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K

Let us mourn.

The Nashville Network renamed itself TNN. And this summer they are renaming themselves SPIKE TV....
With Shag artwork.

I'm sure you all remember the famous mid-nineties TIME Magazine coverstory:
"Everybody's Hip - And that's not Cool"

behold the end of cool:
http://www.thenewtnn.com/

T

He also recently did some stuff for Showtime. Oh well, I never was as cool as I think I am.

T
thejab posted on Fri, Jun 6, 2003 7:32 PM

I used to admire Shag for his success (after all he deserves it), but how low will he go for more riches?

M

Well I certianely see your point, that can't be good. But then as I look at my new print "Blue Miles" I can say without any question whatsoever, SHAG is cool. He really is. But that's just me.
Aloha

K

you can still like the art on your wall, but cool is a social, not an individual concept - it's the way you feel about that art on your wall when you have a party, not the way you feel about it when you're alone. Some artists have been able to reach mass fame, like Andy Warhol, and still remain edgy - by doing what he does everywhere else for Frat TV, Shag has lost his cool.
Personally, I like the style as much as I ever did, but socially, I'm not going to be dropping the "Shag" name in conversations, or pointing out what's on my wall at parties.

T

I'm a complete Shag fan, however when is enough enough? His prints have been ultra cool for a few years now however now every where you look you see Shag merchandise. Pins, stickers, photo albums, cards, lighters, etc. It just seems to be too much merchandising. I only buy Shag prints. It seems now that "everyone" is jumping on the Shag wagon, Shag is capitalizing on this. You notice that now, once a month, a new Shag print comes out? Come on. I love Shag as much as the next guy but I certainly can't afford to buy a new print every month along with all his other memorabilia. I like the old days when a Shag print was "affordable" enough to buy and not take half my mortgage payment to buy it.

That's just my 2 cents but I'm still a Shag fan! :wink:

T

One of my hobbies is the desk top study of social science. This thread is quite a study in the timid and insecure.

As far as Shag goes. I've never really felt one way or the other about him/his work. I guess it's OK for wall hanging. But no, I'm not going to shell out $150 for a $20 Shag decantor set. It's just not my thing is all.

But when I read the preceeding posts, it's like listening to a village centre conversation during Medieval times. "Shhhh, but I'm not sure if I believe in God!, I mean yes, God is great and God is good, but I'm not sure if God really exists. Shhhh!"

Jesus H. Christ (and not in a good way). If you don't like Shag - say it! Everyone seems to be so overly concerned that if they make a statement like that their tiki credentials will be called into question.

Personally, because that's all I have, I don't care for Witco, I don't give a flying reed about THE KON TIKI, I think exotica music pretty much blows, The fabled Ren Clark severed head mug is stupid, and the Tiki Room at D-land is lame!

There, I said it! Now what do you think of me?

B
Boob posted on Fri, Jun 6, 2003 9:53 PM

My nipples are hard from your post Bong!

S
Swanky posted on Fri, Jun 6, 2003 9:58 PM

I like Shag's stuff. Whether it defines cool? Is cool? I dunno. What about when Kenny Scharf did a swatch? I would not buy any of it. It's fun and kitschy. Regardless.

And to think... I was almost enticed to pay what is STILL WAY TOO DAMN MUCH for one of those Not Even Vintage Lookin' Decanter Sets in an email I recieved this evening! It's almost as if SHAG believes we'll pay just about anything because we're "Obsessed With Tiki!!!" I gotta tell ya'll... I was into Shag before Shag was into Tiki (of course, I was also in to country when country wasn't cool...) and I'm a bit put off by the fact that his work seems, nowadays, to be more influenced by the TREND (and, therefore, the MONEY) than it ever seemed to be before.
I think Swanky summed it up. Just 'cause it's cool and fun doesn't mean we need to own it, does it? I mean... I thought the AMC Pacer was a really cool car when it was introduced, in a funny sort of way. Did I sell my 1968 Corvette in order to get me one of 'em? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Nope! Like What You Buy! Buy What You Like! Pay No Attention to the Market Value! The Only Value You're Concerned With Is Your Own Tiki Lounge
As It Applys to YOU!

[ Edited by: Traitor Vic on 2003-06-06 22:14 ]

I read an interview with Shag once and he said that he got into this for the money. If that's true, he's accomplishing exactly what he set out to do. Anybody that holds him up to be some artist superhero or reads a bunch into his paintings, would probably make him laugh. I like his stuff, even though I won't pay a whole lot for his prints or decanters.

Now the real issue is, TNN goes and names a channel SPIKE?! That channel better not screw it up for me and give me a bad name by sucking.

Why is Bong so angry?

M
  • thejab wrote:
    I used to admire Shag for his success (after all he deserves it), but how low will he go for more riches?

I take it you've seen the Shag Depend Adult Incontinence Products.

Personally, I am passing on those, at least for a few years, hopefully. However, I do have my eye on the new Shag hot plate. Stylishly cool...yet imminently functional for the sophisticated bachelor recluse.

midnite

MB
Mrs. B posted on Sat, Jun 7, 2003 1:17 AM

All I can add to this is "F'in GO!"
What, so an artist has to be dead and others reap the "riches" of his work....give me a fuckin break. Like it's been said, if you dig Shag's work, buy it...if you don't, don't. But do not expect an artist in 2003 to sit back and not "reap" the market value of his work. I can see Andy looking down with an "underground" grin. "GO!"

(Some may hate me for this, but this is the antique dealer talking)...I have always thought of Shag stuff as the Beanie Babies of the tiki world, personally, -but- (some may hate me for this, but this is the Republican talking) I can't knock anybody's right to make a living and certainly not an American sucess story like Shag. More power to the guy. He has marketable talent for his keep and financial independence and comfort to show for it. Isn't that what we all want? To hell with political correctness....show me the money everytime.

I guess I must agree with the Kahuna to an degree. Dave seems a pretty good judge of "cool stuff" and certainly has the Tiki Lounge to back it up. Some folks are in to Tiki from a Purely Polynesian point of view. Some are interested in it because it's Retro. Some, like myself, are a bit more accepting of the more modern accoutrements as we are just caught up in it because it's fun and funny and the drinks taste really good. None of Us Owns Tiki! We Didn't Invent Tiki! Tiki Lives. Tiki Evolves. Tiki Changes. Some changes we appreciate. Some we tolerate. Some we just plain hate. Some of us might not like the fact that Jimmy Buffet is "compromising" Tiki but we are powerless to stop it from happening. I'm not sure that what Walt Disney did with it was that much better.

I always thought Shag's Tiki stuff is kinda goofy lookin' and way overpriced, but it inspired me to search for more Tiki on the internet, which resulted in my discovering Tiki Central. Didn't cost me a damn cent! Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Keep in mind, too, that in 20 years Shag mugs will be considered Vintage Tiki Mugs! Scary, eh?

From what I understand, Shag started his carrer as a freeelance illustrator. People got into the style of illustration he brought back, and he started selling originals. It took off like crazy! That's the goal for a freelance artist! Remember this is his job, this is what he does for work. Selling his stuff to Showtime or Spike is a good gig! If you got offered more money at your job would you turn it down because you didn't want to sell out?
I don't think he ever claimed to be some artist for the people. He's a good artist, who is working hard, and making money at it. Good for him!! And remember, very important, if you don't like something, You DON'T have to buy it! It's simple.

If you're looking for an idol who never sold out, check out Ian McKaye ( minor threat, Fugazi, etc.) He's a very rare exception, but still rich.

"It's not what they're selling, it's what you're buying"

T

Since when does Shag owe it to people to "stay cool"? As was said previously, he is in illustrator. He gets paid to do commercial art. The more jobs, the more money. He ain't Mother Theresa... who would turn down more money to do something you love to do? Any of you here?

I like my shag book, I buy shag wrapping paper for gifts, but I would never fork over the big bucks for prints or mugs. To me, he's kind of like Hello Kitty. It's fun to buy little trinkets here and there, but I certainly don't need to buy every Hello Kitty thing that hits the market*. I am not sure why some people feel they have to have everything the man ever put his stamp on... and then get upset about the prices, or the amount of Shag-ified goods (while still buying said goods at said prices). I do not understand this phenomenon.

*OK, maybe the Hello Kitty vibrator. But that's it.

M
Mambo posted on Sat, Jun 7, 2003 7:40 AM

F Shag....
all hail Rain!

(by the way Rain, when are we gonna see more)
Yea Mon.

Dont Hate..........Appreciate. SHAG is a very smart businessman, we would all probably do the same if we were given the opportunity. More power to him.

A shag designed tiki vibrator now there is a gift to get the wife for christmas.

About 4 years ago I walked into La Luz Gallery in LA and was mesmerized by what I saw. Having never been into art before, my eyes started to open to art appreciation because of Shag. Yes i'm probably an art simpleton, but at that point I started a journey of discovery leading to Ryden, Bosko, Von Dutch, Leeteg, Sven Kirsten, Martin Denny, Tiki Bars, tiki Central etc etc so I can thank Shag for introducing me to a completely different world. Sure he has cashed in on his popularity, but he owes us nothing. I sold some of his early prints for 7 times what I paid, then I bought Marvel stock with that and now i'm richer also. THANK YOU SHAG!!

K

Fact: No one is saying that Shag isn't a commercial artist and that making money however he can shouldn't be his goal.

Fact: Shag used to be cool. Now he is Hello Kitty, and the work for SPIKE TV demonstrates that more than anything yet. He was not Hello Kitty before.

Fact: Hello Kitty is not cool.

Fact: I miss the time when Shag was cool, and I know you do too.

I brought the Shag Hedonist catalogue to work today and showed it to one of the girls I work with. She is 23 and never heard of him. She said "HEY! Thats COOL!

K

But I don't think she's cool for being into it. That's what cool is. It's a social thing, not an individual thing.

FYI, I am developing a website on this topic, http://www.shagsucks.com, and will be grateful for your input.

:wink: j/k


Take a Reality Trip

[ Edited by: kahukini on 2003-06-07 15:43 ]

KK

Remember The Fonz? Man, was he cool. There certainly is a lot of naivete among trendy art fans it seems.

K

Everyone who "disagrees" with me is saying something I believe too, they're apparently disagreeing with me only on the semantics of "cool".
The concept which cannot be refuted is that that Shag is now mass market Trendy and used to be a cocktail culture gem that we used to be able to introduce people to by taking the Hedonist catalogue to work and showing it around. Now that art adorns Frat TV and kid's cereal boxes, and most of us will not be taking his catalogues to work or anyplace.

To paraphrase Duke Ellington, if it looks good, it is good.
Mass market=less $$$
If I can eventually walk into a Prints Plus and buy a Shag print for $20-$40, and I like it, who gives a crap what anyone else thinks? I wouldn't buy it for anyone but me to enjoy.

K

I doubt the favorite items in your tiki bar were purchased at the mall.

M

*Remember The Fonz? Man, was he cool. There certainly is a lot of naivete among trendy art fans it seems.
*

Yes, and remember when Arthur strapped on the water skis and jumped that shark? The Fonz was cool until he put on the leather jacket and started speaking.

midnite, Fonzie look-a-like winner, 3rd grade, 1974.

edit: Whoa, what happened there? Whacky post, whacky.

[ Edited by: midnite_tiki on 2003-06-07 19:40 ]

E

On 2003-06-06 21:21, Tiki_Bong wrote the following heresies:
Personally, because that's all I have, I don't care for Witco, I don't give a flying reed about THE KON TIKI, I think exotica music pretty much blows, The fabled Ren Clark severed head mug is stupid, and the Tiki Room at D-land is lame!

There, I said it! Now what do you think of me?

Gack...the Ren Clark mug? Stupid? Just kiddin', I know it appeals to the part of my brain that is still a skinny nerdy 10-year old that built hot-rod models and drew pics of Good Guys shooting Nazis. And Thor Heyedahl is only a step above Erich von Daniken for me anthropology-wise... "those dumb Polynesians couldn't have made their own monumental sculpture, had to be the Incas". Kinda gets my goat.

You go, Bong! There is no Canon Of Tiki, true enuff!

aloha,
emspace.

Cool...What is Cool???

Did Vic think that Trader's was cool or was it his idea to exploit an aesthetic he loved and bring it to the people who could afford to get it + plus enligheten the heathens?

Tiki/lounge should never be judged as high art. And, mostly "cool" is not something folks should conciously strive for.

On 2003-06-07 17:59, kahukini wrote:
I doubt the favorite items in your tiki bar were purchased at the mall.

I don't think you got my point: if you like something, it doesn't matter where it came from, or the circumstances surrounding its creation or distribution.

K

It matters in its coolness, or lackthereof, but need not matter in one's enjoyment of it. I'm a fan of Buffy, which was a "cool" tv show, but I'm also a huge fan of Nash Bridges, which was and is a "lame" or "corny" show.

T

My buddy pulled Shag's 3 Wahines print out of somebody's trash and now it is framed and on my wall.
Now that is "COOL"
And yes the coolest things in my bar were free or trash find or garage sale.
The only way to shop.
I really want to see a Shag print on Sponge Bob's wall.

Free things are not always cool and cheap people are never cool!

I remember when I was cool....

T

What's wrong with being mass market? Why aren't 'frat boys' allowed to look at Shag art? Why does Shag suck for making lots of stuff for people to enjoy, not just some small self proclaimed hipster subculture?

Maybe this feeling you have that 'Shag Sucks' has more to do with you, and not with Shag. Now you can't pretend to be cooler than everyone else for liking Shag stuff, cause everyone else likes Shag too!

PS. Don't be dissing my homegirl Hello Kitty.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You go tikifish!

K

Baxdog: And yes the coolest things in my bar were free or trash find or garage sale.

Um, I said I'll bet the favorite things in your bar didn't come from the MALL. Some of the best stuff in my bar I also painstakingly found at garage sales, thrift stores, flea markets, antique shops, and yes I've also found a couple of things that were thrown out.

tikifish: What's wrong with being mass market? Why aren't 'frat boys' allowed to look at Shag art? Why does Shag suck for making lots of stuff for people to enjoy, not just some small self proclaimed hipster subculture?
Maybe this feeling you have that 'Shag Sucks' has more to do with you, and not with Shag. Now you can't pretend to be cooler than everyone else for liking Shag stuff, cause everyone else likes Shag too!
PS. Don't be dissing my homegirl Hello Kitty.

First off, the only thing wrong with being mass market it that it's not cool. This is not a difficult concept tikifish. "Cool" and "i like it" are 2 DIFFERENT THINGS. Frat boys are allowed to like Shag as much as they like each other's dicks, I don't care, but as far as that bodes for something being sophisticated and "cool," well that pretty much kills it for the cocktail culture. I never said Shag sucks, I said he's lost his cool, which is irrefutable, and that's too bad. I wish he could have found a way to reach mass recognition and stay cool, but apparently he was not able to.
I never said "Shag Sucks," in fact I was making a joke about making such a website, because so many people who "disagree" with me seem to be thinking I'm saying "Shag sucks." You have hit the essence of cool - it has to do with "in" and "out" ideas, concepts, scences, people - from now on we can like Shag art, but we can no longer appreciate it something special whose appreciation takes a certain understanding and affinity for the cocktail culture past and pressent. That great era of Shag cool is over, now the style is as done, and to be known among your metropolitin friends as a continuing avid collector of Shag art would be just as cool as a 13 year old's collection of everything Hello Kitty. It's too bad, cause I dig Shag.

T

I couldn't of said it better kahukini!

K

Actually, I think what strikes me most about the end of the "shag era" is that Tiki itself is not cool (we are all engaged in something outsiders look on as akin to Trekkiism)... and while we don't care that it's not cool, Shag was a refreshing contribution, new and current and respected by all sorts of interesting people that prefer the expense and emptiness and lines of mod to the cheapness and clutter of tiki.

Dear Kahukini,

Exactly who died and made you the "cool" police? You refer to Shag like he's as commonplace as McDonald's. Probably 98% of Americans still haven't heard of him, and probably never will. The only thing irrefutable is your adolescent obsession with what is considered cool. Maybe your still in high school, which would explain your views.

H

Kahukini, where are you getting your definition of "cool"? Not intending this to sound like an attack, it's a sincere question. My quick check of dictionary.com doesn't present any definitions consistent with your assertion that cool is defined by a popular opinion and not by personal opinion. I have access to OED at work, so I can check there tomorrow.

Shag is still cool. Now if he started to do wildlife paint by numbers......

Shag is a branch of our common Tiki tree. Love him for his dedication to the hobby even if he is making a living doing it (I guess that makes it not a hobby). It's not like he is Shag-Mart or Shagbucks or something.

K

Humuhumu, the word doesn't matter, this isn't a matter of semantics, it is a matter of a concept which I have articulated. No one has disagreed with that concept.

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