Chisel Confusion and Questions

Question to the carving folk.

All of the carved pieces I have posted on TC have been done with an inexpensive set of flat chisels. For most of the cuts the flat chisel works fine. There have been situations where I have needed to make curved or v cuts and have made do with what I have.

I would like to invest a modest sum in a set of gouges but have no idea where to start.

I have seen straight gouges of varying size and some with a crescent shaped blade. What would the scoop or crescent shaped gouges be used for or should I stick with the straight gouges.

I have seen some reasonably priced flat chisels on the web and locally but gouges all seem to be fairly expensive ($20 each and up) and always sold individually.

Are gouges different than lathe tools? Some of the lathe tools I have seen look just like a gouge?

Thanks

Monkeyman

[ Edited by: Monkeyman on 2003-07-30 18:18 ]

Good questions Monkeyman. I recieved a catalog from Lee Valley the other day and the amount of choices for chisels and carving tools has me more than slightly overwhelmed. Not to mention all the other things needed as well. Mallets, sharpening stones etc. A description of the basic tools would be a lot of help to the carvin' newbies.
Chongolio

You should purchase a GOOD (quality very important)3/8 60 degree straight parting tool, a 1/2" #11 bent gouge, a 1" #7 bent gouge, and a set of small palm tools. The scoops work when cleaning out deep relief, but you won't use them often. The three above and the palm tools will give you tons of capability.

Thanks BK. Your input is totally appreciated!

Chongolio

Thanks BK. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Would these sized chisels you mention be appropriate for small work or is that the size you would use to carve a pole?

Monkeyman

D, look on sears.com for the robert sorby set of carving tools. About $130+.

So what can I expect to spend on a good draw knife?

[ Edited by: pele on 2003-07-30 18:40 ]

[ Edited by: Monkeyman on 2003-07-30 18:19 ]

[ Edited by: pele on 2003-07-30 18:41 ]

On the first point, the reason for buying the medium to large sized parting tool and gouge (and a steeper pitched gouge at that) is that you can use those two to cut to any depth you want, shallow or deep. If they are too small or too large they don't give you as much flexibility on your cuts. Chiki is right, a good set of Sorby or Henry Taylor tools will make your life a hell of a lot easier. Both my draw knives are oldies, but I'd bet you could order a nice new one for about 30 bucks.

I think a FLEXCUT draw knife would be good for palmwood. The deal is it will flex(bend). I use a modified HomeDepot machete, $10.00 and a little welding.

I find drawknives at the flea markets for between $12 -$18... sometimes a little sharpening is in order... cheaper than I've seen them in the woodworking store...

Hey all, here are some prices on the chisels that BK recomended. This is out of the Lee Valley Catalog and are for the Henry Taylor brand

3/8 60 degree straight parting tool = $31.00

1/2" #11 bent gouge = $27.00

1" #7 bent gouge = $29.50

set of small palm tools (6 piece, Lee
Valley Brand) = $48.50

Draw knifes (various brands) = raged from $26.00-$40.00
So for around 180.00 bucks you can get set up with the BK reccomended tools which is still comparable to the kits you can buy that come with tools that you may not need. OF course sharpening stones and mallets are gonna add to that price.
I am still waiting for another catalog for a price comparison. I hope sombody out there finds this info useful.
And now for another question, How difficult is it to sharpen your own tools?
If you screw up are you going to thrash your tools?

Chongolio

-- I believe that our Heavenly Father invented the monkey because he was disappointed in man."
... Mark Twain

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-07-31 11:09 ]

Sharpening is a good question. I think I have figured out how to properely sharpen a flat chisel but how do you sharpen a gouge?

What was the name of that second Clint Eastwood movie with the monkey?

Any Which Way You Can :wink:

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer on 2003-08-01 00:08 ]

Hey,

Any chance someone could post photos of these tools so I'd know what I'm looking for at garage sales? It'd be much appreciated. Thanks!

Monkeyman... for sharpening gouges...

Cone Gouge Slipstones
The tapering concave and convex surfaces of these stones simplify the sharpening of gouges. The convex surface deburrs the inside edge and the concave surface the outside edge. Tapering shape provides proper stone width for every tool. Stones measure approximately 6" long. Large ends are 2" wide x 1" thick tapering to 1/2" wide. Oilstones are 1/2" thick and waterstones are 5/16" thick on small end.

Oil Stone Cone Gouge Set includes medium and fine Crystolon (silicon carbide abrasives) and fine India (aluminum oxide abrasives) stones.

Water Stone Cone Gouge Set includes man made, fast cutting aluminum oxide stones for sharpening and honing.

Other tools:
Drawknife

Flexcut tools

V-Part

Bent Gouge

The Henry Taylor set I have...

[ Edited by: Lake Surfer on 2003-08-01 00:19 ]

Spy-tiki, get yurself one of the free catalogs from Lee Valley.com. They are a great reference source.
BK, is that how you sharpen your gouges "Every which way you can?" :P

Clint: "He's not a baboon Ma, He's an Orangutan. He has 12 ribs"
Ma: 12 ribs my ass! That god damn baboon ate all my Oreo cookies"
Love those movie, even though it has the typical biker stereotype that Eastwood exploits in a lot of his films.
Chongolio

-- I believe that our Heavenly Father invented the monkey because he was disappointed in man."
... Mark Twain

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-08-01 10:49 ]

I laid down some coin for a nice set of gouges last weekend....

Amazing what a difference it makes to have good tools. I always have known that good tools are expensive for a reason but you never realize how much it helps until you try the old crap first and then try your shiny new tools.

Clean cuts, minimal effort. Now I just need to learn how to properly sharpen them.

I am currently working on projects for Gecko, Dr. Z, Midnite Tiki, Tikitony, and Tikifish. I will post pics as I complete them.

Monkeyman

hey Lakersufer, i wanted to know where you got this set of chisels and how they were. i was think of getting a higher quality chisel set.

Hey BK you said you need a good palm set would you consider Lee Valley's brand a good quality set or is there another brand that you think is better.

thanks

Well I finally clicked submit and put my chisel order into Lee Valley. They have stated in their catalog that the individual chisels require a final sharpening and final honing. Any suggestions on where to take them for this. This is something I would like to learn to do so I was thinking about picking up some cheap chisels to practice on. I dont want to screw around with the Henry Taylors.
Octane, I ordered the Henry Taylor basic palm set. The price wasn't bad.
Chongolio

-- I believe that our Heavenly Father invented the monkey because he was disappointed in man."
... Mark Twain

[ Edited by: Chongolio on 2003-08-12 23:10 ]

Octane... got it at my local Woodcraft store... you can find them on the web at http://www.woodcraft.com

The Henry Taylor tools require honing before using... right now my local store is offering a free honing for every Henry Taylor... and now that the employees know me I can sneak in a free sharpening now and then if I buy something...

I found this article on sharpening and found it very interesting and helpful. It definately took some of the mystique out of the sharpening mystery.

http://carverscompanion.com/Ezine/HelpFiles/SharpeningMessages.html

Also, Heavy props to a cat named Roberto doing customer service over at Lee Valley. The guy is totally helpful and knowledgable. He took the time to get me going in the right direction and assured me it just takes a little practice and experimenting with different techniques and sharpening materials.
I wish I had talked to him before I took my new tools to a "tool Sharpener" who put them against a belt sander for a few seconds and charged me $10.00.

Chongolio the still not so sharp

Here is a good post about chisels and gouges for you new carvers

On behalf of the rookies I say thanks to everyone that has helped us out. I bought a cheap set of chisels and just started banging away. A little insight for all of you has helped alot.

I'm bumping this ol' thread up because I found it helpful and figured others would, too.

I just bought a couple Henry Taylor gouges at Woodcrafter (30% off all Henry Taylors while supplies last - at least at MY Woodcrafter that's the case). I just bought two that I thought would be most helpful, knowing nothing more about them. Somebody in the store mentioned a book that detailed all the various styles of carving chisels and that the numbers (#4, etc) were standardized and not brand-specific. I didn't catch the name but figured I could find similar info online. So far, no luck.

Anybody know what they were talking about? I'd love to see a reference to chisel profiles and what they're meant for.

Thanks!

I think you carvers looking for gouges should spend some time with a carver who uses a lot of various sized gouges. You can see the tools at work, feel them at work and maybe use them at work. We need a carving seminar or something like that. Sharpening chisels, gouges, v-liners, fluteronis, veiners and fish tail gouges, can be frustrating. I have copy of a sharpening dvd I got from the local carving club that is excellent. I started passing a few around. if anyone knows where they are, perhaps they could move around some more. ..

For basic carving you will only need a handfull of tools, Hell, some of the 3rd world carvers have only 1 to3 carving tools, A Knife, a chisel and a gouge. and they are doing museum class work.

Turning tools are Not good for carving and carving tools are Not great for turning. .

You will spend a lot of money on gouges you will rarely use and thats a fact. If you buy sets, you will end up with More tools you never use. those are facts.

So you can start buying a bunch of tools you like and after a year sell all the ones you never used. Or do what you are doing9Research) and purchase a tool here and another there and just get one when you think you need it. We can give you ideas for tools to buy based on your carving style and size but you have to need it before you will use it

MonkeyMan, your carving wll require you 2 different sizes of tools since I see your art covers large and small.
Don't rush in. you have been carving awhile and you have tools thet work. just research and pick up tols as you find them.
I hope this helps. Just learn to ask pointed questions about specific carving delemmas and what tools to solve it.

Thats enuf for now , more later.

Cool thread. Ive got a set of 4 flat chisels, but havent attacked any wood yet. My mates got some good wood for me though. Cant wait to have a crack. Probaly not until the new year, but Ill post plenty of pics.

Thanks for all the tips peoples! :)

One thing I forgot to say was something MonkeyMan already found out. A nice set of chisels and gouges will Enhance your carving experience More than you can believe. Your carvings will be much the better for it.
Here is another thread on sharpening:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=8722&forum=7&hilite=sharpening%20chisels

[ Edited by: Benzart 2005-09-11 06:48 ]

I found this on Woodcraft's website

Sharpening Carving Chisels
By: Rick and Ellen Bütz
From: Woodcraft Website

The carver’s chisel is beveled on both sides, unlike the chisel that cabinetmakers and carpenters use, which is flat on one side and ground at a 25-degree angle on the other. Cabinetmaker’s chisels are designed for paring the straight, flat edges of woodworking joints. Because of the shape of the cutting angle, you cannot carve very well with them. They tend to dig in or skip out of the wood, depending on which side you are using.

Carving chisels are beveled on both sides at a 20-degree angle. This allows you to carve at a more efficient angle and remove chips cleanly. These flat chisels, often designated as sweep no. 1, are used to set in straight lines on relief carvings or to smooth the surface of a rounded shape, such as the top edge of the wing on an American eagle carving.

Carving chisels’ cutting edges can be ground perpendicular to the shaft of the blade or at an angle. The angled gouges, called skew chisels, are useful for getting into corners and other narrow spaces.

A carver’s chisel is sharpened almost the same way as a knife. Put a few drops of oil on a sharpening stone for lubrication. Hold the chisel at a 20-degree angle to the stone, and slide the cutting edge up and down along the length of the stone. Work both sides of the blade evenly until a burr edge forms along the cutting edge.

Test for the burr by very lightly dragging your finger away from the cutting edge. If you can feel a slight roughness, the blade is ready for the next step. You can remove the burr edge with just a strop the same way you did with the knife, or you can use a slip stone to hone away some of the burr before the final polishing on the strop.

Hold a square ceramic slip stone at a 45-degree angle to the blade, and stroke it lightly along the cutting edge. Do this on both sides of the blade.

Then remove any remaining bits of burr edge and polish the tool with a leather strop. Draw the blade across the strop away from the cutting edge the same way you did with the knife. Work first one side of the blade and then the other until the whole burr is removed.

Just rest the cutting edge of the blade very lightly on your fingernail. If the blade skids across your nail, it needs more work. If it catches slightly or feels sticky, the blade is ready to use.

Skew chisels are sharpened the same way as straight ones, except that you hold the tool at an angle to the side of the sharpening stone so that the cutting edge is perpendicular to the length of the stone. Hold it in the same position when you strop.

Does anyone know anything about these? I bought one from the worst eBay seller I've encountered. It arrived 25 days later with NO BITS!!!!
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET CHISELS FOR THIS??!!
HELP
Wes
Sorry for the whining
PICTURE BELOW

<

<
The world is good-natured to people who are good natured.

• William Thackeray

[ Edited by: Moondance 2005-11-02 17:32 ]

I just chipped the end off of BRAND NEW $32 V-parting Henry Taylor chisel (because of an old nail buried deep within a palm log).
Watch out! And see if you can get a warantee with the little buggers.

This is the piece of crap I was referring to.

Does anyone know where to get chisels for this??
wesley

<

<
The world is good-natured to people who are good natured.

• William Thackeray

[ Edited by: Moondance 2005-11-02 17:36 ]

Most of the Flexcut bits should work great. Several tool suppliers have them

Ben-
If I post a close up of the bit could you tell if it will work??
The flexcut chisels I found were around 100 for 8 chisels.
wes

hellotiki -
grind the chisel beyond "crack" and re-sharpen. good as new

Ben-
If I post a close up of the bit could you tell if it will work??
The flexcut chisels I found were around 100 for 8 chisels.
wes

Hi carver's, I'm wanting to purchase some other chisels and I found this set of 12 pcs made out of vanadium steel with wood handles for under $40.00...
These are the chisels it comes with
#7 SWEEP 1/4" GOUGE

#7 SWEEP 3/8" GOUGE

#7 SWEEP 5/8" GOUGE

#5 SWEEP 1" GOUGE

#7 SWEEP BENT 3/4" FISHTAIL GOUGE

#7 SWEEP 1/2" BENT GOUGE

5/16" STRAIGHT

9/16" STRAIGHT

3/4" BENT STRAIGHT

9/16" SKEW

#13 SWEEP V-PARTING

#14 SWEEP V-PARTING

Made By Smith & Wesson

and even a wood box... :wink:

What do you think, Is is a waste of money? I was looking to spend under $75 or so for a set..
Thanks for the help..

[ Edited by: Beachbumz 2010-01-09 11:57 ]

Hey Beachbumz, actually this looks like an upgraded cheap china set you can buy all over the net for about the same price. Never forget, "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR" and it applies here. The Chinese have been working wood long before steel tools were invented and like the Japanese they have been making Superior carving tools for a long time and I Promise you that they know the difference between the inferior tools and the crap that they sell us on eBay.

If you are gonna carve a tiki or 2 and never use the tools again you can use these and maybe get by. You will not be able to get them to hold an edge as the steel is way inferior.
My advice is to PASS on these and get some Henry Taylors or Flexcuts of Pheils , anything but these. These "Professional Sets" are very tempting to the new carver but don't take the bait!

Thanks Benz, after reading many reviews I'm going to save up for something better.. They just looked so tempting.. but the reason I wanting to upgrade is to get something that stays sharp..

Mahalo's again..

Hi Beachbumz,
Benzart is totally right about those chisels... forget them.
For me, you'll need

3 chisels: small, middle and big size,
1 "V-parting" gouge,
2 almost flat gouges a small and a bigger one.

I started this way and when I need some more, I buy one by one.
I prefer the Pfeils that are almost unbreakable and stay sharp longer than others but that's only my choice !

http://www.pfeiltools.ch/cgi-bin/flexi060614?WEB=SQU0-NRHb0kAAO9MMoMAAACk&Q=&S=3:1:::::::1::&P=&MT=main2

Good luck,

Benjamin.

benella - Mahalo's again for the info on the Pfeil tools, I'm definatly going that route and getting the better chisels... I plan on carving as much as possible once i get some more free time... oh and dry logs :wink:

Aloha

beachbumz, i bought my really good, older set on ebay. keep an eye out there. older tools are often better quality despite their age. a little cleaning, sharpening and polishing will restore them. things were often made better in the past. well, at least tools were. i love harbour freight, but there's a limit to what those tools are capable of, despite the artist.

hey monkeyman

Im still a newbie but for what its worth i bought some crappy ass tools in the beginning and waisted my money......Im with PDrake, I like old, antique tools and i ended up buying vintage chisels and gouges on ebay one at a time.....might have paid more for some and got good deals on others. in the end i got an awsome collection of some of the best made tools from over 80 years ago or even older. I might have spent the same on a new, more expensive set but its also nice having some history attached to your tools too.......the metal was better and thicker and will outlast my grand kids. i sold my new junk at ebay to someone else.......

by the way. watch for antique chisels coming out of England. the best stuff i got i bought from there.

well thats my two scents for what its worth (if any)..........good luck

Ps. I just listen to whatever Benzart says......he is the man!!!!!!

Creative Chimp

[ Edited by: Creative Chimp 2010-01-12 10:08 ]

[ Edited by: Creative Chimp 2010-01-12 10:14 ]

can anyone give advice on the best way to refurb this chisel?

thanks

On 2010-01-12 19:11, pdrake wrote:
can anyone give advice on the best way to refurb this chisel?

With a Tormek

Send it to me and I'll fix it up for ya.

Check your PM