and fitting acoutrements in any Tiki bar.
Does anybody seriously think I (or "others") would want to exclude Hula girls, coconuts, drums and all kinds of South Seas and nautical decor from the Tiki esthetic?

Here is what I DO have a problem with:

a Tiki mug

a Tiki nodder

a Tiki mug

...now some will say "but who in their right mind mind would say that!", but it happens all the time. Much more "out there", than here on TC. It is understandable, it may be inevitable, but it is in no way acceptable to me as the person who has defined the genre, and in a community that specializes in collecting and promoting it.

it's just a simple case of semantics....calling a hula wiggler a tiki wiggler is just being lazy and i see no harm in it...it's all part of the same genre' as far as i am concerned...we all know what someone is talking about when they say hula wiggler or tiki wiggler...i like to be more concerned with the broader spectrum of what polynesian pop means today, 2009 as opposed to what things use to mean or should mean...the age of tiki is gone...this is the new age of neo polynesian..this is what 21st century poly pop looks like....an all encompassing phenomenon of all things tropical be they tiki, hula, nautical, what have you....

.i haven't even read dukes article yet...and by god, i think i may be defending him here..(who would have thought!!??)

none the less, i do see your point sven and i'm not saying it's not valid..i personally just don't think it applies anymore...at least not to me...the vibe of tiki/poly pop is what is important to me...not classifications or divisivness...

" In a perfect world...Elvis would still be alive ....and all the elvis impersonators would be dead!!"

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2009-04-25 08:52 ]

This has always reminded me of when I use to deal in vintage/MCM furniture and vintage barware. 10 years ago the buzzword was "Eames". Everything was Eames. Everything was attributed to Eames. Eames Egg Chair, Eames painting, Eames light fixture, Eames rug, etc. After a few gallery shows showing the Eames' work and a few books, Eames become the generic buzzword (especially early, on Ebay) that everyone used. So basically their popularity amongst the few (well few compared to society at large), trickled down to the rest of society, "Eames" became a generic term. Their fantastic designs popularity amongst the people "in the know" and its subsequent trickle-down was the cause of their name being attributed to every MCM design out there. And even though their name is used on many fantastic designs they had nothing to do with, by doing so, people sometimes lose track of the fantastic designs they were involved in creating.

Tiki has gone thru the same thing. Ever since a few select gallery shows in the 90's and a certain someone's (ahem) book came out, tiki has now become the all encompassing term used to describe any number of loosely related styles and objects. The word has become watered down from it's true meaning, yet has become more powerful than ever.

The less of itself it is, the more it becomes.

..okay..got my magazine today and read the article....basically duke's whole spin on tiki or not tiki echoes my own perspective on it....i stand by my original post.

Good. Then maybe you can tell me WHO these people are that don't want to admit Hula girls, coconut mugs, and authentic Polynesian carvings as decor in a Tiki Bar! Does anyone here know any????

I used to be rather strict on the definition of Tiki but now my definitions are fairly simple:

tiki = a Polynesian idol

Tiki = Polynesian pop style which includes tikis

These days I consider a Tiki mug a mug which is appropriate for a Polynesian pop culture environ. A tiki mug would be a mug with a representation of a tiki on it.

I think hula girls, coconuts, leis, outriggers, exotic flora print fabrics, et cetera are all Tiki.* But they're definitely not tikis.

As always with the English language it ultimately doesn't matter one bit what purists or defenders-of-the-word have to say on the matter. The masses will decide.

In the face of what we determine to be inappropriate usage we can scream and shout objections or we can attempt to enlighten and broaden views. Personally I'd rather leave the masses to their own paths and try to help enlighten those who seek enlightenment. Possibly by lighting a Tiki torch for them.

*And yet I wouldn't necessarily consider a Hawaiian bar to be Tiki. It would depend on the particular bar. Did your head just explode?

I know who these people are. They are the ones who think parrots, monkeys and neon Corona Signs make a "tiki bar".

Woofmut, the masses already have decided. And I am letting them merrily go their way. But here on Tiki CENTRAL, I am surprised to find (seemingly like-minded) veterans of Tiki voicing support for the broad generalization of the term, which will be the basic result of not wanting to bother to differentiate. That way, any Hawaiian Bar WILL be called a Tiki Bar here.

"I think hula girls, coconuts, leis, outriggers, exotic flora print fabrics, et cetera are all Tiki."

In and of themselves, they are not. They are Polynesian pop. Which IS part and parcel of "Tiki". Ve-ry simple, no?
And I do not expect to have this understood by the average Party Store customer. But by the fans of my books, and members of Tiki Central, I do.

"As always with the English language it ultimately doesn't matter one bit what purists or defenders-of-the-word have to say on the matter"

Why am I a purist if I am merely following a simple logic? And you, pal, have just superseded any "defenders-of-the-word by becoming a defender of the LETTER !!! :D A Tiki mug is different from a tiki mug !!? I would never dream to go there, explain that one to the drunken Oasis partyer!

But all this has been re-hashed here many times, my initial post addressed the mistaken premise that drew the conclusion that in order to keep Tiki TIKI, none of the above items could be part of it. And I was asking WHO here had ever suggested such a thing?

I'm tellin ya, it's just like my previous comments about "Eames"... the more popular something becomes, the more warped, stretched, twisted, watered down, flip-flopped, misunderstood it becomes.

It's like music. To some people, rock-n-roll is Elvis. To others (like the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame), it encompasses rock, jazz, hip hop, folk, etc. And then there are others who don't even think it has anything to do with music anymore. To them, rock-n-roll is "an attitude".

Tiki is starting to parallel this. Some people think of tiki as "an attitude" and not an object at all.

It's all your fault Sven! You piloted this rocket of tiki popularity. But the higher the popularity goes, the more faded and wide rocket trail becomes. Hopefully some of us will continue to ride up front and not get lost in the dust!

"And I was asking WHO here had ever suggested such a thing?" -bigbrotiki-

I think confusion comes from the general internet disinterest in reading text. People like short comments, lots of pictures, and video. Lengthy, well reasoned arguments are generally greeted with the unvoiced thought "That's a lot of words."

Faced with "a lot of words" a good number of those who actually read a lengthy post may just skim it. The quick glance at some "Keep tiki tiki!" type posts might yield the interpretation of your opinions as "If it doesn't have a tiki it's not tiki."

Believe it or not over the past few years I often was a Sven apologist of sorts, explaining to people who misread or misquoted your arguments what you most likely meant or actually said. But I can't recall a time when anyone I spoke with said "Oh, I see what he meant." Instead they just held onto their view of your opinions.

I rarely bother setting the record straight any more but that's largely because there's little need for it. A lot of people just aren't interested in the intellectual arguments about...Well, anything.

Thanks woofter, that is a fine explanation of the Babylonian mis-communication and mis-conceptions of today's internet world. I feel less misunderstood because I now know why I am. :)

Oooo. I just can resist dipping a toe into the noose...

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=13080&forum=1&vpost=295747

and --

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=26636&forum=1&7

Tee-hee...

And mahalo to you, Duke, for linking to us for the last half-decade. We may not be "classic" tiki, but we're some kine' tiki, and we're still here. And you can still visit for free. :D

I will stand up and say that when I first came to Tiki Central I was of the uneducated masses that figured "Tiki was Tiki" and included everything from the "Exoctia timeline Tiki to todays Buffett Tiki mindset.

I now know the difference!!!! now if I could just get the other half to understand it (she likes the Party Shop neon Tiki stuff).

Thanks Bigbrotiki!!!!

And for the record, I thank Big Bro Tiki too. (and I've bought enough of his books to back up the sincerity of that. The first one well before I'd ever met him.)

Sven has defined, strictly, what, and when, "Tiki was” as a period pop phenomenon. And he focuses the guiding light on new works that pay homage to a bygone era, and remain true to the definition of that time. And he will forever be legendary for it.

I respectfully opine, however, that what was happening then, isn't the same as what's happening now; and that, even then, the term "tiki" was always used by its most enthusiastic and unconsciously antic celebrants in a whimsically flexible way which has always mixed Polynesian, Caribbean, African and modern American influences (under the Poly-Pop palapa). “Tiki” is not anthropology.

However, the more one studies Sven's books and explores all the terrific threads here on TC, the more one becomes familiar with Sven's definition of "classic Tiki", and that's truly wonderful knowledge to gain, and will always be a great and valuable resource for everyone, old and new, who seeks to understand the primal root of the lunacy we’re in the grip of. Picasso studied the masters before he went mad.

Like a lot of the Ohana here, I was “tiki” before tiki became cool again, in a personal way that evolved directly from my own early memories of the time before “Tiki” went into decline. Those whom the Gods smack on the head don’t need to pass any tests, or toe anybody else’s line. For the chosen, “Tiki” may have declined for a time, but it never died-out. We go on in our own way.

Mahalo, BBT, for all the outstanding and painstaking research you’ve shared, and for the scholarly underpinnings you’ve brought to the passion we all feel around here.

(Hav'ta split now; got a margarita in the blender, the parrot's squawking for attention, the Baxter's a little too low on the hi-fi, and I'm anxious to check out the "Blue Hawaii" dvd that just got Netflixed in, after I cruise through Bob's Toluca Lake to see who's brought the muscle tonight. Should I wear the fez? And will it clash with the leopard-skin? Oooo, I hope so. C'mon by and I'll show you what's in the online development pipeline -- I’ll leave the lava lamp on in the window for ya. Sorry, sorry..., just couldn’t resist... S :wink: K )

The Crazed Mugs define our music as "Tiki Music" realizing that our songs are not about tikis. We have a bunch. We dig 'em. We reference them sometimes.

But we fully understand that we are operating within the "Tiki as an iconic reference point" sub-genre of this site and beg everyone's indulgence while we beat down your ears.

We fully agree with everyone, which is why we're going into politics when our musical careers run their course.

My first act as mayorpresidentkingemperor will be to assign someone to grow ample supplies of fresh mint for all.

"We fully agree with everyone..."

Damn, wish I'd thought of that.

"My first act as mayorpresidentkingemperor will be to assign someone to grow ample supplies of fresh mint for all."

For Mojitos or Mai Tais?

Oops! There goes your paradise.

"For Mojitos or Mai Tais? "

Yes.

(See, I'll make a great leader.)