Are these from the Trader Vic's warehouse sale?

Found this posting on craigslist today and wondered since these were posted from an Alameda location point of sale if they were purchased at the TV warehouse sale.

I was wondering how long it would take before I started seeing some of this stuff pop up. Anyone that went to the sale recognize these? $1,800.00 each?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/clt/624670965.html

PTD

I googled the phone number, and it turns out that it's an antique store here in Alameda called Good Better Best. I just called them, turns out they are just down the street from Casa de Mai Tai, and the tikis are still available.

When I originally called and asked them if the tikis came from the Trader Vic's warehouse sale, someone said yes, but that info turns out to be wrong. It turns out that these two tikis came from Clars Auction House, and coincidently sold on the same weekend as the Trader Vic's warehouse sale.

Here is the Ku that sold from Clars Auction House.

Here is the Maori tiki that sold from Clars Auction House.

I'll walk down there and take a picture of them later today, and post it here, if anyone is interested.

[edited to update info after some Scooby Doo super sleuthing]

"It's Mai Tai. It's out of this world." - Victor Jules Bergeron Jr.

[ Edited by: Mai Tai 2008-04-05 12:40 ]

They look rather Balinese-made to me...that is what I can make out of them, in these completely underexposed and sideways photos!

Midnite Tiki pointed out to me that these came from Clars Auction house, and were coincidentally sold on the same weekend as the Trader Vic's warehouse sale, but these tikis have nothing to do with Trader Vic's.

[edited to update info after some Scooby Doo super sleuthing]

"It's Mai Tai. It's out of this world." - Victor Jules Bergeron Jr.

[ Edited by: Mai Tai 2008-04-05 12:44 ]

Okay, I dropped by that Good Better Best antique store in Alameda, and the tikis were there. For those who are interested in where the tikis came from, and if they were from the Trader Vic's warehouse sale, here's the info. They are not from the Trader Vic's warehouse sale. They are the two tikis that sold at Clar's Auction House the same weekend as the first TV warehouse sale. Here is some info that Midnite sent to me about the auction:

*6129 Modern, Hawaiian style palmwood 'kou' statue, South Pacific figure, 6'8''h $750

6246 Maori style statue carved from palmwood, South Pacific figure, 6'8''h $1,000

From that Clar's auction. No more pics on their website that I can find. maybe in their feedback. They were the same tikis. *

I double checked with the guys selling these, and indeed they bought them at Clar's Auction House. They didn't even hear about the Trader Vic's warehouse sale until way after it was over. One guy definitely had dollar signs in his eyes as he lamented about missing the warehouse sale.

I snapped off a few pics, and then quickly headed out as the guys there started to bad mouth Forbidden Island. Stay classy, Alameda.

Whatever Asian carver Trader Vic's gets these from these days, these look to come from the same supplier that they used for the tikis at the Destin Vic's. I suppose they fill the need for inexpensive carvings to populate the restaurants and give them a pseudo-Polynesian feel for a non-discriminating public, but they just don't work for me. Kind of like when an artist tries to sketch a familiar person and you can recognize who they were trying to draw, but it misses the mark and ends up looking like that person morphed with someone else.

Rob, those two tikis are not from Trader Vic's at all. They are the two tikis that sold at Clars Auction House the same weekend as the first Trader Vic's warehouse sale. See my last post above.

Here is the Ku that sold from Clars Auction House.

Here is the Maori tiki that sold from Clars Auction House.

Cheers.

They do however look like they are from the same importer/Balinese carving shop that all the nouveaux Vic's Tikis come from. That Maori one is clearly based on the classic Trader Vic's logo Tiki, who's origin was traced back to the S.F. DeYoung Museum in these pages not too long ago. It is unlikely that any other Asian carver would use that Tiki as a template.

So, these are NEW carvings with no restaurant provenance, vintage or otherwise?

Um, er, uh, THEY ARE NOT FROM THE TRADER VIC'S WAREHOUSE SALE!!! They were sold at Clar's Auction House. The only thing they have similar is that they coincidentally were sold on the same weekend as the Trader Vic's warehouse sale, in the East Bay Area. But again, to clarify, the are not from any Trader Vic's restaurant or warehouse, nor do they have any pedigree or history. They are indeed NEW carvings with no restaurant provenance, vintage or otherwise.

6129 Modern, Hawaiian style palmwood 'kou' statue, South Pacific figure, 6'8''h $750

6246 Maori style statue carved from palmwood, South Pacific figure, 6'8''h $1,000

And even though they might look like they are from the same importer/Balinese carving shop that all the nouveaux Vic's Tikis come from, and even though that Maori might be clearly based on the classic Trader Vic's logo Tiki, who's origin was traced back to the S.F. DeYoung Museum in these pages not too long ago, and even though it is unlikely that any other Asian carver would use that Tiki as a template, these two are simply not from Trader Vic's. :)

But, but ...they LOOK like they are from Tr.... -BOOOM!- (Sound of Mai Tai's head exploding) :D

On 2008-04-05 19:23, SilverLine wrote:
So, these are NEW carvings with no restaurant provenance, vintage or otherwise?

Silverline's question points at one of the TWO very reasons why I come down so hard on "Poly-Asian" (mostly Balinese) Tiki carvings: The FIRST and foremost one still is that they are stylistically "off" in various ways that I have pointed out multiple times here.

But SECOND, they have no history, they are not rooted in American Poly pop anywhere....Just like a good amount of the Tikis at the new Vic's locations, and at the warehouse sale (I do not consider Tikis that were freshly carved in Bali and used for late 90s/early 2000s Trader Vic's as having a "history"). All of the Tikis below belong to that category:

And that whole row here (not counting the Mexican mask and the Broccoli head in the back):

So are these two:

And the two left and right of the Marquesan, (which is an authentic vintage Trader Vic's design):

...and this lil bugger:

Now I was glad to hear from eyewitness reports that (contrary to my expectations) the warehouse sale actually DID offer a fair amount of original vintage, Polynesian pop era carvings, especially Tiki posts, and I do not deny anybody the right to enjoy their Poly-Asian Tikis if they like'em, to me they are just not it, simply because of the above reasons.

Mai Tai, sorry to stir up trouble! I wasn't claiming that these tikis came from the Trader Vic's warehouse sale or that these were even Trader Vic's tikis at all. I was simply making the observation that they looked like they came from the same Asian supplier, that's all. So, if I wasn't clear, my apologies! No heads exploding please! :D

On a (hopefully) related note, I recently found these two tikis for sale. After a little digging, I discovered they are new and were carved in the Philippines. And I don't think they're bad at all. Stylistically, they clearly do have historical roots. The shape of the head on the tongue tiki is like that of a root ball, although if it were mine, I would get rid of the flowery designs on the forehead and get someone to carve him a rootball-like hairdo.

That one on the left is actually based on the rootball Tiki at the Palm Springs Tropics Motel. (Or the "Caliente" Tropics, a name which I refuse to use because it is the only bad thing left of the new owners ill-conceived plan from the early 2000s to turn the whole complex into yet another generic Spanish revival place..a plan that was happily averted by them being given a copy of the Book of Tiki!) Yes, the swirls and the "Tiki" inscription are bad, otherwise it's passable.

The one on the right is cool in its simplicity, and based on an actual old Hawaiian carving. Which does point at the fact that there are exceptions to the rule.

And then there is the argument why one could not accept the Poly-Asian wave as yet another facet of the evolution of Tiki style. To me its simply a bastardization that muddles up the original aspects of Poly pop Tiki art: Ancient Polynesian style--Primitive art-- Modern art--Cartoon art. These are the 4 cultural origins of American Tiki style. Asian swirls, Buddhist forms and other naturalistic elements just don't fit in there. To me, the naturalism of that rootball version's tongue (as compared to the original) is already too much.

I love how they carved the word "Tiki" on top, just to make sure there is no question of what you are looking at.

Bosko

Crap - this is so hard. I can recognize a Bumatay or Barney West on one end of the tiki spectrum, and that alien football-head tiki on the other, but much else in between is a muddle. I guessed that the two tikis above were modern, but probably not for the right reasons. The one on the left looks wrong because of that stylized root ball - a traditional tiki wouldn't have it, and a Poly Pop tiki would have an actual root ball. But I thought the one on the right was new because it's a copy of an old Coco Joe's tiki. I always thought those flat eyes were representations of sun glasses - I've never seen a Hawaiian carving like that; I'll have to look for it.

On 2008-04-06 11:59, Koolau wrote:
I've never seen a Hawaiian carving like that; I'll have to look for it.

Here it is:

Buzzy Out!

And you are also right, Koolau! That Coco Joe's is probably what it's based on, and that Coco Joe's IS vintage Poly Pop...does anybody have it to post here?

Here's a copy of a menu cover that uses it:

These not so common Hawaiian Tikis were usually only utilized in Hawaii, because mainland artists did not come across them as easily.

Here is another "odd" ancient Hawaiian carving that has unusually big and flat (almost modern) eyes:

On 2008-04-06 13:47, bigbrotiki wrote:
And you are also right, Koolau! That Coco Joe's is probably what it's based on, and that Coco Joe's IS vintage Poly Pop...does anybody have it to post here?

Got some...

Buzzy Out!

Yaaayzzz, siree! Very nice! :)

On 2008-04-06 11:56, TIKIBOSKO wrote:
I love how they carved the word "Tiki" on top, just to make sure there is no question of what you are looking at.

Actually, it spells "Kapu Tiki", which is the name of the company. And here is their website. I looked through their site and whoever bought these two to sell in their store at least picked two of the better designs they offer because most of the others on the site are just wrong in my opinion. However, this one that they make:

is clearly based on the Kona Kai tiki seen in BOT (p. 142).

On 2008-04-06 11:59, Koolau wrote:
Crap - this is so hard. I can recognize a Bumatay or Barney West on one end of the tiki spectrum, and that alien football-head tiki on the other, but much else in between is a muddle.

Yes, it is all rather subjective, isn't it? But I do agree that there is some justification, as Sven pointed out, that some may belong under the banner of "tiki", while others (like the Balinese carvings that Vic's uses these days) maybe don't. Some will agrue that point, but that's what makes it fun! :)

I did recognize that smaller tiki when I first saw it as being a copy of an authentic Hawaiian tiki because I had previously taken this picture at the Hawaiiana Hotel in Honolulu:

Mahalo all - those eyes are the damnedest thing - they really look like sun glasses. Here I had always thought that Coco Joe's cool-ified a tiki by adding sunglasses, when in fact it was a faithful reproduction of the real thing.

Here's a better shot of the "sunglasses" one.

On 2008-04-06 14:41, Koolau wrote:
Mahalo all - those eyes are the damnedest thing - they really look like sun glasses. Here I had always thought that Coco Joe's cool-ified a tiki by adding sunglasses, when in fact it was a faithful reproduction of the real thing.

Well, some New Age-inspired scholars have argued that the "goggles"-type eyes of some Marquesan Tikis are proof that the Polynesian Islands were settled by UFO pilots. Yeah sure, alien UFO navigators wore WWII pilot goggles!

On 2008-04-06 15:14, bigbrotiki wrote:
Well, some New Age-inspired scholars have argued that the "goggles"-type eyes of some Marquesan Tikis are proof that the Polynesian Islands were settled by UFO pilots. Yeah sure, alien UFO navigators wore WWII pilot goggles!

Oh come on now. Everyone knows that WWII pilots really wore Marquesan UFO navigator goggles!
Aloha,
:tiki:

My 2 $

The one in the first picture looks an awful like the smaller one I purchased at the Trader Vic's warehouse sale...

PTD

[ Edited by: Psycho Tiki D 2008-04-07 06:02 ]

Those tikis are still for sale at the Good Better Best store in Alameda. Same $1,800 each price. Now they are listed on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380120416524

Asian Import.

I think it was well established by you, me, and everyone else in this post earlier that these were crappy asian knock-offs. I just bumped this thread because I thought it was "interesting", nay, humorous, that these tikis were still for sale OVER A YEAR AND A HALF LATER, at such an exorbitant price, in today's market, in the region that they're trying to sell them. Good luck, Good Better Best store!

I just detest those buggers, and I have my "Asian Tiki" rifle cocked and loaded and will take potshots at these suckers where ever they cross my path. Repeatedly. :D

One thing is funny, though. I have not heard much in terms of support from the American Tiki carving community in my quest. Am I wrong?

I agree Sven. I think there is a big difference in the tikis I carved for Trader vics LA that are outside and the asian ones inside. No?

Keep on questing Sven. I appreciate it.

Thank you, guys, any other carvers having any opinions on the this? I am just the theorist and advocate of the art form, not the practitioner.

Ok, since this thread has surfaced again... Are we sure that instead of WWII goggles, could these tikis have been carved in the 80s wearing Blu Blockers?

Just add a sombrero and you have this! LOL!

Or just gander at these face windows....

:lol:
I'm kind of glad these Balinese tikis muddle alot of people's idea of what tiki is or should be. It gives me a better chance of finding a classic Hedley, West, Bumatay, or Schmaltz...Although I never counted on it! :P
They should make the Neo carvedBalinese stamp "Made in Indo" on the bottom. :D

Alright I'll chime in. When I first started collecting I couldn't tell the difference. Now, with a more discerning eye, sometimes I can, sometimes I can't. How's that? Would it be true that most Balinese carvings are with hardwood? Very little palmwood?

Most definitely. That's one thing that makes them so attractive, to the buyer and wholesaler alike. These tropical hardwoods are already expensive as base material here in the States because they have to be imported. In Bali they are native, and part of the package of the carving. American carvers cannot compete price-wise when these carvings are shipped in container-size shipments, which brings down transport costs. And material-wise, that wood just looks so good...who cares about a few sculptural incongruities!

What's the scenario for the creation of these Poly-Asian carvings? Is each Balinese carver expressing their own Tiki creativity much as an American carver would? Or is it a sweatshop of carvers mass-producing these things based on an example or sketch being provided for them?

The latter, rather. There is a fine carving tradition in Bali, with generations of skilled carvers, which is based on their Hinduist and Buddhist beliefs, but with no connection to authentic Polynesian, or mid-century Polynesian pop traditions --you can see it in the rounded-off hands and features in the carvings. The whole thing started when Doug Nason had the first Poly Pop Tikis copied by a Philippine carver. But throughout the early 2000s, visitors to Bali saw no evidence in carving and tourist shops. Until in the mid-2000s, when I received reports of rows and rows of Tiki carvings in carving shops in Bali. It seems an invasive species had been introduced to a tropical paradise.

Those statues are sold. Dunno for how much, although the last time my wife looked at them [she doesn't necessarily approve of the tiki bar I am going to have built in our detached garage, but she loves shopping and always wants to find gifts that will draw me into her shopping life] GBB quoted her $2500 for the pair.

chiwito