Trying not to be a cocktail snob

Sometimes I think we’re entering a new cocktail era with new bars opening up serving classic cocktails, new bartender guides emphasizing lost cocktail recipes, and old liqueurs being made once again.
And then I get smacked back into reality that we’ve still a long way to go.

Case in point: Some friends and I recently went to a bar called Prohibition in downtown San Diego. It’s one of those “speakeasy” type places in a basement of an old building with no sign, no advertising, and you have to go on their web site to make a reservation to get in. On the bar’s web site they include information about “handcrafted cocktails” and “old school service.” So you would think that anyone who’s gone to the trouble of getting into this place would want to enjoy the cocktail atmosphere the place provides.

However, on this recent visit here are a couple of things I overheard from customers at the bar:

-Man to bartender: “Can I get a Captain and Coke”
-Bartender: “Um, we don’t have Captain Morgan. We do have Kraken, it’s another type of spiced rum. Or we have a drink menu here with our house cocktails.”
-Man: “Uh, naw. I’ll have the rum and Coke with that rum you said before.”

-Another guy at bar seeing girl enter: “Hey, you made it!”
-Girl: “Yeah, how are you?”
-Guy: “Good. Can I get you a drink?”
-Girl: “Sure.”
-Guy: “What would you like?”
-Girl: “Um, I’m thinking a vodka and Red Bull, like a Grey Goose and Red Bull.”
-Guy: “Uh, OK, um I’m not sure they even have Red Bull here.”

It all made me realize that it’s a tough battle against advertising.

amen.

Part of the problem specific to your example is the Speakeasy format is, for some at least, about being there and not the drinks.

A Speakeasy like the kind you described is the ultimate kind of velvet rope, only those cool or current or whatever enough know about it so there is some exclusivity to it that makes them feel important.

Doesn't make it any less annoying for the bartenders, or any less entertaining for you. The real test will be can they teach their audience even a little bit of what the cocktail culture was and could be again? Or will they succumb to the crowds and build a Martini menu with 500 drinks that are served in a martini glass.

It's really annoying when I start muddling a Mojito for a customer, and everyone starts dancing around the bar.

Mainstream drinkers are a lot like mainstream restaurant-goers; the vast majority are going to be a lot more comfortable with the fare at Applebees than that of a 3 Michelin Star restaurant. In other words, no matter how good your cocktails are, they will sadly never connect with most people. And bars offer some other reason to be there (the music, the atmosphere, the scene, the opposite sex) that will always transcend whatever kind of drinking experience they offer. That's why you see people order Bud Light at the Mai Kai; you just have to shrug it off.

On my recent trips to NYC, which is ground zero for the cocktail revival (no pun intended), I've actually been pretty impressed with the cocktail savvy of the customers. I think the city has become very inundated with quality mixology; almost to the point that if anything, there's a hipster backlash against the speakeasies. New bars are ditching the mustachioed- and vested- bartender formula and going back to basics while keeping the quality drinks intact. The same process will happen in other cities that aren't as far along the curve.

Some things separate the average from the extraordinary. Good taste is one.

I'm curious to know if there were any menus of the bar's "specialty drinks". I find that most of my friends have really no clue what to order, and I've even been in situations where you're just really not sure if the bartender is going to know what I'm ordering, or if they're going to have the correct ingredients.

I really think it's important for bars to have menus (preferably with prices), giving me a sample of some of the drinks they have that are in stock and the bartenders know how to make.

I've only been to one speakeasy themed bar, in Seattle. Fantastic place and quality drinks. But to the point, the people there seemed to be genuinely into the place and its classic cocktail culture. Were all of them well informed cocktail-wise? No. But the bartender was doing his best to educate them with his knowledge and stories. Fortunately, nobody spoiled it with "what do you mean you don't have vodka and Red Bull?" Maybe we caught them on a good night, I don't know. How long has the San Diego place been open? It may take some time for their patrons to come up to speed on what they're all about. Hopefully, they will build up a loyal and cocktail-educated clientele over time.

Now, to bring this back to Tiki somehow... I'm sure we'd all love for the Mai-Kai to not even serve Bud Light at all, but there is that "we have to survive" factor. Some day Martin may tire of his beloved (and spectacular) Smuggler's Cove and seek new challenges. And perhaps the Mai-Kai at that time will be seeking a bar manager, to follow in the hallowed footsteps of Mariano Licudine, directly descended from the cocktail genius of Don the Beachcomber himself. And, alas, there shall be no more Bud Light served at the venerable Mai-Kai. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

On 2010-04-28 10:52, Chip and Andy wrote:
Part of the problem specific to your example is the Speakeasy format is, for some at least, about being there and not the drinks.

A Speakeasy like the kind you described is the ultimate kind of velvet rope, only those cool or current or whatever enough know about it so there is some exclusivity to it that makes them feel important.

Doesn't make it any less annoying for the bartenders, or any less entertaining for you. The real test will be can they teach their audience even a little bit of what the cocktail culture was and could be again? Or will they succumb to the crowds and build a Martini menu with 500 drinks that are served in a martini glass.

flipping well said. i just had a semi rant in bilge over the tragiclly hip. i rarely do that. well said indeed.

Once went to a tiki event at a place that had the BEST Mai tai!
You could say they invented the drink.
The ones I had were not good.
Maybe it was the large crowd, bad pour twice.
So I went to Bud.
OH HECK! What are you drinking a Bud HERE for!
No one else would dare say the the King is naked.
Most of us can make a Mai Tai way better than you can get at most bars.
So if it's bad it's bad thats all.
That snob thing has many sides.

The Mai Kai has always blown me away with their drinks.
Top notch!

And skip's point needs to be emphasized here. The Mai-Kai hands you a drink menu FIRST. That sends the message that you should order off it. In a restaurant, you don't walk in and say "I'll have X or Y" without looking at the menu, unless you already know it. But we are all now accustomed to going to a bar and asking for what we know.

So, these places need to be putting their menu in peoples hands and making suggestions and pushing people in the right direction first. And then, if people want a hi-ball, they can make it for them.

I don't see anything wrong with identifying as a cocktail snob.
If you don't, this is what you will get:

I'm with Swanky on the bar menus. I often use the menu to determine if the bar knows their head from their elbow, so to speak. For example, a local bar has published this drink menu:

http://www.floridakeyspianobar.com/menus.html

You can see they have three sections of "Martinis" followed by a section of "Cocktails". What exactly differentiates the last group of drinks from the first three is beyond me, especially since most of the "martinis" don't contain any vermouth, which defines a martini in the first place.

You'll notice that they make some of their drinks with "Myers's" rum! And we once had a place called "Martinis Bar". I think they meant "Martini's Bar". Don't even get me started on possessives!

And back to vermouth, I've been in "fancy""martini" bars, that not only mislabel all cocktails as martinis, but didn't have any vermouth at all! One "martini" place in downtown Orlando had three bars in the place, none of which had vermouth. It's just awesome to go into "martini" bar and have the bartender not be able to make you a martini.

And a manhattan is made with rye whisky. Don't tell me you have rye whisky when you don't.

And just because the liquor distributor gives it to you, it doesn't mean that you actually have to hang it up. This is especially true of Tex-Mex restaurants, although I've been in a "martini" bar with a huge Bud Light mirror over the bar. Not good.

And as for customers, you have to use the iron hand in a velvet glove. We used to have a brew pub that stocked over 100 different types of beers. The head bartender used to make a big production every time somebody ordered a Bud or some other kind of swill. He would serve it, but he would give them hell about it. People would start drinking better beer just to keep out of his sights. I loved it, but I'm not sure if this is for everyone.

We have another beer place that carries over 200 types of beer. Their beer menu contains all kind of information about each kind of beer and what it tastes like. If you notice what they have for Bud and Coors: "We carry it." Love that.

http://www.brokenbarreltavern.com/About_Us/The_Beer.aspx

The best advice I heard was to give the customer what they want and allow the bartender to suggest something better for their second drink, on the house or at a reduced rate.

Don't apologize for being a cocktail snob. They only way things are going to get any better is for people to push for quality.

On 2010-04-29 10:35, TikiHardBop wrote:
You'll notice that they make some of their drinks with "Myers's" rum!

Hi HardBop - not to be picky, but actually Myers's is the official name as it appears on a bottle (take a look at a bottle - it's hard to believe, but there it is). So although that may be an error, it'd be an error with a LONG history from the maker, not that particular bar menu.

Personally, I like to call it Myers's's.

-Randy

Ever since InBev bought Anheuser-Busch I've enjoyed making fun of friends ordering Bud for drinking a foo-foo Belgian beer.

On 2010-04-29 10:35, TikiHardBop wrote:
It's just awesome to go into "martini" bar and have the bartender not be able to make you a martini.

That line just made my night! And don't even think of ordering a Manhattan. "Manhattan? ...this is Vancouver. Would you like something to drink?"
No apologies here.

Aquari, I stand corrected. I never noticed that before. That's really wild!!!

On 2010-04-29 12:45, aquarj wrote:

On 2010-04-29 10:35, TikiHardBop wrote:
You'll notice that they make some of their drinks with "Myers's" rum!

Hi HardBop - not to be picky, but actually Myers's is the official name as it appears on a bottle (take a look at a bottle - it's hard to believe, but there it is). So although that may be an error, it'd be an error with a LONG history from the maker, not that particular bar menu.

Personally, I like to call it Myers's's.

-Randy

I don't know about now (I'd have to check), but there was a time when a possessive ending in " s " had the personally discretionary option of being written " s' " or " s's ", both with the exact same pronunciation. There are lots of annoying options in the language (like "preventative" vs "preventive")"Preventive" has always been preferred as has " s' ", so most people are more comforatble writing it " Myers' " than " Myers's ", but both are correct unless they've changed they rules again.

The question is, when did we start this trend? When did we realized some of us knew more than the bartenders?

My wife hates it when I ask the bartender how they build their Mai Tais and then ask them to leave out the oj. sheeez. I just want a good drink :)

I have different thoughts on this subject. I do welcome the new reawakening of quality cocktails, but in some ways I'm a little sick of it. Not because I pine for the days of bottom shelf booze, freehand pours and commercial mixers - but (and this is perhaps it is because I live in Manhattan) probably because I'm tired of the snobbiness of it all. I'm on a lot of food/drink newsletters and there is a lot of new things opening (and closing) in New York every day, so every week I'm reading about a new bar armed with bartenders (and they won't call them bartenders, they are all "mixologists" or "bar chefs" or "alchemists" or whatever) with some kind of work pedigree that goes back to Sasha Petraske/Milk and Honey, and everyone has mustaches and suspenders or pharmacist coats, and you have to jump through some kind of hoop to get inside because it's a "speakeasy" of some sort. There will always be some gimmick to it. Yet it's still crowded as heck on a Tuesday night. Of course when you get inside drinks are no less than $15.

The funny thing is I look at the menu, and I realize I have about 75% of every named liquor in the ingredients of all the cocktails. So it's difficult to justify going out for a drink, when I can get sloshed at home for cheaper.

I just wish for a neighborhood bar that I can go and pay $7 for a drink, the bartender remembers you, and there isn't any pretense. It's not empty and it's not a dive, but just not full of loud douchebags. Oh wait, there WAS a place like that in NYC, it was Elettaria (during happy hour).

I just wish for a neighborhood bar that I can go and pay $7 for a drink, the bartender remembers you, and there isn't any pretense.

Come to California...It's called Don the Beachcomber. And you won't have to pay $7 a drink...you can get them as cheap as $4 (during happy hour at least) :wink:

I totally understand both sides of the argument with this one, though. I think we all want an awesome place, and when we find it, we want to tell everyone how great it is. By the time the hipsters catch on...total bust. What can you do.

On 2010-05-04 21:07, kahalakruzer wrote:

Come to California...It's called Don the Beachcomber. And you won't have to pay $7 a drink...you can get them as cheap as $4 (during happy hour at least) :wink:

Oh no, I quite agree. I'm a native Californian, so I know drinks are cheaper than Manhattan. I enjoyed going to Tiki Ti for tiki drinks, and my favorite place for having a martini (stirred not shaken and actually using vermouth) was at the Dresden Room. The bartender, Steven, knew me by name and the drink was like $6. But I felt at the time that LA was a little behind in other cities when it came to using better spirits and fresh juices. Four years ago, the only place that I knew you could get that kind of cocktail was Hungry Cat in Hollywood. I think LA has improved a lot lately with bars like Varnish.

I did go to Smuggler's Cove for the first time last week, and I enjoyed it a lot! There was no trouble getting in on a Friday, and got a seat at the bar, where the bartender was extremely friendly to us. A pleasant surprise was that I didn't know was that Smuggler's Cove had a happy hour. You can't find that at any "high end" bar in Manhattan!

I'm not sure if I can credit NYC with being "ground zero for the cocktail revival", but NYC certainly knows how to use it as an excuse to push the price up.

I think the craft cocktail scene is a natural outgrowth of everything else going on in the food service industry. Everywhere you look, the menus are full of craft/artisinal/local/organic ingredients. It's only natural that this interest is going to extend to the cocktail menus as well. Doesn't hurt that you can charge a couple bucks extra for the "craft/specialty" drinks.

And not to sound too snippy, but try living somewhere where it's impossible to get a decent drink before you start bemoaning the cocktail culture of NYC. People new to Space Coast ask where is a good place to get a decent drink and I have to tell them with a straight face, "My house."

I remember during the swing fad of the 90's that the scene then was also full of "trend-chasing hipsters" as I call them. But without them, you may have nothing at all. Today, there are probably more swing dances per month in Orlando than NYC.

I've got a local neighborhood bistro and I'm trying to subtly influence them towards making better cocktails. It's slowly sinking in, primarily at their sister restaurant which is a little more upscale, but only time will tell.

However, we were at the sister restaurant recently and their cocktail list (which has over 100 "martinis" (!) ) listed a "champaign" cocktail (as in Illinois, not France) and my wife had what was supposed to be a gin martini that was unnaturally blue, we think from the curacao (!) they put in it!

It's like anytime someone performs a craft for an audience that is knowledgeable in that craft, the level of criticism goes up. Imagine cooking for chefs, singing in front of singers, or even showing off your bathroom remodel to a contractor, the level of criticism is going to be a degree or two more specific than for the general population.