velvet falernum=mistake

After all this time I finally get the damn stuff and what a joke!.I have had the "real stuff" straight up at the tiki ti from mikes stash, and this ain't even close.Now it may not have been made for a mixer to keep tropical drinks tasting correct, but damn I am bummed.Now for the good news which many already know.In a taste test, fee bros blows the doors off davinci.Do what ever it takes to get fees bros,it rocks!.Fact, not opinion. :drink:

Do you mean the "John D. Taylors" Velvet Falernum?

[ Edited by: Unga Bunga on 2003-07-28 22:57 ]

TWT, Do they have Fee's Bros at Beverage Warehouse in Culver City?

Did you find the velvet where I thought I saw it?

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2003-07-28 23:52 ]

TW,
I did some research.
Your right!
The DaVinci Gourmet syrup is crap.
It's the John D. Taylors Velvet Falernum that you want.
The Real McCoy Baby!

They have Fee Brothers at the address listed below. They also have other premiun liquors as well. They claim to have one of the largest selections of single malt scotch in the world. Definetly a cool place.

Wine & Liquor Depot
16938 Saticoy St, Van Nuys, CA 91406
Phone: (818) 996-1414

Cheers,

KT

Bunga, you crazy kid you!.please let me explain it again.For mixing tiki/tropical drinks 1)fee bros is GREAT. 2)davinci is ok. 3)velvet falernum sucks!. Are we clear?.This velvet stuff was made for other things than being a proper falernum.I am sure we could make it work if we worked "around"it,but it does not do the trick in a proper recipe.It tastes very weak and has no zing!.And at $12.00 a bottle, FOR-GIT-IT!.Atomic, buy the fees and don't bother with the V.F., but yes they had both.

What was your intial applicationgoal with Falernum, an additive or streight(yes,some articles have recommended it on he rocks)(if so what drink name)?
We never stop learning.

http://www.divefree.net/tours/foursquare/rum7.htm

http://www.drinkboy.com/LiquorCabinet/Syrups/Falernum.html

http://www.kingcocktail.com/Falenm-release.htm

[ Edited by: Unga Bunga on 2003-07-29 01:32 ]

DUDE, WHERE'S MY DRINK? :

Coconut Rum, Falernum syrup, pineapple juice filler, sour mix, and 151 Rum.

when I speak of recipes, I speak of the gathered scrolls of trader vic(1970ish revised)and Jeff Barry They did alot of homework to dig up the real deal, and if followed properly, great drinks follow.The websites are great and all, but I want to taste the original taste of the good old days.

[ Edited by: twowheelin'tiki on 2003-07-29 22:53 ]

Well , that's what I have been sayin all along(your other posts).
John D. Taylors Velvet Falernum
is the Original Formula by John D. Taylors created in 1890 on the island of Barbados.
Are you positive it was this brand and Tiki Ti? I have seen a replica\rip-off of it.

the stuff that tiki-ti used is not anything currently available.they have been using davinci ,but dont care for it.When they get back from vacation, I will take them a bottle of fee bros and dazzle mike with the flavor.When I sent them a post about v.f., he said it sounded like a premixed drink.I am glad I only got one bottle of the stuff.

Personally I'm quite sure that John D. Taylor's Velvet Falernum is the real deal without even having tried it... :wink:

John D. Taylor's is most definitely the real deal. I use a bottle of Taylor's White Falernum in my bar that was brought back by a friend from Barbados. It's very light and good. My understanding is that the Velvet variety is darker with more spice and is used more at the holidays in the islands.

But it's the real deal, and I guarantee that many bars have used Taylor for years.

[ Edited by: martiki6 on 2003-07-31 15:50 ]

Some of john taylors stuff may in fact be the "real deal", but "velvet" falernum is a liqueur off-shoot that should not be confused with the "mixer" falernum.

On 2003-07-31 19:00, twowheelin'tiki wrote:
Some of john taylors stuff may in fact be the "real deal", but "velvet" falernum is a liqueur off-shoot that should not be confused with the "mixer" falernum.

I think there's some confusion about exactly what falernum is supposed to be. From the sources I've read (admittedly far from conclusive), it is ALCOHOLIC, or at least, it originally was.

Now the key thing here of interest is whether it was that alcoholic falernum that was used to concoct the recipes in question, or the Sazerac branded flavour profile.

It's tempting to ignore the historical context of a drink's ingredients, and I'm eternally grateful to The Royal Beachbum's recognition and accomodation of this very important detail. It's like this, people:

Let's pretend there was a strange trend in vodkas back in the 1930s-1970s that was sweet and bitter. Lots of drinks were created which specified this "unauthentic" vodka. We fast-forward to the 1990s, and now have ready access to the "Real Deal" of vodkas straight from Mother Russia and other countries.

If we cling to "primacy" (seeking the most authentic/original source), we'd be ALTERING OUR DRINKS, wouldn't we? The mixologists' recipes are assuming a given combination of tastes.

The trick is to realise which falernum was most likely used in the recipes, and to find the best match.

Was JD Taylor's Falernum commonly used/available in the 20th century, or did Sazerac's rule the bar?

=Kukoae=

If you'll continue to search the archives, which obviously you did to dredge up this one, you'll find a taste test of the 4 available Falernums by some well-traveled palates.

After tasting we mixed test pilots with the Sazeracs.

Also - there is a topic which has a decent recipe for creating your own which approximates a combination of the Sazeracs and the Velvet.

As always, it's a matter of personal taste and my taste says the Fee Bros. is too tart. Perhaps if I cut back on lime juice it would balance out better.

The Sazeracs is tart as well, but a full flavor. Hail Kava King for his generous gift of such to me, his humble servant.

On 2005-05-24 13:36, pablus wrote:
As always, it's a matter of personal taste and my taste says the Fee Bros. is too tart. Perhaps if I cut back on lime juice it would balance out better.

The Sazeracs is tart as well, but a full flavor. Hail Kava King for his generous gift of such to me, his humble servant.

Excellent. I think I snagged a peek there, and there was some mention that a 50/50 mixture of the Fees + JD Taylor came pretty close to the Sazerac Falernum.

Would you say that's reasonable?

=Kukoae=

too funny that this thread is still going. I was just bitching about how foul this "velvet" crap is yesterday!.

And it's back, again. But you can thank Humuhumu for mentioning this (and other) previous posts in the Slack Key post. Well, at least that's what got me to poking around.

And then I came across this posting which refers to a recipe from the eGullet board. The fine thing about this post is that you'll be able to learn from other's "mistakes" as the basic ingredients for homemade Falernum seem to be quite easy. Be sure to read the comments for additional information.
Slakethirst Blog

Paul of The Cocktail Chronicles (also the Paul in the comments) attempt at Falernum:
Cocktail Chronicles Blog

Original eGullet recipe:
eGullet Falernum Recipe

I have not attempted to acquire any John D. Taylor’s “Velvet Falernum”, but I do plan on seeing if my local liquor store can order it. From there I think I’ll attempt to make my own adding or subtracting items or flavors that I feel either enhance or detract from my homemade product.

Good reading all, Rich

Yeah, that's where I got the original attempt at creating a homemade bottle of Falernum.

However, I have a recipe here that I posted previously that is much closer to the Sazeracs.

Having the John Taylor's around helped make this one much better.
I'll get even better on the next batch:

zest from 3 limes
juice from small lime
24 cloves
1/8 TSP almond extract
1 cup white rum

Put all of these into a container and cover and let sit for 24 hours.

Strain out the mixture and add 2 3/4 cups of Rock Candy Syrup.

Add 3 level Tablespoons of cloves and whip into mixture.

Let sit 12 hours.
Strain and enjoy.

STILL not as clove-y as the Taylor's.
But closer.

Thanks for the info! I'm going to give your recipe a go before the others.

So I guess from the forgoing (which had foregone quite some time ago), that this...

... would not be a waste of money.

As many of you know, I prefer to make my own stuff and, though I'll probably like my own falernum better, I don't use it that much. I'm inclined to use someone elses ready-made if it's good and then make my own when I'm in the mood for fresh cloves and lime zest. Hmm. I think I might be getting there as we speak (... err...um....type/read).

I've used vf before in a drink-- thought it was way too overpowering. I think it was Martiki that said they use it more during the holidays because of the extra spice? Damn straight there's extra spice in that!
I almost choked putting 1/4oz in a drink! I've found that when using VF, if you are going to, that the best way to cut down on the spice overload is to use very little in the drink. If it calls for 1/4oz, try using a teaspoon or something. I mean, you can always add more if you don't get enough. Add too much though, and your drink is toast. The falernum is all you'll taste.

I like Taylor's Velvet Falernum, tastes good to me. Maybe I'm a plebian?

Dale DeGroff, High Preist of the Classic Cocktail, hardily reccomends the John Taylor D. Velvet Falernum. For what it's worth/

On 2007-10-04 14:25, irishf wrote:
I like Taylor's Velvet Falernum, tastes good to me. Maybe I'm a plebian?

I'm with you, Irishf. I like Taylor's Velvet. Rich, smooth, spicey, plays well with most cocktails.

I am super jealous, Gnomon, that you can get it off the shelf like that. I had to order mine from the internet.

And if you want to make your own it is super easy. It is not fast if you want to do it right, but worth the effort.

I have used Fee's and the Velvet; haven't got used to the swing of the Velvet yet, but it has a much better taste on its own. The Fee's is gummy, but plays well with others. The Velvet has much more flavor, and is a cleaner taste. Is this closer to the ingredient in older recipes?

On 2003-07-29 00:26, twowheelin'tiki wrote:
1)fee bros is GREAT. 2)davinci is ok. 3)velvet falernum sucks!. Are we clear?.

I think a few people are getting confused, myself included, with respect to Velvet Falernum because there are two different brands that use velvet in the name. There is the heralded original Falernum from Barbados made by John D. Taylor and there is straight Velvet Falernum that was recently created by Dale DeGroff. See here:
http://www.kingcocktail.com/Falenm-release.htm

I've heard Fee's is great and also that it is too tart. Has anyone compared JD Taylors and DeGroffs "velvet" ? Anyone tried all three?

FYI-In Sippin Safari & Remixed, Da Bum recommends Fee Brothers:

"we've found that Fee Brother's works best in vintage tropical drinks"

I don't like the Fee's because of the corn syrup.
It's kinda gross.
I use the Taylor Velvet and it tastes pretty damn good.

On 2007-10-04 09:10, The Gnomon wrote:

¡Tick Tack! Superfiltrado y Multirectificado.

On 2010-09-12 16:04, CucamongaChango wrote:
I don't like the Fee's because of the corn syrup.
It's kinda gross.
I use the Taylor Velvet and it tastes pretty damn good.

That's an excellent point CC. Unfortunately it's true across Fee's line. They use HFCS in everything they make, save for their bitters. You would think that with the movement towards artisanal products they would switch to cane sugar. I know that I would be inclined to buy more of their products if they stopped using HFCS.

Trader Tiki's Falernum is now available...with no HFCS or preservamatives:

http://www.tradertiki.com/store/falernum/

The commercial brands taste so artificial to me. Whether it's HFCS or something else, I don't know. Fee's falernum is just plain awful if you ask me. There's just no substitute for making your own with it comes to falernum.

On 2010-09-13 09:25, GatorRob wrote:
... There's just no substitute for making your own with it comes to falernum.

Yes there is! Trader Tiki's brand as mentioned above. Check it out, it may be "commercial" but it's just like homemade but without the mess or time.

Thanks Paul, your check is in the mail!

Seriously though, I just put out my Falernum and I'm thrilled. Just like with the passion fruit syrup, I made it available because it's something I wanted available. Nothing goofy in it, just lime juice, sugar, clove oil, almond, and ginger, with a touch of gum to keep texture consistent.

I know what you're thinking... where's the rum? Well, it's a non-alcoholic product, but somewhere in the midst of production, a bottle of J.Wray makes its way to bottle heaven.

Anyhow, just thought I'd let you know that someone who gives a damn and has been making this at home for years has put something out there to make it a little easier for you. Seriously, it's good stuff made with real ingredients or I wouldn't put it out there.

Okole Maluna!

-Blair

I left that opening for you and I knew you'd say that. :wink: Seriously, if it was available in stores here, I'd be the first in line. I'm ecstatic you're putting all of these syrups out. I think it's fantastic! However, for a product that has a relatively short shelf life, the shipping cost just puts it outside of my personal price bracket comfort zone. This is no fault of yours, just the way it is. "Impossible to obtain locally" rums are a different story because, well, they are otherwise impossible to obtain locally. So if I want them badly enough I'll pay whatever the price is. I really do hope to try your syrups some day though. I'll be in Portland/Seattle next June, so that's my best bet to bring some back and I'm looking forward to it.

On 2010-09-13 14:35, GatorRob wrote:
I left that opening for you and I knew you'd say that. :wink:

Yeah, I have to admit to being predictable like that. I really ought to discuss things that aren't "BUY MY SYRUPS", but hey, go with what you know right?

I'll be in Portland/Seattle next June, so that's my best bet to bring some back and I'm looking forward to it.

Excellent! Do send me a PM when you'll be in town. I just got distribution in Louisiana, so... getting close to Florida all the time!

Well, I'm not on Trader Tiki's advertising payroll, but I can say that his Falernum is the best that I've tasted. I have the Fee's, JD Taylor, and Hanshell's and it's no contest. The TT is bright and spicy, perfectly balanced with the acid. Good work!

We just made our own falernum when we had some friends down and found we had none so we got it from the recipe in beachbum berry's remixed book and it is great and all natural(no corn syrup)Try it it wont take too long and costs virtually nothing!Also you had the pleasure to say i made that