The "Imitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery" thread

Throughout history, its long been established that one artist's work often becomes inspiration for another's. Sometimes though, it's just a shameless copy. Is that bad? When it takes money out of the originator's pocket, I say yes. Many tiki artists are pretty good at acknowledging their creative sources but some folks out there not so much. I realize this is a topic that could be discussed endlessly and I don't expect anything to be resolved here so I'm not going to try.

Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread for juxtaposing works contrasted with their original inspiration.

• fez monkey

Trader Sam's in Anaheim used to use the the Squid-designed Fourtune Fire Bowl.

Now they use this.

• fm

TikiFarm's Mahiumi mug.

Another mug now available on eBay

• fm

do tiki artists register their works typically with the U.S. copyright office?

that second example is clearly infringement.

There is a seller on Amazon that is copying Tiki Farm designs and doing his own paint scheme on them. The funny thing is the mugs look decent but the paint is a real shitty job. Infact that mahiumi mug pictured above might be one of them. My buddy showed me and I think Holden is aware of it so I dont know if he took any action or not. But there will always be someone out there trying to copy another artists work for financial gain. Doug Dorr just had a problem with this. Its not cool but just the way it is.

[ Edited by: forgotten tikiman 2012-08-26 15:04 ]

sadly enough, there are shameless individuals out there that have no qualms about stealing other people's ideas.

Hell, 80% of the tikis carved here in Florida are copies of Wayne Coombs stuff...

And I think Wayne said he taught at least one of the guys how to carve.
To teach a guy how to carve, then have that guy go out and sell your style
of carving in the place where you live.
Well that's just triple wrong.
And realy Wanye did not get the props he deserved in the Tiki world.
He had been carving forever.

I wonder how many of those carvers who were taught or influenced by Wayne are here on TC today? And I wonder if they would share their thoughts on what ethic they follow as a result of Wayne's influences? I would guess that they would each, as artists, somehow make the efforts to differentiate their styles sufficiently from Wayne's. I know we have a carver here in Jacksonville Beach who does a wonderful job with ornate Polynesian-style carvings which are clearly in a different style from Wayne's.

I think that the Florida Mai Tiki imitation carvers were/are its own breed, not so much "artistes" and educated Tiki revivalist as you can find here, but folks like nursery/beach hut suppliers, that did it for the buck, so you won't find any ethical tears there. And they usually just stuck to the most obvious grinning teeth/pineapple head pattern - which, according to Wayne were not his own favorite, but the best selling items he himself repeated endlessly for that reason.

Also: The "stealing" of designs happened since the inception of Tiki, with carvers competing for jobs, and Bill Westernhaver employees starting their own Witco-like lines. I am not saying it's OK, but just that it comes with the territory

Well, as I said, it's not going to get resolved here and the line between being inspired by something and ripping it off is sometimes a hazy one and often in the eye of the beholder.

I thought it'd be good to have a thread where we can can post a visual comparison between examples A and B and at least make people aware of the lineage.

• fm

After some reflection (and I nice note from someone who pointed out that I might have offended someone) I guess I could have been clearer. My intent wasn't to equate "inspired" with "ripping off" and if folks got that from what I wrote I apologize. There's a wide spectrum between the two but they are on the same scale.

It's inevitable that ideas will be built upon as people draw upon the canon of what's come before. Sometimes a tiki carving becomes a drawing in a menu which becomes an icon on a neon sign which becomes a mug which becomes a tattoo. What's merely inspired by something earlier and what's a shameless ripoff? Everyone will have to make their own call on that. It's hard for anyone to judge the intent of the artist or how a project developed unless they tell you, just the finished work.

I'd like this thread to be a place where we can see the path a design takes, for better or for worse.

• fm

One of the 2 big Trader Vic's Portland tikis

The Munktiki mug version of the same design

(I have one and love it)

• fm

"Throughout history, its long been established that one artist's work often becomes inspiration for another's. Sometimes though, it's just a shameless copy. Is that bad?"*

Yes, if the intent of the copy is to pass it off as your original. The eBay mug above is clearly a lousy copy of the original.

If the work is inspired or influenced by another's it gets a little harder as to whether one should point a finger accusingly or gesture referentially.

The Trader Sam's mug above was possibly inspired by the Squid design but the end result is so different that I wouldn't say it was a copy.

If the copy is done for personal reasons (either "I can do it better!" or "I can't afford an original T. Kee Klishae painting, so I'll make my own.") I see nothing wrong with that other than a complete lack of creativity or imagination.

When working in a style such as Tiki, which takes its source inspiration from a particular area and/or era, similarities of design and imagery are going to happen. Especially if you factor in shared backgrounds and influences of the artists.

I've seen people claiming "Whooze Itt is ripping of Soin So!" because of similarities in the work. But when I look at the same work I think "Whooze Itt and Soin So obviously share an appreciation for early Whatsis Name's illustrations and Cartoonamajig Studios animation."

Any decent artist or crafter will cite another's work as inspiration if they know they've been inspired by it. Unconscious influence is real, creative types take in all sorts of information that they're consciously unaware of.

There is also the possibility that an artist or crafter didn't realize a piece which inspired him/her isn't some old bit of Tiki junk or ancient cultural item but is the work of another artist. Especially on the Internet people are pretty lousy about attributing work they use or share with others.

I always try to cite my source for an image or quote and to name the creator of any artwork I post. But I'm pretty rare in that regard, even among creative types. If the people who create work themselves don't take the time to give credit to other artists and crafters it's highly unlikely anyone else is going to bother doing it.

"Imitation is the sincerest proof of plagiarism!"

...from the late, great, Wayne Coombs.

Also from the late, great, Wayne Coombs. :)

Throughout history, its long been established that one artist's work often becomes inspiration for another's. Sometimes though, it's just a shameless copy. Is that bad? When it takes money out of the originator's pocket, I say yes. Many tiki artists are pretty good at acknowledging their creative sources but some folks out there not so much. I realize this is a topic that could be discussed endlessly and I don't expect anything to be resolved here so I'm not going to try.

Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread for juxtaposing works contrasted with their original inspiration.

• Kon-Hemsby

What a great thread idea Kon Hemsby!!

Ha-ha-ha! :)

But seriously folks, I think there is also some differentiation when changing from one creative medium to another (like the TV tiki vs the Munktiki mug). I would definitely call that inspiration to create a mug in the design where there was none previously (if that's really the case).

I have no examples. Carry on.

On 2012-09-19 20:11, RevBambooBen wrote:
"Imitation is the sincerest proof of plagiarism!"

...from the late, great, Wayne Coombs.

http://www.palmtiki.com

A couple of recent finds that I believe also fit into this category.

I've picked up other cast concrete Tiki hangings but this is the first time I've found what looks to me like what someone borrowed the art from to "create" their own art.

That's Big Al's work, he does like to go to the vintage source materials
to get that classic tiki look.

Actually the true name of the Mahiumi mug is Mahinui. It was made for a resort in Hawaii called Mahnui Rainforest Weddings. There was overstock, so Tiki Farm changed the name to Mahiumi, and sold them, but the name on the bottom of the mugs actually say Mahinui.

[ Edited by: mermaid1111 2014-09-13 13:20 ]

On 2014-09-13 13:14, mermaid1111 wrote:
Actually the true name of the Mahiumi mug is Mahinui. It was made for a resort in Hawaii called Mahnui Rainforest Weddings. There was overstock, so Tiki Farm changed the name to Mahiumi, and sold them, but the name on the bottom of the mugs actually say Mahinui.

[ Edited by: mermaid1111 2014-09-13 13:20 ]

I'm wondering??where did you hear this?

[ Edited by: ron-tiki 2014-09-13 20:26 ]

ron-tiki, it's on Ooga-Mooga.

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/mug.cgi?mode=view&mug_id=4214&ind_mug_id=52801

and

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/mug.cgi?mode=view&mug_id=4214

Good stuff. Mahalo tiki Longbeach!!

Good stuff. Mahalo tiki Longbeach!!