Converting 151° Demerara into 80° Demerara

Gents,

Hi, it's been a while since I've posted here at Tiki Central. The only Lemon Hart (and the only Demerara rum period) that's distributed in this area if the LH 151 (I know, poor me, right?). Problem is that I need way more of the 80° Demerara for everyday use, and I'm tired of mail ordering it. The 80° Dem is nothing but the 151° that's been diluted by the addition of distilled water to bring it down to 40% abv (Alcohol By Volume, which is 1/2 of the "proof"). So I want to take the LH 151 that I can buy locally and dilute it with distilled water down to 80°. Can someone help me with my math regarding how much water to add to a 750ml bottle of 151to bring it down to 80 proof?

If I'm calculating correctly, dividing 75.5 (the abv of the 151) by 40 (abv of the 80 proof) = 1.88. That's 88%.
Multiplying 25.5 (ounces in a standard 750ml bottle) 88% = 22.35.
So would adding 22.35 ounces of distilled water to a 750 bottle of LH 151 yield me a bottle of standard 80 proof LH?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-03 22:05 ]

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-03 22:59 ]

I was an English major, I'll handle this...

25.5 total oz, times 75.5% alcohol= 19.25 oz alcohol in the bottle of 151 proof.

X total oz, times 40% alcohol= 19.25 oz alcohol in the pitcher of resulting 80 proof rum.

X = 19.25 divided by .40 = 48.1 total oz in the flagon of home-made 80 proof rum.

48.1 - 25.5= 22.6 oz water needed to reduce the original bottle of 151 proof to an 80 proof bucket of Guyanese rum.

Thanks Porpoise! We Political Science majors suck at math!!

Plus you end up with almost twice as much hootch - BONUS! :D

Before you do this with a whole bottle, I suggest mixing 2.5 oz. LH151 and 2.25 oz. water, and taste testing against LH80 - if you have any left. Otherwise, test against your best recollection.
I'm just concerned you might find the flavor over-diluted, along with the ABV.

I had contemplated a similar experiment, but in the opposite direction - boosting from 80° to 151°, using Everclear. I couldn't get 151, here, until very recently.

You are not just reducing the alcohol content, but reducing the flavor (Watering down)
you will not get the same results as just buying a bottle of El Dorado 12
to use instead of the LH80, so your math is flawed, sorry.

On 2012-02-04 13:27, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
You are not just reducing the alcohol content, but reducing the flavor (Watering down)
you will not get the same results as just buying a bottle of El Dorado 12
to use instead of the LH80, so your math is flawed, sorry.

I'm not trying to recreate El Dorado 12; I use El Dorado 5yr or 80 proof LH (which is 4-5 years of age) as my standard Dem pour. The 80 proof LH version is just the 151 with water added to dilute it to bottling proof, so this should work. The 151 is essentially 'rum concentrate'; like most spirits distilled in column stills, rum comes off the still at a very high proof (190ish for most brands) and distilled water is added to bring the spirits down to their bottling proof. Spirits distilled in pot stills are typically distilled to below 160 proof, and water is added to bring them to bottling proof as well ( unless they are to be sold at full proof, as you see in "Barrel Proof" Bourbons for example). My only issue was the math involved in figuring out how much water to add to approximate 80 proof.

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-04 14:51 ]

Here is a timely discussion of this challenge with Ed Hamilton.

http://www.killingtime.com/Pegu/2012/02/04/an-interview-with-ed-hamilton-us-importer-of-lemon-hart-151-among-others/

On 2012-02-04 15:33, rev_thumper wrote:
Here is a timely discussion of this challenge with Ed Hamilton.

http://www.killingtime.com/Pegu/2012/02/04/an-interview-with-ed-hamilton-us-importer-of-lemon-hart-151-among-others/

Thank you for posting that link Rev, it's required reading for Tiki cocktail fans everywhere!

And a quote from said article:

"I’ve found you get the best results from using a ratio of 2 parts LH151 to 1 part water to make up the required volume of LH80 in the original recipe. I’m willing to accept the hardship of a slightly higher alcohol content to reach the flavor I remember."

I asked this question of The Man himself, Ed Hamilton, aka The Minister of Rum, who imports Lemon Hart to the USA:

http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5778

Here's what he said:

"That is very close Craig,. If it was 160 proof, twice what you see on your store shelves, you could just add 750ml to reduce the alcohol by half. But since this is ((151/80 *750)-750)/29.57 ml/ounce = 22.5 ounces.

How the water is added is important. You could just add this in a larger bottle and shake it up, but I would suggest adding an ounce every few hours and stirring it as you go. This is a chemical reaction.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has tried both methods.

It doesn't look good for getting Lemon Hart 80 any time soon in the US. "

He also added this note about the type of water that should be used to dilute the 151 down to 80 proof:

"My water of choice would be limestone filtered water like that found in Kentucky. I would avoid anything with chlorine in it such as most municipal water. Deionized is good, but the real test is to try it and taste it. Then you will taste the differences for yourself. Definitely avoid hard water from a municipal supply."

This is great news for Demerara lovers who have access to LH 151.

oh yeah, i meant to say +/- .1 oz...

what i've done where a drink calls for 80 proof demerara and i've only got 151 proof (navy grogs), is use about 3/4 of the recipe amount so that i still get a lot of the flavor without doubling the alcohol i'm using.

Aloha Cincy, did you run your experiment yet? How did it turn out?

On 2012-02-08 10:26, simplydlacruz wrote:
Aloha Cincy, did you run your experiment yet? How did it turn out?

As a matter of fact, I am running the experiment as I write this. I experimented with diluting a small sample of LH151 tonight and the results are highly encouraging. I picked up a new bottle of LH151 today. I added .8oz of bottled spring water to 1oz of LH151 and shook it to mix. I'm trying the diluted LH it against some ElDo5 right now, and frankly the diluted LH blows the ElDo5 away in terms of sheer flavor. Where the ElDo5 has sweetness but lacks smokiness and richness, the diluted LH has smoke, spice, 'funk' (I mean that in a good way!), and the rich sweetness of classic Demerara rum on the finish. I can't wait to try this in a Navy Grog.

The water is somewhat detectable in the diluted LH151, and the Eldo5 has a (very) slightly better mouthfeel, but I think that when the LH & water are mixed correctly (slowly, a little bit at a time, and stirred as per Ed Hamilton's directions) the result will be a more than acceptable replacement for the mail order ElDo5 in my cocktails.

I'm going to take half the bottle of LH151 and incorporate the bottled spring water into a decanter very slowly over the next couple of days. I'll post the results after this weekend's round of cocktails.

Mahalo,

Craig

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-08 22:09 ]

I hope you are using the new label. Diluting a bottle of the old just doesn't seem right.

Aloha and an update,

I have confirmed the findings from my experiment in the above post with diluting the LH151, and confirmed it in spades. I diluted half the new bottle of LH151 that I bought this week, adding the water slowly, 2 ounces at a time, over the course of 2 days, stirring as I blended as Ed Hamilton suggested. I let the finished product rest for a day, and it is, well, WOW!!! There's ZERO diluted taste, and the flavor simply blows ElDo5 away. Here are a couple of pictures of the 3 Dems in my bar; Eldo5, the diluted LH151 (in the decanter), and the full throttle LH151. Note the color differences in the 3 Dems, particularly how pale the ElDo5 is by comparison to the diluted LH:

I made a Navy Grog with the "diluted" LH tonight, and by the gods, it's the BEST Navy Grog that I've ever had. From here on out I only buy the LH151 and dilute it, at least until the LH80 hits the American market again. Aside from the wonderful flavor, the best part is the price; the 750ml equivalent price for the "diluted" LH is $13.25. With shipping I was paying nearly $19 for ElDo5.

Mahalo,

Craig

Awesome! Great thread and info CT Craig! I, for one, really appreciate this info. Good job!!

Cheers!

how did you make your navy grog CTC?

On 2012-02-13 11:04, thePorpoise wrote:
how did you make your navy grog CTC?

I use my favorite recipe, it's a combination of DTD & TV's recipes;

.75oz White Grapefruit Juice
.75 Lime Juice
1oz Honey Syrup
1oz White VI Rums
1oz Dark Jamaican (I prefer Coruba)
1oz Demerara
.25oz Allspice (Pimento) Dramm (I use St Elizabeth)

Mix in a top down blender w/ crushed ice for 5 seconds.

This is my favorite cocktail, Tiki or otherwise!

Mahalo,

Craig

pretty close to how i make mine, except i throw in an ounce of club soda, and my rums are often 3 oz mix of dark/demerara.

is your honey syrup 50/50 water/honey?

[ Edited by: thePorpoise 2012-02-13 16:55 ]

Porpoise,

I typically use 2:1 Rich Honey syrup, which is widely believed is what the Mai Kai uses. It adds a luxurious texture to cocktails. i also use local organic honey that I get at one of the local farmers markets, which has a really great taste.I use club soda too occasionally, especially if I'm making NG's for a group of people-they get pretty expensive to pour for a group!

I also use 2:1 honey to water, but I only add 3/4 oz of the honey syrup to my grog. (drinking one now, using 3 oz of ED 15).

On 2012-02-13 21:11, thePorpoise wrote:
I also use 2:1 honey to water, but I only add 3/4 oz of the honey syrup to my grog. (drinking one now, using 3 oz of ED 15).

3oz of ElDo15?? Holy cow, I want one of those too!! :D

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-13 21:29 ]

This is interesting. El Do 80 is a 6 hour round trip drive or mail order to get, but I bought over a case of the old stock LH 151. I usually sub Appleton or other dark rum for Demerara 80 to avoid going through my supply. I will have to turn 1 bottle of LH 151 into 2 bottles of LH 80 soon and have plenty for a while!

So it's 22.5oz water for a full 750ml bottle?

Want to try this tonight! Thanks for the research!

On 2012-02-24 15:02, happy buddha wrote:
So it's 22.5oz water for a full 750ml bottle?

Want to try this tonight! Thanks for the research!

Yep, that's what Ed Hamilton (AKA, The Minister of Rum and the importer of LH) worked out when he did the math. And that amount of water works too. Get a bottle of still spring water, it'll make for a better finished product than typical chlorinated tap water will make.

Cheers and happy drinking!

Considering this is 151, I took all precautions to prevent evaporization first. I want to refill my 80 proof bottle. So I poured 14 oz of water in first and marked the label and emptied. Then I used the pour spout on the 151 bottle and poured 14 ounces in with my palm covering the opening and then immediately corked the bottle and let it rest. Now I add 11 oz of distilled water the same way to keep it sealed. Now I am shaking it with the cork on to prevent evaporization rather than stirring. This gives me one 750 bottle of 80 proof and I have the rest of the 151 to use.

In case anyone interested didn't see my earlier post, I used the same approach in creating Lemon Hart 114 proof:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=42945&forum=10&10

Used it a Navy Grog the other day with great results.