Tiki as Religion

Beyond the history, is Tiki practiced by anyone as a religion today?

I can see with personal connections that some experience with a one-ness of the universe that Tiki might provide a stepping off place, so to speak.

Tiki as gods... well I wouldn't think, but maybe be some see them that way still?

Without getting into a religious discussion, as it is not allowed on TC, if religion is a way to live your life by, Aloha can be seen that way too, if we embrace the spirit of Aloha as a lot here do, then.....

Well... I don't mean to discuss religious beliefs per se, but in the world of Tiki, I'm wondering how religion fits in currently. Tiki is history. Tiki is art. Tiki is collecting, drinks, bars, decor, music, etc. Is Tiki also religion?

If you are looking for a religious connection the closest thing I can think of is Huna.

I think about tikis alot more than I think about God,
Tiki's I can see, God is just made up.

stirring the pot,
Jeff(bigtikidude)

city of refuge

DAMN that has the potential for a FORUM OF FIRE!! you go you AGNOSTIC you!!

On 2008-04-01 10:28, bigtikidude wrote:
I think about tikis alot more than I think about God,
Tiki's I can see, God is just made up.

stirring the pot,
Jeff(bigtikidude)

AHHH but grasshopper, can you not feel the wind upon your naked bosom?

On a historic level, Tiki was just one of many gods of the Polynesian pantheon. So your question really means if the traditional Polynesian religions are still practiced. I believe yes, in some form, by individuals and small groups, in the islands and on the mainland. But I doubt that there is any particular emphasis on only the god Tiki per se.

For me personally, Tiki has two religious connotations that I like:

A.) Tiki is the god of the artists. That alone is wonderful. Art is my religion. It inspires me, it makes me seek it, I want to serve it. And I believe that all the artists here are "practicing" Tiki's religion, too, by being creative. Tiki's ever changing image is proof of the creative possibilities of man.

B.) The fact that Tiki was a Demi-god, half man, half divine. To me, he was sort of like the Silver Surfer, more than man, less than god, just a really cool, wise guy. Just like Jesus or Buddha. Maybe with more quirks. Exemplifying the possibility of the divine in every human being.

...like the Silver Surfer....that is an AWESOME thought..Jack Kirby is chuckling WHEREVER our energies go off to...

Surely if football qualifies as an "implicit religion", as some serious theologians are suggesting, so does the modern Tiki subculture, cocktails and all?

Humu Humu posted this one a while back. You need to read it if you are thinking of adopting tiki as your religion.

Jack Chick style tract warning of the dangers of Tiki

A brief history of Tiki Gods:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10296&forum=1

On 2008-04-01 06:51, Sophista-tiki wrote:
If you are looking for a religious connection the closest thing I can think of is Huna.

Good Post.
Never heard of Huna before:

ANCIENT WISDOM, MODERN APPLICATION

Huna is the healing and spiritual shamanism of ancient Hawai'i. In these pages you will find teachings that were once secret and carefully guarded.

Today they are taught openly. Huna is neither Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) nor is it Hypnosis.

If you're interested in spiritual growth and personal empowerment, or expansion of your awareness and your connection to universal spirit, then you'll find that getting in touch with the consciousness on these pages will awaken something inside you.

http://www.huna.com

On 2008-04-01 10:28, bigtikidude wrote:
I think about tikis alot more than I think about God,
Tiki's I can see, God is just made up.

stirring the pot,
Jeff(bigtikidude)

Gee. Way to dismiss the beliefs of over a billion people world-wide.

Maybe you can see why this topic is forbidden on TC, but it's always
difficult to keep someone from saying something fucking stupid congrats!

[ Edited by: tiki-riviera 2008-04-06 09:22 ]

On 2008-04-06 09:21, tiki-riviera wrote:
Maybe you can see why this topic is forbidden on TC, but it's always
difficult to keep someone from saying something fucking stupid congrats!

Now now, I think its forbidden because too many people have no sense of humor and tolerance about religion, as we can see here... which is a shame. I think the ancient Polynesians had a healthy dose of that, as you can see in this, one of the many mythological tales about the prankster aspect of Tiki:

"Handy relates another version of Tiki as a trickster who could become ugly or handsome at will, keeping his ugliness up his rectum and pulling it out whenever he wanted to." :lol:

If god, like Tiki, would not have a good sense of humor, he would have ended this world long ago :) . And one of the main reasons this world is in the trouble it is in is the lack of lightness and humor in regards to people's religions. The concept that fun and humor CAN co-exist with respect and awe in religion has been lost for a long, long time. Maybe Tiki can bring some of that back, even if only by a small amount.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-04-06 12:49 ]

in the end.. this world will be ruled and controlled by the easily offended..

we will all live by their easily offended rules, we will not be allowed to have a differing opinion, and our walls will all be white..

how dare you voice a belief that is different than mine.. HOW DARE YOU !!!!

the audacity.

In an interesting case on Oahu a few years ago, when students erected a large tiki on school property, and small gifts were left before it, the school told them to take it down, as it was a religious symbol. The courts then rule that, no, tikis are a cultural symbol and the tiki remained. I've seriously never quite understood the logic of this decision (Does this mean we can erect Our Virgin of Guadeloupe statues around school as "cultural symbols"?), but there you have it. Officially, according to the courts of the land, tiki is CULTURE, not RELIGION.

What is the difference between a CULT and a RELIGION? The number of its followers.

On 2008-04-06 16:24, bigbrotiki wrote:
What is the difference between a CULT and a RELIGION? The number of its followers.

I thought it was the number of dilapidated school buses they own.

On 2008-04-06 15:57, Kaiwaza wrote:
In an interesting case on Oahu a few years ago, when students erected a large tiki on school property, and small gifts were left before it, the school told them to take it down, as it was a religious symbol. The courts then rule that, no, tikis are a cultural symbol and the tiki remained. I've seriously never quite understood the logic of this decision (Does this mean we can erect Our Virgin of Guadeloupe statues around school as "cultural symbols"?), but there you have it. Officially, according to the courts of the land, tiki is CULTURE, not RELIGION.

I like the distinction between the unique historical culture of native Hawaiians as opposed to international religious beliefs,such as Catholism which would include images of "Virgin" Guadalupe.

Do you know the name of the case?

On 2008-04-01 03:24, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
Beyond the history, is Tiki practiced by anyone as a religion today?

I can see with personal connections that some experience with a one-ness of the universe that Tiki might provide a stepping off place, so to speak.

Tiki as gods... well I wouldn't think, but maybe be some see them that way still?

Browse through this thread @ Hawaiiathreads.com. You can get a glimpse of how strongly some peeps still feel about their 'gods' being used/misused/misrepresented/exploited, etc. like on tee shirts, logos and other contemporary art forms. Good thing these folks haven't run across TC yet--this is where you have to draw the line between ancient religion and Polynesian pop culture--2 completely different worlds. Poly pop being based on the imagery of ancient religions, but without the religion. That's where 'taboo' and 'mystique' comes into play---religious practices not understood or accepted by the christian majority but they're turned into an oddity/amusement type thing (poly-pop culture)--works for me! I can see 'Kimo's' point of view and I have respect for him and his beliefs but I still love a goofy looking mid-century pseudo polynesian carving, mug, etc.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4731

Not to "stir the pot," but there is a valid point here that is not so central to religious difference per se:

By definition, Gods are more- or all-powerful, and it seems quite natural that Gods might vie for prominence, and certainly would seek contact with their peers.

Being superior beings, certainly Gods would have mastery over all the usual human forms of interaction (at minimum), including humor, quite possibly at levels far beyond the ken of mere humans.

However, with the rise of monotheistic religion (specifically: one god, or mono-deism) there is only one supreme being, and s/he has no one with whom to share humor at such an elevated level.

In the traditions of Abraham: among elevated beings it is the Angels (mostly the fallen ones) that exhibit joking and humor in their interactions with humans, in attempts to dazzle and distract the simpletons from the way of the all-mighty One.

From a monotheistic viewpoint, while humor may or not be abstractly "good" or "evil," it certainly is irrelevant to the message of the way of the One.

I (for one) am most grateful for my cat Simba's well-developed sense of humor, and his willingness to share it with me...

On 2008-04-06 19:57, Howland wrote:

On 2008-04-01 03:24, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
Beyond the history, is Tiki practiced by anyone as a religion today?

I can see with personal connections that some experience with a one-ness of the universe that Tiki might provide a stepping off place, so to speak.

Tiki as gods... well I wouldn't think, but maybe be some see them that way still?

Browse through this thread @ Hawaiiathreads.com. You can get a glimpse of how strongly some peeps still feel about their 'gods' being used/misused/misrepresented/exploited, etc. like on tee shirts, logos and other contemporary art forms. Good thing these folks haven't run across TC yet--this is where you have to draw the line between ancient religion and Polynesian pop culture--2 completely different worlds. Poly pop being based on the imagery of ancient religions, but without the religion. That's where 'taboo' and 'mystique' comes into play---religious practices not understood or accepted by the christian majority but they're turned into an oddity/amusement type thing (poly-pop culture)--works for me! I can see 'Kimo's' point of view and I have respect for him and his beliefs but I still love a goofy looking mid-century pseudo polynesian carving, mug, etc.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=4731

Did anyone else notice that "Kimo55," the originator of that thread, has since been banned from that forum? I read through some of his other posts. Sounds like the TikiLaLe of HawaiiThreads.com.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that to the polynesians the tiki carvings represented minor gods and they did not worship them. The polynesians only worshiped one God who was the creator, thus it was an easy step to accept Christianity which holds the same belief.

Hoku Poku - I mean.... Hokus Pokus !

Go ahead and argue the details all you want, but -

It's ironic and very insightful that this site is dedicated to a native religion, but we're only allowed to post ethnocentric upper middle class Western views of it.

Of course Tiki is and was a religion. But any discussion of this purely from the native's religious viewpoint is literally forbidden on TC!

By limiting the discussion to entertaining aspects of a tourists-eye view of world of Tiki, we're forced to make fun of it. It's in fact a rule here. And its shameful.

On 2008-05-07 07:20, Cammo wrote:
Go ahead and argue the details all you want, but -

It's ironic and very insightful that this site is dedicated to a native religion, but we're only allowed to post ethnocentric upper middle class Western views of it.

Of course Tiki is and was a religion. But any discussion of this purely from the native's religious viewpoint is literally forbidden on TC!

By limiting the discussion to entertaining aspects of a tourists-eye view of world of Tiki, we're forced to make fun of it. It's in fact a rule here. And its shameful.

But, this is what Tiki Central is about. Not a native religion.
Tiki Central is a place to celebrate the classic Tiki Bars of the mid-century and the design aesthetic they established. This movement grew in popularity after World War II when America had a new fascination with the South Seas and Hawaii. Tiki Bars sought to bring an idealized tropical paradise into the concrete jungle of the Modern World. Very little of it was genuine -- born mostly out of the likes of Hollywood art directors and modern architects -- but it all seemed real to a then-naïve public’s eye. The Tiki style started in bars and restaurants but soon spilled over into all forms of popular culture, including music, food, dress, TV and movies, and other forms of architecture.

The Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on is a mid-century American invention that is Polynesia-inspired.

The problem is, always has been and always will be that religion is a volatile topic because some people tend to be uncompromising, intolerant, defensive, judgmental and adamant in their beliefs. I have no problem having a heady and impartial discussion about it but in this arena it will always digress. I come to Tiki Central to have fun and my approach in life is light-hearted and sometimes cynical. For instance; my standing opinion on religion as a whole is summed up in two words - "Hokus Pokus", and even that is likely to incite and offend some. (My apologies to ya!)

Religion is serious and people get twisted and bunched up about it. Self censorship in these forums on this topic is wise. Theres a time and place for everything, There are many other places and forums that one could discuss religion in general including the religious intricacies, influences and anthropological ramifications of tiki. Perhaps those that wish to delve into that topic could start a thread in that forum and post a link here. I think Bongos original question was a legitimate inquiry that did not even have the intention of "Going There" but ended up there and as demonstrated already in this thread it tends to get testy, so why take it there? it truly brings out the worst in people.

Cheers!

[ Edited by: Bohemiann 2008-05-07 07:53 ]

[ Edited by: Bohemiann 2008-05-07 07:56 ]

If you want to mix your tiki and your religion you can always attend this church:

Mainland church of the perfect wave

This is a skit from Mr. Mikes Mondo Video if you are interested.

On 2008-05-07 07:20, Cammo wrote:
Go ahead and argue the details all you want, but -

It's ironic and very insightful that this site is dedicated to a native religion, but we're only allowed to post ethnocentric upper middle class Western views of it.

Of course Tiki is and was a religion. But any discussion of this purely from the native's religious viewpoint is literally forbidden on TC!

By limiting the discussion to entertaining aspects of a tourists-eye view of world of Tiki, we're forced to make fun of it. It's in fact a rule here. And its shameful.

I would love to hear a native's viewpoint! Any natives out there? I am not, so I am not qualified to such an opinion. I am trying to keep my facts straight from a historical point of view, not religious. I do have a Samoan friend and I remember years ago him explaining to me that Tiki is a white man's creation and not part of his culture. So, that is one native's opinion.

[ Edited by: nature boy 2008-05-07 08:54 ]

While we're at it, does anyone know a devout practitioner of Haitian Vodou? I want to make sure I'm not being religiously or culturally offensive, when I mix up a 'Zombie', or display a Trader Vic's 'Voodoo Tumbler'.

[ Edited by: Limbo Lizard 2008-05-08 07:44 ]

i'm a frisbee-tarion. we belive when you die, your 'soul' goes on the roof and you can not get it down.

On 2008-05-07 07:43, Mr. NoNaMe wrote:

On 2008-05-07 07:20, Cammo wrote:
Go ahead and argue the details all you want, but -

It's ironic and very insightful that this site is dedicated to a native religion, but we're only allowed to post ethnocentric upper middle class Western views of it.

Of course Tiki is and was a religion. But any discussion of this purely from the native's religious viewpoint is literally forbidden on TC!

By limiting the discussion to entertaining aspects of a tourists-eye view of world of Tiki, we're forced to make fun of it. It's in fact a rule here. And its shameful.

But, this is what Tiki Central is about. Not a native religion.
Tiki Central is a place to celebrate the classic Tiki Bars of the mid-century and the design aesthetic they established. This movement grew in popularity after World War II when America had a new fascination with the South Seas and Hawaii. Tiki Bars sought to bring an idealized tropical paradise into the concrete jungle of the Modern World. Very little of it was genuine -- born mostly out of the likes of Hollywood art directors and modern architects -- but it all seemed real to a then-naïve public’s eye. The Tiki style started in bars and restaurants but soon spilled over into all forms of popular culture, including music, food, dress, TV and movies, and other forms of architecture.

The Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on is a mid-century American invention that is Polynesia-inspired.

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with NoNaMe on this one. The question has been answered. Nothing to see here people. Move along. Move along.
Cheers.

On 2008-05-07 08:53, nature boy wrote:

On 2008-05-07 07:20, Cammo wrote:
Go ahead and argue the details all you want, but -

It's ironic and very insightful that this site is dedicated to a native religion, but we're only allowed to post ethnocentric upper middle class Western views of it.

Of course Tiki is and was a religion. But any discussion of this purely from the native's religious viewpoint is literally forbidden on TC!

By limiting the discussion to entertaining aspects of a tourists-eye view of world of Tiki, we're forced to make fun of it. It's in fact a rule here. And its shameful.

I would love to hear a native's viewpoint! Any natives out there? I am not, so I am not qualified to such an opinion. I am trying to keep my facts straight from a historical point of view, not religious. I do have a Samoan friend and I remember years ago him explaining to me that Tiki is a white man's creation and not part of his culture. So, that is one native's opinion.

[ Edited by: nature boy 2008-05-07 08:54 ]

If anything Tiki has perpetuated the pre-contact Tiki gods by the prevelance of the "Ku" representations.

On 2008-05-07 17:32, TIKI DAVID wrote:
i'm a frisbee-tarion. we belive when you die, your 'soul' goes on the roof and you can not get it down.

I've a very close friend who is a frisbee-tarion. He told me that if you get a ladder you CAN get your soul down from the roof.