Mysterious Tiki “X” (French Connection... Page 4)

Are there any TC tiki detectives out there? I have an urban archaeology challenge for you.

I met Maureen Thompson via email through a mutual friend – K.C. Heylin (former Hawaiiana dealer, and current proprieter of http://www.beachdudeinc.com.)

Maureen has a tiki in her backyard that she acquired some time ago. She would like to find out the origins of it. Here are the clues, according to Maureen:

** *“It is a bit over 6' tall, solid wood carved, heavy...4 men walked it into the yard.”

"It came from 2401 Hollywood Blvd., the house belonged to Dale Sherwood, she was born around 1924 which would have made her in her late 70's when she passed away in 2002. She was in show business, bit acting parts, mainly a stuntwoman and at one point a private detective."

"It was in her yard, she has a hook behind it's head where it was fastened to something so it would not fall over. It also has a carved hammer that came with it."

"I do not have any further information regarding where she got it, possibly from one of the films she appeared in.”* **

Here are some photos taken by Maureen. Her email address is [email protected].

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

**Cheers!

A-A**

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua on 2005-06-07 20:48 ]

Looks a little like one out of Adventureland at Disneyland in the 50s. The pic is buried at home though - so I may not get to compare it till after Xmas...

I found Dale Sherwood on IMDb as Gale Sherwood:

Gale Sherwood

Date of birth (location) 4 March 1929

Trivia
She was the nightclub partner of Nelson Eddy until his death in 1967.

Sometimes Credited As:
Jacqueline Nash
Dale Sherwood

IMDbPro Professional Details

Actress - filmography
(1950s) (1940s) (1930s)

A Connecticut Yankee (1955) (TV)
Naughty Marietta (1955) (TV) .... Yvonne
The Desert Song (1955) (TV) .... Margot
The Merry Widow (1952) (uncredited) .... Maxim Girl

Song of My Heart (1948) .... Sophia
Rocky (1948)
Blonde Savage (1947) .... Meelah

Border Roundup (1942) (as Dale Sherwood) .... Waitress
... aka The Lone Rider in Border Roundup (USA)
Raiders of the West (1942) (uncredited) .... Gwen (saloon girl)
Let's Make Music (1941) (as Jacqueline Nash) .... High School Singer

They Shall Have Music (1939) (as Jacqueline Nash) .... Betty
... aka Melody of Youth (UK)
... aka Ragged Angels (USA: reissue title)

Tom Rosqui, left, Gale Sherwood and Reginald Denny

"The Red Mill", from the first season of the Music Circus, 1951

Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., D.F.S.

[ Edited by: freddiefreelance on 2004-12-23 14:55 ]

WOW! What a hottie! I love that "Blonde Savage" poster.

OA all the way!

Thanks, Danny. Does anyone have an old Oceanic Arts catalog? Would it be in there? Or do you think it just has the look of a Leroy Schmaltz carving?

I know Maureen wants to authenticate it somehow. Like maybe a picture or scan from the catalog. We're kind of wondering how old it is. It looks pretty weathered.

Any and all thoughts appreciated. :)

Mahalo!

Aaron

Here ya go Aaron.

Disneyland, entrance to Adventureland - 1959.

Most likely Oceanic Arts - I don't have a catalog showing this guy though. So - he is probably identical to a similar series, if not the same one.

Thanks, Freddie, Chiki & Tangaroa. I think we've just about got this one nailed. I emailed Bob at Oceanic Arts.

**Bob: *"Aloha Aaron: The original Rarotongan Tiki from the Cook Islands in hardwood was imported from Samoa and sold to Disney by Cargoes by Carter when they first opened. We at Oceanic Arts carved quite a few of these in Palmwood. I still have a 30 yrs old one at home in excellent condition.
Most of ours were carved by Ed Crissman, who carved from us for over 20 years. He is no longer alive. Most of these he did were at our shop in the 1960's. We sold them for about $120.00 per foot of height.
If it is hardwood then it was carved in Samoa for Cargoes by Carter an early supplier of tropical decor.

Bob* **

So, I guess the only thing we need to do is figure out if it's palm or hardwood. I've checked the photos, but its really hard for me to tell with all of the weathering and all. I've not inspected it personally, just the pics that Maureen emailed to me.

Does anyone venture to guess as to the type of wood from looking at the pics?

Ed Crissman also did the carvings for the Ken Kimes Tropics chain of motels (the most notable one being our dear Caliente Tropics in Palm Springs). His tikis can still be seen at the Palm Springs and Modesto locations, the PS ones are better cared for, naturally.

However, that tiki looks to me like it's carved from hardwood. I'm no expert, though.

Ed Crissman also carved our 8ft Kona Kai tiki. It is palmwood and had been outside in the elements for awhile. Comparing the look of the grains leads me to believe that the mysterious tiki X is hardwood.

When we first met.......

[ Edited by: 8FT Tiki on 2004-12-29 17:53 ]

[ Edited by: 8FT Tiki on 2004-12-29 17:55 ]

The wood is hard fo sho!

Okay, let’s go with hardwood. That’s what I was leaning toward also. Further evidence is that it is very heavy. According to Maureen “It is a bit over 6' tall, solid wood carved, heavy...4 men walked it into the yard.”.

So, here’s what I have so far based on everyone’s input.

**Name: "Rarotongan Tiki from The Cook Islands”.
Origin: Samoa.
Imported by: Cargoes by Carter.
Material: Hardwood (type unknown).
Approx. Age: 25 to 45 years old. **

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Unfortunately, I know nothing about “Cargoes by Carter”. Tried a few web searches and came up with nothing. Searching Tiki Central came up with only one this one hit: Urban Archeology with BigBro, Sabu & Tangaroa

On 2004-12-03 16:22, Tangaroa wrote:

Here's Sabu looking through a super-rare 'Cargoes By Carter' catalogue...

That was a really excellent and informative post, Tangaroa. Can you, Sabu, or BigBro shed any light on this seemingly defunct importer of tropical décor? Or anyone else for that matter?

Better yet, does anyone have a copy of the rare "Cargoes by Carter" Catalogue? Is this tiki listed in it?

Would this tiki be rarer, or more collectible if it is indeed a C.b.C. tiki rather than an O.A. tiki?

Thanks for helping with all of these questions!

A-A

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua on 2004-12-30 14:24 ]

You can see by the checking it IS Hardwood, and it has a lot of deterioration and needs to be sealed

Well - I have that catalogue Sabu is holding in my possession right now - I could scan it & upload small-rez versions of the pages, but I've already checked & that tiki isn't in there....

[ Edited by: Tangaroa on 2004-12-30 14:28 ]

You can see by the checking it IS Hardwood, and it has a lot of deterioration and needs to be sealed.
Excellent story with Great input.

No worries, Tangaroa. Thanks for offering. It would be nice to have "hard proof" that it's a C.b.C. tiki, but it may be that there is no way to ever authenticate it properly.

Thanks for the assessment, Benzart. With everyone's expert opinions, I'm pretty confident that it's hardwood at this point - though I've not seen it in person.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Would any of you tiki experts venture an "off the cuff" assessment of this tiki's value for my friend Maureen, assuming:

Likely a "Cargoes by Carter" tiki (though not completely authenticated),
Somewhere between 25 to 45 years old,
According to Maureen, some termite damage,
Pretty weathered, somewhat deteriorated, definitely in need of restoration

(This is not a sales pitch, guys!)

Maureen's just curious what you might think - restored value vs. "as-is" value.

Mahalo!

Aaron

It's really hard to put a monetary value on something like that.... particularly if it was the one from Disneyland (for me anyway)...

As most collectors know - something is only worth what the most desparate buyer is willing to spend.

But a vintage OA 1950s carving? I would venture at least a couple $1000, if not more...

Just my opinion though - and you know what they say about those!

As most collectors know - something is only worth what the most desperate buyer is willing to spend
I agree with Tangaroa.
And my belief is that fully restored it would be more visually appealing to the majority of folks. However, there will always be those who believe it is better to leave it "natural". If it is experiencing termite damage, it will only get worse unless it is properly restored AND relocated to a more climate controlled environment.
What value will there be in a pile of sawdust that used to be a great tiki ??
If it were mine, I'd stop the bug assault, get it inside and put a new tiki in the backyard where the classic one once stood.

You're right Tangaroa, collector's items are very hard to gauge for value. But do you really think this is an O.A. carving? According to Bob at O.A., if it's hardwood, it must be a "Cargoes by Carter" tiki.

Again, without knowing the story of C.b.C., it's hard to know if this increases or decreases its value. You mentioned that you have a copy of that rare C.b.C. Catalogue. Do you know any other background info on C.b.C.? I couldn't find anything by searching the web.

Re: the Disneyland tiki. I compared the photos side by side by opening 2 web browsers. The Disney tiki looks somewhat different in the upper arms detail, and the legs appear to be more squared off. Maureen's tiki also looks like it has skinnier arms. I would venture to guess that this is not the original Disney tiki.

Maureen will definitely be stoked if it's worth $2K or more, if that's not a rosy figure. 8 FT, you purchased a vintage O.A. tiki. Do you think this one would be worth $2K to a collector?

And that's a good point, 8 FT. What this tiki needs is a tarp cover immediately and some attention to the termite problem, although I'm not quite sure how.

Mahalo, guys.

Anyone else care to take a stab at this tiki's value?

Aloha,

Aaron

Tis guy should be taken to a local exterminator and fumigated. They have rooms for doing that to furniture and I'm sure the cost is Minimal.
Then it needs to be dried out thoroughly and sealed with a clear wood sealer. I wouldn't go varnishing it or anything like that though. I believe that with the history of the piece and given its previous owners that it would be worth a few big bucks and more if it is "Not For Sale".
It is definately an excellent piece to hang on to and an Excellent Find.
Of course if you need someone to take it out of your way, I might be the guy who would help lighten your load and not charge you much! Hahaha (as is HappyHappyHappy)

What a great thread.

For value estimates, I always play the "what would I pay" game, so I'd guess around 1200.00.

I'd also vote for the restore/sealing.

8 FT, you purchased a vintage O.A. tiki. Do you think this one would be worth $2K to a collector?

I think so but that is probably near its TOP price in it's current condition. It needs someone who is going to be dedicated to its care and preservation. Like Charlie Brown and his tree. It needs some love. Perhaps the best thing would be for it to be adopted by someone who is a true tikiphile. (that's not to say that Maureen couldn't be that person of course!)

More "Weigh-In" from Bob at O.A.

Apparently Bob & Leroy at Oceanic Arts have been following this thread. Bob emailed me over the weekend:

Bob: *”Aloha Aaron: This is Bob of Oceanic Arts replying to your thread again. LeRoy and I checked out the new photo on Tiki Central… The tiki is definitely hardwood and imported from Samoa by Cargoes by Carter in the era of 1956 to 1960. LeRoy and I recarved many of these tikis for Carter, as they were carved in Samoa and some features were not accurate.

We carved, sanded and finished them for many jobs. The head, and mouth cracks are typical of hardwood and not of palmwood which is much more grainy. Termite damage is also typical of hardwood as palmwood rots.

Carter called the wood APITAN, which is a tropical hardwood found in the South Seas. Somewhat like Honduras Mahogany in density.

We used to work for Carter and sell for him and have all his catalogs including a photo of the Disney tiki, which should have his price on this tiki for the 1960's. I'll try to get back to you on this data…

Bob
OCEANIC ARTS”*

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reply from me: *”Aloha Bob, Thanks so much for the follow-up. Your information really narrows this down… …So we now know that the tiki is:

1. Between 45 and 49 years old.
2. Definitely a Cargoes by Carter tiki.
3. Imported from Samoa.
4. Made of "Apitan" hardwood.

So, here are a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you think that this tiki was imported by Cargoes by Carter, then recarved, sanded and finished by Oceanic Arts? If so, would it have been carved by Ed Crissman, or by you and Leroy?

2. If you have the original price from the catalog, that would be excellent.

3. I had asked some of the TC folks for an "off-the-cuff" appraisal on the current market value of this tiki… Given that you're in the business, do you have any idea what it might be worth in its current condition? How about if it was refurbished?

Mahalo again for your insight!

Aaron Coppersmith”*

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Again from Bob: *“You are welcome to post our reply on Tiki Central.

Your questions:

#1: We believe it was imported by Cargoes by Carter. It's typical in detail .We might have touched it up for Carter. Not carved by Ed or LeRoy. Usually sold "out of the crate", with some touchup, sanding & finish.

#2: Have not been able to locate Carters original catalog. Will look some more.

#3: This tiki would be fairly easy to return to good condition. LeRoy and I figure we could sell it for up to $2,000 in reconditioned state. Current condition cost wise---maybe $1,200.

Bob”*

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

**PROJECT SOLVED!

So, here’s the revised description of Mysterious Tiki “X”, which I believe can now be considered authenticated to the best of everyone’s ability:**

Name: *"Rarotongan Tiki from The Cook Islands”. *
Origin: Samoa.
Imported by: Cargoes by Carter.
Material: "Apitan" hardwood from Samoa.
Approx. Age: Between 45 and 49 years old. Imported in the era of 1956 to 1960.
Other: Possibly sold "out of the crate", with some touchup, sanding & finish by Oceanic Arts.
Original Owner: Dale (or Gale) Sherwood, an old time movie actress, who died in 2002.
Current Condition: Weathered, some termite damage… otherwise, looks great!
Estimated Value: $1200 “as-is”, $2000 in reconditioned state.

8 FT, Geeky Tiki, & Tangaroa, it looks like you guys were right on the money (Ben, you were off a little bit!). Excellent guestimating. On behalf of Maureen, I’d like to thank everyone who participated in our little exercise in Urban Archaeology. Great group effort. This just goes to show you the enormous pool of talent & knowledge that we have here at TC.

**Mahalo All!

A-A**

"Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness."
-Pablo Picasso

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua on 2005-01-03 13:24 ]

Thanks for the great time I had reading this thread.

Aaron, Great job on following this through to a fact filled conclusion. Now see if you can persuade the owner to restore & protect it. That would be the happiest ending!!

Having the story behind an object can only increase it's value, your friend may want to ask more questions of Ms. Sherwood's neighbors, any surviving friends, her agent or other people who might know of the piece's provenance. Throw in a copy of that Disneyland photo & a "Blonde Savage" movie poster, too.

This topic was a superb read, interesting and informative. It reinforces the best things about Tiki Central: loads of knowledgable members ready to share info and experience. Plus, it yet again illustrates how cool everyone is at OA. Over the years I've aked quite a few questions of the wise men, and each time I've gotten back more that I would ever have anticipated. They're the best.

Nice tiki. Whomever ends up with it will have one neat item. Hope it gets protected, restored a bit.

You can see one of these babies in it's original glory on page 42 of the BOT. Unfortunately Taschen likes to run the images to the edge of the page so it's head got cut off...
BUT the owner should get a copy of the new "TIKI STYLE" mini-BOT, where I was able to use the picture without the side and top being cropped so much.

The photo is from one of Steve Crane's Kon-Tikis, as the Luau logo Tiki table lamp shows, and it shows our protagonist in it's natural environment.

Page 52 sir!

Oooops, yes, thanks, it's page 52 in the Big BOT, and the full image is page 42 in the Mini-BOT.

Thanks, Bigbro. I never noticed that. It's a great picture because it shows how this fellow would look fully restored with its own natural wood color.

I'd love to carve a smaller replica of this piece someday. It would be great to get a piece of that Apitan tropical hardwood that Bob mentioned. Does anyone out there know where such an exotic wood could be obtained (short of traveling to Samoa)?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On a separate note, Maureen told me that she probably wouldn't be up to restoring this piece herself, and that she is considering selling it "as-is". I'll keep you guys posted on this.

A-A

On 2005-01-05 15:54, Aaron's Akua wrote:
I'd love to carve a smaller replica of this piece someday. It would be great to get a piece of that Apitan tropical hardwood that Bob mentioned. Does anyone out there know where such an exotic wood could be obtained (short of traveling to Samoa)?

A-A, I found some info on the wood: Latin name Pygeum turnerianum, it's also called Humeg in parts of Indonesia & it's trade name is "Wild Almond" (one of several plants with this name unfortunately). It's also connected to the Prunus turneriana or "Almond Bark." It seems the bark of the Prunus species is collected as an herbal remedy for prostate & urinary tract problems, but I'm not finding the wood for sale.

Freddie, I had no luck finding a supplier of this wood either. I did find some interesting info on the "Wild Almond" tree, though:

"Called pinari in Tamil, the wild almond's botanical name is Sterculia foetida, a tell-tale name for it gives off a very offensive odour when in flower: Sterculia from a word meaning dung and foetida meaning stinking"

To avoid the stench, I think I'll try carving something a little more domestic for my replica. Maureen is going to send me some measurements & photos for reference.

Maureen has decided to put Tiki "X" up for sale, so I put together a post in the tiki Marketplace for her: Mysterious Tiki "X" Up For Sale. Thanks to all who have contributed to this post.

A-A

Aloha,
Aaron asked me to post an image of the little tiki I carved for the red cross benifit at the lucky tiki.
He stands around 1.5 feet high (I think??) and is carved from a redwood 4x4 and was based upon this very cool "mysteriuous tiki 'x'".

I really like it. Looks great! Almost like a Witco.
I want to add that the way the grain comes out, makes it look like it's underwater, undulating.

[ Edited by: Jungle Trader on 2005-03-03 20:40 ]

On 2005-03-03 20:39, Jungle Trader wrote:
...the way the grain comes out, makes it look like it's underwater, undulating.

I can totally see that now... after a few drinks in the dimly lit Lucky Tiki... hanging out at the bar next to tiki X...

That is really outstanding, Polynesiac. He has sort of a whimsical look... love the rope at the base... great interpretation of a classic! Thanks for posting that. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person one day at the Lucky Tki.

A-A

I feel bad I missed this thread so long ago, I was without a computer for 2 months.
Did this ever sell?
Polynesiac , that is a very sweet carving. I also like the rope.

THanks for the comps everyone.

speaking of undulating...the night of the benifit Bobby had a great idea of using this guy as a pencil holder...can you guess where the pencil went????

Uhhhh, behind his ear?

I just figured it out. Oh the horror! No tiki should ever be treated this way.

Ooooooh that's gotta hurt!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On 2005-03-03 22:22, rodeotiki wrote:
Did this ever sell?
Polynesiac , that is a very sweet carving. I also like the rope.

The last I heard (some time ago), Ron "Bongofury" had worked a deal with Maureen and was going to pick up the tiki that weekend. I'm assuming all went well, and Tiki "X" now resides with a prominent member of the TC Ohana. Great ending to this story. I understand that Ron owns several vintage O.A. tikis, including a 6'-0", 7'-6", and a whopping 12'-8". Here's an interesting post on Ron's O.A. tikis.

And another.

And on the infamous "Rincon Room".

Sadly, it looks like the "Rincon Room" will be closing soon. I wish Ron the best and look forward to hearing of a new Rincon Room (or further incarnation) soon.

It's fascinating how some of these posts start and where they finally end up.

I'm hoping to do my own carving of Tiki 'X' sometime in the near future.

Cheers!

A-A

Love your carving Polynesiac! That thing does look like it's moving. Thanks to Aaron and Maureen, Tiki X is sitting outside our home bar. Maureen is a wonderful person and has similar taste in mid-century decor. We had bought some resin/sand mod fish from her a while back at the Rose Bowl swap. She came up and visited last week and found that we also had the same art-fish picture that she has.

A-A:

what's the word on the replica of Tiki X? making any progress on it?

Aloha Palama,

I'm putting final varnish coats on 2 projects right now (will post soon), and started work on 2 more (one is a full body Lono). Tiki "X" is next on my list right after that. Thanks for askin'!

A-A

I stumbled on this picture at Philtotem's (french) tiki website from a link that Rodeotiki sent me.

It seems our mysterious friend Tiki "X" gets around!

This guy Phil is an unbelievably talented carver. Check his website. Too bad it's all in french.

Cheers,

Aaron

Yes, I know Phil Totem's work. He's gonna let us have a few pieces at the Paradirama Exhibition (check out the event thread).
He's a very talented artist

Here's a new version of "tiki x" I just finished up. He's a wee fella - only about 3.25" tall, but full of festive delight.

Bongo, I don't remember seeing this guy in your fabulous rincon room...is he still there?

speaking of still being there...Aaron - what's up with you? You ever carve your version of "x"? I think I'm going to do a 4 footer of him next, but a little different.

maybe I'm speaking to ghosts of TC past now, tho.