New to the forum and love it!

Sorry I disturbed your forum.

[ Edited by: ironhardt 2011-07-27 16:08 ]

Uh Oh!

is that blood I see in the water ???

On 2011-07-27 11:13, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
Uh Oh!

Have I done something wrong? It was must first post.

batten down Ironhardt,there is a big blow coming,something a kin to a 'WHITE SQUALL'
just hang in there,listen,and when the dust has settled ,just say something like "your coments have been noted ,thanks for the input."
do not try to go head to head with these people,they will eat you alive.

"Pets are welcome,Children 'MUST' be on leash" TD

[ Edited by: TIKI DAVID 2011-07-27 12:16 ]

On 2011-07-27 11:13, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
Uh Oh!

Too funny, that is exactly what I said to myself as I started reading this.

I think MadDogMike (TCs Diplomat) should take this one.

Welcome to TC Ironhardt!

On 2011-07-27 12:06, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
I think MadDogMike (TCs Diplomat) should take this one.

Welcome to TC Ironhardt!

Woops! It's called Bob's Belly.

IRONHARDT,You MUST renounce 'Jimmy Buffet' as 'SATAN'
and accept 'BIGBRO' as your Saviour.
seek out the 'GOOD BOOK'(The Book of TIKI)&the 'GOOD BOOK part 2'(TIKI MODERN)Acquire them read/study them, learn them.
then and only then will there be a chance that you could be saved.

Just my opinion,I could be wrong.

Nice pool.

ironhardt,

First of all, welcome to Tiki Central, and you do have a very nice bar there. That out of the way, let me say that none of this is meant to be taken personally. Tiki has a certain kind of vibe to it, just as the Beach/Island/Caribbean style has a vibe to it. They are not the same vibe. The Tiki community is a bit protective of Tiki Style, and there are certain things that are and are not Tiki. Buffet and the Beach/Island/Caribbean style are not Tiki.

That does not mean you can't like those styles or Buffet's music, but they have their place, and unfortunately Tiki Central isn't it. As the name implies, Tiki Central is for Tiki. Merely adding some tikis to something that isn't Tiki doesn't make the un-Tiki thing Tiki. Some may try to explain this to you in a more aggressive manner, some in a more friendly and non confrontational manner. You need to understand that there is so much effort out there to include so many things that don't belong to Tiki Style into the Tiki Culture, efforts that begin to further blur the already fuzzy boundaries and dilute Tiki, that the effort to preserve what really IS Tiki has become almost a crusade for some.

Please do stick around, read, learn about and enjoy what Tiki Culture is really about. It's just that Buffet and the Beach/Island/Caribbean style is oil to Tiki's water.

Bear

Nicely and simply said, B.B. I just want to add that the need for careful differentiation of the styles lies in the HISTORY of Tiki style. By the 1980s it had fallen so out of fashion that it practically did not exist anymore. Partly responsible for that was that the style had been "watered down" by a need to make it less culturally implicit, (meaning perceived as "racist"), by devolving into more of a GENERIC tropical island theme, as exemplified in the TV show "Fantasy Island" and yes, the music of Jimmy Buffet. To avoid the return of this "everything goes"/"Island Lifestyle" look we are kind of protective of the style. We want to preserve its uniqueness, which got us to fall in love with it in the first place. There is much more to it than brightly colored import store masks and internet store "Tiki Bar" signs.

On 2011-07-27 12:06, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
I think MadDogMike (TCs Diplomat) should take this one.

Welcome to TC Ironhardt!

:lol: Sorry, I was on the road and I missed it :lol:

Looks like Bruddah Bear took care of it for me :)

EDIT - For what it's worth, I think everyone showed remarkable restraint here. Sometimes the newbies get hit with both barrels and they don't even know what happened and I feel sorry for them. Of course, the trolls are a different animal altogether and they deserve exactly what they get and more. The hard part is sometimes telling the uneducated newbies from the trolls.

Hey look, mister. We serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere". Is that clear?

[ Edited by: MadDogMike 2011-07-27 18:52 ]

On 2011-07-27 16:34, MadDogMike wrote:

On 2011-07-27 12:06, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
I think MadDogMike (TCs Diplomat) should take this one.

Welcome to TC Ironhardt!

:lol: Sorry, I was on the road and I missed it :lol:

Looks like Bruddah Bear took care of it for me :)

Mike, I attempted to anyway. :)

On 2011-07-27 15:27, bigbrotiki wrote:
Nicely and simply said, B.B.

Thank you, Sven.

I consider that high praise from the man who dug through all the minutiae to attempt to clearly define the boundaries of Tiki for the rest of us. With all the dilution and devolution of Tiki in the '70s and '80s, you are one man who figured out how to nail Jello to a wall.

On 2011-07-27 11:09, ironhardt wrote:
Sorry I disturbed your forum.

[ Edited by: ironhardt 2011-07-27 16:08 ]

ironhardt (I hope you're still around to read this},

I wouldn't say disturbed as much as presented an opportunity.

Yes, an opportunity (as long as folks can keep it polite) to discuss, explore, and even learn from each other, just what makes a bar Tiki and what makes a bar Beach/Island/Caribbean (B/I/C). Some of us really enjoy a good philosophical discussion every now and then. I apologize if my post seemed gruff or disturbed by your presence, it wasn't meant that way. I just wanted to explain why your post was getting some of the reactions that it did and to forewarn you that worse could be on the way from... well... let's just say.. less diplomatic members.

The only real difficulty was that (due to being unaware) your bar was posted in the Home Tiki Bars folder but had a more B/I/C look/feel to it, and really, this is due to a few specific elements being present, and other elements not included into the decor. Others have done the same thing, but when TC members attempted to inform or educate them on Tiki Style the members were met with belligerence and a refusal to even acknowledge there was a difference in the styles (prime example here}. Those posters didn't last long.

You, however, were quite different in that you recognized that something was amiss by some of the cryptic replies (thanks guys :P ) you received and immediately attempted to make amends. That is at least until you finally found out what the offense (fairly minor one) really was and then took a more drastic but unnecessary measure by deleting your post.

I'm actually quite sorry that you deleted the text of your original post, including taking down your photos. As I said before, it's a very nice bar. It actually has some elements that although are not, in and of themselves, elements traditionally associated with Tiki, yet can work very well with Tiki Style. If (and I do mean "if") you ever wished to change up the focus of your bar to reflect Tiki Style, you have a very good basis to start from.

The fact that your bar gives off a more B/I/C vibe isn't a kiss of death in regard to this forum either, at least not as bad as some earlier posters implied (heck, even MadDogMike was recently chided for posting a pic of a decor element that made his "Leslie's Lanai" look like a cheap Baja Gringo dive. :lol: ). We do have a section called Beyond Tiki where topics that don't really fit into Tiki Culture are discussed. I had placed a vote that your thread be moved there where we could continue to discuss your interesting and well constructed bar in a more out of the way folder.

I would seriously encourage you to not give up on this forum (I certainly am not giving up on YOU), I don't wish to change you or your focus, just help you understand what truly is Tiki.

:drink:

Bear

Nicely said everyone, Ironhardt I hope you are still around
you do have a very nice bar setup and if you wanted to make it a more authentic Tiki Bar
then you are in the right place, just check out the home Tiki Bar thread to get an idea
of what it is we do around here, feel free to ask for tips & advice,you will find many helpful
people here including world famous builders & artists.

We are old school here, Think of your Dad's Tiki Bar from the 50s & 60s and you will get an idea of
what we are trying to preserve.

Wow took his pictures down and left. Way to destroy the guys' enthusiasm fellas. He went from super excited and complimentary, to deleting his post. You Guildmasters certainly pwned that newb.

Anyone who spends any time around here could see that attack coming. Just as much as the usual response of,

"What, what? I was really complimentary. I even said hi before telling this idiot (who has posted all of three times) how wrong his parrot is according to an out of print book. Just saying. If I don't correct every person who has been here less than a day the integrity of Tiki Central will collapse and everyone on TC will suddenly be buying Margaritaville signs and putting surf boards on the wall."

If really educating him was anyone's intent you could have ignored him, told him "Nice bamboo work, nice floor" or something, or asked a question. Fact is he bolted, and will now learn nothing about Tiki or Poly Pop. The end result is the Margaritaville sign is staying up in this guy's bar, the parrot will hold center court, and the Buffett will continue to play. But hey it was really important that that fish in the barrel get shot.

If we would politely ignore all the Margaritaville images posted here, they would continue to stand on this site as examples of "Tiki". Most people go no further than the internet these days: They'd open this thread, see the images and think "If this is on Tiki Central, it must be Tiki!"

WE did not take the images down, we just commented on their authenticity. But now we shouldn't do that? I have never seen a post explaining the facts in a nicer tone than BB's. If that person cannot understand this kind of explanation, than their interest in Tiki was only skin deep, too.

As the Tiki Revival is moving away from its original inspirations, more and more newcomers with less and less knowledge of what Tiki really is will want to "have fun" with the style, wanting to ad it to THEIR idea of fun - be that Margaritaville, Reggae, Hot Rods, Rockabilly, Burlesque, Scooters, or Steam Punk. If we cannot even tell them "Go and do what you dig, but this is Tiki, and that ain't" what will be left of the definition of the genre?

I'm kind of disappointed I didn't get to see the pictures.....

Yeah, I want to see what all the fuss is about. It must've been a vulgar display of parrot head blasphemy.

He had a pretty nice sit down TikiBar poolside with full service setup
But it was decorated with all the usual Parrot head trappings,Neon etc.
and emphasized Dos Equis beer.

Well, I must confess that I do have a couple of questionable non-tiki acoutrements in my bar. But these were gifts and I didn't want to offend the loved ones that gave them to me. But they are barely noticeable amidst my carvings, art and decor.

TT,

The thing was, his original post was about how he and his wife liked Margaritaville and his efforts to recreate it in their backyard. That and the feel of the bar is what I think set off the "Uh-oh" comments.

The bar had bead board paneling on the bar front and back bar that had a golden honey finish, rustic wooden round poles supported a palpa thatch roof, rope accents were wrapped and tied on the wood poles and a rope trim wrapped the bar top, wooden slat bar stools and patio furniture around the bar and pool deck, all in all it wasn't a bad looking bar. It had some Tiki potential with the right elements added to it.

The added decor items were three tiki masks/figurines, a surfboard with hibiscus flower decoration hanging at the top of the back bar, three faux tropical birds (parrots and toucan), a couple of posters/signs on the fence (can't remember the messages), and the most glaring non-Tiki elements (well, I'd say more like anti-Tiki) the Margaritaville and Corona Beer parrot neon signs on the back bar.

The non-Tiki elements certainly outnumbered and outweighed the few truly Tiki elements, but the bar wasn't a lost cause as far as Tiki Style. Some definite Tiki elements were missing, bamboo, lauhala matting, Tiki lights, nets, more tikis, etc. But stuff could be added for that richly layered look a good Tiki bar has. I didn't have as big of a problem with the surfboard and faux birds as some might have, those, and other, not specifically Tiki elements have been successfully incorporated into Tiki bars in the past. It's just that the definite Tiki items should outnumber and outweigh the non-Tiki elements any time they are utilized so they don't overwhelm the Tiki vibe of the bar.

Just remove the Margaritaville and Corona Beer neon signs and the scales would have been ready to tip toward Tiki. But like he said he said in his original post, he was shooting for Margaritaville.

As far as the pics go, if ironhardt uploaded them to TC they are still there among all the other uploaded images, we just don't know the url addresses to view them, and if they were hot linked from some photo hosting site... well, whatever, they're gone.

Bear

Damn Brudda Bear, great memory buddy! I didn't even get the beer sign right. :o

I think it's funny how much Jimmy Buffets name comes up in general. Damn the JB he is omnipresent!

Ahem...

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=36260&forum=13&vpost=526949

I'm sure everyone here has a friend or three who has a "tiki bar" by the pool or whatever. Hell, they sell them at Target and Big Lots. If you think there is something wrong with pointing out that a plastic bamboo bar with thatch on top is not technically a Tiki bar, then what would you suggest? And when some friend hands you a present for your Tiki bar and it is a mayan inspired carving, do you proudly put it in your Tiki bar? No. There is nothing wrong with explaining the differences. We can't allow Party City and Big Lots to define what is Tiki when we've all know what defined it 40 years ago exactly.

You can do whatever you want with your own home. But don't come to Tiki Central showing off your Mayan stone carvings and tell us they are Tikis and expect us not to let you know you are in error. That would be silly.

Well said Swanky. :up: