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Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop

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K

I'm curious to see if anyone here would be interested in considering an idea that has been rattling 'round in my noggin for awhile. I am the fortunate owner of a mint pair of great "tiki" boxed album sets. Allow me to explain...

The first is a 5 record collection "Songs of the South Seas" the second is "The Sounds of Hawaii" (I'm not positive of the exact title as I'm at work right now. Both are boxed sets from the late sixties and I have never seen them elsewhere. They are not available anymore as far as I can tell.

Between the two of them there are 9 records and a grand total of 108 songs. It is all really great vintage stuff that I have not seen anywhere. The real deal for a true luau.

I get alot of requests from friends that are tiki fiends to put this stuff on a CD for them. So far, I have been reluctant to bother (I guess I'm just lazy or too busy in the bar...maybe I'm a bad friend, I dunno). But it got me thinking that it is a shame to keep these to myself.

Especially when soembody might be willing to trade for a copy.

Now wait....don't stop reading, please. I know this might sound shady, I promise it's not.

Here's what I would do....

In exchange for just about anything cool you have that you might not want (say, duplicate mugs) I'd ship you a burned CD set of all the songs recorded on the best equipment I can lay my mitts on (and I have access to good studio stuff). I'll scan all the artwork and text and include it as well on a zip disc (Or I can make paper copies I suppose, but they'd be small due to album to CD size differences).

You'd have all the music and everything else.

I will not sell these (I'd be on a legal slippery slope as it is burning them for trade I think).

I'd be willing to do whatever it takes to prove the authenticity of the two albums prior to anything changing hands and assure you that this is just an honest idea from a fellow tiki freak.

I'm planning to burn them myself so I can put them on shuffle with my exotica discs anyway, and if enough folks are interested and the legality of trade is moot on such "dead" albums....

I'm really just kicking this around. Any thoughts? It's really no big deal to me if it doesn't sound doable, I mean....I have the albums myself, so it's no loss to me. I just thought it might be a cool thing to do and I might get some mugs for the trouble. Hell, it's not like my college student wallet can afford to collect the way the Ebay nuts do it.

So, watta ya think? I'll post more detailed info on the albums themselves if there is any significant response.

pele

[ Edited by: pele on 2003-01-09 21:34 ]

On 2003-01-09 21:31, pele wrote:
I am the fortunate owner of a mint pair of great "tiki" boxed album sets. Allow me to explain...

I think Tiki Central is a great forum for Exotica CD exchange,( for whatever: goods, money, or nothing at all)

But: What does "Tiki boxed" mean?
And yes, a playlist and some band names would help.

[edited by hanford to fix the quote]

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-01-13 14:14 ]

S

Yeah, I would need more detail.

We have 2 boxed sets of Hawaiian music. They are Reader's Digest. I recorded and burned some of them just to listen and decide if any of it was of any use. What I decided was that it was background music. Put it on replay in Shangri-La and leave it at a low volume and it sets the mood.

That's what comes to mind for me with boxed sets.

If what you have is good stuff, I am all for trading vinyl recorded to CD for vinyl recorded to CD. I am slowly turning all my records into CDs. I just can't get the record player to work in the car where I seem to listen to all my music lately...

K

By "tiki" boxed set, I mean only that it is appropriate music for a tiki bar. These are boxed set albums. 5 records in one set and 4 in the other.

Playlist:

Album set "South sea island magic"

Record one side one

Medley: Aloha Oe; South sea Island magic
Hawaii is waiting for you
Beyond the reef
Blue Hawaii
Pearly Shells
Lovely Hula hands

Record one side two

To you, sweetheart, aloha
I'll rememebr you
Pagan love song
Drifting and dreaming
I wish they didn't mean goodbye
Medley: Aloha Oe; song of thwe islands

Record two side one

Hawiian Wedding song
Down among the sheltering palms
On the beach at Waikiki
Sweet Leilani
Lahaina Luna
My little grass shack in Kealakekua, Hawaii

Record two side two

Red sails in the sunset
Ebb tide
Beyond the sea
Blue coral
Harbor lights
The shining sea

Record three side one

Quiet village
Now is the hour (Maori farewell song)
Sleepy lagoon
Maka Hilahila
Hawaiian village
Waikiki

Record three side two

Diamond head
The moon of Manakoora
Macao
Hong kong blues
Sayonara
We kiss in a shadow

Record four side one

A song of old Hawaii
The birds of Pukarua
Tiny bubbles
Hawaiian tattoo
Shells
Sweet Hawaiian chimes

Record four side two

Adventures in paradise
Heavenly islands
Japanese Farewell song
Far away places
Beyond the blue pacific
Hawaii

Album set "Hawaiian Paradise"

Side one record one

Hawaiian paradise
Forevermore
The Far Lands
Sing me a song of the islands
Sail along Silv'ry moon
Flamingo

Side two record one

Hawaii Calls
Hawaiian War chant
The Hawaiian Love call
I'll See you in Hawaii
I want to learn to speak Hawaiian
Underneath the Blue Hawaiian skies

Record two side one

Maori Brown eyes
Love Letters in the sand
Love Song of Kalua
Sea and surf
Hawaiian surf
Sand and Sea

Record two side two

Good night Aloha
Always in my heart
Our love and aloha
You are beautiful
Hello, aloha!- How are you/
King's serenade

Record three side one

Lani (Heaven in Hawaii)
Paradise Island
Bali Ha'i
Hawaiian Sunset
An Island Calls to You
My Isle of golden dreams

Record three side two

Trade winds
Tropis Trade winds
Waikiki
Here (In this enchanted place)
Indian summer
White Silver Sands

Record four side one

Hawaii
Hawaiian christmas song
Hukilau Song
There's no place like Hawaii
My Hawaiian souvenirs
My Hawaiian song of love

Record four side two

Farewell (Just for awhile)
I will remember you
Across the sea
For you a lei
Silver moon
I'll weave a lei of stars for you

Record five side one

Hawaiian Dreams
Sweet someone
Ka-lu-a
One paddle, two paddle
Let me hear you whisper
Honolulu eyes

Record five side two

Hawaiian memories
Magic is the moonlight
You'll never go home
On treasure island
I've found a little grass skirt
Beyond the rainbow

Whew! There ya go. That's the whole playlist. It's really fun (and sometimes funny) stuff. These were made without a doubt to be spun at suburban backyard luaus. These and some Arthur Lyman and Martin Denny are all you would ever want in tiki bar music (although I'm partial to throwing in some surf guitar).

Anyway, thanks for responding. If there are any other questions I can answer I'm all ears.

pele

E

Aloha Pele, I'm in, I'm in! I have a lot of experience transferring LP to CD myself. I am right now in the process of acquiring some duplicate mug-type stuff. If I succeed I'll get back to you ASAP in this thread or in person if you prefer. My email address is [email protected].

thanx, RSVP by email if you wish,
emspace.

E

Grr! That supid period getting included in URLs is driving me nusts. Please delete it if sending me email...

thanx,
emspace.

S

That is the Reader's Digest box set. It's 6 records and they are meant to be put on, played through and then flipped, so you get funky orders at first glance. Your sides and records are not actually theirs. It's more like Record 1 Side 1, Record 2 Side 2, Record 3 Side 3... Then Record 1 Side 7, Record 2 Side 8... I can't image it, but I am sure there have been parties where they put all 6 LPs on the player and let them play through, then flipped and kept going.

I already have recorded the first 6 sides I think. I have recorded a lot of it anyway. Rather watered down stuff, but a few pretty good tracks.

Like I said, it's perfect for when you want Hawaiian music playing, but you are not going to be actually listening to it. Just there for ambience.


The Swank Pad Broadcast - If it's Swank...

[ Edited by: Swanky on 2003-01-10 13:37 ]

I'm hip to Swanky's take on this set. I have the Reader's Digest set and a similar set by Longines (spelling?)Symphonette. I've had them out of their boxes once, but I think they would be good to listen to if you didn't have lots of other choices.

K

The order of the sides and records is a "record 4 side seven" type affair, I just changed it to what was actually on each side of the records to make more sense in the playlist.

They are in fact Reader's Digest sets, and the South Sea Island Magic is by far the better of the two. As far as being background music...well, yes....I mean, isn't that what you want? Atmospheric stuff that drifts along and sets the mood? Like I said, I like to play some surf guitar as well, but it isn't like Martin Denny is for sitting down and listening to on headphones.

This stuff is just good ambient music for the tiki bar and lots of it. That and the fact that it is from the pinacle of the backyard luau era is enough for me. I prefer my get togethers at the bar have an authentic soundtrack in the background. Conversation reigns supreme as far as attentive listening is concerned.

I'll keep checking in here, emspace. Let me know, eh?

Pele

E

...or we could trade CDs if you wish? Perhaps you could mail me and ask what sorta stuff you'd require for this set of disks?

thanx,
emspace.

G
GECKO posted on Fri, Jan 10, 2003 3:03 PM

Pele, hook me up. I'll see what I have fo trade. I love da sound of viynl so, no worries cleaning dem ya!

T

Hey Pele,I have QUITE a few Rare Exotica/Lounge cd's I'll trade with you for that Boxed set.You name the cd and I probably have it.I'll send copy of my playlist if you want.I even have the rare "White Goddess" by Frank Hunter& his orchestra.Let me know by ICQ# 57182049

Pele. I'd be interested in trading for a set but would be need to find out what you like other than Tiki-related as I am fairly new to the collecting of both Exotica Music and Tiki Items in general. Other types of music, of course, I have squirting out of my orifices. If there seems to be enough interest in this to justify your spending time on it please let me know.

Pele, if your still trading, I have decals and a few mugs I would part with.

Chongolio



Kumai! Kumai! Ka nalu nou mai Kahiki mai, Alo poi pu! Ku mai ka pohuehue, Hue! Kaiko Loa.

[ Edited by: chongolio on 2003-01-14 13:55 ]

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmm... That's where it get's kinda sticky. I can't claim to be the most law abiding citizen these Great United States have ever been home to, but I don't believe in trading too much stuff that's actually in print and available. Of course, I'm willing to turn people on to different things, but to just opt for Gathering More Stuff Without Paying For It that you already know you like gets a bit questionable.
At the same time... There's a lot of Great Surf Guitar out there that I'm sure I've never heard. Hearing some of it might (and probably will) inspire me to go out an purchase CDs by several bands.
Damn My Confounded Ethical Sensibilities!!!

K

Well, there seems to be enough interest, I'm going to go ahead and make the necessary arrangements. I'll need a bit of time to get this together, so keep your eyes peeled for a new thread from me when it is ready to go. I have a sound engineer pal who is willing to do the whole sheebang for me in exchange for lunch, but I gotta work with his schedule. It's okay by me since I'd rather not rush it, and he'll do a betetr job than I would anyway.

As for what to trade....

Hmmmmmm..... I dig surf rock, and am always into burned CD's if the quality is good. Obviously, mugs or tiki/Hawaiiana paraphenalia is the best trade from my perspective since I have little dough and tons of music (huge record collection....vinyl and otherwise).

We'll hash that out when I've got the CD's in hand. Just watch for a new tiki tunes thread.

Thanks for the interest!

pele

Traitor V,
You bring up good points and issues that I have spent much time pondering. I dont want to get into a big controversial debate about music swapping and piracy because I don't think there are any cut and dried answers. Yeah, the record companies are taking a beat down by music trading, but I don't think they are losing sales because of homemade comps. I also think that the comps would generate more interest in the music. Just about everybody at one time or another has engaged in some kind of copyright infringement, and in this day and age it is becoming easier to do. I am not saying that this makes it o.k. to use someone's property, only that there are situations that really dont fall under criminal activity. All the songs on my comp came from CD's that I bought . I have also spent my time and money creating a comp that if anything is giving more exposure to the bands on it. Personally, I dont see the crime in that. If I was selling them or using them in a way that was going to add to my personal riches then yeah that would be a different situation. At best I may get a couple of homemade CD's and some exposure for my art. I think the record companies have turned this whole issue into a witch hunt where anybody who swaps music is a criminal no matter the situation.

Chongolio

Ain't that the truth? I couldn't agree more, actually, especially concerning the persuasive sales ability of a well mixed comp. Heck! Look at the damage the Record Companies have done to Internet Radio lately.
Of course... We could go on and on and on, I'm sure.

S

When you are talking about trading a record recorded to CD for the same, that's one thing. A CD copied to CD is another. What I have for trade is the former. A record that was sold 30-50 years ago, resold at least once, out of print 30-50 years ago. Not available easily much of anywhere, shared with people who have similar recordings for offer.

In these terms, swapping is the way to go. There is not a new recording to be had that the record company is goign to get any revenue from. So it's not possible that they are losing any money.

And if they want to say that perhaps this is eating into sales of a re-release, I would say it is creating a market for that re-release that may not have even existed or was smaller.

Saying that... I have recorded the beginning tracks of "South Sea Island Magic" and burned a CD of it. I think there is enough on my hard drive to maybe do 1/2 of a second 80 minute CD, maybe much more. Pele, you might want to avoid that huge expenditure of time and let me send you these CDs. The sound may change between your system and mine and be annoying though. Who knows.

well, being new in the world of tiki, and having nothing to trade for tiki music, can anyone point me in the right direction of the best surf/tiki music to buy?

Pele,

Would you be willing to trade the CD for some copies of Chongholio’s Stickers? I made them by downloading the image off the web, then printing them out. They look just like Chongholio’s:

Just kidding.

I think copyright infringement is wrong, for either in-print or out-of-print work, whether it’s a book, music, artwork, or whatever. It is the copyright-holder’s decision as to what to do with it.

To me it’s not about whether or not potential money is being lost, or whether or not it is hurting or helping the chances of a re-release. It is about respect for the artist, the copyright holder, and understanding that, regardless of what my desire for the music is, it’s not mine to distribute it. It’s about that fact that it’s not “right” to take someone else’s work and do what I want with it.

I think the only cut-and-dried line is to not re-distribute music that you don’t own the legal rights to. Once someone has stepped over that line, the only difference between copying in-print music vs. out-of-print music, or copying-for-trade vs. copying-for-cash is rationalization.

~Hanford

S

Yes, Hanford, you are right of course.

I have some very lengthy and thought out rationalizations I won't bore people with.

Let's just say there is the world where a few people own a few original records that get worse and worse in quality and more and more difficult to hear, or a world where fans share the music they love to make it more available.

There has been a slippery slope of copying and ownership rights since the first recording was sent over a radio wave. That slope has always been bridged by the value of promotion equaling the cost of royalties.

Then came tapes and CDs. It moved things on further, past that early ideal as people verbatim copied copyright material. The Internet has made that an even bigger problem.

But as for the rights of the owners, there is a simple point to what they want done with their music: they want it to be heard. Else why record it on records and sell them?

K

"Let's just say there is the world where a few people own a few original records that get worse and worse in quality and more and more difficult to hear, or a world where fans share the music they love to make it more available."

Exactly. I'd hate to see all this great old stuff just disappear. At least we are appreciating it. Rationalization? Sure. But then I'm more than happy to rationalize the distribution of lost art at the expense of business any day. They wouldn't give a hoot unless they thought it was costing them a penny. They'd sooner watch it die than be enjoyed by an esoteric bunch of board lurkers, and rationalizing against that suits me just fine.

"Pele, you might want to avoid that huge expenditure of time and let me send you these CDs."

Eh, it's really no big deal. Like I said, I want to try and see how they come out anyway in case I want to burn all my albums (a major undertaking BTW). So once they are WAVs it wouldn't be a chore at all.

And now that my friend wants to do all the record to WAV work for me...how could I refuse?

You should put up some of the tracks you get on the board here as MP3s for us all to enjoy while we browse.

pele

Hanford, Nice try on the decals but mine are made from hi-quality, 2-mil vinyl guaranteed to last for years without cracking, peeling or fading. Yours are obviously HACK! Seriously though, you do make an excellent point. However, who here can honestly say they have never burned a music CD from a disk they did not buy, taped a record and then gave it to a friend, made a copy from a book or magazine at Kinkos and used it in a presentation, recorded a movie from TV onto VHS and then let the babysitter watch it, drew a picture of Mickey Mouse and had it printed in your school annual. etc, etc. Cut and dried that makes most of us guilty of copyright infringement and I bet most of us don't feel like we did anything immoral, illegal or wrong. Let face it we are breaking laws that are obviously not up to date with the modern world. Nowadays, if you want complete control over your "property" then you should never let it out of your head. I am not saying that this is fair, only that there needs to be the acceptance that when you make something public you are going to lose some control of it .There will always be a method or a person that can take what is yours and copy it. Maybe what needs to change is the perception of ownership. If you put it out there, you no longer own it completely and if it is any good you should expect your work to be duplicated by somebody and they are not going to ask your permission.
I'm Pau, back to tikis.

Chongolio


Kumai! Kumai! Ka nalu nou mai Kahiki mai, Alo poi pu! Ku mai ka pohuehue, Hue! Kaiko Loa.

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-01-13 19:28 ]

On 2003-01-13 19:03, Chongolio wrote:
(who) here can honestly say they have never burned a music CD from a disk they did not buy, taped a record and then gave it to a friend, made a copy from a book or magazine at Kinkos and used it in a presentation, recorded a movie from TV onto VHS and then let the babysitter watch it, drew a picture of Mickey Mouse and had it printed in your school annual.

I know copying is going to happen. It always will. There is always risk involved in letting your idea outside of your head. I think a major aspect that bugs me about the new wave of music swapping is the perception that nothing's wrong with it. People actually picketted (with a picket line and signs and everything) Metallica when they sued Napster.

I remember in the (good?) old days, people bootlegged computer software, but no one I knew ever rationalized it by saying "all software should be free!!!" ... they all knew what they were doing was wrong.

Today, people (kids mostly) act like there's nothing wrong with copying music. The respect of the copyright holders is missing.

Then we get arguments on Tiki Central where Person A is mad at person B becuase Person A will only bootleg for trade, while Person B wants cold-hard cash for his bootlegs. And Person A feels so much more justified in their bootlegging. It's silly!

. Let face it we are breaking laws that are obviously not up to date with the modern world.

Kind of. The only thing that has changed is that it is easier now than it used to be. Much easier. Just becuase it is easy, does it mean it should be legal? Just becuase it is hard to stop, does it mean we change the definition of intellectual property? I hope not.

~Hanford

PS, Chongholio, you're correct in your assessment of my stickers being HACK. I don't even own a printer, that image of the sticker I posted is just a photoshop mockup.

S

I agree with you there Hanford. It's not all okay. Nor should rights be stepped on.

In the old days of "pirate" software, the laws were vague. We used to copy at meetings in the court house! You had to copy software onto your computer to use it. Right?

The other side of this is that none of us, no matter how sure we are that what we are doing is fair use and even legitimate promotion, are ever going to dare step into a court room over it. The laws are on the industry side and fairness ends where their million dollar lawyers step up. I wish fairness mattered.

I am not for selling, trading or sharing Don Tiki CDs. All I am advocating is the records that are not available on CD.

I agree, people are MUCH too blase about this sort of thing nowadays. Obviously not around here, though. :)

For what it's worth, I completely agree about obscure, out of print LPs. (And for that matter, CDs often go out of print too--I don't think that should mean no one can enjoy the music that's on them until some company decides to issue them again.)

I do believe such LP appreciation could possibly even bring about reissues and ultimately benefit the artist and/or their heirs someday; in any case, if it's not in print and it's good, I will try to revive interest in it by sharing it.

Also...it's a question of economics. This is where the question really gets difficult for me. Music, art in general, is food for the spirit. If I have a friend who's broke, I mean STONE broke, do I tell them, no you can't tape that album or CD of mine even though you love it so much and it makes you happy? Do I tell them, nope, you gotta eat Top Ramen this week and buy it yerself? I can't do that, personally. I let 'em tape it.

There are those who've done similar kindnesses for me in times of need, I must say. But...when I've got the dough, I goes out and buys the loot for myself!!

Oof.

As I said before, I dont want to in the middle of a big debate. I go to great pains to stay out of topics like this. Maybe because it keeps my rationalizations safe and cozy. More likely I don't have the time, knowledge or typing skills needed to participate in these lively topics. But, since I have been laid up for the past week because of a bum leg and have a little too much time on my hands I thought I would jump into this one. I appreciate everyones opinion on this matter. Everybody has excellent points. It is a topic I have thought about a lot since the whole Napster/ mp3 thing hit the fan. Hanford, You have outstanding character and self restraint. Out of respect for your opinions and your ownership of this forum, I have rescinded my CD swapping offer. I don't have permission to use the songs for my purposes and I will admit that. Also, I dont want to have to explain to some big hairy surf drummer that I was passing his music out without his consent because I really dig his backbeats. Legally and ethically you are right. The downside is being right never won any battles. Also, a killer comp that looked and sounded bitchin' will probally never stoke the ears of TC club
members. Now, I want to believe that most artists would like to have thier art experienced by anybody who would apprieciate it so long as they were fairly paid of course. I know this is not true. Some acts are doing it only for the big bucks. Personally, I thought Metallica came off looking like greedy little cry babies. They have a right too get paid but I think that once a point of compensation has been reached or a period of time has passed a copyright holder should let it go, it is public domain and the world owns it. There is no way of having complete control so why not change the laws and rewrite the rules so that everyday folks aren't breaking the law or stepping on someones rights, and the people who created the stuff get paid what is fair. I know that it is more complicated than that but somebody is going to have to figure it out. Otherwise we are all going to remain no good, copyright infringin' criminals. The playing field has changed and the rules, defintion and laws need to change with it. There are too many ways to cheat and history shows us the honesty system does not work. The public in general (especially kids) cannot handle the responsibility. People cannot be given the tools that make all of this sharing faster and easier to do and then be told not to use them for that purpose. They are going to do what is convienient, afforadable and what their concience will allow, not what outdated laws say they should. The recording industry is in for a rough ride and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Chongolio

P.S. Hanford, the name is Chongolio, the second "h" is invisible and silent. Also, I could tell you photoshopped my decal. The glare you put on gave it away You cant trick a trickster.



Kumai! Kumai! Ka nalu nou mai Kahiki mai, Alo poi pu! Ku mai ka pohuehue, Hue! Kaiko Loa.

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-01-14 16:07 ]

K

Then we get arguments on Tiki Central where Person A is mad at person B becuase Person A will only bootleg for trade, while Person B wants cold-hard cash for his bootlegs. And Person A feels so much more justified in their bootlegging. It's silly!

Uhm....hmmmm...

Exactly what planet did these arguments take place on? Is there some sort of alternate universe Tiki Central board I am unaware of?

I (as "person A" I suppose) do not feel any more or less justified in my sharing of dead LP's be it for trade or cash.

I would assume that if Swanky ("person B"?) is peeved at me because he asks for cash for his CD he would make mention of it to me here on the thread.

But it would appear that Swanky and I are in agreement for the most part with regard to this whole subject of redistributing "bootlegged" music and therefore I can only ascertain that this entire "silly" person A, person B scenario only happened in your head.

Does that sound about right there Hanford? Eh?

Now, since none of us here are going to personally affect the copyright laws even one iota by chatting about it on a message board or inventing arguments between people with letters for names, perhaps we could just get back to tiki talk. Let's remember that trading this stuff is all in good fun and we are all here for the love of all things Tiki. If there is some other nefarious purpose behind it all that I am as yet unaware of please feel free to forward me that memo.

M'kay?

pele (BTW Swanky, I'll be ordering up one o' them thar CD's from yer site soon.)

K

Sigh. Remember the "good old days" when we made cassette copies of our friends' records, or made cassette compilations of special mixes for our friends.

Well, you were breaking the law, punk! ;-(

Anyway, I'm sure most of us have an old box of said tapes laying around somewhere. Seriously, I think for every tape I made, I bought many more actual records. I still like to share MP3s of newer/older bands with friends...And, we usually end up buying the CDs of the bands we like.

Maybe the reason record companies are in such a slump right now, is that most current music really sucks!

Exactly what planet did these arguments take place on? Is there some sort of alternate universe Tiki Central board I am unaware of?

I was refering to posts made 6 months ago, so yeah, it's a Tiki Central you're not aware of.

It occured in several other threads a while back. You weren't involved in them, I don't think. There was a lot of drama involved in it though. At the time there was as many people laughing about it as was crying about it. I think most are laughing about it now. It was interesting, I thought.

therefore I can only ascertain that this entire "silly" person A, person B scenario only happened in your head.

Does that sound about right there Hanford? Eh?

Man, the tone of your post has me a bit bothered. You do realize there's 19,000 posts on the board, and that this thread isn't the first mention of Mp3 on it, correct? I never said person A was you. I never said person B was Swanky. I never directed anything towards this topic specifically as much as copyright infringement in general. I didn't lock the topic, I didn't ask anyone to not trade, and I didn't ask people to take the conversation off of Tiki Central. I didn't call anyone names, and I think the harshest word I used was "silly". Your attitude is largely unwarranted, I believe.

My opinions on Mp3 trading are underrepresented here and I enjoy discussing it whenever it comes up. Swanky and I have had interesting debates about it before. But it is never with distaste or disrespect towards anyone here.

Respectfully,

~Hanford

Hi Chongolio,

Firstly, sorry about boffing your name up. I really hate it when other people do that. I'm really mad for doing it myself, too. Sorry.

I think there are other solutions than to just change the law. The "Industry" has a lot of power. The "Industry" decided everyone was going to own CDs instead of albums. The "Industry" decided we were going to be watching DVDs.

I would not be suprised if in 5 years from now the "Industry" decides that you won't be able to buy a "normal" CD anymore because they're too easy to pirate. You can only buy encrypted ones that take new players to listen to. The "Industry" has a perfectly legitimate reason to make the switch, too: CDs are too easy to copy.

Will it stop piracy? No, of course not. It will probably do a good job of pushing it out to the fringes, though, which is all they hope to do right now.

~Hanford

K

Today, people (kids mostly) act like there's nothing wrong with copying music. The respect of the copyright holders is missing.

Then we get arguments on Tiki Central where Person A is mad at person B becuase Person A will only bootleg for trade, while Person B wants cold-hard cash for his bootlegs. And Person A feels so much more justified in their bootlegging. It's silly!

I think one could easily understand why I would take offense to that statement given the direction this thread has taken. I mean really, all I wanted to do was trade copies of some cool old albums for anything tiki someone might be willing to part with, and look what it turned into.

I apologize for getting so riled there but you couldn't really expect me to search the archives to prepare for this copyright infringement topic. I really didn't imagine I was the first to ever offer up burned copies of out of print records here. I assumed it was probably quite common, which is the very reason why I chose to put up a post. As I said before, my intention was to share the music with like minded others and maybe get some duplicate mugs for the effort and expense. That is really it in a nutshell.

So, I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding. I'm really a very low key person, but if you go back and read your comments I'm sure you could see where they could easily be taken as an attack on me.

Once again the internet form of discussion falls victim to lack of tone and the inability to engage in anything other than a "tit for tat" type of conversation.

-sigh-

pele

Yup, thats why I usually keep out these heavy topic discussions. There is too much room for error and misunderstanding. Let's all give a hug, get a drink and shut the hell up.

Chumholio

P.S If Hanford's predictions are right, We better burn em if we got em, hee-hee!



Kumai! Kumai! Ka nalu nou mai Kahiki mai, Alo poi pu! Ku mai ka pohuehue, Hue! Kaiko Loa.

[ Edited by: chongolio on 2003-01-14 18:41 ]

Hey Kingslod,
I remember those homemade tape comp days. That is also what made Napster pretty nifty. I found a lot of old stuff I would never go out and buy again but enjoyed listening to. Most of my punk tapes and vinyl did not survive my vagabond era. I held onto a lot of old flyers though.

Chongolio

Well, I'm not quite sure what others think happened in this thread. I mean, no one got "busted", there hasn't really been any name calling (although some misunderstanding created a little bit of tension, perhaps), the thread has not been shut down. I never asked Chongolio to stop trading, or you. I tried very hard to leave my concepts and examples abstract, and just to have a debate about the subject in general, because that’s what it is to me. I didn’t think I was going to change anyone’s mind or force anyone to go “underground” LOL.

I don’t know if people feel they can’t discuss mp3 Trading on Tiki Central. I don’t know if that’s the feeling you got, Pele. You can. We all can. Like I said, it’s been discussed many times before, and it will come up again. There will be varying opinions on it.
But if anyone here wants to have a discussion regarding a controversial topic without any dissention or varying opinions, that’s simply not going to happen (be it MP3 trading or putting “Shag” in your ebay listings :wink: ). People are vocal here — it’s what the board is all about. I’m not saying anyone was expecting that, but I just want it to be clear.

~Hanford

I've been following this thread, and maybe I missed it, but does anyone like reggae? I mean if you look at some Ku style tikis they look like they're wearing dreadlocks. Unfortunately there's not a lot of variety within reggae. Bob Marley, Peter Tosh......OH, check out Putumayo World Music at http://www.putumayo.com. Classic and contemporary reggae. I spin off in la la land when I hear "Midnight in Ethiopia" by rico. It's one of the hottest instrumentals I've ever heard.

I have yet to hear Denny Martin or Arthur Lyman and some of the others mentioned here, but definitely will be looking for those. Bought Preston Epps-Bongo Rock CD out of Tiki News. I do believe some of the sounds on it were "borrowed" by the Safaris and other surf musicians back in the days. I actually found a Dick Dale and the Delltones CD up here in a Wherehouse store not long ago. Love the "wet" sound. Thanks ya'll for turnin' me on to Tiki Tunes.


[ Edited by: jungletrader on 2003-01-14 21:26 ]

One more thing. You can listen to samples of the music on http://www.putumayo.com For "Midnight in Ethiopia" click on "Order On-line", then click "Caribbean", then click "Jamaica". You'll find your choices on the right side.


[ Edited by: jungletrader on 2003-01-14 21:52 ]

Wow! I hate to say it again but... I'm really impressed by the vast majority of the folks in this crowd. I'm new in here and, so, to discover this thread and follow it this far has been a good experience. Everyone has made good points, most have remained civil throughout, and all opinions seem to have been seriously considered and thoughtfully addressed.
I take my Fez off to Hanford for running such a good show (or letting such a good show run, as the case may be).
Reggae is an interesting subject, JungleTrader. I'm sure most of the people on this forum appreciate it for what it is and such, but reggae is a Carribean Art Form. Tiki is more anchored in Polynesia (as a visual reference) and Alchohol (as a reference distorter). The music that most Tikifiles choose to provide a soundtrack to their lives is Exotica. Even the "Hawaiian Music" that Pele was, until recently, offering for trade might fit more for a Kid's Backyard Birthday Luaua than a serious Tiki Cocktail Party.
Exotica music has little or nothing to do with Hawaiian Folk Music. It's basically a form of American Jazz/Swing/Big Band with a bit more percussion in some places and a tendency toward more "exotic" melodies overall. The Music is American. The Drinks were developed in bars from Singapore to Paris (moving Eastward, at that!). The Tiki, however, is Polynesian. That being said, Tiki Music can easily include some Reggae, some Punk, some Surf,... Country, perhaps? Hmmmmmmmmm... (Junior Brown does a really nice "Lovely Hula Hands") But it's Base is in Exotica Lounge.
Oops! I just spouted, didn't I?

[ Edited by: Traitor Vic on 2003-01-14 22:57 ]

hello Tikicentral! I am new here (writing from Australia)- in fact, this is my first post. What a cool forum.

I have been sort of following this thread and thought I'd draw your attention to an excellent website - which I've only recently discovered - where you can trade for all sorts of music including tiki-tunes. The site doesn't exactly promote copying & trading mixes, but there's nothing to stop anyone from doing so...

Some "tiki-inspired" mixes that may be of interest, (which I have listened to and recommend): Honolulu how R U?..., Voodoo!!, and my own Limbo Lounge

I apologize in advance if you are already aware of this site. Just happy to share the music...

P.S. Is anyone here from Australia?

I've got that same box set, found it at the DAV for a buck, never been played before!
I collect Hawaiian vinyl, I've got around twenty or so records, all from thrift stores. I've been tempted to pay vinyl freak prices at record stores and e-bay, but I like the thrill of the hunt at thrift stores(cheaper too).
That box set has some decent tunes, all the standards are there, but some of the songs are fairly whitewashed. I guess they wanted to ease mom and pop america into it. Reader's Digest IS the same outfit that edits sex scenes out of books you know.

Welcome to TC Hula Hattie and Captain Ambience.

I am still participating in this thread and still willing to trade a couple Mugs and decals to Pele for copies of her records. I read somewhere else on the board that Pirates are kinda tiki. Arrgh!

I like reggae, it gives off a nice island vibe. Mostly roots and dub is in my collection. Lee Perry is a genius. Its not Tiki but gives good tropical ambiance. Although, Jamaica, rum, Mai -tais, tiki. Maybe it is tiki? My wahine has turned me onto a lot old Ska. Desmond Decker, the Specials, The Selector, Barrington Levy. The Skatalites, the grandaddies of Reggae, fit perfectly into most tiki hut soundsystems. Mostly, Instro tunes with an amazing Saxophonist who goes by the name of Roland Alphonso. Strictly Roots. I dig the look of the era as well. The Rudies were looking sharp.
Ska, ska, ska! doot doot doot doot doot. Jamaican ska!

i

Chongolio



Kumai! Kumai! Ka nalu nou mai Kahiki mai, Alo poi pu! Ku mai ka pohuehue, Hue! Kaiko Loa.

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-01-15 11:53 ]

S

I have no idea how many Hawaiian/Tahitian/Exotica records we have. We got most at thrift or antique stores for $2 or less each. We don't pass them up for $1 or so, and usually find them in bunchs.

But once you get them home and find the one or two that are really great, then you can go looking for that good copy of it that has no mildew and pay a bit more for a record you know is good.

Honestly, out of the 100+ records we have, I would narrow it down to maybe 10-15 that are really good. I mean good enough to go pay $15-20 for a mint version. The "Hawaiian Holiday" records are mostly good. That removed, leaves just a hand full. The stack of very dull, boring material is very tall. But the covers are sometimes worthy of keeping around.

Which reminds me. One day I need to start making notes on the collection so I don't have to go back and listen to them again to figure out what the gems are...

At one time I started ranking my Hawaiian discs on a self-determined scale of from one to five pineapples. I gave up when I realized there are hundreds of Hawaiian lps out there. Now I just listen to them in bunches. Some of the ones I like are Luke Leilani, the Polynesians, the Hilo Hawaiians, all of the Webley Edwards stuff (Hawaii Calls) and the 49th state lps are good -- but harder to find.
There are lots of what I would call easy listening Hawaiian lps too. I think it was de rigueur for every orchestra and artist to issue at least one in the 60's and 70's, which I mostly have because they cost 50 cents apiece, so why not buy em.

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-01-15 15:06 ]

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-01-15 15:07 ]

T

Two of my favorites off the top of my head are Billy Mure's Hawaiian Percussion (or something along those lines) and Les Paul and Mary Ford's Luau record.

On 2003-01-15 15:35, thejab wrote:
Two of my favorites off the top of my head are Billy Mure's Hawaiian Percussion (or something along those lines) and Les Paul and Mary Ford's Luau record.

i've got a billy mure (muire?) hawaiian album that's one of my faves! but alas it's it storage back in the states.
:(

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