A thrift store hypothetical question...

Say you're an artist and you paint a portrait...now say you finish it, sign it and donate it to the Goodwill...now say someone buys your painting from the Goodwill...does that make you a professional artist? I mean you've technically now had your work on display and better yet sold it! I pondered that while gazing at the hideous blue and pink toned still life at the thrift store this afternoon...

my vote would be "no, not an artist"

maybe they bought the painting just for the frame..

elicia
PS: why DOES it often cost more to mat and frame art than the art itself?

Vincent Van Gough only sold one painting in his lifetime. So you could say, hypotheticaly, they're just like Van Gough.
Mahalo,
Al

http://vincentvangogh.8m.com/biography.html

[ Edited by: Alnshely on 2004-06-02 19:11 ]

...ask mister language persun!

(c'mon all you writers out there, chime in!)

On 2004-06-02 17:57, johntiki wrote:
Say you're an artist and you paint a portrait...now say you finish it, sign it and donate it to the Goodwill...now say someone buys your painting from the Goodwill...does that make you a professional artist? I mean you've technically now had your work on display and better yet sold it!

well, no you didnt sell it. and you didnt gain monetary reward. You donated it. Goodwill realized the profit, not you. The operative word here is "profession" You are not a professional artist because it is not your profession.
you must define your terms here: Professional is someone who is actively
participating for gain or livelihood, (their means of support or subsistence) in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs.
je' like if yer playing golf and win a bet on the links. Just cuz ya got money from golf , yer still an amateur.
Now, create and sell a painting about once a month, getting closer. but these are still avocations.

ah screw it...You're an artist.

It's like the punch line to that Lenny Bruce bit about a Jeannie taking over a candy store. An old man walks in and asks the Jeannie if he can make him a malted. '"I'm the jeannie, I can do anything" says the Jeannie. "Alright, alright then make me a malted" says the old man. "Okay" says the Jeannie. "You're a malted!"

On 2004-06-02 17:57, johntiki wrote:
Say you're an artist and you paint a portrait...now say you finish it, sign it and donate it to the Goodwill...now say someone buys your painting from the Goodwill...does that make you a professional artist?

yer still an artist. aint dat gud enuff!?

"call me a cab"
"ok, you're a cab!"

Just because some people get paid for some of the crap they slap together does not make them artists.

On 2004-06-02 19:11, Alnshely wrote:
Vincent Van Gough only sold one painting in his lifetime. So you could say, hypotheticaly, they're just like Van Gough.
Mahalo,
Al

http://vincentvangogh.8m.com/biography.html

[ Edited by: Alnshely on 2004-06-02 19:11 ]

Yeah, but didn't van Gough sell that piece to his brother Theo? Isn't that kinda like "selling" your art to your parents? I guess pity sales count...

I think you all are getting too hung up on textbook definitions. Wasn't it said that art, and by extension - an artist, is in the eye of the beholder.

That's the beauty of any artistic endeavor, it's whatever you want it to be.

Hitler was a painter before he got, shall we say, into politics. So was he an artist?

stalin did some fabulous work with fabrics and textures :)

not

hey j-tiki, the paintings i tend to see in thrift stores strike me as "decorative arts" more than "art." just my 2% of a dollar.

On 2004-06-02 18:03, dogbytes wrote:

PS: why DOES it often cost more to mat and frame art than the art itself?

Tell me about it, i have a half dozen paintings & lithos waiting for me to get the cash together for framing. As far as being an artist or not, i wouldnt be able to tell ya, I would think other artist will be able to tell ya that.

You're an artist if the desire to create art is the foremost concern in your life after food, shelter and clothing.

You're an artist if you create daily, because someting inside you compells you to do it, not because there's a profit motive.

You're an artist if the creative process and the creative outlet are what define you as a person.

Now, whether or not you're a GOOD artist...

or whether or not people besides your mom want your art...

and are willing to pay for it...

is another story.

As pointed out above: you're a 'professional' artist if the majority of your income is derived from the art.

To me, a "professional artist" is sort of an oxymoron. I think "monetarily successful" artist would be more appropriate.

To say anyone would be considered an artist if they have a passion for it, but a "professional" artist is one that derives a majority of their income from sales, is like saying anyone can be a lover, but a "professional" lover is a prostitute.

**** PLEASE NOTE **** the proceeding was just a thought, don't jump on the U-Moderate over it.

On 2004-06-03 11:13, Tiki_Bong wrote:
To me, a "professional artist" is sort of an oxymoron. I think "monetarily successful" artist would be more appropriate.

I agree, a standard definition of a writer is "someone who has written," you don't become an ex-writer simply because you no longer write, & you aren't an "Ex-professional Writer" simply because you no longer can get anyone to buy your work. If you have sold ANYTHING you can be considered a pro, no matter that you can't sell anything else.

To say anyone would be considered an artist if they have a passion for it, but a "professional" artist is one that derives a majority of their income from sales, is like saying anyone can be a lover, but a "professional" lover is a prostitute.

I think that you're a pro once you've sold anything, whether you continue or not. But I'm still not certain that you can consider donating a painting to Goodwill or the Sal Army a "Sale." Could you be consider yourself remunerated if you get a receipt & write it off your taxes?

**** PLEASE NOTE **** the proceeding was just a thought, don't jump on the U-Moderate over it.

I've already said nice things about you on U-Moderate, don't most people?

[ Edited by: freddiefreelance on 2004-06-03 11:45 ]

On 2004-06-03 09:09, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Hitler was a painter before he got, shall we say, into politics. So was he an artist?

Emphatically not. He painted houses. and any housepainter would most likely not wanna be called an artist, at least not in front of his other subcontractor buddies...

On 2004-06-03 12:31, lanikai wrote:

On 2004-06-03 09:09, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Hitler was a painter before he got, shall we say, into politics. So was he an artist?

Emphatically not. He painted houses. and any housepainter would most likely not wanna be called an artist, at least not in front of his other subcontractor buddies...

Sorry Lanikai, but he was not a house painter but rather a painter of country scenes in his 20's. Did you ever read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

http://www.hitler.org/art/

It seems a number of your posts quote my previous posts (?). Glad I inspire you with thought.

You seem like a nice chap and we should get toast a mai tai sometime.

"I'm ashamed to be here, but not too ashamed to leave..."

Celebrate 'International Tiki Day' the second Saturday in August - hau'oli la tiki!

[ Edited by: Tiki_Bong on 2004-06-03 12:52 ]

There, Now Unga Artist!
(Done with computer mouse.)
On sale at Ebay tomorrow.

can i get a CafePress mug and mousepad of that?

p.s. http://www.saddamhussein.com

[ Edited by: Johnny Dollar on 2004-06-03 14:19 ]

Case exmamples -- two different people

1. Person A, influenced by the high prices and financial success of Thomas Kincaid paintings, watches some public access art shows, spends $1000 on painting supplies, and paints 100 paintings, with the idea of selling them for $300 each and getting a nice profit.

Even though he thinks his paintings look fine, he ends up selling only 3 or 4 of them, at discounted prices. He feels he is a failure. He drives to a thrift in a community where nobody knows him, and donates the paintings to a thrift store, mostly so he can say he made a donaton to charity on next year's tax forms.

2. Person B .... retired, financially stable, but has lots of free time on his hand. He spends most of his money on painting supplies, and paints. He leaves his paintings on deserted street corners late at night, or in thrift store donation bins, or even gives away his paintings to customers at the local coffeee shop. He refuses to take money for his artwork, as his reward comes from the smiles of the people who unexpectedly find his artwork.

Even if people in reality hate his artwork, and toss them in the trash when he is not looking, he is under the illusion that he is making the world a better place.

Under the above scenarios, person A is the more successful professional artist - as he has actually sold several paintings. But I would argue that person B is the real artist, because art is not just about creating a product to sell, but about creating a lifestyle and an environment about you that speaks to your own unique dreams, even if nobody else understands that dream.

Vern

On 2004-06-03 12:42, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Sorry Lanikai, but he was not a house painter but rather a painter of country scenes in his 20's. Did you ever read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

..and some of these country scenes contained houses, which made him a house painter.
:wink:

On 2004-06-03 13:45, Unga Bunga wrote:
(Done with computer mouse.)
On sale at Ebay tomorrow.

swell, you told TikiCentral, now someone will snipe this from me.. :evil:

dont forget to put 'shag' in the description!

elicia

Well put Vern!

Hitler was a painter before he got, shall we say, into politics. So was he an artist?

Emphatically not. He painted houses. and any housepainter would most likely not wanna be called an artist, at least not in front of his other subcontractor buddies...

Sorry Lanikai, but he was not a house painter but rather a painter of country scenes in his 20's.

i did not know that!
I stand corrected!

happy to learn sumpin erry day. really!
(being 1/5th German.... Dhooo!)

Did you ever read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

happy to admit I have not

It seems a number of your posts quote my previous posts (?). Glad I inspire you with thought.

well... ya know... great minds think alike.

You seem like a nice chap and we should toast a mai tai sometime.

I will drink to dat!

( lanikai, you'll drink to anything!)

Wether you sell it or not, you are still a painter....wether it's "art" or not is in the eye of the consumer....