Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

True, not anymore. But back in the 30s and 40s, hotel bars and restaurants were glamorous destinations for an evening out, and let's not forget that it was the big Hotel chains like Hilton and Sheraton that facilitated the Tiki craze by fronting the big bucks it took to build Don the Beachcombers, Trader Vic's and Kon-Tikis, which made the trend look worthwhile to copy for other entrepreneurs. Just as the turning away from and deserting of Hotel eateries sealed the death of the trend. This just as another historical footnote, to put whatever is coming/whenever it's coming into relation to what once was.

"But back in the 30s and 40s, hotel bars and restaurants were glamorous destinations for an evening out..."

There are still remnants of the great hotel bars and in most cities there are fancy schmancy hotels that usually have swanky bars which are frequently destinations in themselves. But the majority of hotels which serve the general traveling public (average tourists and business people) don't bother with having great bars or even having bars at all.

Whatever the One Answer is to this question it seems it has to also apply to all things in modern life which once were distinct or unique but are now all uniform and beige. This would include bars, restaurants, apartment buildings, houses, radio station formats, cars, et cetera.

On 2011-02-03 09:21, woofmutt wrote:
... it seems it has to also apply to all things in modern life which once were distinct or unique but are now all uniform and beige. This would include bars, restaurants, apartment buildings, houses, radio station formats, cars, et cetera.

And the Hotels and Motels on Harbor Boulevard as you approached Disneyland.

Yesterland: Food & Lodging

Driving up Harbor Blvd to Disneyland use to be almost as interesting as Disneyland itself with motels such as the Cosmic Age and it's space age design. But the same thing happened to the fun looking motels there that happened to the tiki bars and hotel/motels in other parts of the world.

Cosmic age!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/4116783490_220d2276ab.jpg

On 2011-02-03 10:06, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:

On 2011-02-03 09:21, woofmutt wrote:
... it seems it has to also apply to all things in modern life which once were distinct or unique but are now all uniform and beige. This would include bars, restaurants, apartment buildings, houses, radio station formats, cars, et cetera.

And the Hotels and Motels on Harbor Boulevard as you approached Disneyland.

Yesterland: Food & Lodging

Driving up Harbor Blvd to Disneyland use to be almost as interesting as Disneyland itself with motels such as the Cosmic Age and it's space age design. But the same thing happened to the fun looking motels there that happened to the tiki bars and hotel/motels in other parts of the world.

Also, the City of Anaheim passed an ordinance requiring all signs to be uniform, and to be located much closer to the ground. So, the public entity encouraged the renovation of the older hotels with more character, which was their goal.

On 2011-02-03 10:32, lucas vigor wrote:
Cosmic age!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/4116783490_220d2276ab.jpg

Here's a better scan:

...for all the resin decor lovers!

Now THAT'S clean!!!!! And how big are those giant hanging lamps above the lady to the right?!?!?
They look like teleporter tubes from Mars! And the guy at the desk should be wearing green antennas!

WOW!

Anaheim Motels

What is ironic is that Walt Disney himself was not happy with the "garish" motels and hotels that sprung up around Disneyland after it was built and that's what prompted him to make Disney World. He wanted to control the surrounding area around the park.

That is one area I felt Walt was anti-creative and anti-imagination.

Political content removed by me. What the &%#@ was I thinking?

[->>King Bushwich 33rd

WE HAVE A WINNER.

I'm up to my earlobes with work today, though, so you'll have to wait a while for the bestowing of the prize and the full explanation. Suffice it to say that a person has hit the bulls-eye perfectly.

Just like this:

Aw, a winner?

Best thread in a while, hope it goes on a bit longer after the Answer is revealed.

I tried earlier to think like a corporate-minded person to find a clue, but I found myself starting to dismantle my home tiki bar with a blank look on my face....

On 2011-02-03 11:55, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:

...That is one area I felt Walt was anti-creative and anti-imagination.

Nope, just (allegedly) anti-Semitic. At best "Uncle Walt" was a stooge for McCarthyism.

On 2011-02-03 13:58, Cammo wrote:

...so you'll have to wait a while for the bestowing of the prize and the full explanation.

At this point, no matter how good the actual explanation is, it ain't gonna be good enough. I'd just make something up that's really entertaining. :D

Oh well, at least a lot of thoughtful discussion was generated by this thread. I liked it.

"I tried earlier to think like a corporate-minded person to find a clue, but I found myself starting to dismantle my home tiki bar with a blank look on my face..."

This is a dangerous thread.

And the answer isn't going to be interesting, if it was interesting it would be all about how corporate types are BUILDING REALLY COOL Tiki bars and restaurants, not tearing them down as quick as possible! It's probably going to be depressing as hell.

And apparently the answer will be a long time coming.

Are you somehow making money by running commercial breaks on this thread? Is Geraldo Rivera involved?

On 2011-02-03 17:26, Cammo wrote:

And the answer isn't going to be interesting, if it was interesting it would be all about how corporate types are BUILDING REALLY COOL Tiki bars and restaurants, not tearing them down as quick as possible! It's probably going to be depressing as hell.

Why all the hate for "the corporations" ??

From a historic standpoint, Tiki was always by "The Man" and for "The Man".

And FYI, Trader Vic's is now Nubeco L.L.C.

"because it is there"

ok so Cammo has "picked a winner".. but for the record, I thought it was just to fit more seats where those pesky bridges/waterfalls were....

On 2011-02-03 22:20, JOHN-O wrote:
From a historic standpoint, Tiki was always by "The Man" and for "The Man".

Very true. And the style was, strictly speaking a cookie-cutter style that replicated one and the same success formula.
It's just that it was so much more imaginative and strange than whatever "the man" has brought forth since. And it inspired the "little man" to create his own version ad infinitum. And thus a pop culture was born.

It's all part of the Starbuckification of the nation.
If you go to Starbucks you are part of the problem.

Apparently I missed the winning answer and being at work I'm not going to go back to find it at the moment...... so I'll just add this to the conversation:

Love.

Or lack thereof from todays current "Management."

The Tiki Bar as we know it was an attempt for some to cash in on the success of others. Trader Vic copied Donn Beach, Bill Sapp and the Thorton Brothers copied Trader Vic, et cetera and so on.

Ultimately it isn't any different than Bennigan's copying Friday's copying Applebee's.

But, what is missing in most of today's 'Management' is Love.

I'll use the Mai Kai as the example since it is right down the street. The Thorton Brothers wanted to build a bar, loved the Tiki Palace's of the day, saw those same establishments were making lots of money, and made their own Tiki Bar in what was then the very outskirts of Fort Lauderdale.

But, it wasn't just a cookie cutter placement of some tikis and bamboo. They actually put some love into the place. One or both of the brothers would regularly travel into Oceania to get more and/or better things to add to their bar. They didn't 'hire' people, they brought them into the 'Family' of the Mai Kai.

It is the love of the place, the theme, the idea, the family, the overall concept that kept it going, and specifically to the Mai Kai, keeps it going to this day.

Modern Managers with their staff of MBA's and excel spreadsheets and marketing analysis look at places with an analytical mind, how many people can we fit, what is the rate of churn, how can we get them to stay long enough to have several drinks but not so long as to take up space from the next round of paying customers.

Its not right or wrong, its just a different way of analyzing a business.

Some of those MBA types really enjoy a good tiki bar, some wouldn't know a Tiki if it jumped off the wall and bit them in the ass. The rest of them learned in school how to 'maximize profit' and use all those profit maximization techniques to their benefit even if it is to the detriment of interesting or colorful places like Tiki Bars.

Which brings my long and winding dialog back around to the only way to keep 'our beloved tiki bars' open and functioning is to spend as much time and money as we can afford at those tiki bars. Become cheerleaders for your local tiki bars and get people to go to them, show them how cool they are so they in turn bring others, and so on. Profitable places don't get torn down or remodeled.

"It's all part of the Starbuckification of the nation. If you go to Starbucks you are part of the problem."

What if I only go to one of Starbuck's original locations? Then is it OK?

I don't go to Starbuck's, I don't like their coffee. I don't go to the Olive Garden or Applebee's or Marie Callender's because in general chain restaurants don't appeal to me. I also don't shop at JCPEnney's, watch prime time TV, or listen to Taylor Swift. But all the stuff I find boring clearly appeals to the majority of America and it won't be changing unless there's a complete societal collapse.

As all of that is the modern American landscape I can't say that it's a "problem" (from a cultural aspect) and that those who go to those places are responsible. I can say that I have a problem with most of America's mass culture, I think it's boring and uninteresting. But I don't think those who like shopping at the GAP or eating at the Cheesecake Factory are definitely boring or uninteresting merely because they like those places.

I've recently concluded that it's pretty much a waste of brain cells to critique or hate the American mass culture. Yes, our food is junky. Yes, our mainstream entertainment sucks. Yes, our mass commercial and residential architecture is boring and bland. But it's been like that for a long time and it more or less won't be changing.*****

It's easier to just ignore the sprawling beige background of America****** in the same way I ignore the repeated background on a driving scene in the Flinstones and instead focus on the unusual and interesting exceptions.

***** Most new retail establishments and restaurants are far more interesting looking now than what was typical 20 years ago. And the mass produced boxes of condos are now usually painted interesting colors. When taken as a whole it's still pretty boring, but at least it's something other than beige walls and cavernous bright white spaces.

****** The faceless masses who behave ridiculously I'll still dismiss as the Marching Morons. The people that won't get Tiki or anything that isn't part of the mainstream culture I still call the Ordinarys which is tongue and cheek and meant to imply that the people who make up Tiki Central are beyond ordinary.

On 2011-02-04 07:05, Chip and Andy wrote:
Profitable places don't get torn down or remodeled.

I am not sure if I agree with this statement....the disneyland tahitian terrace was hands down the coolest eatery Disneyland had, and they shut it down...I always wondered why, since the place was always packed!

I still go with changing tastes, a bias towards anything "old" in this country, and the sad, simple fact that tiki is not as popular then we would like it to be.

And aren't we passing judgment on the "boring" mainstream in much the same way the counter culture passed judgment on their parent's Tiki bars, restaurants. motels, etc (which at the time WERE part of the mainstream).

It amazes me how "anti-business" so many people here are. Let's say someone owns a struggling (yet profitable) mid-century Tiki business and then a large corporation offers to buy the land or location. If the owner takes up that offer to ensure the financial security of their family, is that "selling out" and being greedy or just being smart in our capitalist society ??

What would you do in a similar situation ??

Places like the Mai Kai and Tiki-Ti are anomolies and we should cherish them for as long as they exist, but we shouldn't expect others to "finance" our Tiki fix at a detriment to their cash flow.

I think the general dismissal of corporations isn't an attack on business or even people people making money, it's a reaction to companies which seem to have no interest in the communities where they do business other than how much money they can make there.

Well that's the problem then. Tikiphiles aren't being recognized by the general media and corporations as a "community".

It's all our own fault anyway. We spend all our time drinking in bars when we should be forming Political Action Committees and having representation in Washington D.C. !! :)

On 2011-02-04 09:30, woofmutt wrote:
I think the general dismissal of corporations isn't an attack on business or even people people making money, it's a reaction to companies which seem to have no interest in the communities where they do business other than how much money they can make there.

I applaud anyone, individual or corporation, if they can get ahead in the game of life.

I am Anti-Corporation. Not Anti-Business, Anti-Corporation.

The bigger a company gets, the closer it gets to becoming a Corporation. The more Corporate it becomes the more it needs to make money to maintain its growth and eventually reaches a point where making money is the only goal. I'll skip the obvious example of Walmart and go to something more appropriate to our group..... Anheuser-Busch.

Anheuser-Busch used to make really good beer. Then they switched from making beer to making an image, a brand, and the focus of the company went towards maintaining that brand instead of maintaining the process of making good beer. Now their beer is less tasty than I imagine horse-piss to be, in my opinion at least, and the company has reduced the entire process down to the lowest possible denominator. The beer is 'good enough', cheap enough to produce that it can sell cheaply thereby putting itself in a position to sell more which increases the profit by volume, and the quality of the beer is something measured by standards instead of something of a quality that people will seek out because it is good.

Actually, in the even more recent drinking past... Coors. It used to be a great regional beer that was good. So good in fact that people used to ask travelling friends and relatives to get some when they went through Coors Country. Coors today? More Horse-piss that is only slightly better than Budweiser.

So to tried and thread back towards the original question... the Hanalei became a victim of its own success. It was popular enough to attract people so it made enough money to become a target of a Corporation. Corporate takes over and you can see in the pictures what happened then. It became an asset to be profit maximized.

Sorry, I'm just ranting... I can't really get my rant back around to the topic at hand so I'll just toss the parting shot of Go-Go-Go Business Owners and Kill the Corporate Overlords.

On 2011-02-04 10:35, Chip and Andy wrote:

On 2011-02-04 09:30, woofmutt wrote:
I think the general dismissal of corporations isn't an attack on business or even people people making money, it's a reaction to companies which seem to have no interest in the communities where they do business other than how much money they can make there.

Anheuser-Busch used to make really good beer. Then they switched from making beer to making an image, a brand, and the focus of the company went towards maintaining that brand instead of maintaining the process of making good beer. Now their beer is less tasty than I imagine horse-piss to be. Actually, in the even more recent drinking past... Coors. It used to be a great regional beer that was good. So good in fact that people used to ask travelling friends and relatives to get some when they went through Coors Country. Coors today? More Horse-piss that is only slightly better than Budweiser.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't think this has been made public knowledge yet, but I read that one of the wikileaks documents revealed a secret anti-tiki cabal consisting of Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Fidel Castro, and Generalissimo Francisco Franco (amazingly still alive after all).

Apparently they meet up once a year to compare notes on progress toward the worldwide goal of tiki destruction. Bin Laden in particular is said to have extreme distaste for what he calls, "the kitschiness of non-authentic polynesian geegaws." However, a big factor in recent years has been the members' collective advancing age and increasing physical limitations (for example, Franco in fact is kept in a perpetual weightlessness environment in a low earth orbit satellite). This has had a detrimental impact on their effectiveness, and they were unable to stop several new advances in the tiki world from happening. They got the Beverly Hills Vics, but they couldn't stop Forbidden Island, Smuggler's Cove, and most recently Tiki No.

I hope this isn't political, just some reported intel I thought would be relevant to this thread.

-Randy

censored

On 2011-02-04 09:40, JOHN-O wrote:
Well that's the problem then. Tikiphiles aren't being recognized by the general media and corporations as a "community".

It's all our own fault anyway. We spend all our time drinking in bars when we should be forming Political Action Committees and having representation in Washington D.C. !! :)

I wanna be a Tiki Lobbyist when I grow up :D

On 2011-02-04 10:47, aquarj wrote:
I don't think this has been made public knowledge yet, but I read that one of the wikileaks documents revealed a secret anti-tiki cabal consisting of Kim Jong Il, Osama Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Fidel Castro, and Generalissimo Francisco Franco (amazingly still alive after all).

I hope this isn't political, just some reported intel I thought would be relevant to this thread.

You forgot about the Pope. He's in on it too !!

The Catholic church has BIG issues with the alcoholic excess and paganism of Tiki culture.

I think Cammo may be revealing that the Vatican has set up a shadow corporation that's buying up and leveling all of the Tiki in the world. You know they have the $$$ to do it.

I hope this isn't religious, just some reported intel I thought would be relevant to this thread.

[i]On 2011-02-04 17:27, JOHN-O wrote:
You forgot about the Pope. He's in on it too !!

While I normally believe that everything I read on the Internet is absolutely true, now you're just being silly. C'mon JOHN-O, what do you think, we were born yesterday?

Pope.. tiki.. HA! That's just poppycock.

However I did read that Elvis is leading the secret resistance against the axis of tiki destruction.

-Randy

Oh shoot. I screwed up. I did a Google search on "Pope" and "Tiki" just to see what would come up. This was the result...

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=13994&forum=13&1

:(

Sorry for the derail. Wait, what was this thread about ??

and here I thought it was tied into something simple as the color "Red" being represented in 80% of restaurants/fast foods chains, just as "Beige" or off white is associated with nearly the same percentage at hotels/motels...

And the statement about the themes in Las Vegas...Well they are not going to be around much longer. ALL of the big casino/hotels are rethinking, replanning, rebranding, and leading to eventual remodeling, and losing All theme. ALL of the new resorts that have been built in the last 4 years are plain jane/brass & glass painted in white, with marble floors. There is no more "theming" in Vegas, on the Corporate level, unless that theme is representative of Wealthy or Rich. The same can be said of the newly built homes that all carry the McMediterranean "In" look. The world is homogenizing, as the loss of creativity and risk, flourishes.

Back to the beigeness of most hotels...Beige is an uninteresting color, and non-exciteable to the brain. People goto hotels to sleep. If some hotels have 'pop' or "vibrance" to them, I would think that some people would want to celebrate, possibly keeping other travelers awake, causing the Hotel to lose business in the long run. Thats just my opinion.

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2011-02-04 20:12 ]

On 2011-02-04 08:51, JOHN-O wrote:
And aren't we passing judgment on the "boring" mainstream in much the same way the counter culture passed judgment on their parent's Tiki bars, restaurants. motels, etc (which at the time WERE part of the mainstream).

It amazes me how "anti-business" so many people here are. Let's say someone owns a struggling (yet profitable) mid-century Tiki business and then a large corporation offers to buy the land or location. If the owner takes up that offer to ensure the financial security of their family, is that "selling out" and being greedy or just being smart in our capitalist society ??

What would you do in a similar situation ??

Places like the Mai Kai and Tiki-Ti are anomolies and we should cherish them for as long as they exist, but we shouldn't expect others to "finance" our Tiki fix at a detriment to their cash flow.

Such is why the Tonga Room will disappear and, I presume, why the Venetian in Vegas removed Taboo Cove.

Looks a little like we are going in circles in this thread now....I suppose that's what happens when you're being left dangling this long.

I think it was because comment redacted for security purposes.

"Anheuser-Busch used to make really good beer. Then they switched from making beer to making an image, a brand, and the focus of the company went towards maintaining that brand instead of maintaining the process of making good beer. Now their beer is less tasty than I imagine horse-piss to be, in my opinion at least, and the company has reduced the entire process down to the lowest possible denominator."

Anheuser-Busch was bought in 2008 by Belgium-based InBev, the largest beer maker in the world (25% of the world market) and is no longer a U.S. company. InBev was able to make this purchase because everybody in the States started drinking Stella Artois (remember that???) in 2006-2009 to impress their dates with their good taste (it's packaged like champagne) and basically sunk good old Bud. We are still recoiling from the results.

"...I suppose that's what happens when you're being left dangling this long."

Hey, I was gone for ONE DAY. You guys seem to be getting along fine without me, Chip & Andy haven't posted so many brilliant responses in years!

And Lucas the V is back too!

"...I suppose that's what happens when you're being left dangling this long."

"Hey, I was gone for ONE DAY."

That's like a year on the Internet.

Can someone point me to the part of the thread where Cammo revealed The One Answer? I've looked back over the thread a couple times and apparently keep missing it. Cammo came back and talked about lousy beer (I thought Stella Artois was Budweiser just in a fancy bottle/glass) and didn't mention The One Answer so I guess that means the thread is beyond the point of The One Answer.

yea wheres THE answer. Is this turning into a anti tiki conspiracy theory?

Actually Cammo DID post the one answer last night but it was so controversial and mind blowing that as a moderator I felt it was my duty to promptly delete it, lest the entire TC world implode. Sorry folks.

However, if Cammo posts it again, I'll leave it up this time

Wow, I had heard a rumor from one of our more paranoid members***** that The One Answer was actually pretty powerful and would lead to many people questioning all they thought they knew about Tiki but I didn't think it could be true.

Maybe Cammo should post The One Answer a word at a time. That would help people slowly absorb "...A truth so wide sweeping and ground shaking that Taschen has already looked into recalling all copies of The Book of Tiki..." (as the paranoid member claimed). Posting The One Answer a word at a time could also help drag this thread out for at least a half dozen more pages.

***** I know it seems everyone around here operates at the same level of extreme paranoia but there are a few who have that little extra bit of suspicion which gives them the paranoid edge.

....let's see, how many more "funny" replies can we post until Cammo's need for attention is sated?

Ok so who caught the answer, can you please enlighten the rest of us!

"...How many more "funny" replies can we post until Cammo's need for attention is sated?"

I genuinely don't think Cammo started this thread or has delayed his revelation of The One Answer based on a "need for attention."

The thread asked an interesting question and has led to some good discussion. (And gasps of horror from two Tiki loving friends when I showed the before and after pics of the Hanalei Hotel bar to them.)

Cammo has probably delayed giving us The One Answer because it's epic and he keeps tweaking the post in which he will reveal the answer to us. Or maybe he's busy. I know there's a 25% off sale going on at Macy's today and if you miss it you have to wait until the 25% off sale happens on Wednesday.

File Under: Fiction

[ Edited by: woofmutt 2011-02-05 11:37 ]

I guess we need to consult our village shaman - better yet we'll have to carve elaborate face masks, paint our bodies and wait for a full moon so we can dance by fire after ingesting huge amounts of sacred visionary liquid - then and only then shall the answer be revealed.

I'm in - who else?

Is Cammo's quote from Chip & Andy (below) a hint to the one answer he (or she) is so reluctant to deliver? Are all the tiki palaces being purchased by foreign companies who remodel to their liking (or formula)? It's been stated that the management at the Hanalei digs tiki, but perhaps their foreign owners don't believe tha tiki deserves such a prominent place in the hotel decor? Will Chimay de-throne the Mai Tai as the tiki drink of choice? Is it time for red-blooded, tiki loving Americans to bring democracy to Belgium so they'll quit buying up (and beiging up) all of our cool shit?

On 2011-02-05 06:25, Cammo wrote:
"Anheuser-Busch used to make really good beer. Then they switched from making beer to making an image, a brand, and the focus of the company went towards maintaining that brand instead of maintaining the process of making good beer. Now their beer is less tasty than I imagine horse-piss to be, in my opinion at least, and the company has reduced the entire process down to the lowest possible denominator."

Anheuser-Busch was bought in 2008 by Belgium-based InBev, the largest beer maker in the world (25% of the world market) and is no longer a U.S. company. InBev was able to make this purchase because everybody in the States started drinking Stella Artois (remember that???) in 2006-2009 to impress their dates with their good taste (it's packaged like champagne) and basically sunk good old Bud. We are still recoiling from the results.

"...I suppose that's what happens when you're being left dangling this long."

Hey, I was gone for ONE DAY. You guys seem to be getting along fine without me, Chip & Andy haven't posted so many brilliant responses in years!

And Lucas the V is back too!

I shudder to think that Budweiser would ever be included in the category of "cool shit". PBR maybe, or I would go as far as Black Label, but other then Dalmatians and Clydesdales, Bud has very little going for it.