Unpopular Tiki Opinions

Sounds good Tiki-Atari the Vendors are about 50% or better as a draw for these events in my book.

My Dad always said to "think about what the other guy is going through" That would help this world a lot if we all did that more.

As one himself, maybe Tik-Atari can enlighten us about the piles of cash the event organizers make, which seems to be the prevailing belief among most vendors.

"which seems to be the prevailing belief among most vendors."

I don't think they all make a lot but would guess some do.
BUT do you think $400.00 is too much as a fee to vend all weekend at say Hukilau?

Some, a very few, get a free ride as in tickets and room maybe a plane ticket if you are somebody they really want to an event.

But Joe schmoe vendor has to pay lots to stay at the event/tickets, booth fee, food, gas, costs of goods heck you don't have much time if any to enjoy the event as you are part of the attraction as a vendor.

But if it gets too costly and not worth it the good vendors will dry up and you will be stuck with people selling Hot Sauces.

THAT"S when the vendor prices will drop.

On 2019-10-27 15:31, Jürka wrote:
3. Crushed Ice
It's a "must be" of crushed ice for tiki drinks. But at home I always use only cubes. Why? At first it got very annoying to crush the ice and I don't have ice crusher. But after a while I found out that crushed ice dilutes the drink too heavily. In any bar, good one or bad one, I get the drink, it might be very good... for at first... but second half of the drink tastes like flavored water. I drink too slow? Well... Well-well, maybe. But cubes are doing their job perfectly. There's no problem to shake the liquid ice-cold. The liquid stays with cubes ice-cold till it's done and gone into my body. I see no problems to use cubes instead of crushed ice... as long as we are not talking about filling the glass to the top for a visual reasons. My small glasses are in matching size for 4...6 oz of drink and therefor it's always filled with a tastiness from top to the bottom end. There's still dilution, but just as much as it should be, does not ruin the drink.

To each their own, to be sure. I won't take issue with your personal preference, enjoy what you enjoy. However, I would counter that tiki drinks which specifically call for crushed ice in the recipe, it is there for good reason. One of the important reasons is the proper amount of dilution. Imo, the problem too often with tiki drinks that are made with crushed ice is that they haven't been given a truly proper shake. A well and vigorously shaken drink not only dilutes, aerates, and combines the ingredients, but also rapidly chills the drink - so much so that the remaining ice melts much, much more slowly. It makes a tremendous difference in the quality of the drink and how long you can enjoy the drink after it is served. A poorly shaken drink (often starting out with not enough crushed ice) quickly goes downhill as the remaining ice melts faster and ending up as the flavored water nobody wants.

[ Edited by: Dr. Coruba 2020-02-21 06:44 ]

On 2020-02-21 06:43, Dr. Coruba wrote:

On 2019-10-27 15:31, Jürka wrote:
3. Crushed Ice
It's a "must be" of crushed ice for tiki drinks. But at home I always use only cubes. Why? At first it got very annoying to crush the ice and I don't have ice crusher. But after a while I found out that crushed ice dilutes the drink too heavily. In any bar, good one or bad one, I get the drink, it might be very good... for at first... but second half of the drink tastes like flavored water. I drink too slow? Well... Well-well, maybe. But cubes are doing their job perfectly. There's no problem to shake the liquid ice-cold. The liquid stays with cubes ice-cold till it's done and gone into my body. I see no problems to use cubes instead of crushed ice... as long as we are not talking about filling the glass to the top for a visual reasons. My small glasses are in matching size for 4...6 oz of drink and therefor it's always filled with a tastiness from top to the bottom end. There's still dilution, but just as much as it should be, does not ruin the drink.

To each their own, to be sure. I won't take issue with your personal preference, enjoy what you enjoy. However, I would counter that tiki drinks which specifically call for crushed ice in the recipe, it is there for good reason. One of the important reasons is the proper amount of dilution. Imo, the problem too often with tiki drinks that are made with crushed ice is that they haven't been given a truly proper shake. A well and vigorously shaken drink not only dilutes, aerates, and combines the ingredients, but also rapidly chills the drink - so much so that the remaining ice melts much, much more slowly. It makes a tremendous difference in the quality of the drink and how long you can enjoy the drink after it is served. A poorly shaken drink (often starting out with not enough crushed ice) quickly goes downhill as the remaining ice melts faster and ending up as the flavored water nobody wants.

[ Edited by: Dr. Coruba 2020-02-21 06:44 ]

+1 to this. I can make a Mai Tai or Zombie with a pile of crushed ice, and by the time I'm finished there's still at least 1/2 a glass or more of ice left.
Of course my go-to rule is "Shake until the shaker frosts over".

peanut butter whiskey goes great with Plantation rum, pineapple and orange juice with a squeeze of cream of coconut.

Okay, just remember you asked for it! Most Tiki cocktail recipes in American books are just WAY TOO SWEET! The use of Simple Syrup AND Orange Curaçao in the one drink for instance? Unless you carry an emergency dose of insulin with you, please just use one! And cut even that back a little if you value your teeth!

Oh, and surfboards are NOT "Tiki"!

I think those Chinese hanging lantern cocktail picks look really dopey, are terrible cocktail accents for most mugs, and there was probably good reason they were off the market for so long.

Well damn I kinda like sweet drinks and those Chinese picks.

Heck the tiki bars had Chinese food why not Chinese picks? But then you can't put a pick in a Budweiser.

Trader Vics had a bit of Chinese type decor too, heck many of the tiki joints did.

To each his own I guess.

But then you can't put a pick in a Budweiser.

Order a Bud Light at Trader Sam's and they just might do that, after publicly shaming you in a kindhearted manner.

I don't hate those picks because they're Chinese lanterns. I just find them dopey looking (oh wow, you glued two cocktail umbrella tops together), and they get in the way.

[ Edited by Iolani on 2022-08-24 08:46:38 ]

If your tiki drink is too sweet, you are making it wrong....

[ Edited by TikiHardBop on 2022-08-24 13:16:56 ]

I was NEVER a fan of what was called "Flair" bartending where the "barman" juggled and spun bottles around and generally showed off. (Yes, just like in that truly abysmal 1998 movie "Cocktail". NO. DO. NOT. WATCH. IT. EVER!) Invariably you ended up with a crap drink where the proportions were all WAY out!

My usual reply when the act started? "If you want a tip just mix the drink and get it right please. If I wanted a damn circus act I'd ask for it!"

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2022-09-11 21:54:28 ]

Jamaican music at a tiki party.

So....what about flamingos then? Just askin'....

You know... I've got a couple of plastic flamingos wearing Leis in my Tiki Room, but when I first made my Tiki room I was going for a bit more kitsch like the poster I have hanging up of Tikis playing poker. But then again, I also have some amazing quality stuff, like a super detailed carving by Tikimecula and a Tiki by Ken Pleasant that has to be one of the best pieces he's ever done. In contrast, I also have some Ken Ruzic art.... 'nuff said.

But, no parrots!! That's going too far.

My unpopular Tiki opinion: I wouldn't mind an event where there was no booze and nothing but some entertaining/educational lectures or workshops to learn how to make things (jewelry, bar decor, etc)

Sounds like the daytime Tiki Oasis seminars.

Most of the seminars nowadays all include sponsored cocktails. I'd love a booze-free event. Haha

Here's my unpopular Tiki opinion:

I'm not 100% crazy about the music of Martin Denny. Why? He features a lot of traditional Asian (or traditional Asian inspired) music and sonically that's really not my cup of tea, not to mention that particular genre of music doesn't sound very Tiki to me. Of course he does have plenty of amazing material but I'll probably unload the small collection of vinyl I have by him. I'll take traditional Hawaiian music a la Webley Edwards/Hawaii Calls any day.

[ Edited by donhonyc on 2023-01-20 19:39:21 ]

[ Edited by donhonyc on 2023-01-20 20:17:38 ]

Sure to be shot down but I happen to think Shag is NOT Tiki. Fun yes, (and I quite like the work too) but for me it's not Tiki per se.

As someone who was regularly redacted & eventually scrubbed from the original version of this website, I'll toss out a few opinions which, at least in the old days, would automatically have been regarded as unpopular.

98% of everything that Revivalists like Sven & Swanky say is true, and the leftover 2% isn't untrue, just the exceptions that prove the rule. Without the original truth, we have no way to discern what is patently false: but what is true and false in popular culture depends largely on context.

Yes, Rat Fink and monsters aren't Tiki, but I have seen home Tiki bars that tastefully incorporated elements of it into the real thing, and it works. Fezzes, surf music and Elvis movies aren't as originally Tiki as exotica, authentic craft cocktails and Polynesian carvings, but they are historically & aesthetically adjacent. Their significance lies in the expansion of cultural awareness & enjoyment that are out there to be discovered by the newbie.

Having assembled & curated my former home (incorporating The Deep South Pacific Room) near Athens, Georgia which was Tikified inside & out, I subsequently disassembled my collection and sold the house after about a decade. This was due to several factors, but one primary reason was that when you're immersed in the exotic 24/7, it ceases to be exotic. I think that's why Tiki events and new bar visits inspire us so much: they're exotic because unfamiliar and new to our experience.

Jimmy Buffett shouldn't be blamed for the bad taste & behavior of Parrotheads any more than Jesus should be blamed for Christian hypocrites. It was Hukilau attendees & neophytes who were drunkenly talking over Robert Drasnin's music that opened my eyes to the fact that it's people who make the Tiki experience either enjoyable or otherwise. Those who lack a knowledge of the authentic and a discernment of quality are the folks who need to stow the "Tiki is whatever..." ignorance and maybe read a book or two. Only by tasting an original recipe cocktail can most of us learn to identify a cheap imitation, and for that we need research and documentation.

I have had less-than-enjoyable exchanges with the Tiki elite (at least in their own minds), and they can be just as tedious as dilettantes. I think the difference between good Tiki and the fake is the difference between good personalities and fake: context and character make a world of difference. Where people are concerned, the most enjoyable ones are inevitably those who don't take themselves too seriously. Those who are least inclined toward political correctness, arrogance and extreme behaviors are far likelier to be enjoyable drinking & dining companions, the very essence of mahalo.

Tiki old and new is a vast umbrella, and can accommodate a wide variety of tastes & influences. But there is a core gospel to be adhered to, and it has been elucidated to us by the Revivalist work of Sven Kirsten, as well as by those who preceded him in the original iteration of the 1950s & 1960s. Recipes, trends and times change, and Tiki is tough enough to change with them, but only if its (imitative) origins aren't adulterated and Shanghaid by those who only want to distort it in order to make a buck.

[ Edited by WhiteDevilPress on 2023-01-22 10:35:54 ]

Very well said WDP. Fortunately, almost all of my interactions with the ohana over the years have been pleasant. I've never met Sven in real life, but have interacted with Swanky a bit at the Hukilau and online via our weblogs. I've also contributed some of my stuff to a Beachbum Berry book, and Jeff couldn't have been easier to work with.

I haven't run across all that many folks who're really pedantic about Tiki Purity. Even Sven has stuff in his collection that he's readily admitted doesn't meet his stringent standards.

I did attend Hukilau once, way back in 2006, and although it was fairly enjoyable, I found it somewhat cliquish and hard to meet people. There were also a fair number of 'Party Hearty" types who only showed up in order to get smashed.

My only real beef is occasionally running across people who've take advantage of me by not upholding their part of a bargain, but those folks seem to be few and far between, and you find them in every walk of life.

[ Edited by MrBaliHai on 2023-01-22 12:06:49 ]

Your experience is similar to mine, and I'd venture to say the common one. Like Swanky asserts earlier in this thread, a lot of the dissonance is created by folks who presume a certain entitlement to turn their hobby into a career, whether deserved or no. Like most of life's endeavors, we usually take away approximately what we bring to any given thing, and there are always more takers than givers. Not to sound clichéd, but I think Tiki at its purest is a state of mind; a direction to move in more than a destination to arrive at.

I exchanged a massive ceramics collection, along with a house full of the requisite bamboo, matting, carved trim and idols, three bars & a Witco living room suite for a mid-century Florida condo surrounded by water. I retain a few reminders of my Tikiphile days, but they reside within an overall man cave/library aesthetic. As I'm now a single retiree with everything I own paid for, there's no more intrinsic need for escapism, other than from annoying people and ill health.

Mahalo arises from the simple life: right thinking, right motivation and right action, and a few friends of like mindset. I can drive five miles down the road to enjoy a nearby Tiki bar/Chinese restaurant, and converse & reminisce about the joy I discovered in my previous encounters, haunts & collection, knowing that all that stuff is out there providing others the same enjoyment it once gave to me.

[ Edited by WhiteDevilPress on 2023-01-22 12:35:05 ]

Unpopular opinion: I love the Crusin Tikis

I won’t even disagree with any claims that they aren’t “real tiki” but they are fun

No bathroom is a big minus though....

They pull over on a beach for swimming, in cooler weather or locations without a convenient swimming beach that would be an issue though.

That lake looks so calm & peaceful. That Tiki float looks so inviting & party like. But, for any one who has ever been in the inter-coastal waterway in Ft. Lauderdale & been passed by a 50 ft Hatteras plowing water leaving a 4 ft wake, even if the bar stools are bolted to the deck that will be one wild ride my friend. Hold on to your drink.

That is the ocean, between the mainland and a barrier island, but a no wake zone.

I do not like Exotica music in tiki bars. I used to have it in the mix in the Hideaway, but over the years I deleted all of it. It is distracting and just plain wacky. It is a mood killer.

I have tons of Exotica and I certainly like the genre.

One of the key elements of exotica is often its quirkiness with sound effects and bird calls and odd instrumentations. Those things are jarring in a tiki bar.

At the same time, some of my favorite Hukilau memories are hearing it played live in the Mai-Kai either in Molokai or back in Tahiti, or even just on stage. If I could hear Martin Denny at DtB Waikiki in the day, it would be incredible.

On the sound system, it isn't good.

I consider the music to be another decoration to a tiki bar. It's another layer. It is not the focal point. If it is not there, it is not complete. If it is the wrong music it is off-putting. Just like going to a classic Mexican or Chinese or Indian restaurant. You may have no idea who is playing or what they are saying, etc., but it is a detail of the environment you expect, and don't actually notice unless it is missing or wrong.

Share your playlist :)

iTunes will let me burn it to a disk, but that's about all. It's 290 songs, 12 hours...

Interesting that you like Exotica but don't like it in a bar. You are definitely right about the right music completing the environment. So what is your music of choice for a Tiki bar? PS, iTunes is evil - you don't own that music, Apple just lets you use it for now

"Island" music I guess is best way to say it. I have hundreds of vintage LPs and I've ripped them and made playlists of favorites. Alfred Apaka, Ray Kinney, Charles Mauu, Haunani, Goerge Kainapau, Sam Makai, Webley Edwards. A bunch of no name stuff.

Most of what I have ripped is terrible and boring. Then you find gems.

A lot is my own LPs, and then a lot is downloaded LPs from the 1990s when there were a lot of sharing sites.

Do people still do that? Are there places to download ripped PLs anymore?

None of it is purchased from iTunes, just added to my library and synched to my phone. I have a Blue Tooth system in the bar and play music from my phone that way.

ITunes or Apple Music? You can definitely share a playlist from the latter, even if it’s stuff you’ve ripped yourself, but it needs a newer Mac.

Spotify a great playlist resource

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/11t4yzNUcpDrQhjSteMoah?si=b2e9a38008964c42

I wasn't familiar with some of those artists but sampled them on YouTube and there are some great ones. Thanks Swanky

I see how to export playlists now. Without the sound files, it isn't a lot of use, but if anyone wants to see the artists, songs and albums, the spreadsheet is HERE and the text file is HERE.

[ Edited by Swanky on 2023-05-29 16:19:13 ]

Unpopular tiki confessions: Star Wars/Tiki crossovers. I don’t get it. I can sorta get the cantina from the first movie as a tiki connection? But there’s just so much Star Wars tiki that I’m tired of it. It seems lazy, mash up two popular things to make something “new.”

Now Star Trek and tiki, that could be something new. Taking Vulcan or Klingon religion and swapping in Hawaiian gods could be interesting? Or not. Probably not.

I bought a “Star Wars” t-shirt and painted “I hate” above it.

I don’t really HATE hate “Star Wars” but I do hate it’s largely unearned cultural ubiquity and do think a little push-back is in order.

Unpopular Tiki Opinion(s):

I like vintage (and maybe cool reimaginings of) Hawaiian shirts and I own a few myself but I don’t wear them to tiki bars. Why? Because it seems to me that the people who were going to the original tiki bars back in the day did not wear them en masse. This could also apply to the current ladies’ retro tiki styles as well. Both get a little fetishy. For me if you want to keep it completely real, you’d want to dress like the original tiki people did or maybe just something cool and kinda flashy, or maybe even a black t-shirt and jeans! The escapist part of it should be the destination not the attire. Needless to say I’m not into captain’s hats or fezzes either. It’s just a little overdone.

I saw an earlier post here that was a thumbs down on the use of bird calls and the like in Martin Denny music. I’ve owned a lot of that stuff on vinyl for years but I have to agree it is kind of goofy and really unnecessary. It’s too bad because the music on its own is great but the birds…nah. Also previously mentioned, the Asian inspired instrumentation. Not my thing either and I agree, it doesn’t sound Tiki to me. In fact maybe I’ll put some of that stuff on eBay.

Finally, tiki mugs. Vintage tiki mugs are great and sometimes the reimagined ones are cool too. A good example would be the Smuggler’s Cove tiki idol mug (the one on the cover of the book), and in fact I just bought a Werewolves of London/Trader Vic mug (even though I’m not really a fan of the song), but the ones that are Star Wars inspired or Elvis inspired, or whatever…again, it’s just overdone.

[ Edited by donhonyc on 2023-10-27 13:28:27 ]

This has probably been expressed before but Tiki Bob jumped the shark YEARS ago! Pier Bob, Man in the Moon Bob, Maori War Canoe Bob, Tahiti Bob, Marquesan War Club Bob, Hawaiian Shirt Bob, Palm Tree Bob, Elvis Bob, King Kong Bob (OK, I made that one), Moai Bob, Pineapple Bob, Buttplug Bob, Humuhumunukunukuapua'a Bob, Under the Sea Bob, Banana Bob, Toilet Paper Roll Bob, Lava Bob, Bob Up and Bite Me Bob, Bob's Your Uncle Bob, etc, etc, etc... LOL

[ Edited by MadDogMike on 2023-12-20 08:53:12 ]

Couldn't agree with you more Mike. And before anyone says, who am i to talk, what about your Bob'O'Nut?, I made that design around 11/12 years ago now and made it as a joke because most people knew i how much i hate him. I hated him back then, now with all these stupid interpretations, i hate him even more.

Recently on Facebook someone said, "Marrying two quirky things together is kinda amazing", and Sven's response to that was, "Marrying just any pop culture genre with Tiki is not 'amazing', it is dumb. It is the shallowest, laziest form of 'creativity'........" and that applies just as much to all these Bob mugs.

It's like 90% of new mug makers very first mug is a Bob, sometimes even copying ideas that have already been done by others. They can't come up with anything original (and if they do the designs are usually hideous) and just make something that all these new collectors will love because he's 'cute' and they really don't care, or have any interest in, historic/traditional Tiki.

Yup LOL

Just gonna piggyback on my Bob hate. It's been beaten to death, and then some. Some mug makers/mug designers still continue to put out a Bob ANYTHING. Talk about oversaturated!

Some people I love and respect are making Tiki Bobs, I've got nothing against them. And people keep buying them so I don't blame them. Just not my style :D

Never been a Tiki Bob fan myself. We do have one, the Christmas Tree Bob from Eekum Bookum. My wife really liked it and it reminded both of us of the classic ceramic Christmas tree decoration that each of our grandmothers had. Other than that though I generally pass on Bob.

[ Edited by JasonMa on 2023-12-21 19:17:20 ]

Unpopular opinion: Enerst B. Gantt was nothing more than a bootleg criminal.