What is tiki?

What is Tiki?

At this point, I don’t know any more.

I discovered this forum around 2003. From the first, I was amazed that there was a whole community of people that were talking about something I had only known about in my youth, the tiki craze which had swept America in the 50’s and was the reason there were so many cool old motels in Anaheim California with fanciful, pacific-island themed names. I was hooked. Instantly. Around the same time, my sister found the Book of Tiki and got it for me for my birthday. Reading the pages, I was amazed and blown away by what I was seeing! This man, Sven Kirsten, had documented a long gone phase of American culture that I had only ever seen glimpses of. In that book was codified the whole thing!
Forgotten drinks. Mugs. Exotica music! Tiki “temples”. Fake Polynesian food, heavy on the MSG and food coloring. Middle aged business men and their June Cleaver-esqe wives acting like crazed natives after a hard day’s work on wall street or in the manhattan ad agencies. This was all something I had thought of before, but never seen to the extent that was now displayed in the pages of this marvelous tome!
And the music! On this forum, people were talking about long gone names from the past! Denny, Lyman, Baxter, Esquivel!
Then I started attending tiki events. Seeing bands like the Mai-Kai gents, which were such a great throwback to a different time and place! It was exhilarating and refreshing, to say the least!
I have remained steadfast in my appreciation of this forum, and tiki culture in general, but as of late, have also found myself getting dismayed and saddened by what I see occurring here.
I believe the focus of this forum has changed and degenerated into a mere shadow of what Hanford once had as a beautiful vision of a glorious time in American history.
Newcomers constantly post threads which have nothing to do with poly-pop. And pointing it out, only points the finger back at you. Nobody seems to care any more. Now we talk about rock music and hippy stuff, and call it tiki. Few seem to really disagree. Seems the whole concept is slowly dying. I find it sad, but also, an increasing waste of time. The parrot heads and grateful dead fans are taking over. The focus in the music section has been reduced to rock music, punk music and other things of that nature.
True, I have made a few friends here, and had some good times, but I find myself alone in my defense and appreciation of the true nature of poly-pop.
Therefore, I think it is time I made my exit. Maybe I will return one day, maybe not.
I feel few would miss me anyway.
So for now, adios, Tiki central! I want to thank Hanford for creating this forum, for the numerous people who have created tiki events, for Sven Kirsten and his excellent work and books.
I am not going to abandon my love for tiki. I believe the original tiki craze was cool enough to archive, preserve and enjoy for a long time to come. Hopefully one day, the direction will return back to what tiki is and was, but for now, I am tired of explaining and defending it.

Wow, that's sad. There are lots here fighting the fight. Hope you'll be back .... someday.

DC

Lucas, I for one don't want you to leave (Shane,Shane come back!)
we need a "Voice of Dissension" to keep the dialog going, to question the questionable and to
wake the sleeping & uncaring voices of mediocrity.

Water needs to be in motion to keep from being stagnant
and your the rock that creates the ripples in this particular pond & that's a good thing!

I know I will see you at the regular places, but you will be missed on TC.

CTiT

My mom always said...

"If you don't have anything tiki to say, don't say anything at all" or something like that?

...I am now confused?

Later,

PTD

Lucas,spend more time in the Locating Tiki and Collecting Tiki sections, and you will see none of the superfluous stuff, and more just pure vintage Tiki. That's where most of the real geeking out goes on.

Just my $.02

Oh Lucas !!

agree with Jim, and look at the art once ion a while too.

Under the banner "Tiki Central" it says "Celebrating Classic AND MODERN [emphasis mine]Polynesian Pop".
Nearly everything I see on here is pointed at nostalgia, which is lovely, but no one should be threatened by the occasional inclusion of the present. We are, afterall, alive in the here and now. Many are creating their own art, drinks, music, clothing, and decor that is an homage to the past, but not mired in it. It's a beautiful thing and takes nothing away from the golden age of the Polynesian Palaces of yore.

I think there is a good balance between both here, it is all about where you decide to hang out:

Obviously "Tiki Events","Creating Tiki","Home Tiki Bars" and "Tiki Gallery" have lots of contemporary material, while "Collecting" and "Locating" are more Tiki history related - with "General Tiki" ideally encompassing both.

All the other problems, lack of quality content, newbies not in the know, and so on, are natural for a 10 year + movement.

Well Lucas said Adios so I take that to mean he is not logging in to read any of our responses to his "I quit" thread.(Certainly not the first one from a disgruntled TC'er) I've never had the pleasure of meeting him but have always respected his posts. I won't try to talk anyone back in off the ledge if they have decided to divorce themselves. However, I can't help but think that when a respected and knowledgeable contributing member of our forum leaves they also take with them their positive input and that will always lessen the value of our community. We can't all contribute volumes of useful information on vintage poly-pop but a lot of smaller pieces posted by thousands of "centralites" have been what has made this forum such a treasure. No two "tiki establishments" have ever been exactly alike and so it is with TC'ers and their likes and dislikes. What about Lucas' original question: "What is tiki?"
I think that has been bantered around on this forum enough times to get the answer. It is whatever the individual decides it is .....for them.

Unfortunately, it's all too common on these forums to try and contribute or help folks only to be treated badly in the end. This is actually my second go around. Last time I got tired of the rude, unfriendly behavior and deleted my account. Since then I had used this site for research and reference, but rarely contributed. When someone contributes, then is snapped at or attacked for it, they are unlikely to ever contribute again. I have seen this same phenomenon kill forums. The reason being is that if new users come here and see people being treated poorly, they have to ask themselves "why would I contribute if I'm going to be treated ungratefully after doing so?" The answer is, they won't, we all have a lot going on in our lives and a lot more things to spend our time on than to bother wasting it where it's not appreciated. I have returned in the hopes that those that behaved in this manner have either grown up or moved on, I guess time will tell.

I don't know nothin' from nothin' but I think it's like television. There's apparently a big audience for content I don't care for, so I limit my involvement. Occasionally I pulled into something I enjoy and appreciate, occasionally I pulled into something that's a big waste time. If the whole shebang was Bongo Bungalow TV... now that'd be something!

I say there has been too much pulling back here already, leaving the playing field to the newbies and not-understanders, which thus makes them appear to quantify. C'mon, let's tell'em what Tiki is, again and again, without fear offending any sensibilities, that is what this site is meant for. They are free to take it or leave it.

I too bemoan the days when more original Tiki brethren participated, but to withdraw into ones own cocoon of the perfect Tiki world is simply misanthropical, and passive-regressive. I try to remember Don Blanding's words about Hawaii and apply them to the Tiki Revival:

"HAS HAWAII changed? What hasn't and who hasn't? Tomorrow's "Good Old Days" are happening today. Let's make them good old days NOW."

On 2011-09-17 07:23, bigbrotiki wrote:

"HAS HAWAII changed? What hasn't and who hasn't? Tomorrow's "Good Old Days" are happening today. Let's make them good old days NOW."

Now THAT'S tiki!

Back to Bilge with you, Lucas!!!

You ever find those Tiki Fonts? :wink:

p.s.

Arrrrrrr.....

I grew up on Rosecrans Street in San Diego...hung out all the time on Shelter Island at the Polynesian Hotels and docks...many fond memories. As an adult I appreciated tropical cocktails, exotica, found TC, have made many wonderful friends, installed a Tiki lounge in my home, and attend events as I can. I am not and never will be a Tikibrainiac, I leave that to the experts, but over time have learned some of the basics. I get off-topic sometimes, avoid controversy when I can and watch TC wax and wane through endless diversities. Sometimes a break is good, but when long-timers leave it is sad...hope everything works out for you as your posts are a hell of a lot better than my trivial attempts...LOL.

This is Just Lucas and his once a year Tirade/rants.
He'll be back in a month or so.
oh and you know, he's lurking reading everything on TC,
and this thread.

Jeff(btd)

On 2011-09-16 12:48, lucas vigor wrote:
Now we talk about rock music and hippy stuff, and call it tiki. Few seem to really disagree. Seems the whole concept is slowly dying. I find it sad, but also, an increasing waste of time. The parrot heads and grateful dead fans are taking over. The focus in the music section has been reduced to rock music, punk music and other things of that nature.

Does anyone else feel the same way? No offense to him, I think Lucas has lost his mind. Rock and hippy stuff? Parrot heads taking over? Since when?

Lucas likes to exaggerate,
because a few newbies come here, and think that Tiki is Jimmy Buffet, Parrot heads,
he thinks its everybody.

He also thinks that because I post about surf band shows at Tiki bars, that everyone on here (or at least tiki people in (So. Cal.) are into surf, I try to tell him, that if I'm lucky I can talk 3 to 5 tiki people into going to any surf shows.

Jeff(btd)

"HAS HAWAII changed? What hasn't and who hasn't? Tomorrow's "Good Old Days" are happening today. Let's make them good old days NOW."

+1

Nicely quoted, and an attitude I try to apply to many situations myself.

I don't know Lucas, but I wish him well. And, I've clicked through to some of his music / videos etc. and thought they were pretty cool. My music taste, as relates to tiki, is probably not quite the same as anybody else's on here, but c'mon, music is way too subjective to expect that.

Same goes for tiki aesthetic / appreciation I suppose, but on that front, if the forums were created to focus on certain things in particular, when newcomers arrive, or oldcomers contribute stuff that doesn't mesh well with the charter or vision per se, then by all means I see no problem with the resident experts correcting those posts and posters.

I greatly appreciated bigbro's comments when I posted a recent thread about Bacardi Oakheart. It's what makes newbies experts (or at least smarter newbies).

:)

I'm sad to see Lucas go even if just for a little while but what I see as a problem is when something gets posted that doesn't fit at all and a person new member or old gets justifiably blasted all these "Helper Bees" come out of the woodwork and defend the lame post! :o

To me it's all part of the whole mentality everywhere now "It's not wrong if they like it","In my house, I consider this Tiki" and "Everyone gets a trophy because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings" but they also don't learn anything and then someone will drop a ridicules "It's all good" when it's clearly not good, not Tiki or even close.

Now Lucas get back in here and keep fighting and promoting that Hapa Haole stuff that you love such much!

I'm gonna go play Cityville.

P.S. I Hate Iz!!

I'm with Boris on this one, Todays politically correct (Just ignore everything attitude)
we are all "Special" is not "Tiki" nor helpful, we just don't need to be rude about it.

It's OK to have opposing opinions and not attack anyone, unless of course you are attacking someone.

We really should have a "Tiki Primer" page for newbies too, or at least get the "Book of Tiki" another printing.

Amen Chuck, that is my main concern. I don't think anyone is saying that it should be anything goes when it comes to posting, but that's no excuse to be rude, dismissive or down right abusive. There very well may be folks that have a hell of a lot to contribute on this board but don't appreciate the all too typical abuse some throw from the safety of their keyboards. Above and beyond being childish and cowardly, it's also completely counter productive. If a user (be them new or old) is straying from the intended focus of this board, they can be informed of that without ridiculous schoolyard behavior. I'm all for keeping the focus of this board on track, but too often the way it's carried out just turns a current user into a lurker. I think we have enough negativity in our lives without having to find it here. Besides THAT attitude is distinctly not tiki. Tiki is neither elitist or exclusionary, maybe this board can consider that when deciding what is or isn't tiki.

On 2011-09-17 16:59, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:

We really should have a "Tiki Primer" page for newbies too

I think theres already a page for that... its at the top of the of the TC page titled "Celebrating Classic and Modern Polynesian Pop" click on it and it tells you what TC is and isnt.

On 2011-09-17 17:54, Tiki Pop wrote:

On 2011-09-17 16:59, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:

We really should have a "Tiki Primer" page for newbies too

I think theres already a page for that... its at the top of the of the TC page titled "Celebrating Classic and Modern Polynesian Pop" click on it and it tells you what TC is and isnt.

I don’t think a primer is enough, there should be one of those dialog boxes that you see whenever you install new software that says things like “I have read and understand the Legal Terms and Conditions…",before they can precede. Then we’ll be able to enforce tiki by penalty of the law.

A page where it gives newbies tips on how to find the info (Using the search link for example)
some basic places to begin & forums to find certain info (with links) etc.

A little who's who of TC with a welcome from BigBro, Doug Horne etc, Topics that may get a bigger reaction then expected and a few tips on TC etiquette could be helpful to a new member instead of just throwing them in the deep end.

The "Celebrating Classic and Modern Polynesian Pop" link does not fit the bill, Then maybe we can reduce the number of posts from first timers that seem to set some TCers off.

Is Lucas gone? Cool then I'm coming back. Ha Ha Just kidding Strong opinions are actually refreshing to me, even if I don't agree with them all. You just might learn something from them. But, whatever floats your leaky little boat.

On 2011-09-16 18:17, 8FT Tiki wrote:
What about Lucas' original question: "What is tiki?"
I think that has been bantered around on this forum enough times to get the answer. It is whatever the individual decides it is .....for them.

:up: :up: :up:This.

I think one of the main problems is that people, and not necessarily newbies only, just do not use the search function. Or that the volume of threads/posts that appear when a single word is typed in, is too much to have to read through and people just think, 'I can't be bothered reading all that, i'll just start a new thread'.

That is one thing i think Hanford or one of the other moderators should look at changing. The search button is tiny and hidden amongst the other things you can click on to help guide you through the site. I personally think that section needs to be layed out in a far clearer way with the search button possibly having the most prominent position and a box next to it allowing people to type a word/topic into it and then have the threads to choose from appear, rather than being taken to a 'search' page.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2011-09-17 20:30 ]

Keep in mind that TC is run off of an off-the-shelf forum software package. Even though the search function could be made more prominent within the layout of TC, actually modifying the search functionality would require programming that is entirely non-trivial. Meaning that to get the search function to "work better" would require a major overhaul of the underlying technology and, perhaps, even the database structure. That isn't really likely to happen, to be honest. It's a very complicated thing to do that, and once you exhaust the built-in features of a particular system, getting it to do something it wasn't specifically designed to do is usually not very easy and has negative trade-offs (in terms of accuracy, missing results, false positives, etc. etc.)

With that said, yeah, the search feature isn't perfect for sure.

The search feature works fine if you take a minute to learn how to use it, Yes it's hard to do a search on the word "Tiki' but if you have any more information than that I haven't really had a problem. This to me is a perfect example of coddling people who have no idea of what this place is about or what they're looking for. If they can't find the search feature and take the time to figure out what is searchable and what isn't they're certainly not going to bother reading "What Tiki Central Isn't" or The Book of Tiki.

The search feature does work fine, provided you DO use it. My point is that people are generally lazy. I added a comment to another thread yesterday relating to cartoons. When i found the picture the first thing i did was search the word 'cartoon' and then added my post to the thread that arose that was most relevant. It wasn't exact, but it was close enough and bumped an old one at the same time.

Another thread was just posted (i'm not going to point it/them out) that 'I' believe really didn't need to be. There are several other threads on the same topic it could have been added to which would have bumped an older, existing thread, exposing it to newbies and most likely would still receive replies that the OP is looking for. All these new posts just clutter up the entire site.

It was pointed out a while ago by someone when an old thread had been bumped, which i had never seen, that just about every thing you can think of has been covered here on TC before. Besides current events, bars opening, artwork/shows, etc. i'm pretty sure that that statement would be very accurate. If you use the search feature properly and took the time to read through old posts, you'd most likely come across the answer you are looking for. Again, either laziness or people just feeding their OWN egos by receiving replies to a question THEY asked as opposed to doing some furthur study.

P.S. And LUKI, i wasn't aware of how TC is programmed. I know how to rant here, buy mugs of eBay, and search for porn :D, but that's about the extent of my computer knowledge.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2011-09-17 23:09 ]

I agree with all of that and it brings up a point that should be discussed regarding events and the posting of the same event more than once or an "Artist" making multiple posts that are the same in different forums..KNOCK IT OFF! or when you come back to self bump your multiple posts the moderators will have Happily Removed all but one of them! :lol:

On 2011-09-17 22:13, Bora Boris wrote:
The search feature works fine if you take a minute to learn how to use it, Yes it's hard to do a search on the word "Tiki' but if you have any more information than that I haven't really had a problem. This to me is a perfect example of coddling people who have no idea of what this place is about or what they're looking for. If they can't find the search feature and take the time to figure out what is searchable and what isn't they're certainly not going to bother reading "What Tiki Central Isn't" or The Book of Tiki.

So don't even try to make the info available on a single page for the uninitiated ? with all the bitching from some longtime members for the newbies to try using the search function instead of asking the same questions over & over? where is the common sense in that.

All of that information is on the home page if they take the time to look Chuck, I'm not gonna spoon feed someone just so they can spit it back at us. :-?

Now having said that maybe this box could be made a little larger?

That's not so bad.

Thats a start :lol:

I know how to rant here, buy mugs of eBay, and search for porn :D, but that's about the extent of my computer knowledge.

Really, what more would anybody need to know? :wink:

I should say that I wasn't defending anybody who doesn't use the search feature, just adding to the discussion since I am (fortunately or unfortunately) intimately familiar with trying to make database searches work better.

Since the search feature is being discussed I would like to make one point: you go to far back and all the pictures are missing and broken. I understand the technical difficulties that this forum had but it is hard to get excited about researching when I know I have a 50/50 chance of seeing what I am looking for. This is what pops into my head when someone chides a member to use the search button.

gabbahey

p.s. I like that people like lucas try to keep this place focused on mid-century tiki and there is more than enough room to discuss other things on beyond tiki and bilge.

So this thread has me a little torn. It sucks to see a regular contributor get fed up and leave, but on some level I understand it because I come onto Tiki Central to feed my love of mid century poly-pop. While I feel like I am in the same boat as VampiressRN in that I will probably never be a Tikibrainiac, I still want to learn about Tiki as much as I can on here – new or old. When I want to learn about other things that I’m into I go to other related forums and I only want those things to cross over onto Tiki Central if it makes sense. If a thread doesn’t belong here then I would hope that the poster would be notified, educated and if applicable the thread removed. If their posts about Jimmy Buffett keep getting taken down they'll get the picture.

However, I also sympathize with phenix76. I signed up for a TC account 6 or 7 years ago when I found these forums. I was really excited to find a core community of people who were focused on documenting the mid-century Tiki movement. But when I started reading the forums on a daily basis, more often than not I found that there seemed to be this hardcore clique of know-it-alls berating new posters rather than actually educating or politely correcting them about things in which they weren’t as well versed. After a while I just stopped posting and became a lurker for a long time again. I know that this stuff is typical with every forum because people feel safe behind their screen name pseudonym, but the way I always look at it is that I have to deal with enough BS in my normal day and I don’t have a lot of free time, so when I have time to relax and do what I love I like it to be focused on the topic at hand and be as ego free and drama free as possible.

I hear people saying that everyone needs to be tougher on here and get rid of the ‘to each his own’ attitude. And on the one hand I agree – TC needs to stay Tiki and that needs to be policed because if newcomers see posts about reggae in the music section and ‘this great new teriyaki burger at Carl’s Junior’ in the food section they are never going to understand what Tiki is. But on the other hand, I think that this community needs to be willing to accept new people and their initial ignorance or misinformation at the start or else it will just become an old boys club (pardon the phrase ladies) and at some point without new blood to keep things fresh it will wither and die.

All-in-all we should all just enjoy talking about what we love - whether its in a new post or an old post. If someone didn’t use search or didn’t find what they were looking for in a search (which has happened to me in the past) then a simple ‘Hey we actually happen to have a thread about that here: ______’ is a much better way of correcting them than ‘It looks like the new guy doesn’t understand the search feature!’

Tiki people are some of the most fun, creative and inviting people to hang around at bars and events – I’m not sure why that doesn’t always transfer over once everyone gets on here.

BTW - I just saw JOHN-O's post in the 'Does anyone have Tiki Tattoos?' thread correcting Kele on starting a new thread for her Tiki Tattoo - that's totally the way to do it. Thanks for being awesome JOHN-O!

klockwork, yes I concur...

Very well put klockwork. I tend to be a lurker myself but also find that i'm doing less and less of that these days because of a few of the reasons you pointed out.

And JOHN-O must have read my mind. Or my post. :wink:

On 2011-09-16 12:48, lucas vigor wrote:
What is Tiki?

Dude, if you don't know, I'M not gonna tell you...

A famous judge once said this when asked "what is pornography?".

I don't know, but I know it when I see it.

On 2011-09-20 04:05, captnkirk wrote:
A famous judge once said this when asked "what is pornography?".

I don't know, but I know it when I see it.

BINGO!!!

Having read and pondered all that has been written, I think I'm going to crawl back to the food and drink area and stay there. TC is a celebration of both the classic and the modern, so a little conflict is inevitable and desirable and, done correctly, a bit of fun. If someone goes totally off subject, moderate them (politely, but firmly) away. Don't get your heart all busted up over it.

I have studied old Tiki menus and Polynesian cookbooks and I do have an idea of what Tiki food is, but I'm gonna mess with it a little because I'm a chef by profession, not a curator. If anyone feels I cross a line, feel free to correct me and know that I will respond politely no matter how wrong you are. In spite of all the differences, can we agree that one inviolable code of Tiki is hospitality? That's why they put the pu-pus in a lazy susan.