Tiki is not PC...apparently

https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2019-11-27/tiki-bar-problems

Well...come to your own opinions about this story. To me, Tiki is an escape, based on a nostalgia for a midcentury fantasy of paradise. We're not mocking anybody but our own grandparents.

Fortunately, the article says the Suffering Bastard (my favorite palliative) is "pre-tiki", so I'm off the hook. I think.

Copying this over from a recent post I made on a prior thread on this topic.

An interesting new article and podcast from The Atlantic touches on this cultural appropriation discussion at the end of it, in a way that I felt was very well-balanced. The end of the podcast has an interview with Kalewa Correa, a professor at UH and the Curator at the Smithsonian's Asia Pacific American Center.

I thought he had a good take on tiki, its position as an American movement that is influenced by but does not replicate Polynesia culture, and where there are specific issues with cultural appropriation. He ha two areas that concerned him as a native Hawai'ian (and he was clear that he only spoke as a Hawai'ian, not for all Polynesian cultures). First, the hypersexualization of Polynesian woman in tiki artwork. That concern doesn't seem particularly controversial or problematic.

Second, the use of Polynesian gods in tiki carvings, as an example he pointed out the Hawai'ian god of war, Ku, and the use of his image in everything from carvings to mugs. His point, and I thought this is really where he nailed it, is that he understands that American tiki is a fantasy based on the South Pacific, not a recreation of the South Pacific, but in that case tiki carvers and mug designers should come up with their own imagery and not use the images from a belief system that's still somewhat practiced.

Personally I thought those were two very reasonable takes on the idea of tiki and cultural appropriation. He didn't call the whole tiki movement problematic . He didn't say people can't enjoy the fantasy of tiki. He just challenged people to consider two specific types of common representation in tiki and think about changing those two aspects while keeping everything else. That seems like a understandable request.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/10/rise-and-fall-and-rise-american-tiki-bar/600691/

Personally, I am tired of everything being considered "cultural appropriation".
At what point will it end?

If there was the "Me" generation this generation is the "poor Me" or the "Woe is me" generation as they just search all day looking for the thing that is wrong.

The Peloton Commercial is now sparking outrage as it is body shaming the girl in it, or sexist, who knows.

Here it is....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72RvkJuLsU

But wait why is THAT so offensive while rap songs of the day are blatantly sexist, nasty, and degrading to women.

I could list TONS and they would paly these in the dining halls at OSU when I worked there (like over the whole place where the customers were) man listening to that "music" all day would just make you angry.

dr.dre - bitches aint shit (but hoes and tricks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYHL6AYAwQU&list=PL4nhVg3ryf5eQ_h0tzL8ReJMUgSLR6sAs

Where's the outrage for that crap!

You need to ask yourself what the outrage is really about.

There is an agenda to all this outrage and its aimed at certain people not what they are doing as much.

You might be a 20, 30 years from the grave but your Kids are going to really get messed with.

Get woke people.

In this song to get in a gang this fine fellow and his friends rape a woman and then they tell him to kill her and he will get in the gang but before he does they take the hood off of her head and he sees it is his mother.

And The Peloton Commercial is an outrage!?

Bet you did not even know they made songs like this.

Dance With The Devil - Immortal Technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggxTtnKTMo

On 2019-12-06 05:23, tikiskip wrote:
dr.dre - bitches aint shit (but hoes and tricks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYHL6AYAwQU&list=PL4nhVg3ryf5eQ_h0tzL8ReJMUgSLR6sAs

Where's the outrage for that crap!

First of all you complain about the current generation, then as an example you pick a song from 1992? That's straight Gen X music right there. And did you sleep through the early 90's and somehow miss all the controversy over NWA (who Dre was a founding member of) and 'gangster rap'? Where's the outrage? It was everywhere then. Hell, they just made a pretty good movie about it, Straight Outta Compton.

I'm sure there are many new ones that are as bad or worse.
I don't listen to that stuff that's for sure, I was FORCED to listen to it ALL day at OSU.

Can you imagine me playing Gene Rains all day in a kitchen at OSU, or Country music.
There would be riots if I did, that would not even be an option.

On breaks, that for some were most of the day, we got to watch violent Maury Povich and "Whos the baby daddy" fights.

Just sayin there is much more to be outraged about than tiki and an exercise bike commercial these days.

On 2019-12-06 05:23, tikiskip wrote:

Get woke people.

OK BOOMER.

As someone of Irish descent, I'm outraged when I go to a pseudo Irish pub and see Bud on tap.

Just sayin there is much more to be outraged about than tiki and an exercise bike commercial these days.

People (and whole generations) can multi-task you know.

It's useful to discuss whether tiki is, isn't, or is partially appropriative. Surely we all want to be good people (I mean, not many people actually WANT to be an asshole), so a serious examination of our beliefs and practices is a worthwhile exercise.

Conversely, it is not useful to avoid the subject by engaging in distracting logical fallacies such as casting aspersions on the accusers of appropriation or pointing out that they, or others, engage in worse practices. That's simply defensive avoidance of the question, and doesn't help with anyone's edification. I think we can be better than that.

My take on this is that first of all, no one is belittling anything in Tiki. This is the main thing, it's not that there is even anything to defend against. People wear Hawaiian shirts. Aloha shirts even. There's the cocktails, the music, the decor, which is art. Yes, it is based on an idealized sort of version of the original indigenous cultures, but that's the whole point. There is no pretending to be, nor dressing up as, nor need to show superiority over. It's escapism, that's the whole draw. Drink a superb cocktail, listen to some music that evokes some tropical vibe, be surrounded by tropical stuff. Get away from it all mentally, have fun.

That is all.

Can we please talk about rap songs and not what this thread is actually about?

On 2019-12-07 02:40, swizzle wrote:
Can we please talk about rap songs and not what this thread is actually about?

Ha! that a good one.

Here's my take on it: Cultural Appropriation and Tiki

password is: look

It would be good to document every such story as they get published a history of this trend.

"Mai-Kai: History & Mystery of the Iconic Tiki Restaurant" the book

[ Edited by: Swanky 2019-12-10 06:47 ]

[ Edited by: Swanky 2019-12-10 06:48 ]

Aloha! Thanks Swanky for sharing the article. Interesting read. I am a baby Tiki member and trying to educate myself on the history which is sooo rich. Being a lover of all things Hawaiian, the Polynesian culture really speaks to this girl.

:drink: :tiki: Cheers!

On 2019-12-05 21:04, Heath wrote:
Personally, I am tired of everything being considered "cultural appropriation".
At what point will it end?

Unfortunately it will never end. The future will be in the hands of people who “feel” rather than “think” and throw tantrums and scream when they don’t get their way.

I have read a few of these articles and seen a few video posts where the words cultural misappropriation were banded and also white sexist attitudes were expressed by very vocal and I am sure very earnest folk.

The problem is very polar and narrow entrenched viewpoints don't resolve issues. I remember being at Art School some 30 years ago if not earlier and there were some very strong opinions by folk my age being banded about , pretty much about anything. The main point is that some folk like to find scandal and shout about it no matter how how little they have researched.

Tiki is not misappropriation it is a respect and admiration for those places and perhaps times in the past. A fantastical whim at best and a commercial exploitation exercise at worst (Tacky Clown Tiki). From the time of Cook and before tales of palm fronded Islands gave the folk in Europe an escape from the drudgery of the every day of scraping a living.

Without the Souvenir trade and transportable Tiki's folk that would be a massive income that would be missing for a lot of locals in these far off Islands. So if anything that's exploiting the tourists.

And as for cultural misappropriation argument for most things. If Admiring peoples styles from other countries is a sin then Fashion and architecture would be a very boring place. I don't see folk demanding Doric columns be ripped off the frontages of well known buildings. It isn't going to happen because the folk aren't getting offended by that so why should they get offended if I or you what to collect Pacific or Polynesian idols and display those collections in what ever way I want to? Most of them were re-invented by Coco Joes so much so that they barely look like the originals anyway.

The Sexual Fantasy of Middle aged men (Hula Girls) arguments can also be debunked as a puritanical preaching of overly westernised people. My advice is read Love in the South Seas by Bengt Danielsson, of the Kon Tiki expedition fame. Despite the racey cover, in the first few chapters of this quite extensive ethnological research book. In it he describes the last throws of unwesternised Polynesian society in the late 1950s. Here he showed the problems caused by Western Missionary Puritanical Ideals being thrust on Island societies and where the 2 were completely opposed. In fact Sex was a preoccupation of the people in daily conversation. A scandal to White priests who saw it as evidence of the devil. So if early 20th century pop culture caught on to scantily clad island girls dancing its because we in the west started to catch on that we didn't need to be so buttoned down Victorian ideals, it wasn't because we are all perverted voyerists.

I think there is a fashion to get offended, publish your rant or put it on tiktok or some such popularist social media outlet. This is a fad an embarrassing fad at that which will die out.