Seems like there is not much going on here as before. Am I imagining it? Is it the fault of "purists" like myself? Should we have welcomed with open arms the carribean buffeteers, party city and Shaka-Brah hawaiiana people?

In my defense, the original concept of tiki as laid down by Sven and others was cool enough for me...I never felt we needed to widen the tent to include all the other stuff...but maybe I was wrong? I am not saying I like any of that stuff....but man, it seems like a ghost town around all parts of this forum except the collecting section. Is it just my imagination?

http://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/sets/set-3/

"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".

[ Edited by: Lucas Vigor 2011-12-27 14:03 ]

SpaceBook - happened. Same effect on Forums all over the web.

Nope, I am seeing it also, very little interaction on TC
low attendance at most events and shows
little support for the Artists and Bands in the scene

There is a small core group that that makes it to everything
they can, you peoples know who you are & represent the true meaning of Tiki.
But with the economy the way it is,I know that is a factor also.

I think TC has been a bit of a Ghost Town as of late, Lucas.
But we don't need to add subjects on the peripheral of Tiki
we just need more positive participation.

If memory serves, it gets this way, between Thanksgiving and new Years, every year. A lot of people are rushing around, and make only hit-and-run visits to T.C. It'll pick back up after the holidays.

Maybe, but the "drought" seems to have begun long before this holiday season began. It's true what CTIT says, though.

I can't help but think that because a lot of us (myself included) stuck to our guns, we chased those that brought (for example) pictures of their party city tiki bar set-up only to be ridiculed. Instead of sticking around and learning something, they took one look and never came back. Can't say as I blame them.

On one hand, I am perfectly happy to keep tiki for myself, and not share with anyone else. But on the other hand, maybe some of those people could have been a fresh infusion? I blame myself, partly.

On 2011-12-19 11:28, AlohaStation wrote:
SpaceBook - happened. Same effect on Forums all over the web.

Vey true. Facebook simply is the much quicker and easier reward. Whenever I post a link to a thread I did on TC on Facebook, I get 10 times more reactions than here.

Popular culture is in an ever-accelerating spiral of quick rewards and fast thrills, becoming more superficial in the process. Beginning with the manic speed of cutting music videos, newer generations were raised on this diet of speedy content and visuals. It is much faster to click on "Like", or write ONE funny line, than do in-depth research and scan images and put a coherent post together. That's falling out of fashion.

Plus, the Tiki Revival has already lasted a long time. After the 90s Tiki underground, the early to mid-2000s saw serious Tiki culture archeology parallel to an explosion of new Tiki art and the Tiki event scene. In the later half of the 2000s the Tiki scene was re-invigorated from the inside by the craft cocktail revival, but the awareness of the art and style aspects leveled out, or even shrank (I am excluding the hardcore followers on TC and elsewhere of course). But 10 years is a pretty long time for any fashion to last. :)

On one hand it is simply not as NEW, and unique as it was when there was little of it around, on the other it takes serious interest to get into it and understand it. While the information is all out there, now more readily available than ever, it's a big heap of stuff to wade through (just take Tiki Central). And the in-availability of my books ain't helping. The lack of a coherent, in-depth context and understanding of its cultural background is leading to a two-dimensional image of Tiki nowadays, which puts it into just another category of the many pop cultures.

For a pop culture to continue to exist, the Tiki revival has simply not been able to prove enough commercial expansion potential. It has established Tiki in the pantheon of popular culture (as opposed to having been completely forgotten before) and will live on for sure, but as a subculture of the ones who love and understand it...and maybe there will be another revival sometime.

Well - there are probably a lot of us tiki voyeurs out their too....watching TC with interest and care, but not active in the discussions.

My kiddlings who are nine and eleven years old, love everything tiki. A new generation!

Here is a photo of their tiki garden... my little bloke designed the surfing tiki god when he was seven, and a local mate had a go at carving it for him. My little girl put image to music with her song Tiki Tiki Wa Wa (may post separately if people are interested). Not too bad for a couple of kids.

We're madly getting ready for a tiki New Year Party, where there will be 30-40 kids (and associated adults) enjoying mocktails and cocktails till dawn or bed - whichever comes first. We will be chanting the Tiki Tiki Wa Wa round the firepit.

Tiki dying, certainly not, at least not in Aust. If anything, its still in revival. TC is probably just in a lull...

Keep up the great posts - love the ecommunity. Love the artists - wish I was artistic. Marketplace is terrific - so sad that postage is prohibitively expensive to Aust.

Hoody

Tis' true, there are many "stealth" Tiki lurkers out there. Just the other day, I was watching the Eddie Murphy "Haunted Mansion" DVD, and there is that scene in the tiki bar....and what a tiki bar it is! Turns out, that was no set, but a tiki bar that is in the home of one of the producers of the film. Now, that person (to my knowledge) has never posted here...there could be many more out there that just never come to this forum.

The more I think about it, yes Lucas it is your fault :lol:

Sven has pointed out some good reasons why popular culture has, to be polite
no sense of history, I have tried to explain to many younger people
what Mid Century Modern design was all about (which is the genesis of my love of Tiki)
only to get empty stares in return, this current generation does not seem to care about much more
then the next iPhone & new flavores of Vodka, Don't get me started.....

We need a "Like" button here so we can all give "Feedback" that is far less than a "Reply". Might give a better hint as to actual participation here.

I think the Tiki nerds are becoming a smaller and smaller group here. It seems Tiki Oasis gets bigger every year, but a nerdy presentation like mine this year probably drew as many people as it would have 5 or 10 years ago.

And it certainly has to do with basic time expenditure. I happen to make it a habit to come here near daily. But I also read a bunch of blogs, and go through FB, etc. daily. All of us nerds are getting more in our lives that make us pick where we spend time.

My idea a bit ago was to repost the nerdy stuff from here on my blog so those with less time for TC can keep up with the hidden gems. There is a FB TC place where people might do the same thing. A nice TC "nerd filter" would help.

I am regualrly shocked when someone like Duke posts here and I think, man, he lives! How did he find that thread?

"Cool and Current" is NOT the answer.

An "Un-cool and Nerdy" list would be better.

And it would help if BoT was still easily available for $25.

It's not only the price, but distribution and exposure. Once it is not on the book table anymore, and not on the shelf either, it has practically disappeared from public awareness. It's publish or perish alright. Meanwhile the publishing world is in turmoil because of threat of electronic media combined with the recession, and it is getting harder and harder to get a book printed. A dear friend of mine just had his new book cancelled, and that after having two successful books published previously with the same publisher. And that book is ready, written and photographed!

I just feel fortunate that I got Tiki Modern out in the nick of time, a while back my publisher told me he never would have put it out in this current climate. We are all contributing to the cultural demise by buying cheaper stuff, using electronic media, and showing we can work for less. These are interesting times.

Regarding Swanky's point on the Book of Tiki availability / affordability, is it possible that it might someday be reincarnated as an eBook?

-Tom

I just like the tactile experience of a real book better - but that is already changing for the new generations of consumers, so I would not be opposed to it.

But: An e-book version would only make sense if I could add all the links I possibly could to each chapter, of unpublished material, of music and video clips - like many of the posts I have done here. But then, that amount of additional work would be staggering, how could that be possibly made worth my time? That is a real dilemma: While the interactive multi-media potential of e-books is seemingly unlimited, they are expected to cost less.

I was just going to bounce the same question TikiTom just asked off Sven
its all about the iPad & Kindle etc. a downloadable version of the BOT
would also add a bit to your income Sven, so a little incentive?

It's all about getting the word out there.

I wouldn't quite say these are interesting times.
I would say they are kinda scary times.
And People are reacting to the times differently.

1.Some are going into Ostrich mode, and sticking their heads in the sand.
(the ones who keep on going out and drinking and partying like there is no tomorrow)

2.Some are going into hibernating mode.
(staying home and hunkering down,aka not doing tiki events,saving money,drinking less)

3. and the 3rd, is kinda in the middle,
   (doing some stuff, and buying some things, but very choosey, aka best bang for the buck)

I say that the economy is partly to do with the downturn of people at some events.
But I also know that some of the old school tiki peeps are not crazy about the influx of tiki newbies,(that may not always be as educated about tiki as the older ones). But there is no doubt, that the rent, and bills are always more important than a silly tiki fad.

As for lack of participation here on TC and other Forums,
Sven said it at least a year ago or more, that Facebook etc.... would be the demise of TC and other forums.
I admit that I am not the most contributing member to TC, in the way that most people think what contributing means. But I do appreciate the work that goes into documenting all of the old stuff. But JP has told me that I contribute in my on way, and that some people appreciate it.
I think its sad that the world is coming to a
(Like and not like button pushing mentality)
I'll admit that the connecting to other people, and the benefit of publicizing stuff on there is an upside.
But the downside is the lack of actual content, and discussion.
I keep hoping that people will get tired of it, and come back here.
But I am losing my faith, and in society in general.

on a darker note,
I wonder if it could be tied into the (supposed end of the world in Dec. 2012)?
and people are just kind of pulling back into their own little shells,
and getting ready.
It seems like the planet at a whole is charging full steam ahead,
into wanting to end itself in a year.

We don't have to prove the prophecy true.
but I think we are to stupid to realize we have a choice in the outcome.
if we can take 5 min. to pull our heads out of our asses.

Happy Holidays everybody.
:wink:
Jeff(btd)

How about just a version of the BOT & Tiki Modern "as is" for download or updated versions
then a Interactive DVD version with all the additional material & links if you want to do the work,later?

The availability of your books Sven has been a issue for sometime
it has been harder to find & cost more then ultra rare mugs if you know what I mean.

On 2011-12-19 14:01, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
The availability of your books Sven has been a issue for sometime
it has been harder to find & cost more then ultra rare mugs if you know what I mean.

Chuck,

I wouldn't say his books are hard to find, but yes the price is going up, but not anything like limited edition mugs, not to mention rare mugs. (The last copy of BoT I saw on eBay went for $52.75.)

Yeah, it does seem there are some things going on currently that are more important and pressing than Tiki for folks. Like pure survival, witness the sale of Tiki mug collections.

The current pig-headed bickering of this country's political establishment, the inability to stem off global warming while the disastrous effects are all-evident...It's enough to make one retreat to your own island.

When looking at the re-invigorating effects of the second World War, it also seems that mankind sometimes needs cataclysmic events to get their asses in gear.

On 2011-12-19 14:01, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
How about just a version of the BOT & Tiki Modern "as is" for download or updated versions
then a Interactive DVD version with all the additional material & links if you want to do the work,later?

The availability of your books Sven has been a issue for sometime
it has been harder to find & cost more then ultra rare mugs if you know what I mean.

That sounds uninspiring and laborious to me. But if someone would come to me and say:
"WE will transfer your books professionally for e-format media distribution and pay you X-amount of the revenue!"

...I would probably not say no.

MikeyTiki,

I have to disagree, it took me two years to get a copy of the BOT (I missed the original release)
I saw prices of $25 to $300 during my search, but every time I ordered it, it was not available.

I know it pops up now and then on eBay at a fair price but that is rare too.
it needs to be available to anyone who would want it now, book version is ideal
but as a digital download if that is the only way Sven can get it back out there, then by all means.

[ Edited by: Chuck Tatum is Tiki 2011-12-19 14:23 ]

Has anyone noticed that the "currently browsing" seems to have increased in the last couple of years?? Maybe by 20%? At least I am pretty sure it has.

I've mostly been a lurker lately due to ADD/OCD & the fast gratification of Fbook. Also, I'm not a "giver" nor attention seeking. Mostly because of ADD/OCD preventing 100% attention to detail or task completion. :)

Ooooo, a shiny penny.....

EDIT: My new years resolution is to contribute more to TC & everything else I enjoy.

Got Greyhounds? Viva Kate!

[ Edited by: Mr. NoNaMe 2011-12-22 07:55 ]

Sven do you retain the digital rights to your books or does your publisher?
I don't believe doing an e-version is really difficult.

I would have to check with my publisher, but I am 99% sure the BOT rights have reverted back to me. And I would have to check if they have any digital plans for my books. They ARE the number 1 in my book for quality and world-wide distribution.

On 2011-12-19 14:12, bigbrotiki wrote:
The current pig-headed bickering of this country's political establishment, the inability to stem off global warming while the disastrous effects are all-evident...It's enough to make one retreat to your own island.

I couldn't agree more.

If you want to do it your self, I found this article about it here:
http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com/2483/how-to-create-an-e-book-and-sell-it-in-14-days-or-less/

An excerpt:
"Somewhere to publish your books to and sell from

• lulu.com – this too is free. This is a printer on demand. Create an account, upload your document and you’re done. You get a page for your book plus a shopping cart, and nothing to set up: lulu handle the sale and the delivery, send you a check quarterly for all your sales and take a tiny cut for their effort. But more importantly, with lulu you retain all the copyright to your work. This is key. I’ve looked at dozens of print on demand services over the years and lulu is the only one I’ve seen that doesn’t attempt to steal your copyright in any way. I’ve been using them for years now and I have only praise for them."

I will stop harping about it now, just wanted to put out the possibility of doing it this way.

Hi

I can say with a certain amount of authority that full--color, coffee table-style books that might appeal to tiki people, and which might have been written by authors well-known to the tiki community, will still be greeted lukewarmly when distributed in an ebook format, no matter how amazing the content might be.

To wit; http://www.bigstonehead.com

I had a hunch, James. Thanks for chiming in pragmatically.

Well, I guess it's time for another "Tiki is dying" thread. No offense Lucas as I you feel you and all other TCers have something important to add as we cannot read each others minds and that is part of the blog process.
I have been a long time lurker and a lover of the great finds, memories, and passion for Tiki and how another somewhat subculture of years ago could be discovered and enjoyed as it had been in the past. I also have been entrenched in the Diner and Restaurants/Roadside Architecture/Roadfood/Mid Century Modern/Cars etc. scene.
I have seen them surge like tidal waves, then just lap at the shore. When that happens i just feel it is like a cycle, however it doesn't make me enjoy it any less in depth. I am always on the HUNT for new info, photos, documentation, and again the memories!
Sometimes when these issues come up I wonder what is the goal? To have more member counts? To make it on a Letterman top Ten? To ring the bell as the hardest hit Past Pop Trend? I am am just glad people like Sven and the large group important founding members worked hard in pushing tiki to the sub conscious. They gave a damn enough to take a risk on the collective passion. I personally thank you all for that.
I love all the forums, but am glued to General Tiki, Locating Tiki, and Collecting Tiki....feeding my new info needs. The artist/carvers/and bar builders are great also....some saved for when we buy the "just right house".
I am just glad TC is "Here" and available 24/7 Thanks for listening to my mini rant.

.....And....I find it ironic that the thought The Book of Tiki on Kindle, because the original BOT is 65.00+.....Lets see first I will need the "Kindle Fire" for 199.00 and then TBOT. Hey !!!! But if you can make some money Sven, I'm all for it. Lets say I love my well worn original.

As much as I'd like to see the BOT and Tiki Modern enter the digital realm, the question of whether it can generate revenue for our esteemed author is another issue entirely. I still prefer, as you say Sven, the tactile feel of paper for books like yours. For just the printed word, however, eBooks are great.

But I think that's quickly changing. eBook readers with larger and higher res screens will be able to handle books like the BOT just fine. B&N's Nook just had this update very recently:

PagePerfect NOOK Books - a whole new category of NOOK Books carefully crafted to keep the precision and beauty of their stunning print versions. Zoom in on pictures, and fluidly scroll through pages of beautiful cookbooks, art books, and more.

Sounds great, doesn't it? My Nook's (and iPad's) screen is too small to do justice to something like the BOT, but I'm sure larger and higher res screens are coming. Frankly, it's the way everything is headed.

Lucas, your thread has turned into a discussion on the availability of Sven's books! It's relevant though and part of the overall equation. I'd just like to add that I have not deserted my love for "purist" (as you call it) tiki. My participation on TC has dwindled to a trickle only because I don't like to post here unless I have something of real value to add. And since our obsession is with things that have their roots in the past, it's getting harder and harder to come up with anything "new" to add to the discussion. So, lack of posts doesn't mean lack of interest. We're still here. :)

I can only speak for myself. Let's just say I was curious if things had seemed awful quiet around here of late, and if others had noticed it to.

I don't really want to see tiki become mainstream...I like the niche group it's in. BUT, I also don't want to see tiki bars close down due to lack of interest. For example, I think it was the surge in tiki enthusiasm that allowed Don's in HB to florish. What happens next?

Yes you are right Lucas

If we don't support our local Tiki establishments they will not be around much longer
That means bodies in wicker chairs with mugs in hand!
I'm going to Don's tonight!

If I lived closer to Don's, I would go a lot more. As it is, Trader Sam's is my place! And not only that, I always recommend it to non-tiki friends!

Pish-posh, I say! I travelled 3000 miles to hang out with you froot-loops, twice this year. I visited Rumpus Room, Tonga Hut, Sven's, Tiki-Ti, Trader Vic's, Damon's, Bahooka, Don The Beachcomber, Trader Sam's, Bowers Museum & Oceanic Arts. I met most of my TC friends in person, and might I say you're all smarter, funnier, better-looking & more charming in person! I've also purchased books, mugs, CDs, shirts, art & lounge supplies from many TC folks. I have every intention of doing the same in 2012. I, for one, have no intention of letting anything die. If the fringe element, pretenders & hobby-of-the-month club folks come & go, so be it. As long as we remember to support the scene & introduce Tiki to new people, we'll be fine. I should be back for a big, squishy group hug the end of May.
Mahalo,
Rick

On 2011-12-19 15:32, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
Yes you are right Lucas

If we don't support our local Tiki establishments they will not be around much longer
That means bodies in wicker chairs with mugs in hand!
I'm going to Don's tonight!

But Lance, for your argument to work you have to go to more tiki bars than just Don's -- or do you just want Don's to survive? And no -- 1 visit to the Tonga Hut for the Grand Re-opening doesn't count! :)

Wow - a heavy and depressing thread to read. Are things so bad? Really?

The purpose of letting you know about my kid's enthusiasm was to show that Tiki - proper Polynesian pop culture tiki - had a future, a strong future, if the leaders in the tiki community can engage and guide the kids: The tikiphiles of tomorrow.

The kids are more savvy than most realise. They enjoy different styles of music, architecture and decor. They genuinely enjoy a swanky lounge bar groove; and they also have a fascination with the South Seas culture and artifacts. With travel so cheap today, many kids have visited the islands and they desperately seek to recreate the same ambience at home.

As older people we might fondly reminisce about the past, and collectibles that have passed. These kids have a vibrant interest in tiki that is reflective of enthusiasm that hit America during the post war era. This vibrant interest needs to be encouraged/directed so that it blossoms into something special.

However, in the absence of available guidance from artists and enthusiasts, the energy of these kids will either wane or be redirected. In desperation they will resort to bright plastic tiki parties... never enjoying the depth of the true Polynesian pop tiki culture.

I agree with many of the sentiments in the thread - information on tiki culture needs to be available to this new generation of enthusiasts, in a format that they use. I love my hardcopy BOT, but kids don't have coffee tables, and they rarely read hardcopy books anymore. Its so hard for them to emulate a culture if we don't expose them to it.

Its difficult to read a "doom and gloom" thread without injecting some enthusiasm about the future. We need to embrace the mocktail and coloring book crowd, and then grow them from "Mocktails to Cocktails", from "Tiki Coloring Books to Tiki Art".

If we want the true Polynesian pop tiki culture to grow, then we have an imperative to expose the work of Tiki Icons to kids now, so that in 10 years there is a whole new generation of young adults looking to enjoy our tiki bar culture.

If a hardback book of good quality (i.e.; a Taschen Book)sits on a coffee table, there is nothing like it! THAT is why The Book of Tiki and Tiki Modern should not yet be available in electronic format...just sayin'. This is also why Taschen continues to be successful as a publisher. Thanks Sven for your wonderful contributions...you have made a difference in many peoples lives.

On 2011-12-19 17:41, PolynesianPop wrote:

On 2011-12-19 15:32, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
Yes you are right Lucas

If we don't support our local Tiki establishments they will not be around much longer
That means bodies in wicker chairs with mugs in hand!
I'm going to Don's tonight!

But Lance, for your argument to work you have to go to more tiki bars than just Don's -- or do you just want Don's to survive? And no -- 1 visit to the Tonga Hut for the Grand Re-opening doesn't count! :)

Yes Poly-Popster we do need more Tonga Hut time indeed, you sir are one of those I spoke about
with the true spirit of Tiki, hoody, I like your enthusiasm! Big Bad Kahuna, you do bring hope this Tiki X-Mas!
because if a Tiki Torch can be seen from that snow covered porch of yours in Boston, then that hope still burns!

Merry Tiki-Mas, little Sven, Lucas & all of Tiki Central, please don't ban me next year!
CTiT
:lol: :lol: :lol: and a :drink:

Is a slowing-down of posts, etc. on TC indicative of an end of tiki fandom? I don't think so at all. Not only for the reasons people said that winter is typically a stay indoors, not so tropical time of year where we have to focus on other things, but let's think of how quickly Tiki Central has grown. There are so many educated people in here posting all the time and the history to this point of tiki is only so long. We were going to run out of (or slow down in) history eventually, and maybe this is the beginning. There's just not much new left for us to learn?

I can't speak for events and people going out to the bars because, where I am, the nearest tiki bar is 50 miles away and in another town. It's hard to visit. But, if the posting of history and asking of questions on Tiki Central has slowed, don't think of it as reduced interest. Think of it as a rousing success. We've (you've) put so much info into this one place that everyone knows where to go to get all they need.

I don't post much because I have nothing new or interesting to say. Someone else has said it better elsewhere. So, is this evidence of a reduced interest in tiki. Oh hell no. I just read and learn from those who came before me. And I assume THAT is more of a reason than any scary downfall in interest.

On 2011-12-19 14:42, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
...- lulu.com – this too is free. This is a printer on demand...

I just self printed a single book with Lulu, it should be here this week. It will be interesting to see the quality. I think a 370 page book cost me about $90. Of course smaller books and/or more volume costs less

oops!

[ Edited by: MadDogMike 2011-12-19 21:40 ]