Paper vs Plastic

There have been many vigorously debated topics on the straw here. One debates the merits of using a straw vs no-straw. Or even a stimulating discussion on the effects of taste with the change in straw diameter. But none devoted to paper vs plastic debate, which is timely since many cities, including my hometown of Miami Beach, are looking at plastic straw bans. What are the public bar mixologists going to do? Here's a link to some discussion on the matter:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-05/the-fight-for-paper-straws-is-getting-fierce-in-new-york-bars

[ Edited by: SobeTiki 2018-06-23 06:28 ]

I honestly don't know if they plan to actually ban plastic straws here but a lot of the bars that i frequent have already started ditching them in favor of metal ones. No doubt the initial outlay to purchase metal straws is not going to be cheap, but, even compensating for those that are stolen, i'm sure it would be much cheaper in the long term not having to constantly replenish stock the way you'd have to using plastic ones, although you're still going to have to pay someone to clean them.

As for paper straws, i hate them with a passion. I don't know if the quality of them has improved but years ago i used to go to a world renowned restaurant here that tries to be as environmentally friendly as possible and they always served drinks with paper straws which were useless. You'd only get half way through the drink and then have to ask for another one because the first one you had been using had just turned all soft at the bottom and become useless. I understand that the paper is more friendly to the environment than the plastic is but it seems pretty stupid when you are going through twice as many.

My biggest question is, and one you never see being talked about, is what is the impact on the environment when it comes to making paper straws? They are still a disposable product which are not going to be recycled. What's the carbon footprint they leave behind to make them? I'm sure the amount of water used to make them would be a LOT more than the water required to make and wash metal ones because metal ones are not being thrown out with every drink and need to be replaced. And sure the trees the paper comes from can be replanted but i guess it would be safe to say that we are cutting down trees at a rate that is faster than they can grow.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2018-06-23 06:48 ]

Paper straws suck!

It's good that people that make these decisions have all the really big problems solved so they can move on to managing every single thing we use like even our light bulbs and straws.

These are easy issues for a "Leader" to take on and say "see look at the good things I do"
Like the flag burring issue years ago.

What about the many, MANY things made of plastic like say cell phones heck you change those every four years or so.

They don't even want you to repair your home appliances it's a throw away society now.
Straws? really, is that a big deal?
My mower is 25 years old!
They have to really work at making things crap out as soon as they do now.

Heck separate straws and mold them into those new phones you must have just so you can get the latest stupid app, game, photo BS.

How many times have you seen them tear down a Wendy's and build a new Wendy's right across the street.

People need to start getting upset about the real issues.

Here get mad about this....

"We throw away one hundred million cell phones a year in America" In America, what do you think that number is over the world.

How many F-ing straws can you make out of that many phones? Or even computers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25jyPURkJVM

My brother who is "green" laughs at us because we keep ours cars for 20 years or more.
He gets a new car every four years or so, but hey he recycles cans so he's a good guy saving the planet.

He uses "green" lawn products and flicks his cigarette butts out on the ground for the 15 years he's been smoking.

He likes the idea of electric cars but does not care that electric cars are mostly powered by electricity made with coal.

What a sham.

Just saw a commercial for those Keurig K-Cup® plastic coffee maker cups.
Now coffee used to be made in a pot with a reusable metal thing that you washed and used over and over.
Then it went to a biodegradable filter.
The cream came in a glass pitcher at our restaurant (Washable) and at home it came in a glass milk jug that became waxed paper also biodegradable.

Those things are all PLASTIC now.
Straws, THATS the problem?

Water now comes in plastic jugs and bottles, can you even think of our mom and dad of old BUYING water! that stuff came from the tap.

Man so much of what we make is plastic, cars are so much plastic now, furniture, lights, pop bottles, heck lots of plastic things are new inventions we did not even have say 40 years ago.

I know this is a bunch of old man ranting to many of you but just think for yourself and look at all the info and make REAL changes to REALLY fix the problems we face.

Plastic is good and bad, I loved the old steel and chrome cars, man a chrome bumper, awesome!
And when they were done crush em and make a new car.
Heck those chrome parts are so cool you can sell them over and over till they are just no longer of use.

The more "green" people say they are the more total BS that is.

That being said, these look pretty good in a drink:

The green ones in your pic are sold/mfg. as Bamboo Paper Straws by Kikkerland. My wife luvs em. They do look cool in a gussied up drink. Work well for one tall drink. Most of our straws are plastic. I don’t use any-paper or plastic.
Cheers

[ Edited by: nui 'umi 'umi 2018-06-24 22:15 ]

I do admit to buying like 8 or more different styles of the paper straws mostly to use for decoration.
They seem to have a style for every occasion.

Learned to dislike drinking out of paper straws at Teds Montana grill.
The paper straws there don't even have a coating like some paper straws do.

Ted Turner must feel much better about himself by saving the planet by using paper straws in his restaurants.
As he sits in one of his nineteen ranches, nineteen ranches for one man!
Now that's conservation thank you for holding back and not buying thirty Ted.

I do like their burgers though.

It's the hypocrisy that gets me the most, more than the whole green issue really.

What do you think the carbon footprint of say Ted Turner or Al Gore is, if we all lived like them this plant would be in way bigger trouble.

"How many ranches does Mr. Turner own?
Mr. Turner owns nineteen ranches – sixteen in the western U.S. and three in Argentina. Mr. Turner’s western U.S. ranches are located in six states (CO, KS, MT, NE, NM, SD)"

"The gores bills average out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, and $31,512 in 2005."

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2018-06-25 04:47 ]

On 2018-06-24 10:57, spy-tiki wrote:
That being said, these look pretty good in a drink:

I was given a box of these "green bamboo" paper straws as a gift. They work fine for 5 minutes and then start to get soggy and break down. I really hate 'em despite the fact that they look cool and are more biodegradeable.

A number of years ago, when I was starting my home bar, I bought these (below) thick silicone straws at Wally World. Mine are brighter colors than those shown below. They work really well, but they do feel a bit unusual in the mouth because they are larger than normal straws and they are soft. You get over that weirdness pretty quickly. And they don't clink your teeth or get cold like stainless straws do. I like 'em for taller drinks. I have not yet cut any down for smaller glassware. Just like stainless straws, these can be run through the dishwasher to be easily and effectively washed and sanitized.

One more comment - I have heard from a couple experienced bartenders around me that one of the purposes of using the skinny straws in cocktail glasses is to help the drinker hold the ice in place when tipping up the glass. It's not always 100% effective, but is seen as better than nothing for the customer enjoying an iced drink who doesn't want a mess in their lap. While I definitely think there is some truth in that, we tiki folks may require straws more than others because if we frequently serve our iced drinks in hurricane and collins and "bamboo" glassware and in our generally tall tiki mugs.

On 2018-06-24 10:57, spy-tiki wrote:
That being said, these look pretty good in a drink:

We shifted to using the green bamboo paper straws earlier this year. I was wary for all the stated reasons, but they hold up well enough for one drink. More than one drink and they do start to break down, but when I'm serving guests I've always given then a new straw with a new cocktail, even when we just had plastic straws. We went through a bunch on Saturday and our guests thought they were cool. Nobody was really nursing their drinks, so straw breakdown wasn't an issue. It just comes down to your personal needs.

I've looked at the metal straws available, but they're just to garish to fit in with the tiki vibe. Maybe once they start making them in more subdued colors...

I have real bamboo reusable drinking straws and they work great as well as looking good. You gotta be careful when cutting them down to fit smaller glasses, though.

Also have some of the silicone. They work great and once you get past that initial mouth feel, they work great as well.

I'm also involved with a Kickstarter for edible straws. I will definitely let everyone know how those turn out!

Do you have the link for that Kickstarter TikiHardBop?

And here's another option that hasn't been mentioned, especially for those that don't like metal ones. These are a few different styles of reusable acrylic straws that i have.

There's also glass straws.
Granted they are probably better suited for home use but if you know you're going out, just throw one or two in a pocket or purse and you're good to go.
Easily rinsed in a glass of water between drinks.
I bought some for my wife a couple of years ago and even after dropping one on a concrete floor (without the straw breaking), they look like the day they were opened.

Here is the link:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1530128773/lolistraw-by-loliware

Pixy stix :)

Or real bamboo.

Don't really use many straws for our Mai Tais especially.
It takes your nose too far away from the mint.

Coon Tiki was a carving event in Tenn....

Ugh. I totally understand why paper straws are used instead of plastic. I consider myself an environmentalist, but I HATE paper straws. They get soggy and then wilt or break in half. Not to mention the taste of cardboard with the drink.

Interesting about the silicone straws. I think I'll order a set and try them out. Every time I open the drawer to get a plastic straw I feel a little bad about something so disposable after a use. Even the swizzle sticks I have can be washed and used again.

Not giving up the paper umbrellas. Sorry Earth.

On 2018-06-29 20:19, Pelorus wrote:
Not giving up the paper umbrellas. Sorry Earth.

No worries if they're made in the US. I live in a huge pulp, paper, and cardboard producing region of the county. We have millions of acres of pine trees grown to make paper and other wood products. Every tree which is cut down to make something generates a new order to plant a new tree in its place. Paper product raw materials are renewable. That's how the mills stay in business over the long term. Sure, making things from trees takes energy, just like making things out of plastic does. But the raw materials are re-planted and re-grown to be harvested over something like a 15 or 20 year cycle.

But, realistically, paper umbrellas are very likely made overseas where the same practices are not necessarily employed. Now I feel stupid for posting this. Ha...

Strawless in Seattle
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/seattle-becomes-first-major-u-s-city-to-ban-straws/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fab7a1ed1258

I recently found these straws made from stalks of grass. They're fully biodegradable, won't get soft in a drink and don't have leave a taste. If you're looking for a disposable straw, this is a great option. Of course there are always metal straws, which is what I use most. You just have to make sure to clean them really well.

https://www.haystraws.com

On 2018-07-02 04:14, robojoe wrote:
I recently found these straws made from stalks of grass. They're fully biodegradable, won't get soft in a drink and don't have leave a taste. If you're looking for a disposable straw, this is a great option. Of course there are always metal straws, which is what I use most. You just have to make sure to clean them really well.

https://www.haystraws.com

Excellent find. Paper straws just aren't an option for me because they are so distracting to the drinker as they get soggy. These sound like they are much more durable without being distracting.

On 2018-06-27 05:42, tikiskip wrote:

Don't really use many straws for our Mai Tais especially.
It takes your nose too far away from the mint.

For that exact reason I use straws in two lengths -- "shorties" and "longies" -- I came up with those names myself......

On 2018-06-30 04:51, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2018-06-29 20:19, Pelorus wrote:
Not giving up the paper umbrellas. Sorry Earth.

No worries if they're made in the US.

But, realistically, paper umbrellas are very likely made overseas where the same practices are not necessarily employed. Now I feel stupid for posting this. Ha...

When my current bag runs out, I'll be mindful of looking at production origin. Not sure where the ones I have are from.

On 2018-07-02 09:51, Pelorus wrote:
When my current bag runs out, I'll be mindful of looking at production origin. Not sure where the ones I have are from.

Cool, no worries. Fortunately tiki drink making is not the biggest contributor to the global plastic waste stream because we have a strong tendency to use natural leafy and vegetable garnishes with toothpicks and bamboo skewers to hold it all together. Our garnishes are sometimes much more challenging than the drinks themselves.

And another article, but this time claiming that plastic straws are not as bad as cigarette butts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/plastic-straws-cigarette-butts-are-the-worst-ocean-pollutants/ar-BBMut4b

On 2018-08-27 12:23, AceExplorer wrote:
And another article, but this time claiming that plastic straws are not as bad as cigarette butts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/plastic-straws-cigarette-butts-are-the-worst-ocean-pollutants/ar-BBMut4b

And it's very difficult to drink a cocktail through a cigarette butt.

On 2018-08-27 16:36, arriano wrote:

And it's very difficult to drink a cocktail through a cigarette butt.

:D I almost choked on my Mai Tai when I read this.

I haven't found any paper straws that I particularly care for yet, I'm considering going to stainless steel, although that sort of kills the aesthetic a bit.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F29PTBC/?coliid=I9O2KOQ4RSFDV&colid=3SK1ZUA6XW4PX&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

I bought stainless straws a few weeks ago, two different brands, and found that they are made surprisingly narrower than the straws we are accustomed to. I think there will come a time when fatter straws will be made available.

On 2018-10-15 12:10, AceExplorer wrote:
I bought stainless straws a few weeks ago, two different brands, and found that they are made surprisingly narrower than the straws we are accustomed to. I think there will come a time when fatter straws will be made available.

You can get really wide stainless straws meant for boba tea (bubble tea). Some of them come up to .5" / 12mm wide.

The only problem there is you're probably going to be gulping down your drink meant to be sipped. LOL

Luckily, not all of them are quite as wide as that.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=stainless+steel+straws+boba

Thank you, I did a lot of searches and never saw those, so maybe I made a mistake and only saw the lower priced and skinnier ones. Dang... See what trouble I get into when I stay sober? Cheers!

Duke’s in Huntington Beach, California served my wife a Mojito with a paper straw that had the feel of medium cardboard. The Mojito outlasted the straw. The bamboo looking paper straws that we use at home are good for one drink.
Cheers

Last week's Imbibe post RIP, Plastic Drinking Straw still makes me wonder if news of the plastic straw's death has been greatly exaggerated.

I was just looking at The Essential Bartender's Guide by Robert Hess and saw this in the section explaining cobblers:

So looks like we're going back to the future with hay straws.

Oh, and I rediscovered an old thread that Sven started about straw diameters, which made me wonder how the original (and now, revived) rye/hay straws' diameters compared to that of current narrow cocktail straws/stirrers (which are my preference). Luckily, it looks like Chip and Andy addressed it already, too.