Reminiscing Stuff

The name of the Little River Band's first top 10 song in the U.S. was 'Reminiscing'

I never realized what trendsetters that band was. Everyone here on tiki central seems to be reminiscing these days.

Vern

"The game for people who remember the Beatles"

Weeping Jesus....

Trader Woody

Hey Unga! I was trying to review this important thread but the photo link in your post is no longer valid.

Please update it!

Everyone here on tiki central seems to be reminiscing these days.

My sister keeps telling me the same thing. I just tell her that if things weren't going downhill all over, I'd have something to live for in the present!

Reminiscing about Reminiscing...does anybody else think that since the 1970s (roughly) spawned such a feeling of dread for the future, where there had once been a feeling of bright hopfullness, that reminising has just gone over the top?

Was this trend so abundant and fervent in prior to this?

even though i was born in 1970 i think my cultural memory extends to the 60's - mostly crap on tv and my oldest brother (b. 1962) shared everything with us growing up.

On 2006-02-06 06:25, Gigantalope wrote:
Reminiscing about Reminiscing...does anybody else think that since the 1970s (roughly) spawned such a feeling of dread for the future, where there had once been a feeling of bright hopfullness, that reminising has just gone over the top?

Was this trend so abundant and fervent in prior to this?

At least one guy agress with you. If you like this kinda stuff, read: "1939: The Lost World of the Fair" by David Gelerntner. (The Unibomber tried to blow him up) It talks about how the 1960's fulfilled the promised future of the World's Fair. Also talks about every generation was full of hope for the future (even during the Depression, War, Korean War, Cold War and Vietnam) until the 70's. That's when America start to slide. I blame myself.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038072748X/103-9598578-3476628?v=glance&n=283155

[ Edited by: pappythesailor 2006-02-06 13:13 ]

On 2006-02-06 06:25, Gigantalope wrote:
Was this trend so abundant and fervent in prior to this?

I can't gauge how abundant or fervent or trend-like it might have been for those a few generations before us, but I do know that my own grandparents have always had a lot of nostalgia for the times of their own childhood and earlier. They have old antique cars, mostly. Walt Disney was famously nostalgic for his own midwest childhood, which resulted in movies like So Dear to My Heart & Pollyanna, and the appearance of Main Street at Disneyland. My gut feel is that our desire to put our headspace in a semi-fictional idea of the past is nothing unique to our generation.

My gut feel is that our desire to put our headspace in a semi-fictional idea of the past is nothing unique to our generation.

I agree that reminiscence is not unique to the current generation, but is it becoming more pervasive than before? In the 1980s I read the results of a newspaper survey that said America's favorite decade was the 1950s. That sounds about right to me, since it was a very stable decade with known social norms, clear-cut enemies, combined with improving science and technology and personal freedoms (e.g., Playboy and its philosophy was becoming acceptable), America was physically expanding (Alaska & Hawaii), all of which leads to things like optimism, patriotism, stable jobs, less relocation, better buying power, and more recreational time. Unfortunately, I can't find any such survey online at the moment.

The '60s and early '70s had lots of freedom and had the most creative music and art (Beatles era, 1964 World's Fair, Jackson Pollock, etc.), but the Viet Nam war was escalating, which was tearing the country apart.

The late '70s experienced a decline in freedoms worldwide, for both liberals (e.g., pot smokers) and conservatives (e.g., gun collectors), roughly coinciding with disco music and a revival in simplistic country music, and there was declining interest in colonizing space or the oceans anymore. Theme parks "dumbed down" and thrill rides began to replace educational rides.

The '80s had good growth in technology (e.g., PCs, videos, personal rocket jets), and popular music had reached a peak of skill and technology, but people no longer stuck together like before, money became God (yuppie era), there was a stock market collapse, the nation's wealth became extremely skewed, coral reefs began dying off around the world, job security declined with the demise of monopolies, social security funds were raided by government, undeclared wars occurred every 1-2 years for political reasons, songwriting ability went downhill as technical and technological proficiency increased, universities became politically correct and increasingly restrictive whereas before they had been homes to creativity and outspokenness and progressiveness, and management decisions and public attitudes became based on the most superficial appearances and statistics, leading to a trend of movie stars getting into government positions.

The '90s saw the rise of rap music, inspiring and skilled progressive rock turned into simplistic and depressing grunge rock, Disney parks began declining, the government had to actually shut down a few times due to economic problems, and there were even worse political abuses and even more lost freedoms.

The '00s saw major terrorist attacks, and even more attacks on personal freedoms.

Just listen to the extremely angry, foul music that is pervasive now, look at the plethora of horror movies of extreme violence that now probably outnumber movies of any other genre, the extreme grossness of recent adult movies, the low quality souvenirs at theme parks, the restrictions on everything (e.g., scuba diving, spearfishing, shell collecting), the decline of quality and maintenance at Disney parks, the widespread failure of marriage and stable families, the dishonesty of business and government at every level, the monitoring and intrusion of business and government in everything from Internet to office conversations, security cameras in nearly every store and street, and it's easy to see something fundamental is very wrong. I don't want to get into politics or philosophy here, so I'll omit detailed opinions about cause-and-effect.

So although the '50s weren't personally my favorite decade, I have to agree that, overall, things were provably better back then, at least in the things that mattered, which led to more optimism and personal fulfillment for a larger percentage of people. Therefore, as we drift further from those better decades, there are logical reasons to see an increase in reminiscence!

[ Edited by: mbonga 2006-02-06 16:20 ]

My dad and my uncle, who are both big reminiscers, and very much into things of the past, still say that the "Golden Years" weren't in the past, they are right now - a big surprise for me to hear them say that. They both feel that although there were some great things in the past, some of the things that still endure to this day, like hunger, disease, and a poor job economy, just to name a few, were worse then than they are today. There will be huge strides in medicine within our lifetimes, that will revolutionize people's lives (although sadly will come at a date that will be too late for some).

Although some of the things from the past were better, like the amount of design and craftsmanship that went into products, etc., and although I love technology from the past, like vinyl records, tube based electronics, and cars made out of thick steel that use carburetors and distributors, I also love some of the modern conveniences of today. Combine that with an overall higher standard of living, and I'll take today over the past anytime! But the best part of it all is, we live in a world where we can have both! Buy those old vinyl records! Keep on gettin' those vintage tiki mugs! Proudly display an old console stereo, whether it's hi-fi, or just plays 78's! Just don't forget to tell your friends, and your children, and grandchildren, where these things came from, and how important these things from the past were in helping to shape the world of today!

mbonga,
I agree with most of what you said (although your arguments are heavier into theme parks than I would have gone!), I just want to throw one fly in the ointment: If you were black, would you want to live now or in the 50's? And I don't mean "you", I mean, any of us.

*On 2006-02-07 07:28, pappythesailor wrote:*would you want to live now or in the 50's?

race aside, would you be concerned about your mother falling in love with you and not going to the 'enchantment under the sea' dance with your dad?

If you were black, would you want to live now or in the 50's?

Exactly that same thought hit me after posting my spiel. My answer is the same as Noam Chomsky's: Some things have improved, some have declined. Some minorities have gained freedoms (especially blacks and gays) but others have lost freedoms in a major way that make the '50s discrimination look tame in comparison. Medicine and technology have definitely improved, but in general human rights have gone down, worldwide, and we have new incurable diseases and and dangerous organisms (especially the ebola virus, HIV, and stronger forms of STDs and common bacteria) that we didn't have before. TV has more channels but is so censored that it isn't worth watching. Music and recording equipment are much more sophisticated and much less expensive but people can't seem to write good melodic music anymore. More people are into scuba but there are fewer decent places to dive where the reefs haven't died off or been otherwise destroyed. Science has advanced, but a large percentage of students entering American colleges now are painfully deficient in basic math and reading & writing skills. We generally have more sexual freedom but now there are so many STDs around that casual sex has become more dangerous. Which brings me back to my original claim: superficially things seem to be getting better in ways that are the most readily measurable, but the most important things like happiness, stability, knowledge, wisdom, freedom, and optimism, which are more difficult to measure, are generally declining.

I don't believe the allure of the past has much to do with reality...considering how things really were, just makes the little happy icons of that era seem more enticing and collectible. I know some old folks who adored the depression...they collect crazy stuff from that era...archetectual pieces, cabooses, toys, furniture...anything that reminds them of unencumbered youth, and simplicity of childhood life.

There is no limit to eras of reminiscing of course, Walt's "Mainstreet" (sans horse poop) being a slice of the 1890/1914 is typical of his generation. I find it interesting that about the same amount of time has elapsed from that era to Disneylands opening, as has Disnelyand's Opening to now. I wonder if Walt were in his heyday, if he would cling to the '50s, and create that sort of mainstreet?

Maybe it's not just the sentimentality, coupled with a bt of dread for the future...maybe too it's the pervasiveness of media, advertising and products have packaged and tried to sell the past?

The most freekish reminicers (In my opinion anyway) do so from from times they didn't even live thru...Reinactors who would give anything to live thru a day at Hastings, Bannockburn, or Gettysburg.

On 2006-02-05 22:52, Hakalugi wrote:
Hey Unga! I was trying to review this important thread but the photo link in your post is no longer valid.
Please update it!

Hey Haki!
Classic, I don't even remember when or why (like most of my threads. :D ) I posted this thread.
I do love the Beatles though.
Here ya go.

...anything that reminds them of unencumbered youth, and simplicity of childhood life.

I've long been a reminiscer, even in childhood, and I've found that, at any given point in time, I long for any era that was significantly better than the present (in my experience). Therefore there are also a few good but brief modern eras of my life I miss (e.g., circa early '90s), and I find that when things are really bad, I miss just about any other era. So in my experience it's a relative thing, not necessarily related to youth. When things are going well in the present, I find I tend not to think about the past anywhere near as much.

I wonder if Walt were in his heyday, if he would cling to the '50s, and create that sort of mainstreet?

I read Walt was becoming disillusioned in his later years. He began to dislike the poor manners of the general public, and spent less time socializing with the public than he did before. If you mean if Walt were still alive, I'm pretty sure his opinion would be the same as mine: he would think the '50s were a lot better than the present (he'd be having fits if he could see the roller coaster they put in front of his beloved Disneyland, and how they let his park run down in maintenance, quality, and removed attactions), but that the '50s still could not match the glory of the older days of circa 1900.

If you mean if Walt had grown up in the '50s and had never experienced the early 1900s, I'd be pretty sure the Main Street atmosphere wouldn't have held much appeal for him, anymore than Main Street did to me when I used to rush past it to get to the parts I liked and could relate to. My mother used to love Main Street, no doubt mostly because she grew up in that same era, but I could never relate to Main Street's attraction. That relates to what I wrote in an earlier response: that the things that are important to a person are intangibles that can't be physically shown or easily measured: emotions, love, acceptance, fun, memories, associations, security, pride, optimism, carefreeness, freedom, etc. Walt associated Main Street with those feelings, but many other cultural settings/eras could have served the same purpose, such as the '50s. In that sense, Main Street and therefore a big part of Disneyland is now an anachronism that is irrelevant and outdated!

Maybe it's not just the sentimentality, coupled with a bt of dread for the future...maybe too it's the pervasiveness of media, advertising and products have packaged and tried to sell the past?

Speaking for myself, I find that to be untrue. I've always been interested in futuristic, advanced civilizations, and science fiction, which is one reason I liked Tomorrowland so much. I certainly didn't dread the future, but was looking forward to it. But now, with the disinterest in space travel and government inability to easily fund advanced projects like fusion energy and space/ocean colonization, it doesn't provide a lot to look forward to. The political, economic, and environmental situation worldwide has become so dismal and unstable that I'm surprised society is still afloat. Look at modern Tomorrowland in Disneyland: they no longer have a vision of what the future will look like, literally! When they upgraded Tomorrowland they had to resort to the '50s-'60s nostalgic view of the future rather than promoting something new. Kind of makes one wonder why!

As for media promotion of the past, I personally find that irrelevant and even annoying. I especially hate the numerous films that mindlessly insert the song "Good Lovin'" (by The Rascals) every time they need a retro '60s scene. It's formulaic and weird and very unoriginal.

The most freekish reminicers (In my opinion anyway) do so from from times they didn't even live thru...Reinactors who would give anything to live thru a day at Hastings, Bannockburn, or Gettysburg.

That is pretty weird. A girlfriend once told me after her visit to the Viet Nam memorial wall in DC that younger people would be weeping and carrying on about numerous names on that wall of deceased soldiers that they could not possibly have known personally, or in that quantity. But each era also carries an atmsophere that goes along with it--a specific style of music, food, clothes, expressions, transportation, weapons, attitudes, technology, and geographical setting--so each era's atmosphere will always carry appeal for those whose personal tastes match those of the atmosphere. Just look at the success of Westerns! Reenacters surely relate to other specific eras. Reenacters are a good example I never thought about before.

[ Edited by: mbonga 2006-02-09 00:03 ]

[ Edited by: mbonga 2006-02-09 00:11 ]