The Root of Jimmy Buffet Bashing - Beyond Tiki

RG Rev. Griz Member Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake Joined: Jun 22, 2006 Posts: 75	RG Rev. Griz Posted posted on Fri, Aug 4, 2006 1:10 PM Sorry for the long quote section, I'm to lazy to edit it down :) This attitude makes me uncomfortable. I came here with a parrothead background after realizing that there's more to tiki than the "tropical mishmash" someone else mentioned. I have learned a lot here, and I have learned something about what tiki is and isn't. What you wrote, Dawn, comes across to me as being the kind of attitude that will discourage people from coming here and learning so that they DON'T commit the sin of mixing parrothead and tiki. (And really, why that's such a big deal, I don't know. We are very much in danger of over-defining our cliques here like junior high students.) Furthermore, you talk about real tiki. One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons. Wait, you say, I'm talking about the post WWII polynesian pop craze. Okay, well, there are several versions of that. Which is right and which is wrong? Is it only right if the recently carved tiki is a copy of a "real" historic tiki? Is it only right if the tiki mug is a vintage mug from an accepted "real" tiki place? Those two definitions rule out most of the artwork done by the people who post here. What is "real" tiki, someone explain this to me? Because if you don't, I live in fear of letting my Buffett roots influence a post and getting slapped down by those who have taken it upon themselves to define what tiki is for me. This web site has a huge potential to educate people in the roots of the generic tropical themes that are so popular these days. If they come here and see people posting basically "you're all wrong but I'm not going to explain why" then those folks will go away and keep doing what you don't want them to. That, of course, is the desire of snobs, to set themselves apart from the unwashed masses through the percieved superiority of secret knowledge, which is secret because it usually doesn't stand up to inspection. The folks here are not snobs, the folks here are much better than that. Let's embrace the mission to educate and convert all those potential "real" tiki fanatics. On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote: On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote: Look we all need to get along. Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it? :lol: While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki. I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve? I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet? Like, saaaay... Buffetworld ** I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.* Lucky for you you can... Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear. You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford) I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture. These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture? ** Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me. :wink: No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin... [ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]

Sorry for the long quote section, I'm to lazy to edit it down :) This attitude makes me uncomfortable. I came here with a parrothead background after realizing that there's more to tiki than the "tropical mishmash" someone else mentioned. I have learned a lot here, and I have learned something about what tiki is and isn't. What you wrote, Dawn, comes across to me as being the kind of attitude that will discourage people from coming here and learning so that they DON'T commit the sin of mixing parrothead and tiki. (And really, why that's such a big deal, I don't know. We are very much in danger of over-defining our cliques here like junior high students.)

Furthermore, you talk about real tiki. One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons.

Wait, you say, I'm talking about the post WWII polynesian pop craze. Okay, well, there are several versions of that. Which is right and which is wrong? Is it only right if the recently carved tiki is a copy of a "real" historic tiki? Is it only right if the tiki mug is a vintage mug from an accepted "real" tiki place? Those two definitions rule out most of the artwork done by the people who post here.

What is "real" tiki, someone explain this to me? Because if you don't, I live in fear of letting my Buffett roots influence a post and getting slapped down by those who have taken it upon themselves to define what tiki is for me.

This web site has a huge potential to educate people in the roots of the generic tropical themes that are so popular these days. If they come here and see people posting basically "you're all wrong but I'm not going to explain why" then those folks will go away and keep doing what you don't want them to. That, of course, is the desire of snobs, to set themselves apart from the unwashed masses through the percieved superiority of secret knowledge, which is secret because it usually doesn't stand up to inspection. The folks here are not snobs, the folks here are much better than that. Let's embrace the mission to educate and convert all those potential "real" tiki fanatics.

On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote:

On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote:
Look we all need to get along.
Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it? :lol:

While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.

**I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve?

I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet?
Like, saaaay... Buffetworld**

**

I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.*

Lucky for you you can...**

Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.

**You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself
Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford)
I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture? **

*Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me. :wink:
*

No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin...

[ Edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]

Post #246824 by Rev. Griz on Fri, Aug 4, 2006 1:10 PM