Von Franco/Crazy Al Chalice

The corpse is not even cold and they are already on ebay, this is so sickening for me who was too far away to attend, this is pathetic, this is...man I can not even begin to say how this ticks me off, nuff said.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29460&item=3920989290&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2001&item=3920971412&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Tiki are like potato chips, you can never just have one

[ Edited by: Tiki-Toa on 2004-07-11 19:43 ]

[ Edited by: tiki-toa on 2004-07-12 13:46 ]

Maybe I am missing your sarcasm, but why do you have a problem with these on EBAY? Is not TiKi about pleasure, Pleasure of the drink, (Floratina said it well when at Bongo Fury’s Rincon Room opening, upon her first sip of a Reverb Kick, She made a chattering sound, smacked her lips and said, “Ahaaa alcohol!”) Pleasure of the music, of the mug, of the bamboo, the waves of Baxter on the record player…and the greatest pleasure of all, scoring a few hundred bucks on a sale of something you got and I want?

[ Edited by: bananabobs on 2004-07-11 23:47 ]

Why the sarcasm, well one I am just jealous of those that were able to attend when I was not. But what ticks me off is those that go only to get something that they know if they get one they will do their best to make as many bucks from it while they can, and I have nothing against that, BUT when a guy says "I really hate to sell this and I’d love to keep it, but I can’t afford to....is not only a very cool item, but also a proven INVESTMENT." then how did you spend the money in the first place. But it is the idea that these people, and there is now a third person who has posted another chalice on ebay, by buying the chalice kept someone else who was there for the event that if they had the opportunity to obtain one would have kept it and appreciated it for more than 24 hours. To me the people that bought these and posted them on ebay have shown NO APPRECIATION to Crazy Al, Von Franco, and Bamboo Ben for the hard work that they put in to design, and make not only the Chalice but this event be the event that it was! So does that better explain my hard feelings about seeing these items on ebay?

Tiki are like potato chips, you can never just have one

[ Edited by: Tiki-Toa on 2004-07-12 00:22 ]

Last night at the show, I heard several collectors say the following right after buying items.......
"I'm a collector, this is going in my house, not on Ebay".

I think its great that so many true collectors of Tiki were there last night and felt so seriously about their collection and intentions.

In every hobby you have collectors and businessman. Obviously the people who bought those chalices for ebay are about business and money. But for every few of those, theres a dozen that are into it for the pleasure of collecting. Besides, for those people out of state, ebay may be the only chance they have to get one.

You had to figure these would end up on Ebay. Its a one time collaboration of 4 great Tiki artists. Hey I'm not surprised they didn't sell them on ebay before the show, like the did with the shag mugs.

Hey, don't feel too bad about not getting one. I promoted the show, and didn't get one last night either.

Erich

Being a good Capitalist, I realize that my fortune is made on the broken backs of my business rivals. It is a dog eat dog world and I do not begrudge anyone a profit. However I have met many of these hard working artisans and craftsmen and I know it can be difficult professions to be in. For instance, if a mug is produced you have a designer, a factory, import-export headaches, language barriers, Shipping problems, and a thousand things I can't imagine. When these mugs are sold the money is hard won. When someone turns that mug around for a quick, easy $100.00 profit it isn't exactly fair. The worst example of this profiteering I've seen was at disneyland. About a thousand people were waiting in line for 500 prints that were being reserved with a wristband they distibuted to the people in the front of the line till they were out. The wristband got you two prints at $350.00 each. A guy at the front of the line buys two prints, walks to the back of the line and sells one for $700.00. That is more than Shag was making on these. It's not really fair this guy gets two when people in line, who were waiting for hours, get none. I see the frustration of people who would prefer the artist makes the dough instead of profiteers.
Mahalo,
Al

My #45 is screwed to the wall, and proudly displayed above the left side of our bar.
Signed by the 3 Artist, even Ben (made him sign the roof)
I think someday I will just put my whole room on E-Bay, buy it all for one low price, and don't mind the dead Baxdog in the corner he stopped biting years ago!!
Great show, fun products
Do it again do it again

In your post on TC, you forgot to mention the hard work from Tiki Farm, Erich Troudt and J.R. Mc Nasty.

I apologize to the above for not metioning their hard work also in this event, to Holden, Erich, and J.R. HUGE PROPS for the work you did in making this event happen I am sure without you guys it would not have happened and been the outstanding rockin' event that it was. You all need to be recognized just as equally.

[ Edited by: Tiki-Toa on 2004-07-12 09:24 ]

The event was a busy one and there were lots of people there but the $100 mugs were not hard to come by.

I did not have to wait in line to get one. In fact we all had dinner and drank and 2 hours after the selling had begun, there were still several remaining. Anyone who attended and REALLY wanted one (ie-showed up on time) got one.

Its not like the Disney event where people actually showed up with the express intent of buying mugs/prints etc. and could not get any.

The price point might have been a little higher than the casual mug collector is willing to spend ($100). As I understand it, the $10 mugs were gone long before the chalice. Paying 3 artists and a manufacturer for 50 items must carry a higher price for anyone to break even.

By the way, the chalice is really cool. Al's resin work on the pedestal is top notch. Looks like real wood.

Maybe I should have sent someone the hundred for them to get me one? And the price point was decent at least in my mind for the fact of the work that went into the Chalice by all of the artists (VF, Al, BamBen) and the Farm in making it.

I agree with Monkeyman - the chalices were not sold out in minutes. They were available for hours. Whoever was there and wanted them could have gotten them.
I, because of a misunderstanding with my wife and another TC member, ended up with 2 chalices. I decided I'm keeping one, and will sell the other one at a later date, as I feel it's not the nicest thing to put it on e-bay so quick.

Great design and workmanship, btw!

Ran

On 2004-07-12 16:07, kick_the_reverb wrote:
I agree with Monkeyman - the chalices were not sold out in minutes. They were available for hours. Whoever was there and wanted them could have gotten them.
I, because of a misunderstanding with my wife and another TC member, ended up with 2 chalices. I decided I'm keeping one, and will sell the other one at a later date, as I feel it's not the nicest thing to put it on e-bay so quick.

Great design and workmanship, btw!

Ran

So any chance of you being nice and that you would sell it to me for the cost? Or even better why not offer it to one of the artists or promoters who did not even get one, now that would be cool instead of being nice and waiting to put it on ebay. :wink:

Supportive comments are great, showing up in support is even better

[ Edited by: Tiki-Toa on 2004-07-12 16:36 ]

It is true. The Chalices were available from about 7:30 to 9:30. At 9:00 pm there was about 4 left. I think the "floor model" sold right before 10:00pm.

I still have a few limited edition prints available, and are taking t-shirt orders until friday if anyone is interested.

[ Edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 16:48 ]

I feel your pain TT. The Tiki mug is perhaps to sacred to resell. But then is reselling a mug different than reselling cars, stocks, grocerys, services ect...? Do you resell anything in your line of work? Ebay has a bad rap many times. Off the top of my head I know 5 people who make a living or more likely a partial living on ebay, 4 of those are single Moms getting by. I don't advocate making a living sponging off us nutcase collectors but then again the person having this action may have a very good reason for this auction. Many of us (me and you included) who could not make it to this party, we now have a chance to get it. It's way out of my price range for that mug but that is irrelavent.

Actually the funny thing is that other then the Marines I have spent the majority of my working life in some king of service enviroment, including selling new/used vehicles which I did not do so well at because I was to honest, McDougal you made a necklace for me of something that I wanted, just like Benzart is doing and also Flounder. What I paid is small compaired to the joy I got from getting your necklace that you made for me, or the joy I know I will feel when I get the pieces from Flounder and Ben. To me the Chalice is kind of truly the Holy Grail now in a way, because of how scarce it is, but it really sucks to hear some guy say how he cannot afford it and then call it a great investment in the next breath, yeah it is, for him if somebody is willing to pay the $350 he is asking, I truly hope that some of these people that bought them with the idea of making out on the ones that could not be there, do not sell them, but I know that there will be some that bought it and will have to sell it just to help pay the bills, hey I was one of the people that bought a second Gecko(somewhat not intentionally)to help someone buy an engagement ring. But like many mugs that I covet I figure someday somehow it will be the right place and time for me to have it, good thing I am patient.

I like Tiki-Toa. I go to yard sales, church sales, flea markets, etcetera. "Buyer/sellers" advance on the above mentioned like a swarm of locusts. They are generally pushy, rude, unprincipaled people. Yeah, it's a way to make a living, but I for one, like to lay my head on my pillow at night and know that I've been a decent human being. The above mentioned are, in my opinion, a lower life form.

"....but also a proven INVESTMENT."

Being a pretty involved collector for the past 27 years ago in things other than tiki (I helped publish a book on Brewery advertising a few years back, most of our collection is turn of the century to the 1950s), I would like to say that most "limited editions" have never proven to be much of an "investment" if they are specifically made for a collector's market.

Collect "limited editions" if you love em, but don't be fooled that they're going to put your kids through school. It didn't work for beer cans, teddy bears, beanie babies,ball cards, etc. At some point in time, people are going to wake up to the fact that another "limited edition" will be out tomorrow as long as there is a market for it. That's what is called a "trend", which some have found to be pretty profitable. The problem is that at some point in time there becomes a glut in the market for this stuff. Worse yet, people are going to wake up to the fact that this heroine they are being offered never goes away and they burn out from the hobby. Trust me, it's happened with many other collectibles.

That being said, I like some of my Shag stuff, but I like it because it looks great, not because it's going to be worth a lot in the future (It won't).

To be perfectly honest, paying $350 bucks for something that came out last week is ridiculous.

Trust me, invest in something with a little age to, especially if it was originally made to be thrown away, if it's money you're interested in.

Wish I took High School ceramics more seriously. Think of the money I could have made as long as I came up with a fancy name behind it.

Then again, that's only my opinion. Take it for whatever it's worth. That, and $350 bucks will buy ya an expensive cup of coffee in a chalise that may be still hot out of the oven. But as P.T. Barnum once said (although I heard that he never really did say it)......

Greg

Gotta get back to ebay now

Greg

"To me the Chalice is kind of truly the Holy Grail now in a way, because of how scarce it is"

I'm with you in wanting this mug badly TT. But consider why it is so scarce? Was it produced in 50 because it could only be? If ebay did not exist would the edition still have been 50? You lavish praise on the creaters (for good reason!) and insult the sellers, but it is the creators who made this "Limited Edition" work which often fuels the ebay Tiki mug market, I think you should consider.

Wish I took High School ceramics more seriously. Think of the money I could have made as long as I came up with a fancy name behind it.
Greg

Gotta get back to ebay now

Greg

Well, since our name isn't that Fancy but more kind of a Tiki "podunk" name, he can't mean us but if this guy only knew what it takes to make it happen in any manufacturing endeavor (especially that of ceramics w/offshore competition knock-offs arriving daily), this statement wouldn't have come off as so lame. True for any company that succeeds - and we hope to succeed... some day I hope...I hope!
Mahaloz,
Holden

Ribeerguy, I have dealt in vintage Tiki, Hawaiiana, Surf & Skate for the last 12 years and I like to think I have done it well...I think your opinion and yes it is your opinion that these things will not be worth much. But I have to disagree...there is value in what makes someone feel good and if buying a 100.00 chalise makes someone feel good then so be it...it is worth more than they paid for it...no some of these items will not put kids through college but they have merit...and they have value...and you dont have to like it but these limited edition will go up in value...we are not talking about random "COLLECTIBLES" put out by Time Life or the US Mint...we are talking about excellent pieces of Modern Art...the Tiki Farm, Munktiki, Tiki Diablo etc etc limited editions have their proud place in collections...
If you are a dealer/collector you know that some limited editions do have their place..
Holden I am proud to own one and have it in my home.

Holden! Great to see you here. We're all looking forward to the new mugs & artists.

[ Edited by: MachTiki on 2004-07-13 07:14 ]

Guys,

If you read my post again, I'm not saying there's not a place for limited editions. I have some and enjoy them. What I was commenting on was the "for investment" statement.

What I'm saying is that the original ebay ad ran something "for investment" which some others also commented on. All I'm saying is that at some time there will be a point where a value hits it's peak due to supply and demand. The more "limited editions" that hit the market, the less there will be a demand for them.

I'm not criticizing the talents of the manufacturers, or the items themselves.

And yes, I think it's crazy paying $350 for something sold for $100 a week earlier.

No offense meant by my post, honest.

greg

[ Edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 16:49 ]

Okay, I make 50 limited edition mugs, cool as they may be they aint no "Shag mug" I sell them for $25.00 and it takes months to sell. But there is the chance that they are hits and in the rush to own mugs people buy extra, kick the price way up and put them on E-bay the same day, I still only got $25.00 a mug, Oh but wait...I'm gonna get bank for the next edition eh? I don't really care for Picasco's stuff, (all in all) but I willingly paid thousands for a litho, I have a better appreciation for his work owning a piece and because it was difficult to obtain (spell that $$$) It helped my appreciation. All of that to say this, The mugs on E-bay did NO dis-service to the artists, even if it was not the coolest mug ever, the fury over it has increased the value and "have to have" Does that make sense?

On 2004-07-14 00:03, bananabobs wrote:
The mugs on E-bay did NO dis-service to the artists, even if it was not the coolest mug ever, the fury over it has increased the value and "have to have" Does that make sense?

BBobs, you are correct in saying that ebay does no dis-service to the artist, in some ways it may do them a service if you consider that some times a person may find an item by an artist that they did not know that either ever existed.
But that said. The consumer sets the value, period. A ebayer can "try" and sell it for what he believes is market value, bascially he is estimating what he thinks some guy will pay, and yes if some guy wants it bad enough well maybe he will pay it. But if not I guess he will either lower his price or be stuck with a very expensive drinking device that looks neat.

Aloha everyone!!!

I've read what you are all upset about, and thought I'd add my 2 cents. I'm really thankful for ebay, and have found mugs and TIKI that I would have never been able to find otherwise. I don't always agree with what they go for, but when people are willing to bid/pay for it you can't just blame the seller. I have bought lot's of TIKI on ebay in the past. I have also sold some & I think it's a great place (most of the time) for all of us to find stuff for our addictions

Have fun!!!!

p.s. ebay is also a great way for promoting all these GREAT ARTISTS! Von Franco/Crazy Al/Bamboo Ben & Tiki Farm will only benefit from all of this publicity. Look at how much we are talking about them. Next year they will be even more popular and they deserve all of it. They've been doing this for awhile. Unlike some bandwagon jumpers that are popping up!

MAHLO

By the way, if anyone hasn't followed up on the auctions, neither sold.

Actually, only one didn't sell as of yet.

One didn't sell at the price of $233.50 (over twice its original price) Because it didn't meet reserve.

The $350 has no bids with 2+ days to go.

The 3rd one has 2+ days to go and is currently bid up to $228.01

The first one didn't sell because it wasn't an "viewed as an investment" or because of lack of interest (it had 11 bids), it didn't sell because the owner appeared to be holding out for big money.

Personally, I see Ebay sales as getting recognition for the artists, allowing people who couldn't be at the event a chance to receive one, and perhaps get the mug in collectors hands that appreciate it as art, investment, and a prized piece to their collection.

Sheesh, I just wish they would make more than 50.

Personally, I think that the ideal for artists/manufacturers is to do a limited run for the really anal collectors, and a less limited run that enables the object to be available to those that really want it but either can't get to the sale event or don't want to jump through hoops to get said object. By all means, create a special signed edition of 50/100 to be sold only to those that are there on the day, but why not make another 200 less exclusive versions for those that love the design, but are not dealers or those that can make it on the night?

Surely the artist would prefer to see their work go out to a larger appreciative audience than a motley contingent of eBay profiteers and lunatics with sleeping bags and expensive mug collections? And the manufacturers certainly know the cost of making them goes down the more they make. Surely this benefits everyone?

Trader Woody